Isreal at war. Many comentators egging them on.

RainMaker

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Turkey's Erdogan Labels Israel a 'Terrorist State'

There are some Kurds in southern Turkey who would call Turkey a terrorist state....

Zebra3

IceFjoem wrote: »

While the Jews belong to the religion of Judaism, they also belong to their own ethnic group, so both apply really.

Many semites are of different religions and none.

Many people of different races have converted to judaism, islam and the rest.

Some jews are not all of the one race just as muslims aren't all the one race nor christians or Star Wars fans.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Zebra3 wrote: »

Does Hamas hate jews or does it hate the people who have stolen their land who happen to be jewish?

Who's land?.. Prior to the 1967 war Gaza was Egyptian.. When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 they should have handed those Egyptians back to Egypt.

Same goes for the West Bank, the feckers were happy enough to live as Jordanians until Jordan lost its war against Israel.

To the victor goes the spoils.

Zebra3

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

Who's land?.. Prior to the 1967 war Gaza was Egyptian.. When Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 they should have handed those Egyptians back to Egypt.

From 1948-1967 the Gaza Strip was occupied by Egypt. The people living in Gaza are Palestinians. It's not that difficult a fact for most people to get their heads around.

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

Same goes for the West Bank, the feckers were happy enough to live as Jordanians until Jordan lost its war against Israel.

The people of the West Bank lived under Jordanian occupation and yes, they preferred to it to zionist occupation and ethnic cleansing.

But please tell me more about Jordan losing its war against Israel. Are you talking about the 1967 War? The one that Israel started? In that case you mean Israel's war or are you trying to mislead people?

To the victor goes the spoils.

You need to read up on international law. :rolleyes:

Amongst other things....

ScumLord

Zebra3 wrote: »

Does Hamas hate jews or does it hate the people who have stolen their land who happen to be jewish?

I think the hatred between Muslims and Jews goes back long before Israel came into being. It's just another case of people fighting a tit for tat war over ancient religious dogma for no better reason than "my god is better than your god".

Run_to_da_hills

RainMaker wrote: »

There are some Kurds in southern Turkey who would call Turkey a terrorist state....

I would also agree somewhat with that.

Turkey has been supporting US NATO backed terrorists rebels in Syria and for it to come along and accuse Israel of been a terrorist state shows some kind of hypocrisy.

HavingCrack

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the hatred between Muslims and Jews goes back long before Israel came into being. It's just another case of people fighting a tit for tat war over ancient religious dogma for no better reason than "my god is better than your god".

Actually it doesn't. Muslim-Jewish relations have actually been quite good for a lot of history. Your average Jew in Muslim Arab lands was an awful lot better off than your average Jew in Europe for most of history really. There were some nasty incidents but on the whole Christianity has treated Jews far worse than Islam has until relatively recently.

The Muslim antagonism towards Jews has only really come about since the 1920's or so.

Zebra3

ScumLord wrote: »

I think the hatred between Muslims and Jews goes back long before Israel came into being. It's just another case of people fighting a tit for tat war over ancient religious dogma for no better reason than "my god is better than your god".

Well you think wrong.

Before the zionist invasions started from Europe only 5% of the Palestinian people were jewish. Jews and muslims lived in relative peace for centuries.

In the past, christian rulers have expelled jews from jerusalem and it was only when the city came back in to the control of muslims that jews were allowed to return in to the city.

Seaneh

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

To the victor goes the spoils.

Well, you clearly aren't too up on your international law on this matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation#International_law_after_1948

As for the rest of your post, they weren't pas pushed about being Palestinian citizens of Egypt or Jordan because at least they weren't being ethnically cleansed, forced out of their homes so that foreign settlers could build their nice little jewish only settlements.

Seaneh

HavingCrack wrote: »

Actually it doesn't. Muslim-Jewish relations have actually been quite good for a lot of history. Your average Jew in Muslim Arab lands was an awful lot better off than your average Jew in Europe for most of history really. There were some nasty incidents but on the whole Christianity has treated Jews far worse than Islam has until relatively recently.

