Isreal at war. Many comentators egging them on.

hatrickpatrick

HavingCrack wrote: »

The solution to the Middle East problem is a return to the pre 1967 borders (including East Jerusalem) in its entirety by Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state out of this area.

The solution for this is for the international community to force the Israelis to withdraw through pressure and sanctions, but as long as the US wants to play lapdog for the sake of appeasing a few lobby groups, that isn't going to happen.

I just hope that when the Palestinian statehood issue comes up in the UN, EU countries will have the balls to vote with their own conscience and not pander to either America's bully tactics, or Germany or someone else's desire for a common EU position.

Gilmore assured us a few years ago that Ireland would be voting yes in such a resolution for he UNGA. Hope that still stands.

SafeSurfer

Israel has consistently breached UN resolutions (diluted at US request though they are) but no action, sanctions etc, are taken against them because of the US veto on the security council.

http://www.uscrusade.com/forum/config.pl/noframes/read/1372

maddragon

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Where is Isreal?

Is where de man Ali G is from

666irishguy

HavingCrack wrote: »

The solution to the Middle East problem is a return to the pre 1967 borders (including East Jerusalem) in its entirety by Israel and the creation of a Palestinian state out of this area. The Palestinians (both PLO and Hamas) and other Arab states have to recognise Israel's right to exist. Furthermore the Palestinians will have to accept that they will never have the 'right of return' to land occupied by their grandparents (it's been so long that very few of the refugees ever actually lived in the place they claim the right to return to). Compensationary payments could be made but the Palestinians need to accept that there's no way they'll ever be able to return (as I said it's not a real return in many cases). Israel also needs to accept that the Palestinians have the right to elect Hamas to government if they so choose.

Do the Palestinians come off the worst in such a peace deal? Definately but unless a one state solution suddenly becomes viable, which would allow for the right of return (which is unlikely, it would just be like a more unstable Lebannon) it's the best they'll get.

If they could get a decent sized area out of the West Bank and get relatively unrestricted access with some compensation they would be doing well in addition to having Gaza opened up with perhaps a few kilometres of land into the Sinai given to them by Egypt to cement the border. There is I think no hope that any Israeli politician would give them East Jerusalem or share it. The best they could hope for is access to it. There are then the whole other string of issues that pop up once they get that far, like airspace. Are the Israeli's going to accept that the Palestinians (as would be their right as a nation) to form their own military with jets and helicopters so close to Israeli population centres. What happens when the first bomb planted by what I suppose would be expected anti treaty forces, goes off inside Israel. If it happens at all, for the first twenty years I foresee literally the biggest militarised wall since Berlin dividing the two states. I'd reckon it would be do-able as long as the surrounding countries don't go hard-line Islamic after the Arab spring wears off.

flyswatter

squod wrote: »

So troops and tanks from Isreals part time army are gathering to invade Palestine. Bombers are killing civillians from fighter jets and drones.

George Calloway, famous Big Brother Housemate and politicianist is urging Arabs to give up on their uprising yoke and defend their Palestinian neighbours.

Izzy right???? Or just fanning the flames??

Link? Galloway is very much anti war.

ringadingding

I don't know much of the history or situation, but from what I gather there is such a slim chance of peace there it either has to continue like this or somebody has to win, by the sounds of things by anialating the other.

All out war , who wins ?

BlaasForRafa

ringadingding wrote: »

I don't know much of the history or situation, but from what I gather there is such a slim chance of peace there it either has to continue like this or somebody has to win, by the sounds of things by anialating the other.

All out war , who wins ?

All out war? Israel would win, not much question of that really.

marcsignal

super_furry wrote: »

At this stage Hamas are like a child who keep poking a rabid dog with a stick and then act surprised when they get bitten.

best description of the Israeli Govt I've heard in a while, congratulations

somefeen

Giveitlaldy. wrote: »

Protestants of Ulster are with you Israel. Keep defending your homeland against the Palestinian aggressors. No Surrender.

http://nifriendsofisrael.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/flag-team.jpg

I bet they're delighted with that news

flyswatter

Shryke wrote: »

Hussein? He was very pally with him. He's a very dodgy character. He came out recently during the whole Assange debacle making an internet video saying that if a woman goes to bed with you and sleeps with you, that it is then OK to have sex with her again while she's sleeping. I think that was the brunt of his argument. It was plain weird.

