The myth of Joe Hart

EdenHazard

He's just not very good is he? He seems to make mistakes every time you hear of a goal going in against him. He made at least 4 mistakes tonight, of which 2 resulted in goals.

He obviously has some sort of keeping ability, and I've seen him play very well, but I think top keepers are epitomized by their lack of mistakes. All keepers at that level are great shot stoppers, but Hart seems to cause confusion at all times, a reason City got rid of Given.

Insect Overlord

EdenHazard wrote: »

He's just not very good is he? He seems to make mistakes every time you hear of a goal going in against him. He made at least 4 mistakes tonight, of which 2 resulted in goals.

LOL. He plays for the defending Premier League champions. Has conceded less goals than any other 'keeper in the league too. I reckon he's handy enough.

Fishooks12

Insect Overlord wrote: »

LOL. He plays for the defending Premier League champions. Has conceded less goals than any other 'keeper in the league too. I reckon he's handy enough.

He does have a handy enough defense in front of him infairness

He's good but not the second coming of christ as many English media commentators would have you believe

Kess73

EdenHazard wrote: »

He's just not very good is he? He seems to make mistakes every time you hear of a goal going in against him. He made at least 4 mistakes tonight, of which 2 resulted in goals.

Behave.He may not be the world class keeper that some make him out to be, but he is still a very good keeper with years to improve further.

Knex*

Close this ****. Jesus wept.

Where was his, "Is Joe Hart the real deal" thread after he kept City in the game vs Dortmund? :rolleyes:

ASOT

Can we leave this thread until after the draft please.

hefferboi

In the top 3 shot stoppers in the world imo. Good in the air and good distribution. No myth.

Liam O

Insect Overlord wrote: »

LOL. He plays for the defending Premier League champions. Has conceded less goals than any other 'keeper in the league too. I reckon he's handy enough.

Doesn't stop him being a hugely overrated keeper. He's made a whole load of costly mistakes already this season. He's very good but is not and I have my doubts he will be the player England and the media want him to be.

Insect Overlord

EdenHazard wrote: »

He obviously has some sort of keeping ability, and I've seen him play very well, but I think top keepers are epitomized by their lack of mistakes. All keepers at that level are great shot stoppers, but Hart seems to cause confusion at all times, a reason City got rid of Given.

He's better in goals than you are at football analysis.

EdenHazard

Because you always see keepers perform miracles in games like that! Its the reason why so many relegation level keepers are always held up in such regard because they are constantly making saves. Shot stopping is the most important attribute of a keeper but all keepers at that level are quality shot stoppers. Hart's performance against Dortmund could be seen by any number of keepers every weekend.

5starpool

Lauded too much previously, will be castigated too much now. Never a balanced opinion around when you want one, over reaction is the go to spot it seems.

Kess73

Insect Overlord wrote: »

He's better in goals than you are at football analysis wearing fedoras around Limerick.

Fixed that for ya.

SantryRed

World Class shot stopper.
Probable world class distribution.

However, his general command of his box and area is what lets him down at times. He's not in the top tier of goalkeepers in the world but he's young and could easily get there.

Insect Overlord

Kess73 wrote: »

Fixed that for ya.

Good thing I'm a handy goalkeeper myself so! :P

Xavi6

Surprised one of these took so long.

You're right OP, he's terrible. Would be deeeeecent craic on a night out though.

ben.schlomo

Hes over hyped as is typical with the Sky style of media, hes a great shot stopper, but is prone to a clanger and as was said he really doesnt command his box. Many years to learn though so might be a bit soon for saying hes not that good.

Blatter

SantryRed wrote: »

World Class shot stopper.
Probable world class distribution.

However, his general command of his box and area is what lets him down at times. He's not in the top tier of goalkeepers in the world but he's young and could easily get there.

Disagree. If the likes of Valdes and de Gea set the standard for distribution, I think Hart is some way off.

Mr.Nice Guy

He was always going to be pushed to the moon by the English media who have been craving a decent keeper ever since Seaman retired. He shouldn't be compared with Casillas the way some English pundits choose to regard him, but he is nevertheless very, very good and could wind up being amongst the best of the best.

I do agree he is prone to a few mistakes - as he was last season although this was not really recognised - but he has terrific qualities and should not be dismissed just because his hype machine is set to overdrive.