The Muslim antagonism towards Jews has only really come about since the 1920's or so.

Jewish and Muslim relations are traditionally very good.

When the Moorish invasion of southern spain started the spanish jewish population sided with the muslim moors because they knew, from examples throughout north africa, they would receive much better treatment from Jewish rulers then they had from the Christians.

And when the Moor's withdrew from Spain, the Jew's, for the most part, went with them and settled in Morocco and Tunisia and stayed there mostly unharassed until the beginning of the 20th century.

SafeSurfer

Local-womanizer wrote: »

If they went in, with you provocation from Hamas and starting killing civilians, then attitudes would change. I am under no illusions that the conflict would be sorted out in a week but if Hamas keep firing rockets, sending suicide bombers etc they are just going down a dead end..

Hamas have stopped the use of suicide bombers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/apr/09/israel

Here is an interesting clip of former US president Jimmy Carter speaking about the plight of Palestinians.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3rytiINiUo

ScumLord

HavingCrack wrote: »

The Muslim antagonism towards Jews has only really come about since the 1920's or so.

There's always been antagonism, it's unavoidable when religions consider people outside of their faith to be sinners and heathens. There's been expulsions of Jews by Muslims as far back as 600AD. It's flip flopped to more peaceful times but their religions where always an excuse for violence whenever they saw fit.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Zebra3 wrote: »

The people of the West Bank lived under Jordanian occupation and yes, they preferred to it to zionist occupation and ethnic cleansing.

Seaneh wrote: »

As for the rest of your post, they weren't pas pushed about being Palestinian citizens of Egypt or Jordan because at least they weren't being ethnically cleansed

Yes, except September ~ Jordanians excelled at ethnic cleansing one dark, black September didn't they

Local-womanizer

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Hamas have stopped the use of suicide bombers.

Only recently. And my point is still relevant. Any attack by Hamas is still counter productive to the Palestinian cause in the long run.

I'm not pro-Israel or pro-Palastenian. That's simplistic view on the troubles over there, picking one side. The route being taken at the moment is obviously not working, and the retaliatory attacks do nothing but fuel bickering on message boards and result in needless deaths on both sides.

IceFjoem

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Only recently. And my point is still relevant. Any attack by Hamas is still counter productive to the Palestinian cause in the long run.

I'm not pro-Israel or pro-Palastenian. That's simplistic view on the troubles over there, picking one side. The route being taken at the moment is obviously not working, and the retaliatory attacks do nothing but fuel bickering on message boards and result in needless deaths on both sides.

:rolleyes:

Local-womanizer

IceFjoem wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Ah sorry, suppose they are moving towards peace one body at a time then.

Zebra3

ScumLord wrote: »

There's been expulsions of Jews by Muslims as far back as 600AD.

That's really interesting.




As far as lies go anyway.

It wasn't for another ten years that Muhammad claimed he was having visions which were to signal the start of islam.

Did these muslims do a spot of time travelling or what?

IceFjoem

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Ah sorry, suppose they are moving towards peace one body at a time then.

Ha, no, it's just that I read that last part to indicate that retaliatory attacks in the middle east would result in the deaths of posters on message boards!:p

Seaneh

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

Yes, except September ~ Jordanians excelled at ethnic cleansing one dark, black September didn't they

Which only started after the 6 day war and occupation by Israel of the west bank and Gaza. And expelling Palestinian Refugee's from Jordan because of the actions of the PLO are not the same as actually removing people from their homes. It's not a whole lot better, but it's not ethnic cleansing.

Local-womanizer

IceFjoem wrote: »

Ha, no, it's just that I read that last part to indicate that retaliatory attacks in the middle east would result in the deaths of posters on message boards!:p

Ah! Depends where your posting from!

ScumLord

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's really interesting.




As far as lies go anyway.

It wasn't for another ten years that Muhammad claimed he was having visions which were to signal the start of islam.