He's not stupid but he's no genius. He loves the attention he gets. I've seen him decimated on shows and he's happy to sit their and take it. I don't think he cares. That's probably his greatest asset and maybe that's why he comes across as intelligent/more together. Belligerent confidence.

Youre wrong about both those stories, he denounced Saddam while the US was ironically selling him guns. I've seen that wikileaks video, and you're just making that up. He was saying something along the lines of it being wrong by any means to sleep with a woman without consent.

fasttalkerchat

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

All out war? Israel would win, not much question of that really.

Out of context yes, but even after a genocide of the Palestinains, the Zionists will still be in the Middle east and will find a new neighbour to annoy.

Seaneh

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

All out war? Israel would win, not much question of that really.

All out war, every Arab Nation with a boarder with Israel as well as Iran and The US would be dragged into it and we would all loose, actually, and ISrael would lose in the long run because after the war stops, Palestine will still exist and countless Israeli and Palestinian citizens would be dead.

This isn't 1967 any more, the Arab countries have modern tech too, and a lot more aircraft. Israel would be ****ed.

It's not as simple as "Israel big, Palestine small, Israel wins, duh".

gallag

Seaneh wrote: »

All out war, every Arab Nation with a boarder with Israel as well as Iran and The US would be dragged into it and we would all loose, actually, and ISrael would lose in the long run because after the war stops, Palestine will still exist and countless Israeli and Palestinian citizens would be dead.

This isn't 1967 any more, the Arab countries have modern tech too, and a lot more aircraft. Israel would be ****ed.

It's not as simple as "Israel big, Palestine small, Israel wins, duh".

Yeah no, Israel wins. They have nukes. All the Arabs know that if they beat Israel they will lose. Unless you believe they would just get annihilated without using the final solution?

Iwasfrozen

marcsignal wrote: »

fixed your little propaganda pic for you there :cool:

That's horrific, why the fúck would you post that?

marcsignal

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

That's horrific, why the fúck would you post that?

because it's the truth ??

Iwasfrozen

marcsignal wrote: »

because it's the truth ??

It's disgusting. That poor child.

Super hoop

marcsignal wrote: »

fixed your little propaganda pic for you there :cool:

That's sick...

BlaasForRafa

Seaneh wrote: »

All out war, every Arab Nation with a boarder with Israel as well as Iran and The US would be dragged into it and we would all loose, actually, and ISrael would lose in the long run because after the war stops, Palestine will still exist and countless Israeli and Palestinian citizens would be dead.

This isn't 1967 any more, the Arab countries have modern tech too, and a lot more aircraft. Israel would be ****ed.

It's not as simple as "Israel big, Palestine small, Israel wins, duh".

Israel's tech is superior to any arab country's, even the US supplied stuff that Egypt has, IAF planes have Israeli developed avionics and missiles rather than the standard US export stuff. The Soviet-era crap that Syria has would be demolished pretty sharply. Saudi and the other arab nations have never shown themselves to be partial to getting their hands dirty by getting involved directly.

I'm definitely not saying it would be easy or a walkover but the Israelis would be far more motivated the soldiers or airmen of the arab countries just as in 1948, 67 and 74. As Golda Meir said "This country has decided to live and if we must pay the price for living we must pay it, this is not a country that can give in"

marcsignal

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's disgusting. That poor child.

Exactly Iwasfrozen.

I was born 7 days before the six day war, and that this **** is still going on, while animals play politics, and we all sit in our comfortable houses pontificating about the 'cosmic reasons' why it cant be solved.....


