dairy bulls

mahoney_j

whelan1 wrote: »

so what are ye going to use? my plan is
heifers lhz and ygb
cows abo, ksk, kyz , lhz
and then to be really bold i will use some jersey on my highest yielding cows zcd and okm
then br/fr stock bull can put the few that are not in calf in calf

Be carefull with lhz on heifers,I used a fair bit of hm last year on heifers and cows and the calves are generally on the big side and can carry up to 2 and a bit weeks with there time,On the jersey on your high yielders my advice is dont do it.Have a good look at the ebi list and just pick a good black and white bull with a low or slightly negative pd for milk.When u say high yielders what sort of yield are u talking about??for me a high yielder is a nything over 1700 gallons.Using jersey or nor red on anything below this will have a big negative impact on cow type and milk and solid yield.The feedback im getting from the icbf and some ai companies this spring is that a lot of guys now have super fertile cows but thats about it,their yields have fell way off which is a big thing with the crossbred ainmal.I currently have 7 bull calves been geneomically tested after 64 calvings and am all holstein freisan and have a milk pd of plus 166.Hopefully one of these will be bought by one of the ai companies but its a long shot

stanflt

whelan you should use JKF instead of jersey

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Be carefull with lhz on heifers,I used a fair bit of hm last year on heifers and cows and the calves are generally on the big side and can carry up to 2 and a bit weeks with there time,On the jersey on your high yielders my advice is dont do it.Have a good look at the ebi list and just pick a good black and white bull with a low or slightly negative pd for milk.When u say high yielders what sort of yield are u talking about??for me a high yielder is a nything over 1700 gallons.Using jersey or nor red on anything below this will have a big negative impact on cow type and milk and solid yield.The feedback im getting from the icbf and some ai companies this spring is that a lot of guys now have super fertile cows but thats about it,their yields have fell way off which is a big thing with the crossbred ainmal.I currently have 7 bull calves been geneomically tested after 64 calvings and am all holstein freisan and have a milk pd of plus 166.Hopefully one of these will be bought by one of the ai companies but its a long shot

But we never got to see your profit monitor:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D when we were discussing it

whelan1

stanflt wrote: »

whelan you should use JKF instead of jersey

will have a look at him later ta

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

But we never got to see your profit monitor:rolleyes::rolleyes::D:D when we were discussing it

De laval I will never discuss my profit monitor on a public forum like this and I think anyone that dose is doing all dairy farmers a disservice,it is a bug bear of mine and our discussion group that info from profit monitors should ever make it past our group or Tegasc facilitator.our reason been that's the big supermarket chains etc will use this info against coops and farmers to pull prices back.getting back on topic we were discussing dairy bulls wasn't it???.simply gave my opinion and feedback I've got this spring from 2 ai companies.also on profit monitor results I've mine done since mid jan and was happy with some aspects but there is room for improvement on my meal bill in particular which was higher than I'd like last year but if I didn't feed it cows wouldn't be in as good shape as they are,probably would of struggled with conception rates too(started calving late Han and will be finished for 08 April)so I feel it was justified

bogman_bass

Timmaay wrote: »

Shame that PG don't have more 1/2 or 3/4 bred JEx bulls, I saw afew of the calves that my neighbour got out of PG crossbreds last year, some smashing looking calves! I think we were discussing about them afew pages back in this thread there before!

New x-bred bull - RAZ http://http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/863505179

mahoney_j

Just ran herd plus sire advice programme after picking my bull team and checking availability with my ai manGoing with the following bulls on my cows
abo
xrb
sze
ztg
s1137
oph
Heifers getting
psz
hmy
xrb

nICE BLEND of ebi milk yield ,Solids and typeHeres hopeing for a heap of heifers next spring!

whelan1

hows heat detection going and when are ye planning on starting serving?

case 5150

whelan1 wrote: »

hows heat detection going and when are ye planning on starting serving?

dont do any pre breeding detection, if a cow jumps out in front i will jot her number down but dont go to much rounds as after 6 weeks of ai i find i fed up looking out

start around 25th april

Timmaay

Slapped some tailpaint on just after paddys day, probably start breeding from April 20th. I've being pushing a good few of the dec and jan calvers over this year, some of them bulling, would prefer more but considering they are still in at night on silage, and some with low BSCs its to be expected. I'm fairly sure all of the JEx heifers have been in heat, should be zero issue with them! I'd only check the tailpaint every few days, certainly have been missing afew heats!