Did these muslims do a spot of time travelling or what?

Ok so the exact time period is 634AD - 650AD. They kicked out the Christians too so I guess it wasn't just an anti Jew thing.

tayto lover

Just watched the News reports at 6.
What the Israelis are doing in Gaza is totally horrific. Barbarous acts of cowardice.

shedweller

Boy did we go in after saddam when we heard about all the terrible things he was doing.
And didnt we go after Slobodan Milošević for all the bad things he did.
And here is israel inflicting genocide on people they turfed out of their homes. (See the video i posted above. Nice homes they were)
And yet we have people either doing nothing or actually defending their actions!
What ARE they doing to Palestine? And are we just going to stand idly by and argue in circles forever? We are gutless bastards and should be ashamed of ourselves.

intellectual dosser

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

To the victor goes the spoils.

<clears throat>

"God save our nations...."


OK Editing because it doesnt look right on readback.

Iraq isn't now half American and half British...is roughly where I was going

Nodin

Raylan Hundreds Nanny wrote: »

Yes, except September ~ Jordanians excelled at ethnic cleansing one dark, black September didn't they

Considering Jordanians are a minority within Jordan, I don't think we can award them the Golden Reinhard Heydrich yet....

Run_to_da_hills

tayto lover wrote: »

Just watched the News reports at 6.
What the Israelis are doing in Gaza is totally horrific. Barbarous acts of cowardice.

And that's mild compared to other news channels like Press TV, RT and Aljazeera.

Seaneh

Surprisingly unbiased common sense being talked on Skynews... Colour me stunned.

votecounts

Israel is a murdering thug who loves murdering innocent men, women,children,etc. How it gets away with it is no mystery, as long as big brother doesn't say a word its grand.
All relations economically and political should be broken on a global level.
Let the israelis suffer like the palestinians have for decades.
A terrorist of a nation.

shedweller

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

And that's mild compared to other news channels like Press TV, RT and Aljazeera.

"Ah shur they exaggerate things out of all proportion. And shur they're biased as hell too!"
LOL!!
Wait for it. Its coming!

Run_to_da_hills

shedweller wrote: »

"Ah shur they exaggerate things out of all proportion. And shur they're biased as hell too!"
LOL!!
Wait for it. Its coming!

Like a decapitated child's head on the ground after an Israel air strike.

i could show the link but I guess it would be against the charter.

tayto lover

shedweller wrote: »

"Ah shur they exaggerate things out of all proportion. And shur they're biased as hell too!"
LOL!!
Wait for it. Its coming!

Yes there is a lot to LOL about with 4 little bodies laid out in a corner of a bombed house. Enjoy your laugh.

nacho libre

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes there is a lot to LOL about with 4 little bodies laid out in a corner of a bombed house. Enjoy your laugh.

i could be wrong, but i think he/she is laughing at the ridiculous stance of apologists who used such images to suggest the impact of the violence is being exaggerated, and is being merely used for propaganda purposes by pro palestinians.
anyway, i just can't help but wonder are the hamas officials not targeted, working for mossad. it certainly seems hamas is far easier to infilitrate than hezbollah- having said that the israeli always seem to get their targets in the end, so the head of hezbollah(Nasrallah) will probably be taken out some day,

tayto lover

nacho libre wrote: »

i could be wrong, but i think he/she is laughing at the ridiculous stance of apologists who used such images to suggest the impact of the violence is being exaggerated, and is being merely used for propaganda purposes by pro palestinians.
anyway, i just can't help but wonder are the hamas officials not targeted, working for mossad. it certainly seems hamas is far easier to infilitrate than hezbollah- having said that the israeli always seem to get their targets in the end, so the head of hezbollah(Nasrallah) will probably be taken out some day,

If so then I apologize for getting angry.

Merk35

International poll carried out by CNN

57% think Israel is justified in its response.

Only 25% think it's unjustified.

Great news and it appears the Palestinians may have pushed one time too many, as they rely on media bias and this will not be good news for them.

