4G auctions over in Ireland

Cheerful Spring

Seems to me the Irish government made more money from this auction than they had planned for. Should this money be reinvested for broadband instead giving back to bondholders?

ComReg has revealed the results of its 4G spectrum auction for Ireland, awarding lots to Hutchison 3G, Meteor, Telefónica (O2) and Vodafone, with fees adding up to €854.6m, out of which €450m will go into the exchequer this year.

The lots include the release of 140MHz of paired spectrum – double the 64.8MHz of paired spectrum currently assigned in these bands.

Meteor, Telefónica and Vodafone were awarded lots in the 800MHz frequency band while Hutchison 3G Ireland, Meteor, Telefónica and Vodafone were all awarded lots in both the 900MHz and 1800MHz frequency bands.

The winning bidders will pay €854.6m for the spectrum rights, including €481.7m in up-front fees along with annual spectrum usage fees totalling €372.9m paid in instalments until July 2030.

The licences will enable the operators to begin building out Long Term Evolution (LTE) or 4G services from early 2013.

Under the obligations of their licences, all operators must maintain a minimum coverage of 70pc of the population and meet this target within three years of receiving the licence. Quality of service conditions require that no network can be offline for more than 35 minutes within a six-month period.

“Making this spectrum available to operators in the Irish market will mean that Irish consumers will be able to avail of the next generation of mobile devices with increased speeds and data capacity due to the excellent propagation properties of this particular spectrum,” ComReg chairman Alex Chisholm said.

The announcement of the completion of the 4G auctions came sooner than most people expected, since the UK has only begun revealing details of its auction plans and it had been expected that the Irish auction process could have rumbled on until Christmas.

The news puts Ireland months ahead of the UK in terms of awarding licences. The UK regulator Ofcom has set 11 December as the provisional date for the submission of applications by bidders. Ofcom said the application will be reviewed throughout December and bidding will begin in January. In February/March, bidders will be informed what they have won and its cost and by March licences will be granted after the fees are paid.

But the ultimate question is when will services be available? Ireland's Communications Minister Pat Rabbitte, TD, estimates the first services could become available in 2013. In the UK, Ofcom anticipates services will be available by June 2013 and Everything Everywhere (EE) launched 4G services in 10 UK cities last month.

€450m boost to Irish exchequer
“The proceeds of the auction are greater than many people expected and are a statement of confidence in the economy,” Rabbitte said.

“The total licence payments of €845m are front loaded so over 50pc of the money (at least €450m) will go to the exchequer this year. The balance will be paid over by telecoms companies on a phased basis over the coming years.

“The outcome of this auction is to provide valuable spectrum for the rollout of advanced telecommunications services. The availability of spectrum in the 800Mhz band, for the first time, will allow telecommunications operators to provide new high-speed broadband services that were not previously available. This particular band was made available following the successful switchover from analogue to digital TV three weeks ago.

"I expect that the telecoms companies who were the successful bidders will move quickly to build the infrastructure so that we can start to benefit from 4G mobile broadband services in 2013. This will be an important dimension of Ireland's competitiveness in the coming years. It is a key component of the Government's National Broadband Plan, which envisages high-speed broadband services being rolled out across Ireland in the lifetime of this Government,” Rabbitte said.

Operator plans for 4G rollout
The largest allocation of spectrum went to Vodafone, which, having already invested €900m in its Irish network so far, plans to invest €500m in the next five years.

Vodafone Ireland CEO Jeroen Hoencamp said the spectrum capacity will enable Vodafone to provide data in urban areas and deliver mobile broadband coverage in rural areas from 2013.

“We now have the best possible combination of available spectrum and work has already commenced on upgrading our network nationwide. Our customers have access currently to the fastest data network and from next year, they will experience the next generation of mobile technology, 4G,” Hoencamp said.

Telefónica, which owns the O2 brand in Ireland says it it plans to commence the rollout of its 4G network in the first half of 2013. Telefonica Ireland plans to invest a further €200m over the next three years to upgrade its network to 4G capability, building on €1bn it invested in its network in the last 10 years.