EdenHazard

That's true in fairness, its not him who hypes himself as being at the same level as Buffon(at his best)

But I'd go as far to say he got lucky with the media behind him. There was a lot of pressure on Mancini from outside circles to make him their number one. He's not like even a standout among the rest of the English League. I wouldn't be in a rush to pick Hart over Michael Vorm or Tim Krul(just 2 examples)

Dempsey

Knex. wrote: »

Close this ****. Jesus wept.

Where was his, "Is Joe Hart the real deal" thread after he kept City in the game vs Dortmund? :rolleyes:

it was only one game, you can name many keepers that had 'one of those games'.

decent keeper, will become very good but he had a bad game tonight

EdenHazard

Dempsey wrote: »

it was only one game, you can name many keepers that had 'one of those games'.

decent keeper, will become very good but he had a bad game tonight

David Marshall vs Barca years ago now for example.

Knex*

Dempsey wrote: »

it was only one game, you can name many keepers that had 'one of those games'.

decent keeper, will become very good but he had a bad game tonight

I was going for the overreaction at the other scale angle tbh.

Hart is a very good keeper. He's 25 and has a premier league medal to his name and is playing for one of the best teams in Europe.

He's not Buffon, Casillas, or Neuer, and he may never get to that level, but he's not massively off it in my opinion.

Dempsey

Knex. wrote: »

I was going for the overreaction at the other scale angle tbh.

Hart is a very good keeper. He's 25 and has a premier league medal to his name and is playing for one of the best teams in Europe.

He's not Buffon, Casillas, or Neuer, and he may never get to that level, but he's not massively off it in my opinion.

id be careful labelling them one of the best in europe tbh. manc have done nothing to earn such a title.

neuer isnt at that level yet either!

Drumpot

David de Gea is 3 years younger, is better at distribution at least as good, if not better at shot stopping and hasn't played in the league as long or on front of a settled defence since joining united. He gets hammered for making no more mistakes then Harte and is not afforded the same benefit of the doubt from either pundits or fans (even of united) .

This is jut another example on a long line of inconsistant hypocrisys and double standards that exist in the game.

Incidentally the fact that he's no under any pressure at city and there are constant doubts expressed about de Gea simply highlights the enormity of being keeper of united versus being keeper of city.

EdenHazard

Like I say Hart is lucky he has the media behind him. Its why City got rid of Given(which they should have) but there was a campaign to make Hart number 1 as he was who England were putting their hopes on. Could be hope for that guy Butland but I hear he makes mistakes quite a bit as well(although hes young)

Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

David de Gea is 3 years younger, is better at distribution at least as good, if not better at shot stopping and hasn't played in the league as long or on front of a settled defence since joining united. He gets hammered for making no more mistakes then Harte and is not afforded the same benefit of the doubt from either pundits or fans (even of united) .

This is jut another example on a long line of inconsistant hypocrisys and double standards that exist in the game.

Incidentally the fact that he's no under any pressure at city and there are constant doubts expressed about de Gea simply highlights the enormity of being keeper of united versus being keeper of city.

Thinly veiled 'United are a much bigger club' post. At least spell his name right, it's only four letters.

ben.schlomo

Drumpot wrote: »

David de Gea is 3 years younger, is better at distribution at least as good, if not better at shot stopping and hasn't played in the league as long or on front of a settled defence since joining united. He gets hammered for making no more mistakes then Harte and is not afforded the same benefit of the doubt from either pundits or fans (even of united) .

This is jut another example on a long line of inconsistant hypocrisys and double standards that exist in the game.

Incidentally the fact that he's no under any pressure at city and there are constant doubts expressed about de Gea simply highlights the enormity of being keeper of united versus being keeper of city.

Jesus take off the tin foil hat there. De Gea cant come for a cross without collapsing under the force of gravity, bit different from Hart who i think is clearly better right now, De Gea needs more bulk and might fix this part of his game but its clear in the fact that Utd dont seem to have a number one that hes not the 2nd coming either.

Drumpot

EdenHazard wrote: »

David Marshall vs Barca years ago now for example.

Azerbaijan goalkeeper versus Portugal .

ben.schlomo

Xavi6 wrote: »

Thinly veiled 'United are a much bigger club' post. At least spell his name right, it's only four letters.

Ah nuts i thought twas Ian Harte he was on about, better edit my reply .