Unlucky lads.

RainMaker

I get the feeling here sometimes that people want to see carnage on the streets of Gaza, the more bodies and destruction the better, just so they can bitch about Israeli brutality.

Now before anyone tries to accuse me of defending Israel, I am not - I think what they are doing now and have done in the past is a stain on humanity.

But put it into historical perspective - it's not the first time one country with an overwhelming military superiority has invaded another.
Nearly 20 whole cities were destroyed during the Korean war, most of Japan was burnt to the ground even before they dropped the Atomic bombs, Syria, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Rwanda - where ever there is war there will be atrocities.

At this stage we can only hope that every life lost in the current hostilities speeds up the collective desire for peace. Eventually you would think that both sides will just get sick of living in a constant state of war and fear - or you would like to think that some day they will reach that stage. I am not sure it will happen in my lifetime without some serious intervention, and I won't be holding my breath for that!

tayto lover

Merk35 wrote: »

International poll carried out by CNN

57% think Israel is justified in its response.

Only 25% think it's unjustified.

Great news and it appears the Palestinians may have pushed one time too many, as they rely on media bias and this will not be good news for them.

Unlucky lads.

Link please.

Run_to_da_hills

Merk35 wrote: »

International poll carried out by CNN

57% think Israel is justified in its response.

Only 25% think it's unjustified.

Great news and it appears the Palestinians may have pushed one time too many, as they rely on media bias and this will not be good news for them.

Unlucky lads.

What would one expect from a corporate Zionist US mainstream media poll.

Merk35

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What would one expect from a corporate Zionist US mainstream media poll.

Ah, typical Irish Republican response.

tayto lover

RainMaker wrote: »

I get the feeling here sometimes that people want to see carnage on the streets of Gaza, the more bodies and destruction the better, just so they can bitch about Israeli brutality.

Now before anyone tries to accuse me of defending Israel, I am not - I think what they are doing now and have done in the past is a stain on humanity.

But put it into historical perspective - it's not the first time one country with an overwhelming military superiority has invaded another.
Nearly 20 whole cities were destroyed during the Korean war, most of Japan was burnt to the ground even before they dropped the Atomic bombs, Syria, Somalia, Yugoslavia, Rwanda - where ever there is war there will be atrocities.

At this stage we can only hope that every life lost in the current hostilities speeds up the collective desire for peace. Eventually you would think that both sides will just get sick of living in a constant state of war and fear - or you would like to think that some day they will reach that stage. I am not sure it will happen in my lifetime without some serious intervention, and I won't be holding my breath for that!

Well if people want to see bodies on the streets then the Israelis won't disappoint them. Their murder machine never disappoints in that case.
I wonder if they will ever try something different.

Merk35

tayto lover wrote: »

Well if people want to see bodies on the streets then the Israelis won't disappoint them. Their murder machine never disappoints in that case.
I wonder if they will ever try something different.

Like bombing pubs?

cristoir

Israel are a lot to blame for this and could do with booting Benjamin Netanyahu out and replacing him with the just about slightly more Liberal Shaul Mofaz at the next election. However it is ridiculousness to expect Gaza to be allowed lob 1500 missiles at it's neighbor since January and not expect retaliation. I'd imagine we had a neighbor on a non-existent southern border which was run by Islamic fundamentalists who were lobbing missiles into Munster every other day then there would be a demand for tough action here as well.

Merk35

cristoir wrote: »

Israel are a lot to blame for this and could do with booting Benjamin Netanyahu out and replacing him with the just about slightly more Liberal Shaul Mofaz at the next election. However it is ridiculousness to expect Gaza to be allowed lob 1500 missiles at it's neighbor since January and not expect retaliation. I'd imagine we had a neighbor on a non-existent southern border which was run by Islamic fundamentalists who were lobbing missiles into Munster every other day then there would be a demand for tough action here as well.