Telefónica Ireland CEO Tony Hanway said, “Telefónica is committing significant investment to the introduction and roll-out of next generation 4G technology in Ireland. 4G will significantly change the way consumers use their mobile devices and will transform our ability to meet customer demand for new products and services as they move to adopt smartphones, mobile modems and tablets in ever greater numbers.

“Our plans for 4G will ensure Ireland remains at the leading edge of communications, providing customers with significantly faster data transfer speeds and much faster connections to the internet,” Hanway said.

Eircom CEO Her Bribar says its €145m purchase of spectrum under the Meteor brand forms part of the Group’s €1.3bn of capital expenditure over the course of its current business plan. He said work will commence immediately to utilise the newly acquired spectrum and rollout services which will be introduced within the next twelve months.

“The spectrum acquired is a great step forward for the Group. We already offer the country’s most ubiquitous fixed and mobile network. We will now support super fast mobile broadband, data and voice services for customers across urban and rural Ireland.

“Together with our fibre rollout, investment in LTE services, network investment is a critical pillar supporting the Government’s broadband vision and is fully aligned with the national agenda for economic recovery. The additional spectrum enables us to deliver our ‘always connected’ customer strategy.

“We will now offer faster broadband speeds together with new and innovative product bundles that are seamlessly underpinned by a range of fixed and wireless technologies to our customers,” Hribar said.

Three (Hutchison 3G Ireland) won a strong portfolio of spectrum at the lowest portfolio price of €51.14m. The allocation more than doubles Three’s current spectrum holding and the company says it will improve network coverage nationwide (indoor and outdoor), enabling speeds of up to 180Mbps.

“We are delighted with the outcome of the auction – it gives us the best of both worlds, a strong portfolio at the best price,” Robert Finnegan, CEO of Three Ireland explained.

“Our strategy was to acquire a flexible mix of spectrum that would allow us to continue to be Ireland’s leading high speed network at the lowest cost. This result will enable the roll-out of new technologies such as LTE with speeds of up to 180Mbps but also allows us to continue to invest in our network going forward.

“Three’s network was built for data, we do not have to support old GSM handsets and legacy technologies in the same way as the old networks, so we do not need the same mix of spectrum. The €51.14 million price tag means we are in a very good position to continue to offer the very best value to consumers and the best service,” Finnegan said.

More below.
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/30238-comreg-reveals-4g-auction/

Blazer

It'll be another shambles as per usual.
Have to laugh at Three's claims..

"enabling speeds of up to 180Mbps"

Big Lar

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Under the obligations of their licences, all operators must maintain a minimum coverage of 70pc of the population and meet this target within three years of receiving the licence.

That promised min 30Mb for rural areas by 2015 seems to be slipping into the distance.

Sponge Bob

The operators intend that the government will pay for the network in rural areas. 70% population coverage means 13% GEOGRAPHIC coverage in Ireland. Vodafone are fully compliant when they reach 50% population coverage as their 'liberalised' licence allows them to cover teh other 20% by other means, 3g for example.

This means that all the licencees are fully compliant if they simply cover an area corresponding to all of Dublin and Cork but with plenty of people in it obviously. The rest of us can piss off. Three coverage might improve if Vodafone are building the network for them, stranger things have happened.

-=al=-

Had a little chuckle to myself when I heard about this and enjoyed listenin to Mr Rabbitte on the news there talking about it

Shambles, here we come

Sponge Bob

Given the way three overload their network I'd reckon 3mbits in the evening is the height of their ambition. Big improvement on the 0.3mbits they deliver nowadays of an evening though.

NIMAN

Pity they couldn't get the claimed speeds of 3G before embarking on 4G.

sagemaster

NIMAN wrote: »

Pity they couldn't get the claimed speeds of 3G before embarking on 4G.

Man the Government is after giving away the licencing for nothing..
Way too cheaply, I cannot believe that the chairman of com reg came out and said the price obtained exceeded their expectations. The mobile phone companies in this country are absolutely minting it. 850 million euro is nothing the government is after missing a fantastic opportunity to gather revenue here. It's been given away. There are an estimated 5 million mobile phones in this country (120%) penetration. If the average bill is €60 per month that means that the revenue generated in one month is €300,000,000. The mobile phone companies must be laughing at the government for their stupidity. The director of Com Reg then comes out saying they the bid offered exceeded their expectations!!!! How humiliating for him can someone please show him the figures???
Opportunity lost...