CSF

If anything, the lack of media criticism on Joe Hart has harmed the general perception of him, lots of people now picking up everything he does harshly, I remember him getting far too much criticism for the goal at the weekend and on a number of occasions before now.

I can think of a small number of keepers who I would have before him, but not many and none from the Premiership anyway.

Drumpot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Thinly veiled 'United are a much bigger club' post. At least spell his name right, it's only four letters.

No need to disguise the fact that united players are certainly set bigger standards but I can see how a massive club like city might be a bit sensitive on the topic of size.


Setting high standards is setting high standards, two goalkeepers who are treated on differant levels because of who they play for more then how they play.

The_Kew_Tour

CSF wrote: »

If anything, the lack of media criticism on Joe Hart has harmed the general perception of him, lots of people now picking up everything he does harshly, I remember him getting far too much criticism for the goal at the weekend and on a number of occasions before now.

I can think of a small number of keepers who I would have before him, but not many and none from the Premiership anyway.

I disagree. He was at fault for the goal at weekend. His body movement was terrible.

I do think he is fine keeper. He be in my Top 8, but some way to go before he is World Beater.

Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

No need to disguise the fact that united players are certainly set bigger standards

Yeah, nah. I've no doubt that the standards set at the reigning Premier League Champions are as high as they come.

But sure, if you have the inside word that it's different then good on you.

Given Hart's (notice the lack of an 'e' there in the spelling) age, ability and general character I wouldn't swap him right now. The hyperbole in both directions is hilarious, he's a very good keeper and will continue to be.

Happy days.

Gbear

Does anyone else think he's deceptively tall.

There's something about him that makes him look short - I think it's his giant head.

He's a strange looking fellow.

EdenHazard

Girls love him though!

Drumpot

ben.schlomo wrote: »

Jesus take off the tin foil hat there. De Gea cant come for a cross without collapsing under the force of gravity, bit different from Hart who i think is clearly better right now, De Gea needs more bulk and might fix this part of his game but its clear in the fact that Utd dont seem to have a number one that hes not the 2nd coming either.

What tin foil hat? De Gea gets more grief from some of his own fans for less then some of the mistakes hart has made. He made a balls of the spurs goal and yet some people actually think that this goal would be ok for most top keepers. WTF. We are only less then a third into the season and he's made several mistakes and let in average goals. He's under the spotlight because he has been built up so much.

Da Gea has made some amazing saves, including save of the season away to Chelsea and even his own fans wait for him to make a mistake so they can jump on the bandwagon. He gets little praise for what he does right and destroyed for Anything negative irrespective of how minor it is.

How anybody thinks hart gets more scrutinised is laughable.

Mars Bar

EdenHazard wrote: »

Girls love him though!

Only for the money though.

He didn't get lucky in the looks department.

klose

Drumpot wrote: »

David de Gea is 3 years younger, is better at distribution at least as good, if not better at shot stopping and hasn't played in the league as long or on front of a settled defence since joining united. He gets hammered for making no more mistakes then Harte and is not afforded the same benefit of the doubt from either pundits or fans (even of united) .

This is jut another example on a long line of inconsistant hypocrisys and double standards that exist in the game.

Incidentally the fact that he's no under any pressure at city and there are constant doubts expressed about de Gea simply highlights the enormity of being keeper of united versus being keeper of city.

To be fair de gea cost 17 million pounds which is huge money for a keeper, never mind a very young keeper. Hart cost 600k, pittance really. I'm aware he was out on a few loans since then.


Joe hart is like nickelback

Drumpot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Yeah, nah. I've no doubt that the standards set at the reigning Premier League Champions are as high as they come.

But sure, if you have the inside word that it's different then good on you.

Given Hart's (notice the lack of an 'e' there in the spelling) age, ability and general character I wouldn't swap him right now. The hyperbole in both directions is hilarious, he's a very good keeper and will continue to be.

Happy days.

I think you are misunderstanding the standards I was mentioning. Although perhaps you thought I meant medical standards that meant city had less injuries then any team and united had the most injuries to any team that I agree most definitely helped city scoop the league on goal differance in the last 20 seconds of the league.

No , I meant the standards whereby you can't feck off for a couple of months to a differant continent in a huff and expect to be welcome back with open arms.