It make me fucking sick :mad:

kraggy

tayto lover wrote: »

It always amazes me that a people who suffered so much at the hands of the Nazis can heap so much suffering on another people. Shame on them. Nothing learned at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

Seaneh

gallag wrote: »

Yeah no, Israel wins. They have nukes. All the Arabs know that if they beat Israel they will lose. Unless you believe they would just get annihilated without using the final solution?

You actually think Israel is stupid enough to actually use a Nuke? Don't be daft.

Seaneh

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Israel's tech is superior to any arab country's, even the US supplied stuff that Egypt has, IAF planes have Israeli developed avionics and missiles rather than the standard US export stuff. The Soviet-era crap that Syria has would be demolished pretty sharply. Saudi and the other arab nations have never shown themselves to be partial to getting their hands dirty by getting involved directly.

I'm definitely not saying it would be easy or a walkover but the Israelis would be far more motivated the soldiers or airmen of the arab countries just as in 1948, 67 and 74. As Golda Meir said "This country has decided to live and if we must pay the price for living we must pay it, this is not a country that can give in"

I honestly think there is no way Israel could defend itself from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Palestinian guerilla's and Iran at the same time, they would be foolish to even try it. They have more advanced tech, but their neighbours aren't the walkovers they were in 1967 (especially Egypt).

Egypt alone have 240 F16's, 79 older Mirage's and 80 recently updated MiG 21's all with upgraded British Avionics and a mixture of modern NATO and Russian missiles.


Then you have the war on the ground, where they would be ridiculously outnumbered. Again, Egypt have a **** ton of M1 Abrams and M60 Patton's, Modern Russian T-80's, Their own Ramses II's and EIFV's, and hundreds and hundreds of modern version of older soviet vehicles.


In a ground war, Israel is totally ****ed.

fasttalkerchat

That youtube video says it all.
Eventually the Zionist state will be gone, I just hope that the white people (Both Jews and Christians) can live peacefully in the Middle East once the state is gone.

asherbassad

davet82 wrote: »

anyone see that picture of a palestinian bbc journalist holding his dead baby son after the attacks last night, fcuking heart wrenching stuff, the aungish on the guys face just haunts me, this has to stop, its just madness

It's ANTI-SEMITIC to express empathy towards the victims of IDF violence.

fasttalkerchat

Its strange how the abused become the abusers... I'll never understand humans!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012

As of October 2012, over 800 rockets had been launched at Israel from Gaza since January 2012

!!

fasttalkerchat

Deleted User wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012

!!

How does that justify what Israel does? That's like the British government invading Dublin after the Brighton bomb.

asherbassad

davet82 wrote: »

anyone see that picture of a palestinian bbc journalist holding his dead baby son after the attacks last night, fcuking heart wrenching stuff, the aungish on the guys face just haunts me, this has to stop, its just madness

It's a daily occurrence for Palestinians, the knackers of the Middle East. Starve them to death so they just die out. And when a few of them fight back....THEY'RE the scumbags?

That BBC reporter only lost one family member. This poor little creature has lost all of them (and most likely her mind too):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLEEbraFmR0

That was during the last brave attempt to defend Israel by having gunboats shell picnics. Next great war of liberation is coming up. Show us how it's done, Bibi. Show us how your steel chariots can reduce plump, gurgling little toddlers into piles of chopped meat to bleed into the sand.

fasttalkerchat

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

How does that justify what Israel does? That's like the British government invading Dublin after the Brighton bomb.

Hamas governs Gaza !

No matter what you cannot justify indiscriminately firing 800 rockets at civilians.
Stopping Hamas doing this is justified. Most Israelis alive today werent around when the state was created.

asherbassad

Shryke wrote: »

I almost want to root for Israel just for being existing in the middle of an Islamic snake pit but of course they're altogether entirely horrible themselves in turn.
Interesting fact time! Einstein was offered the first presidency of Israel but turned it down. He didn't really like what he saw happening there.