Actually Whelan, we were taking about solids from bulls on another thread the other day, you mentioned that you pick ones with more than 30kg of combined solids, I only read up that on the A+B-C payment, Protein gets a massive weighting over fat, I think its 6 times more, so is considerably more valuable. In that case it certainly would make sense to focus in on the protein kgs, instead of just the combined f+p figures, plenty of bulls with say 25kg fat but only 5 protein. Maybe I'm wrong with this and its all dietary, but my understanding is if you don't have the potential protein kgs in the genetics then it doesn't matter how good the diet is, the cow wont give you the production.

oooge1

my lot for this mating are...abo pbm ffs gfs and on the heifers il use bsj (norwegian) and lkq (jersey)...i never had it so easy calving heifers than this year when i used nr and a je on them.. definitely easier that the hereford bull!!

whelan1

oooge1 wrote: »

my lot for this mating are...abo pbm ffs gfs and on the heifers il use bsj (norwegian) and lkq (jersey)...i never had it so easy calving heifers than this year when i used nr and a je on them.. definitely easier that the hereford bull!!

out of interest are ye all using genomic or are ye using some proven too

delaval

whelan1 wrote: »

hows heat detection going and when are ye planning on starting serving?

Will start breeding after bank holiday w/end heifers 1 week before. Will not paint cows till first day of ai.

RobertKK

Timmaay wrote: »

Slapped some tailpaint on just after paddys day, probably start breeding from April 20th. I've being pushing a good few of the dec and jan calvers over this year, some of them bulling, would prefer more but considering they are still in at night on silage, and some with low BSCs its to be expected. I'm fairly sure all of the JEx heifers have been in heat, should be zero issue with them! I'd only check the tailpaint every few days, certainly have been missing afew heats!

Actually Whelan, we were taking about solids from bulls on another thread the other day, you mentioned that you pick ones with more than 30kg of combined solids, I only read up that on the A+B-C payment, Protein gets a massive weighting over fat, I think its 6 times more, so is considerably more valuable. In that case it certainly would make sense to focus in on the protein kgs, instead of just the combined f+p figures, plenty of bulls with say 25kg fat but only 5 protein. Maybe I'm wrong with this and its all dietary, but my understanding is if you don't have the potential protein kgs in the genetics then it doesn't matter how good the diet is, the cow wont give you the production.

Isn't it the protein % that matters, given if a bull was +400KG for milk, it would need higher protein KG to compensate and to give the higher protein % increase, while a bull with say +100KG of milk would need less KG of protein to give the same effect to the milk in terms of protein %?.

The KG side is just for the amount of milk a cow produces, the % figures of the bull are what matters for increasing the milk price you get paid.

Is this right?

whelan1

just looking at a few bulls new proofs lhz has gone up again as has ksk.... didnt look at too many more anyone else notice any other ones?

Timmaay

http://www.icbf.com/taurus/ai_application/active_bull_list.php?Purpose=M

Few changes, PBM and ABO both down alittle, but still have excellent production figures. I've never heard or used this bull, but XRB up to 292 now and is PGs top bull, mostly due to his fert subindex, production not bad either though, I might use afew of his straws in the winter. JKF up also and has great production values also, I'll probably use more of him aswell.

RobertKK

WLY stays on top.
KXV had a big fall from 271 to 198.
JKF gone up to 281 and the top bull to have no negative figures for any trait.
5 bulls over 300 EBI.

whelan1

that was some fall for kxv, why was that?

whelan1

kyz went from 254 to 219

RobertKK

whelan1 wrote: »

that was some fall for kxv, why was that?

Fertility went from 171 to 123
Milk fell by 9
Health fell by 11
Maintenance by 5

Looking at his previous evaluations, it is like they tested a different bull, but the reliability figure this time is much higher.
http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/671031281

Going forward...

That's what happens when daughters are added to genomic proofs I guess. AXN dropped €40 also.

bogman_bass

didnt happen with LHZ

mahoney_j

bogman_bass wrote: »

didnt happen with LHZ

I'd still rate Axn higher than lhz.find lhz Calves very big and carry a week plus with time.axn calves cAlve earlier and with more ease and have much more potential IMO

Going forward...

AXN's nosedive has brought him into the pack of the other Goldwyn x Oman sons. GZG stands out amongst them still, went up a bit to €211.

LHZ's liner. Why is he even still alive?

bogman_bass

He lasted way better than AXN did. EBI's aren't the be all and end all but dont go beleiving that linears are the Gospel either!

RobertKK

AXN was 157 12 months ago and then had fallen too.

Yeah some daughter proofs coming in alright, for KXV though, the milk section of the EBI was very wrong.
Went from +146kg to -104Kg
Kg's of Protein and fat fell accordingly but the bull improved with PR and BF percentages.

It is all very interesting.

whelan1

what would be your pick for using for autumn calving for next year? have used a good bit of abo/pbm/ lhz

stanflt

whelan1 wrote: »

what would be your pick for using for autumn calving for next year? have used a good bit of abo/pbm/ lhz

pkr pkx zma pbm abo ksk rpz ocp wly jkf ygb sze xpd aac dgc lhz bgj just for starters

funny man

Drop your ABO IMO as conception rates are poor from him.