Jev/N

sagemaster wrote: »

Man the Government is after giving away the licencing for nothing..
Way too cheaply, I cannot believe that the chairman of com reg came out and said the price obtained exceeded their expectations. The mobile phone companies in this country are absolutely minting it. 850 million euro is nothing the government is after missing a fantastic opportunity to gather revenue here. It's been given away. There are an estimated 5 million mobile phones in this country (120%) penetration. If the average bill is €60 per month that means that the revenue generated in one month is €300,000,000. The mobile phone companies must be laughing at the government for their stupidity. The director of Com Reg then comes out saying they the bid offered exceeded their expectations!!!! How humiliating for him can someone please show him the figures???
Opportunity lost...

1. IMO the average bill isn't €60 per month
2. Not all phones are active nor are they all on bill pay
3. ???
4. Profit? - not so much

You do realise it was an auction though. How would you have proposed getting more money out of them? Set a stupidly ridiculous reserve on all blocks and bands and hope that they'll be stupid enough to buy into it. Eh, no.

You've to remember that we have a very small and concentrated mobile market in here, compared to most other European countries. If we had more operators with decent shares of the pie, there would be more competition, better pricing and, most importantly to this argument, much more aggressive bidding for the limited spectrum.

I love when posters rant about something that happens, a decision that's made or whatever, then quote some random facts they've somewhat made up or pulled out of their ass but fail to provide any actual cogent argument for how things should have been run.

Cheerful Spring

Blazer wrote: »

It'll be another shambles as per usual.
Have to laugh at Three's claims..

"enabling speeds of up to 180Mbps"

4G has the potential to go past 150 meg. Location seems to make a difference.

4G has already been launched in London ( limited though) but from the tests alone the speeds are amazing especially the upload speeds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/mar/28/4g-broadband-uk-how-fast

From what i heard we have lot more spectrum than the average country to use and with our low population customers could benefit from this. Only time will tell of course.

AlmightyCushion

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

4G has the potential to go past 150 meg. Location seems to make a difference.

4G has already been launched in London ( limited though) but from the tests alone the speeds are amazing especially the upload speeds.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2012/mar/28/4g-broadband-uk-how-fast

From what i heard we have lot more spectrum than the average country to use and with our low population customers could benefit from this. Only time will tell of course.

Those are some impressive speeds, once more than one person is using a 4G device in that cell they will start dropping significantly though.

Will Three be changing their name to Four?

cgarvey

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

4G has the potential to go past 150 meg. Location seems to make a difference.

4G has already been launched in London ( limited though) but from the tests alone the speeds are amazing especially the upload speeds.

3G has the same "potential". The reality is, of course, very different. The speeds in London aren't a valid comparison to Ireland because:

1) They were early speed tests on a low-contention network. The o2 tests were a rigged demo, for example.

2) UK's allocation of spectrum is much wider. I.e. 2x70MHz in the 1800 range there, versus 2x25MHz (max) here. Or 2x30MHz in 800/900 range there, 2x10MHz here. That has a huge bearing on speed.

I don't want to overly knock 4G, as it will bring significant benefits (especially latency and upload speed), but it's not the solution to mass broadband rollout, not the solution to a reliable domestic broadband service, not the solution to the digital divide (though it may be a small part of that solution), and is not going to give "30Mbps to everyone in Ireland by 2015" as Rabbitte has suggested.

lockup35

Would this 4G setup be any way compararable to a 7Mb DSL line with good line stats in tems of latency and stability?

Sponge Bob

Other than the elimination of cell breathing many will see very little improvement and 4g will only deliver big jumps in quiet cells.