They're taking the piss more than usual this last year. Military figures stepping down and speaking against the current regime, a lot of talk about Iran, blowing up Iranian scientists all over the place, that especially threatening Romney endorsement, all that noise from the flotilla, and now this craic.

Not to mention bitching about Iran (a signatory of the NPT) developing nuclear energy and all the while having 140 nuclear warheads and refusing to sign the NPT. Israel....bunch of whinging old bitches who kick a dog and then cry to Animal Protection when it bites back.

asherbassad

My name is URL wrote: »

He's certainly not stupid, but I wouldn't trust a word he says tbh. For a man that claims to be 'for the people', he's not afraid to side with world leaders known for murdering their own people.

There's something extremely untrustworthy and underhanded about him imo.

What world leaders has he "sided with" who are known for killing their own people?

If you are talking about Saddam Hussein, then you'll know that he was campaigning against that regime since the 70's.

Who are the others?

asherbassad

super_furry wrote: »

At this stage Hamas are like a child who keep poking a rabid dog with a stick and then act surprised when they get bitten.

It's probably more like throwing rocks at a rabid dog who won't leave your hen-house alone.

asherbassad

Deleted User wrote: »

Hamas governs Gaza !

No matter what you cannot justify indiscriminately firing 800 rockets at civilians.
Stopping Hamas doing this is justified. Most Israelis alive today werent around when the state was created.

Israel is illegally blockading the entire Gaza Strip. They cut off the electricity and water just for the craic. That right there is a crime against humanity. Gaza is the world's largest concentration camp. If Gaza fishermen go out into the Med to catch fish they are torpedoed or riddled by Israeli gunboats. The Israeli MO is to completely ethnically cleanse all Arabs from the Med to the Jordan River and from the Litani River (inside Lebanon) to the Red Sea.
Anyone who fights back against genocide must be labelled a "terrorist" and it's a great excuse to kill thousands more Palestinians.

Manic Moran

Seaneh wrote: »

I honestly think there is no way Israel could defend itself from Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Palestinian guerilla's and Iran at the same time, they would be foolish to even try it. They have more advanced tech, but their neighbours aren't the walkovers they were in 1967 (especially Egypt).

Egypt alone have 240 F16's, 79 older Mirage's and 80 recently updated MiG 21's all with upgraded British Avionics and a mixture of modern NATO and Russian missiles.


Then you have the war on the ground, where they would be ridiculously outnumbered. Again, Egypt have a **** ton of M1 Abrams and M60 Patton's, Modern Russian T-80's, Their own Ramses II's and EIFV's, and hundreds and hundreds of modern version of older soviet vehicles.


In a ground war, Israel is totally ****ed.

Actually, I'm not so sure. I think it's the air war where the Israelis may have more problems. As a general rule, Arab pilots tend to be a little more competent than their ground-based brethren, give a good pilot good equipment and he's dangerous. Give a bad tanker good equipment, and he's still not particularly dangerous.

And unfortunately, even the equipment isn't quite up to par. Sure, the Abrams is well better than the other things like Ramses, but Egyptian quality control on the Abrams production line (they build them locally) hasn't been quite up to par, the vehicles are much less reliable in Egyptian service than other nations.

Seaneh

My point about the ground forces, especially the tanks, it just sheer numbers. Egypt alone dwarf Israel in numbers on the ground (they Israel has a slightly bigger AF I think?) and then you add in Jordan and Syria (whatever they can spare from killing their own people) and the palestinian and Lebanese malitia's and Israel's only advantage is in the air...


What about the navy's of each country? What is the state of the egyptian navy?

fasttalkerchat

Deleted User wrote: »

No matter what you cannot justify indiscriminately firing 800 rockets at civilians.

I'm not. And neither do some of Israel's victims.
The IDF are the Army of the Israeli state and as such they are responsible for their actions. Do they justify the actions of the IDF? Constantly. Do they lie about their actions? Constantly. Do they cover up the murder of civilians? Constantly.

