Isreal at war. Many comentators egging them on.

Rhys Essien

Dont know how true but reports saying an Israeli aircraft shot down over Gaza.

Also Israelis are after bombing a mosque.

Rhys Essien

Clashes now breaking out in the West Bank and Jerusalem.

SafeSurfer

jasonmcco wrote: »

Israel started war to grab land to create a border which protected them from the arabs and it's hard to argue against the logic behind doing so.

Would you live in a muslim country?
Either will the Jews and i for one wouldn't blame them for making such a wise decision.

Jews chose to move to a Muslim country. In their millions.

gbee

2 rockets land outside of Jerusalem; no injuries, damage reported - @Jerusalem_Post

Rhys Essien

Israeli spokesperson "There will be no ground invasion of Gaza as it will cost us dearly".

They are getting too much resistance.

gbee

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Jews chose to move to a Muslim country. In their millions.

Not quite, after the WWII they were given these lands to call their own. Most of the Jews moved to a Jewish State in the following years. That's the legalities of it. Right or wrong is another issue, but they moved over thirty years to a Jewish State.

SafeSurfer

gbee wrote: »

Not quite, after the WWII they were given these lands to call their own. Most of the Jews moved to a Jewish State in the following years. That's the legalities of it. Right or wrong is another issue, but they moved over thirty years to a Jewish State.

By 1948, the population had risen to 1,900,000, of whom 68% were Arabs, and 32% were Jews (UNSCOP report, including bedouin).

wes

gbee wrote: »

Not quite, after the WWII they were given these lands to call their own.

Zionists started arriving in Palestine long before WWII.

Also, you can't give something that doesn't belong to you, hence why there was a conflict. No, one gave a crap what the Palestinians wanted and ran rough shod over them.

gbee wrote: »

Most of the Jews moved to a Jewish State in the following years. That's the legalities of it. Right or wrong is another issue, but they moved over thirty years to a Jewish State.

Except that during 1948, the started a campaign to kick out the Palestinians, which was hardly legal by an definition. So its not like Israel has ever cared what was or what was not legal.

flyswatter

Who has been firing the rockets into Tel Aviv? Is it the military wing of Hamas or other groups?

Nodin

jasonmcco wrote: »

Apostasy is a good reason to side with the Israelis no matter what they do to muslims.
........

Never heard of the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" kind of thing?

jasonmcco wrote: »

Israel started war to grab land to create a border which protected them from the arabs and it's hard to argue against the logic behind doing so........

...bit odd they put their own civillians in it then, really.

gbee

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak expands call-up of reserve soldiers, spokesman says - @AFP

Israel sending reinforcements, including this tank, toward #Gaza http://t.co/TGSlSe5y

squod

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Israeli spokesperson "There will be no ground invasion of Gaza ........

If that was a politician talking I'd bet my house on an invasion in the next two days.

smurgen

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Not to mention the disastrous outcome of a softer approach from Israel towards her neighbours prior to the Yom Kippur war. They refused to react swiftly and annihilate the neighbouring armies despite reports that a strike was imminent and within a few days they were very close to losing everything.

The roots of Israeli aggression are a product of their history and current environment. Give the hardline arabs an inch and they will take a mile - why? Because they are usually led by lunatics.

wjat a stupid post, you could say the same for the Israeli's. Netanyahu is a fanatic imo

Principal Skinner

smurgen wrote: »

wjat a stupid post, you could say the same for the Israeli's. Netanyahu is a fanatic imo

He is not a fanatic, hes merely defending the right of his people to live without being bombarded by rockets. It's all very well to sit behind your computer screen and look down on the actions of the israelis but what would YOU do if for example wales were firing hundreds of rockets into Ireland? Sit back and let it happen? Or try and destroy their launch sites?

gbee

Iran has removed nuclear fuel from core of Bushehr reactor, IAEA says, gives no reason - @Reuters

Have not read this story it might had happened months ago. But.

RainMaker

"Israel is the ancestral homeland of the Jews and was promised to them by God - at least that is the accepted Judeo-Christian version of events. The Islamic tradition says the land was promised to Ishmael, but that version of events only came along around 600 A.D, so really it seems like nothing more than an attempt to re-write history."

I just mention that to highlight the fact that the troubles in those territories pre-dates the creation of the Israeli state and the 1967 war by a long way!

The fact is Jewish people have been forced out of Israel many times in the past and effectively WW2/Holocaust acted as the final straw. I have often argued in the past myself that as a result of the suffering they experienced during WW2 they should know better than to treat a people the way Palestine is treated.
Then again they have been persecuted down through the centuries in Europe and nobody ever acted to try and save them so they have taken a hard line in defending themselves now - even if that makes them the aggressors.
So if we want to point the finger of blame, we should take a look at ourselves as well really - I doubt too many people were upset when Jewish refugees were refused asylum in Ireland during WW2. Basically European society over the centuries created the monster we have now - if Israel was some guy on the street threatening people, lashing out at others, etc people would make excuses - the usual excuses i.e. society, bad parents, abuse at home, etc Well imagine what centuries of victimization is going to do to the psyche of a people.