Shyboy

[QUOTE=Will Three be changing their name to Four?[/QUOTE]

Very good!!:D

amdaley28

Had a good laugh at this.:D
4G yea if you live in a big urban area.
There are areas I know off who haven't even a mobile phone service.
The dead zone I call it.

ffs there are parts of the country who can't even get broadband.
Wait is that a truck I see heading for the South West with a roll of fibre optic cable ? :eek:
Sorry it was drainage pipe :P my mistake.

"30Mbps to everyone in Ireland by 2015" Maybe that should be 3015 :mad:
Rabbitte talking through his orifice as usual.

Sponge Bob

There will be 4g in rural areas too but the cells will be massive at 800mhz frequencies, perhaps 15 miles radius. Very few rural areas have ultra low populations where everyone can get a decent service although you could do a few islands off the mainland etc.

For 30mbit services on 4G in rural areas a lot of 1800mhz cells with much smaller service radii will be required and are capable of serviing low populations with their 30mbits that Rabbitte pulled out of his hind passage yesterday AND where operators pool their spectrum blocks. 5mhz here and there cannot deliver 30mbits, the important thing is to create large blocks of 30 40 50mhz etc by sensible regulation.

cgarrad

In fairness 3 offer "all you can eat data".

Obviously this will attract high volume users and slow their network.

Cheerful Spring

cgarvey wrote: »

3G has the same "potential". The reality is, of course, very different. The speeds in London aren't a valid comparison to Ireland because:

1) They were early speed tests on a low-contention network. The o2 tests were a rigged demo, for example.

2) UK's allocation of spectrum is much wider. I.e. 2x70MHz in the 1800 range there, versus 2x25MHz (max) here. Or 2x30MHz in 800/900 range there, 2x10MHz here. That has a huge bearing on speed.

I don't want to overly knock 4G, as it will bring significant benefits (especially latency and upload speed), but it's not the solution to mass broadband rollout, not the solution to a reliable domestic broadband service, not the solution to the digital divide (though it may be a small part of that solution), and is not going to give "30Mbps to everyone in Ireland by 2015" as Rabbitte has suggested.

3G, was never going to be fast as advertised. Only had to look elsewhere around the world were 3G was up and running to know this to be true.

4G, has been for years up and running in the United States, Europe has joined the club recently, and us and UK will get there next year. The speeds seem to be consistent. Of course contention will be an issue in some locations when 4G becomes the norm in Ireland. But the great thing is Ireland does have a low population compared to the UK ( London has 7 to 8 million people/ Dublin our biggest city has 1 and half million people) There is going to be less people on the 4G network here than anywhere else and there will be lot more available spectrum to use.

If we do it right everyone will have a good signal ( urban and rural) 3G also required more masts because it had a weaker signal. 4G will need fewer masts therefore infrastructure costs will be low ( least an acceptable standard) I expect rollout of 4G to come quick.

Fibre is never going to happen for rural Ireland, not in the next ten years anyway. 4G is what were going to get and lets hope its done right.

If i got 15 to 20 down and 10 up this would do me just fine.

padraig.od

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

3G, was never going to be fast as advertised. Only had to look elsewhere around the world were 3G was up and running to know this to be true.

4G, has been for years up and running in the United States, Europe has joined the club recently, and us and UK will get there next year. The speeds seem to be consistent. Of course contention will be an issue in some locations when 4G becomes the norm in Ireland. But the great thing is Ireland does have a low population compared to the UK ( London has 7 to 8 million people/ Dublin our biggest city has 1 and half million people) There is going to be less people on the 4G network here than anywhere else and there will be lot more available spectrum to use.

If we do it right everyone will have a good signal ( urban and rural) 3G also required more masts because it had a weaker signal. 4G will need fewer masts therefore infrastructure costs will be low ( least an acceptable standard) I expect rollout of 4G to come quick.

Fibre is never going to happen for rural Ireland, not in the next ten years anyway. 4G is what were going to get and lets hope its done right.

If i got 15 to 20 down and 10 up this would do me just fine.

Absolutely concur!

PogMoThoin

It's more mobile, it should never be used as a fixed broadband substitute. We need fibre, not more band aid fixes.

amdaley28

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

3G, was never going to be fast as advertised. Only had to look elsewhere around the world were 3G was up and running to know this to be true.