Want examples? At least 6,617 Palestinians and 1,097 Israelis
have been killed this decade. One in 5 Palestinians were children and 98.9% were killed on their own land.
More Israeli soldiers die from suicide than at the hands of Hamas.

asherbassad

asherbassad wrote: »

Israel is illegally blockading the entire Gaza Strip. They cut off the electricity and water just for the craic. That right there is a crime against humanity. Gaza is the world's largest concentration camp. If Gaza fishermen go out into the Med to catch fish they are torpedoed or riddled by Israeli gunboats. The Israeli MO is to completely ethnically cleanse all Arabs from the Med to the Jordan River and from the Litani River (inside Lebanon) to the Red Sea.
Anyone who fights back against genocide must be labelled a "terrorist" and it's a great excuse to kill thousands more Palestinians.

Firing hundreds of rockets at civilians randomly is not fighting back and IS terrorism as plain as can be.

You are trying to justify purposely attacking civilians which is a war crime.

Leftist

Deleted User wrote: »

Firing hundreds of rockets at civilians randomly is not fighting back and IS terrorism as plain as can be.

You are trying to justify purposely attacking civilians which is a war crime.

how do you expect them to fight back? with fighter jets and tanks they make out of rubble ala the a-team?

if it is ''terrorism as plain as can be'' then so are the israelis, just with far superior fire power.

gbee

FionnMcCool87 wrote: »

Where is Isreal?

Liberty Street & Church Street
New York, NY 10006

gbee

Deleted User wrote: »

Firing hundreds of rockets at civilians randomly is not fighting back and IS terrorism as plain as can be.

Sadly, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, The Congo, Somalia, Northern Ireland and most of the Middle East, suggests that there is no difference between uniformed and non uniform combatants.

biko

Injured man miraculously walks again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDaw

fasttalkerchat

biko wrote: »

Injured man miraculously walks again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-qSaHKzDaw

Haha cracker! He could get a game in the premiership.

barbiegirl

The longer this goes on the more I begin to wish that the current state of Israel was raised from the map. I am no apologist for the Arabs and detest some of their policies and laws, however the Zionists seem to have learned far too much from their agressors in the 2nd world war.

I have no issue, and I want to make that quite clear, with Jewish people, their religion or right to worship as they see fit.

I have a massive issue with ANY state who believes today that they have the right to take any other mans property because of his religion ethnicity, is this familiar to these people http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/reparations.html, with a state that locks people away and treats them as second class citizens based on their ethnicity, http://www.jewishhistory.org.il/history.php?startyear=1930&endyear=1939, that forces a people into a ghetto justifying it by saying they are a risk to the state, an excuse commonly used in World War II http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lvov_Ghetto.

There is no excuse, they have totally and completely used up any goodwill. I feel sick when I look at the Holocost and my heart breaks. But as a human I have the same reaction to the Israeli racist, violent, disgusting policies.

As to the well they fire rockets at us and explode bombs. Yes they do. Israel is founded on their land, their farms, their property. Israel is the agressor and always has been. Ever wondered why Einstein refused presidency of Israel it was because he disliked the Zionist ideals which are as bad if not worse that strict Muslim ones.

Israel you disgust me.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012



!!

Yes the Palestinian weaponry is astounding and causing such devastation :rolleyes:
They might as well be throwing bangers.
Meanwhile the Israelis can wipe out a whole school with one missile such is their accuracy.

gallag

Seaneh wrote: »

You actually think Israel is stupid enough to actually use a Nuke? Don't be daft.

Yes, if not why would they have them? If all Israels neighbors were on the verge of crushing them then of course they would use them. That's why there is no motivation to "win" a war with Israel.
If you think that if Israel was losing on every front and hours away from Arabs taking control and not use their last resort weapons then you are Mabey a wee bit daft?

c_man

tayto lover wrote: »

They might as well be throwing bangers.

They do kill people though, and undoubtably would have a higher casualty rate were it not for the early warning system in place.

I find the complete dismissal of the rockets coming from Gaza by elements here odd.