I honestly believe there is no desire for lasting peace on either side - whenever it's even been close in the past, it just seem to inspire extremists on both sides to come out of the woodwork.
Both sides need to forget the past completely and work towards a new state where both sides can live in peace without the threat of violence, but I think both sides would just prefer the other did not exist and seem intent on trying to create that reality.

Rhys Essien

Principal Skinner wrote: »

He is not a fanatic, hes merely defending the right of his people to live without being bombarded by rockets. It's all very well to sit behind your computer screen and look down on the actions of the israelis but what would YOU do if for example wales were firing hundreds of rockets into Ireland? Sit back and let it happen? Or try and destroy their launch sites?

Will you wake up and ask yourself what is the root cause of the problem.

If you and your family were locked in a cage,would you be happy to stay there or would you try and fight your way out.

Take off the bloody blinkers.

Gaza Strip = Biggest open air prison on Earth.

wes

gbee wrote: »

Iran has removed nuclear fuel from core of Bushehr reactor, IAEA says, gives no reason - @Reuters

Have not read this story it might had happened months ago. But.

If I remember that was a confidence building measure for the ongoing negotiations in regards to the nuclear program.

SafeSurfer

Principal Skinner wrote: »

He is not a fanatic, hes merely defending the right of his people to live without being bombarded by rockets. It's all very well to sit behind your computer screen and look down on the actions of the israelis but what would YOU do if for example wales were firing hundreds of rockets into Ireland? Sit back and let it happen? Or try and destroy their launch sites?

I would probably ask myself why is Wales firing rockets at us.

golden lane

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Will you wake up and ask yourself what is the root cause of the problem.

If you and your family were locked in a cage,would you be happy to stay there or would you try and fight your way out.

Take off the bloody blinkers.

Gaza Strip = Biggest open air prison on Earth.

most expensive one too.....

but, look up and down your own street....who really cares whether you lose your house or not......

it is a real world........fantasy solutions wont work......there must be power....

gbee

RainMaker wrote: »

I honestly believe there is no desire for lasting peace on either side - .

It's hard to call history, many of the Jewish stories are not supported in history, the slavery in Egypt, the conquering and burning of former Jewish lands in the formation of the state.

It would seem that the Jews were dispossessed more often than they were in tenancy though. They are great story tellers though, everything is exaggeration, and expansive, if they lived somewhere for a hundred years, they lived there since God put them on the Earth and so on.

Israel was created to be a military buffer, little more than that.

tayto lover

The slain Hamas leader was a very important player in the peace negotiations which were ongoing and backed by Egypt. Benjamin Netanyahu of course wants to be re-elected in the forthcoming elections and if he can manufacture another Israeli attack inside Palestine then as usual he will receive the majority of votes from the Israeli voters. Nothing like an attack on the state of Palestine to get you re-elected in Israel.

Principal Skinner

Rhys Essien wrote: »

Will you wake up and ask yourself what is the root cause of the problem.

If you and your family were locked in a cage,would you be happy to stay there or would you try and fight your way out.

Take off the bloody blinkers.

Gaza Strip = Biggest open air prison on Earth.

The situation is only like that because every time the Israelis give up some territory in exchange for some peace they get it thrown back in their face. Israel have given up gaza strip before and got attacked from it constantly (still do). They have offered to give juseralem to the palestinians but they wouldnt accept anything but all of Israel.

You tell me any other country who have offered to give up such a historically and spiritually significant place to them in exchange for peace

Nodin

Principal Skinner wrote: »

......They have offered to give juseralem to the palestinians but they wouldnt accept anything but all of Israel.
..................

Really? When did this take place? A source if you would....

wes

Principal Skinner wrote: »

The situation is only like that because every time the Israelis give up some territory in exchange for some peace they get it thrown back in their face. Israel have given up gaza strip before and got attacked from it constantly (still do).

You leave out the part, where they went and grabbed a bunch of land in the West Bank right after "leaving" Gaza. So they didn't really give anything, they just grabbed some more land in a far more convenient location for them.

Of course, they didn't really leave Gaza, and they always maintained control over there borders, air space etc.

Principal Skinner wrote: »

They have offered to give juseralem to the palestinians but they wouldnt accept anything but all of Israel.

No, they haven't made such an offer. If you have any idea about the conflict, you would know Israels stance is that Jerusalem remain undivided, and in there hands. They have also annexed East Jerusalem as well. So you claims is simple fiction.

Principal Skinner wrote: »

You tell me any other country who have offered to give up such a historically and spiritually significant place to them in exchange for peace

Well, the offer your talking about is fictional.......

barbiegirl

Principal Skinner wrote: »

You tell me any other country who have offered to give up such a historically and spiritually significant place to them in exchange for peace

I would just point out that Jerusalem and most of Israel is historically and spiritually significant to Jews, Christians and Muslims. Why should we expect Palestinians to give it up.

the_syco

You attack Israel... wtf do you think is going to happen?

mike65

definition of madness - doing the same thing time after time and yet expecting to get a different result.