Timmaay

Hmm I was wondering about that, I must have used him on 10/15 cows, and only 2 held. Straws were hard to get anyways, he was a very poor producer. I'll use PBM, KSK, JKF again, XRB is top of the progress EBI list now at 292, production is fairly decent at +29kg MS, but very high fertility, might throw him into afew of the cows with highish CIs.

mf240

Thought cows held really well to pbm.

whelan1

mf240 wrote: »

Thought cows held really well to pbm.

yup , got a good few heifer calves from him, also got a couple abo, must check the serves from last year on repeats from abo

stanflt

Scanned yesterday and have 24 preg from 40 serves of abo

whelan1

stanflt wrote: »

Scanned yesterday and have 24 preg from 40 serves of abo

Have 5 abo heifer calves and 8 pbms so far prefer the pbm calves

bogman_bass

funny man wrote: »

Drop your ABO IMO as conception rates are poor from him.

according to who?

funny man

Call PG and ask, they will tell you his figures are below some of the other bulls mentioned above. all i'm saying he is alot worse than that.

stanflt

funny man wrote: »

Call PG and ask, they will tell you his figures are below some of the other bulls mentioned above. all i'm saying he is alot worse than that.

If any bull has a lower than average conception rate he is not allowed to marketed under the rules of the Irish breeding program

I think it's minus 10%

jersey101

Friend of mine is a farm manager student on the farm in waterford that LHZ came from. Said his mother is an ugly lookin yoke ha

Milked out

stanflt wrote: »

If any bull has a lower than average conception rate he is not allowed to marketed under the rules of the Irish breeding program

I think it's minus 10%

Is that what happened to LDU?? he was high in the list for a bit but wasn't sold after his first year I think

RobertKK

Milked out wrote: »

Is that what happened to LDU?? he was high in the list for a bit but wasn't sold after his first year I think

Maybe semen stocks were low when the IBR outbreak happened.

bogman_bass

funny man wrote: »

Call PG and ask, they will tell you his figures are below some of the other bulls mentioned above. all i'm saying he is alot worse than that.

ah I'd know one or two lads there alright. pretty sure his conception rates are about average

funny man

bogman_bass wrote: »

ah I'd know one or two lads there alright. pretty sure his conception rates are about average

pretty sure there is a problem, but op here got good results from him.

whelan1

A lad was saying today a local farmer had used either 90 sexed semen straws or had 90 cows calving to sexed semen anyways he only had 1 bull calf

Timmaay

How much are sexed straws

jaymla627

Timmaay wrote: »

How much are sexed straws

35-50 euro depending on bulls etc.... the main sticking point with sexed semen is the really top good bulls are never sexed cause it destroys to much conventional semen in the process of making it, so your left with genomic bulls and your normal run of the mill bulls.

td5man

whelan1 wrote: »

A lad was saying today a local farmer had used either 90 sexed semen straws or had 90 cows calving to sexed semen anyways he only had 1 bull calf

There were a lot of repeats last year in cows served with sexed semen, wonder was it last years weather that was to blame? Were conception rates any better this year?

Milked out

I am considering using sexed semen on my autumn maiden heifers. Did anyone here use sexed semen if so how did ye get on?? Would be looking for bulls +ve on prot, with kgs of milk around the 180 mark with as high a fert figure as possible. May AI the heifers 2 weeks earlier to cover a bit against possible lower conception rates

Timmaay

What AI company you with? Progressive/Munster have DGY: http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/900174821 , pure HO and fairly milky at +327, but decent fertility/EBI. Fat isn't great, but very good protein, and the A+B-C gives much bigger weight to protein. I think I'll use afew of his sexed straws on the JExs and heifers next year. Anyone got any experience with him?

Milked out

Timmaay wrote: »

What AI company you with? Progressive/Munster have DGY: http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/900174821 , pure HO and fairly milky at +327, but decent fertility/EBI. Fat isn't great, but very good protein, and the A+B-C gives much bigger weight to protein. I think I'll use afew of his sexed straws on the JExs and heifers next year. Anyone got any experience with him?

Used conventional semen off him last year, Heifers had no problem calving his calves anyway but have none milking yet. I use Munster but am doing DIY so getting straws from other companies is no big deal, they all come selling anyways. The munster rep was saying to use them on the heifers with highest fert index but once they are in good condition and bulling well I'll try them all. Do you DIY or would you get the AI man out for the sexed semen??

case 956

have 8 cows/heifers to bull for calving next autumn, when is the right time to bull these and what bulls should I use these are holisteny types