Btw before someone goes labelling me a pro-Israel nutter, I think the bombardment at the moment is sickening.

tayto lover

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes the Palestinian weaponry is astounding and causing such devastation :rolleyes:
They might as well be throwing bangers.
Meanwhile the Israelis can wipe out a whole school with one missile such is their accuracy.

yeah Qassam rockets and Grad Rockets are quite lethal.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/9-years_old_Israeli_boy_Osher_Twito_copes_with_lost_of_his_leg_after_Qassam_exploded_next_to_him_in_Sderot_Israel.jpg

and some of them contain white phosphorous warheads. The injuries and deaths are lower on the Israeli side because they have good rocket defences and bunkers and early warning systems.

srsly78

c_man wrote: »

They do kill people though, and undoubtably would have a higher casualty rate were it not for the early warning system in place.

I find the complete dismissal of the rockets coming from Gaza by elements here odd.



Btw before someone goes labelling me a pro-Israel nutter, I think the bombardment at the moment is sickening.

They have more than an early warning system, they have a missile defence system called Iron Dome. There are some pretty cool videos up of it in action.

SafeSurfer

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah Qassam rockets and Grad Rockets are quite lethal.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/81/9-years_old_Israeli_boy_Osher_Twito_copes_with_lost_of_his_leg_after_Qassam_exploded_next_to_him_in_Sderot_Israel.jpg

and some of them contain white phosphorous warheads. The injuries and deaths are lower on the Israeli side because they have good rocket defences and bunkers and early warning systems.

What you forgot to mention was that in the case of the 5 rockets fired on Israel that contained white phosphorous, the white phosphorous was scavenged from some of the thousands of warheads Israel fired into Gaza during operation Cast Lead.

gallag

Did isreal steal land?


The scenes flashed across the TV screens: tens of thousands of Arab troops massing on Israel's borders, frenzied demonstrations in every Arab capital demanding the demise of the Jewish state, the leaders of the Soviet bloc proclaiming unqualified support for Arab war aims while the French -- Israel's only ally -- abruptly changed sides. "Our objective is the freeing of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist existence," declared the Syrian chief of staff, while the Iraqi president proclaimed, "Our goal is clear -- to wipe Israel off the face of the map." Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser, who ousted U.N. peacekeepers from the Egypt-Israel border and blockaded Israeli shipping through the Straits of Tiran, foresaw a "total war . . . aimed at Israel's destruction." Bracing themselves for the onslaught, Israelis called up their army reserve, hoarded gas masks, and dug trenches and thousands of graves. Yet even these preparations seemed insufficient. "We shall destroy Israel and prepare boats to deport the survivors," the Palestine Liberation Organization pledged, "if there are any."Israel did not wait to see if Arab leaders would fulfill their promises. On June 5, 1967 the Israelis struck. In an attack lasting a little over an hour, the Israeli air force destroyed more than 250 Egyptian planes, and Israeli ground forces broke through Egyptian lines in Sinai. Israel had urged Jordan to stay out of the war, but Jordanian artillery began shelling West Jerusalem and suburban Tel Aviv, and Jordanian warplanes struck Israeli coastal cities. From atop the Golan Heights, Syrian gunners rained thousands of shells onto Israeli farms in Galilee. Though faced with a multi-front war, the Israelis fought vigorously, first driving the Egyptians out of Sinai and Gaza and the Jordanians out of the West Bank and Jerusalem. They then silenced the Syrian guns and captured the Golan Heights. In six extraordinary days, Israel's citizen soldiers had defeated three major Arab armies and captured territories four times the size of pre-1967 Israel.

The way I see it is they ganged up on Israel with many of the leaders stating their goal to wipe Israel of the map, they lost and Israel took a bit of their land to provide safer boarders further from their capital, call it the spoils of war for the winner of the risk of war for the looser. Now to this very day the leaders of hostile countries still want to wipe them from the map (while trying to get nukes) and every day they send multiple rockets with the sole intention of killing civilians.