Shryke

mike65 wrote: »

definition of madness - doing the same thing time after time and yet expecting to get a different result.

Religious zealotry is madness refined down to an art form.

tayto lover

mike65 wrote: »

definition of madness - doing the same thing time after time and yet expecting to get a different result.

Yes that can be said for both sides.

gbee

UN chief Ban says rocket attacks 'unacceptable,' urges 'maximum restraint' by Israel, spokesman says - @Reuters

gbee

tayto lover wrote: »

Yes that can be said for both sides.

No, now to be fair, I think there is a very clear aggressor here. The Palestinians are metaphorically poking a T-Rex with a twig.

The ultimate solution will eventually follow.

Intensive Care Bear

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEzvhvOcWEs&feature=share

golden lane

it is sad......but if they don't get israel to retaliate.......the world will forget about them....

their cause has become a nuisance.....

GalwayGuy2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEzvh...&feature=share

Eh, I don't condemn Isreal because it is allied with America, but that is probably the most one-sided video I've ever seen in my life.

tayto lover

gbee wrote: »

No, now to be fair, I think there is a very clear aggressor here. The Palestinians are metaphorically poking a T-Rex with a twig.

The ultimate solution will eventually follow.

The ultimate solution will involve more than Israel and Palestine. Maybe that is what's intended now as the final solution. The whole region is a powder-keg. Don't rule out Israel again striking first either just like in '67 but this time it could target Iran as she poses the major threat.

gbee

Israeli army closes 3 roads that lead to, or border the Gaza Strip - @Reuters

gbee

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Eh, I don't condemn Isreal because it is allied with America, but that is probably the most one-sided video I've ever seen in my life.

I thought it was brutally factual.

BlaasForRafa

tayto lover wrote: »

The ultimate solution will involve more than Israel and Palestine. Maybe that is what's intended now as the final solution. The whole region is a powder-keg. Don't rule out Israel again striking first either just like in '67 but this time it could target Iran as she poses the major threat.

Using phrases like "final solution" with regards to issues about jews and israel isn't the best choice of words really.

Nodin

gbee wrote: »

I thought it was brutally factual.

It's a crock of shite that ignores the expansion in the West bank etc.

BlaasForRafa

gbee wrote: »

I thought it was brutally factual.

There is a lot of truth in it but he does leave out the whole West Bank settlements issue, in fact he completely ignores it and its a massive issue.

tayto lover

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Using phrases like "final solution" with regards to issues about jews and israel isn't the best choice of words really.

I think you should read the posts properly before you jump in.
I was responding to a poster who used it.
What was wrong with it anyway and it was "ultimate solution"?

BlaasForRafa

tayto lover wrote: »

I think you should read the posts properly before you jump in.
I was responding to a poster who used it.
What was wrong with it anyway and it was "ultimate solution"?

I did read your post, maybe you should read it eh? "Maybe that is what's intended now as the final solution."

And before you rile up, I'm not saying you advocate the genocide of jews, it was sort of a joke about using a bad choice of words, I figured you'd get it without the need for a smiley, my bad.

Intensive Care Bear

Nodin wrote: »

It's a crock of shite that ignores the expansion in the West bank etc.

Which parts are lies? I wouldn't be as well read as some of the posters here regarding the middle east and i would genuinely like to know.

tayto lover

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

I did read your post, maybe you should read it eh? "Maybe that is what's intended now as the final solution."

And before you rile up, I'm not saying you advocate the genocide of jews, it was sort of a joke about using a bad choice of words, I figured you'd get it without the need for a smiley, my bad.

Alright then. I'll let you off this time so. There's a smiley for you

BlaasForRafa

tayto lover wrote: »

Alright then. I'll let you off this time so. There's a smiley for you

Really in AH tradition I should have called you a fascist, would have gotten at least 3 pages of argument out of that

Nodin

1210m5g wrote: »

Which parts are lies? I wouldn't be as well read as some of the posters here regarding the middle east and i would genuinely like to know.

...you don't think the settlements and expanison into the West Bank and Arab east jersualem play a part...? ...lumping countries with peace treaties with Israel in with those that don't recognise it...? Putting the entire blame on the arab side?

tayto lover

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Really in AH tradition I should have called you a fascist, would have gotten at least 3 pages of argument out of that

Yes indeed.
But I don't suit a moustache.
Whatever happens in the Middle East they'd want to get a move on. Dec 21st is fast approaching.

gbee

tayto lover wrote: »

Whatever happens in the Middle East they'd want to get a move on. Dec 21st is fast approaching.

Ye, a six day war would do nicely now, double the price of petrol and Iran nuked and a Happy Christmas to everyone else.

Intensive Care Bear

Nodin wrote: »

...you don't think the settlements and expanison into the West Bank and Arab east jersualem play a part...? ...lumping countries with peace treaties with Israel in with those that don't recognise it...? Putting the entire blame on the arab side?

Of course i think they play a massive part, i was just wondering was anything that was claimed in the video in fact bullsh*t.