See, both clubs have different standards for their players fitness and behaviour.

ben.schlomo

Drumpot wrote: »

What tin foil hat? De Gea gets more grief from some of his own fans for less then some of the mistakes hart has made. He made a balls of the spurs goal and yet some people actually think that this goal would be ok for most top keepers. WTF. We are only less then a third into the season and he's made several mistakes and let in average goals. He's under the spotlight because he has been built up so much.

Da Gea has made some amazing saves, including save of the season away to Chelsea and even his own fans wait for him to make a mistake so they can jump on the bandwagon. He gets little praise for what he does right and destroyed for Anything negative irrespective of how minor it is.

How anybody thinks hart gets more scrutinised is laughable.

Sure i never said he gets more scrutiny nor did i say Hart doesnt make mistakes, if you read my previous posts you would know my thoughts on Hart. Im reacting to your paranoia about De Gea. Not gonna drag this off Hart anyway so i will leave it at that.

Drumpot

whippedcream wrote: »

To be fair de gea cost 17 million pounds which is huge money for a keeper, never mind a very young keeper. Hart cost 600k, pittance really. I'm aware he was out on a few loans since then.


Joe hart is like nickelback

But the cost of a player is about value not ability. When a player is being judged on performance it doesn't matter what they cost, it's the level they are playing at.

Hart , as put by a poster here, plays for the epl champs and whether he was free or not the champions are supposed to be the benchmark and judged at the highest level. You don't get to have everything your way, all the plaudits and none of the negatives when things aren't going well.

Scuba Ste

Drumpot wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding the standards I was mentioning. Although perhaps you thought I meant medical standards that meant city had less injuries then any team and united had the most injuries to any team that I agree most definitely helped city scoop the league on goal differance in the last 20 seconds of the league.

No , I meant the standards whereby you can't feck off for a couple of months to a differant continent in a huff and expect to be welcome back with open arms.

See, both clubs have different standards for their players fitness and behaviour.

That's a lot of bitterness to store up for 6 months; can't be healthy. And your point about de Gea getting more stick from United fans says more about the fans than either keeper.

I would't have many other keepers at City. All players make mistakes but Hart doesn't seem to buy into the hype or get affected by the criticism too much.

Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

I think you are misunderstanding the standards I was mentioning. Although perhaps you thought I meant medical standards that meant city had less injuries then any team and united had the most injuries to any team that I agree most definitely helped city scoop the league on goal differance in the last 20 seconds of the league.

No , I meant the standards whereby you can't feck off for a couple of months to a differant continent in a huff and expect to be welcome back with open arms.

See, both clubs have different standards for their players fitness and behaviour.

I didn't mention anything about medical standards so wrong yet again.

Making it a habit now, see below.

Drumpot wrote: »

You don't get to have everything your way, all the plaudits and none of the negatives when things aren't going well.

None of the negatives? People like yourself ensure that there's plenty of negatives at the slightest opportunity so you're rendering your own point null and void.

Well done.

Melion

As a neutral, I would take Hart over De Gea every day of the week.

Xavi6

Scuba Ste wrote: »

That's a lot of bitterness to store up for 6 months; can't be healthy.

FlawedGenius

EdenHazard wrote: »

That's true in fairness, its not him who hypes himself as being at the same level as Buffon(at his best)

But I'd go as far to say he got lucky with the media behind him. There was a lot of pressure on Mancini from outside circles to make him their number one. He's not like even a standout among the rest of the English League. I wouldn't be in a rush to pick Hart over Michael Vorm or Tim Krul(just 2 examples)

Krul is Dutch.

Nailz

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Krul is Dutch.

So is Vorm, I don't believe he ever said otherwise though, to be fair to him.

Seaneh

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Krul is Dutch.

So is Vorm...

And Both Vorm and Kurl can't get a look in ahead of Maarten Stekelenburg for the dutch national team, and even Stekelenburg doesn't have a patch on Hart!

BhoscaCapall

Better than Forster on the basis that he plays in the Premiership, like the rest of the squad selection

T-K-O

OP; I kinda agree. If you read about Hart without seeing him you would expect a Buffon esque type player.

He's not a bad GK but he aint as good as people make out

eagle eye

Hart is a top class keeper. Everyone makes gaffs but the important thing is he bounces back from them unlike most. This was a big one playing for his country and many keepers don't recover from something like that. I think it won't bother him at all moving forward but we'll know over the next couple of weeks.