At last some more sensible views. Netanyahu isn't actually as hawkish as is made out. His ideology with regards to Palestinians has always focussed around economic prosperity, as he sees that as a building block for peace. The reasoning is that if people are more prosperous, they're less likely to blow themselves up.

Certainly in the WB the situation is a different world from 2002 when it was basically a war zone. It's got quite a vibrant continental coffee house type feel to it now in areas. A substantial middle class and territorial contiguity due to the dismantling of many checkpoints etc.

Having a million people living in bomber shelters for weeks on end is untenable and Israel had to act.

tayto lover

Merk35 wrote: »

Like bombing pubs?

I do not understand that post at all.
What good will bombing pubs or anything else do?
Have they not killed enough kids and innocent civilians already?

BlaasForRafa

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What would one expect from a corporate Zionist US mainstream media poll.

Sure why don't you post another link from your buddies at presstv like the Israeli F16 that was "shot down" eh?

Nodin

Merk35 wrote: »

At last some more sensible views. Netanyahu isn't actually as hawkish as is made out. His ideology with regards to Palestinians has always focussed around economic prosperity, as he sees that as a building block for peace. The reasoning is that if people are more prosperous, they're less likely to blow themselves up.

Certainly in the WB the situation is a different world from 2002 when it was basically a war zone. It's got quite a vibrant continental coffee house type feel to it now in areas. A substantial middle class and territorial contiguity due to the dismantling of many checkpoints etc.

Having a million people living in bomber shelters for weeks on end is untenable and Israel had to act.

Its being colonised in a manner which threatens any hope of it having "territorial contiguity". Settler violence is widespread and unchecked, and the settler only roads etc are still extant.

Merk35

Nodin wrote: »

Its being colonised in a manner which threatens any hope of it having "territorial contiguity". Settler violence is widespread and unchecked, and the settler only roads etc are still extant.

When the palestinians start talking of de-colonising the likes of Hebron and parts of East Jerusalem which were Jewish up to 1948 and 1929 respectively, then we can discuss other land issues.

As for settler violence, I condemn it and them. Although the majority are fine people.

Nodin

Merk35 wrote: »

When the palestinians start talking of de-colonising the likes of Hebron and parts of East Jerusalem which were Jewish up to 1948 and 1929 respectively, then we can discuss other land issues..

Those areas aren't part of Israels internationaly recognised territory, so whatever nonsense you're planning on trotting out is rather irrelevant.

Merk35 wrote: »

As for settler violence, I condemn it and them. Although the majority are fine people.

As colonists, their presence is part of the problem.

Merk35

Nodin wrote: »

Those areas aren't part of Israels internationaly recognised territory, so whatever nonsense you're planning on trotting out is rather irrelevant.

UN resolutions rammed through by the Islamic bloc using Oil bribery in the 1970's are not my concern.

The simple fact is that Jews were ethnically cleansed from East Jerusalem in 1948 and Hebron in 1929.

These are historical facts and are well documented. Including news reels showing Jews being driven from East Jerusalem.

HavingCrack

Merk35 wrote: »

When the palestinians start talking of de-colonising the likes of Hebron and parts of East Jerusalem which were Jewish up to 1948 and 1929 respectively, then we can discuss other land issues.

As for settler violence, I condemn it and them. Although the majority are fine people.

1929, what are you on about? In 1929 neither Arabs or Jews "owned" areas in the way that you mean.

As for Hebron, its governed by the 1995 Oslo Accords and 1997 Hebron agreement whereby Israel and the PA administer it jointly. Hebron was never majority Jewish anyway, it's always been Muslim majority since at least the 1800's.

As for 1948, the Palestinians lost far more land than Jewish people did. Funny how you expect the Palestinians to "return" land before any Israeli's do so.

Nodin

Merk35 wrote: »

UN resolutions rammed through by the Islamic bloc using Oil bribery in the 1970's are not my concern..

Israels territory was defined in 1949....

Merk35 wrote: »

The simple fact is that (.........)Jerusalem.

I never said it didn't happen. I said those areas are outside Israels territory.