4G, has been for years up and running in the United States, Europe has joined the club recently, and us and UK will get there next year. The speeds seem to be consistent. Of course contention will be an issue in some locations when 4G becomes the norm in Ireland. But the great thing is Ireland does have a low population compared to the UK ( London has 7 to 8 million people/ Dublin our biggest city has 1 and half million people) There is going to be less people on the 4G network here than anywhere else and there will be lot more available spectrum to use.

If we do it right everyone will have a good signal ( urban and rural) 3G also required more masts because it had a weaker signal. 4G will need fewer masts therefore infrastructure costs will be low ( least an acceptable standard) I expect rollout of 4G to come quick.

Fibre is never going to happen for rural Ireland, not in the next ten years anyway. 4G is what were going to get and lets hope its done right.

If i got 15 to 20 down and 10 up this would do me just fine.

If I got 15 to 20 down then I'd think I was in another country.
In fact I would be in another country :rolleyes:

-=al=-

PogMoThoin wrote: »

It's more mobile, it should never be used as a fixed broadband substitute. We need fibre, not more band aid fixes.

This

I can't even get a fixed broadband service living in Dublin ffs

As for 3's all you can eat data, there's no tethering (although I don't know how they can monitor this) and 15GB is the all you can eat data. If anything when 4g eventually gets here there will probably be ridiculous data limits and scrupulous charges for easily exceeding the limits

They fobbed 3g off for the N"B"S and it barely works... Sort the proper broadband first instead of telling the public lies... Sick of services being advertised as "broadband" with "unlimited" use when it's not

Sponge Bob

-=al=- wrote: »

Sick of services being advertised as "broadband" with "unlimited" use when it's not

That is because Comreg let them do it. The coverage map that 3 publish on their website is complete ****e.....and Comreg blithely let them acquire customers by deception in many instances. So complain to Comreg or to your local TD ABOUT Comreg.

marno21

If you were in 2007 and you looked forward and though that you'd get 10/15Mbs via mobile, you'd think it was perfectly acceptable as an addition (for mobile) to your (you'd presume much faster and cheaper) home fixed connection. However in Ireland we have the situation that there will be possibility for faster speeds through the 4G networks, so it's going to mean that users will think "woo sure they're offering 100Mbps through the 3 yoke, I might as well cancel the home internet", which is just going to slow everyone down and congest the network

:mad:

funnyname

Don't mind 4g it's all about 5g and if we wait long enough then maybe 6 or 7g will finally sort us out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/mobile-phones/9683382/Digital-television-signal-to-be-shifted-to-make-way-for-5G-mobile-broadband.html

Also looks like the mobile companies in the UK will get a better deal than their Irish counterparts.

Ofcom has been criticised over its role in the 4G auction process, which has suffered repeated delays but is now scheduled to begin in January with a total reserve price of £1.3bn.

whytek

sagemaster wrote: »

Man the Government is after giving away the licencing for nothing..
Way too cheaply, I cannot believe that the chairman of com reg came out and said the price obtained exceeded their expectations. The mobile phone companies in this country are absolutely minting it. 850 million euro is nothing the government is after missing a fantastic opportunity to gather revenue here. It's been given away. [...]
Opportunity lost...

A point that seems to be being missed here; The service users (you) are those who end up paying this money into the state coffers.

If the govt. announced a state tax on mobile service, people might get out on the streets in protest and some politicians might get outraged and spend a few nights in the joy, but when it's called raising revenue by auctioning spectrum, that's all fine, and in fact it seems you want to pay more?

whytek

NIMAN wrote: »

Pity they couldn't get the claimed speeds of 3G before embarking on 4G.

It doesn't really work like that. 4G is not an upgrade, as it were, to 3G that requires a fully functioning 3G network in place in order to be installed.

In fact, the amount of extremely expensive and not yet paid for but now almost obsolete hardware that the operators have installed, (cost of ownership) one might be better off starting from zero, rather than being in the akward position of having an existing network. (physical structures, land rights and in some cases, backhaul infrastructure apart)