F****n Dublin Bus!!!

Victor_Meldrew

LFCFan wrote:

And where exactly did I say I'd give him a bollocking? I love the way people on Boards.ie have a habit of reading all sorts into people's posts to suit their own reply.

Where did I say you did?

dolles98

Thanks for that Cdebru. It would be a better idea for dublin bus to let the passengers know about timetable changes! But what's new???

I'll definatley be writting to head office and if I get the number for Harristown Garage they'll be getting on-the-spot complaints from me every time the bus doesn't turn up.

BCB

LFCFan wrote:

I love the way people on Boards.ie have a habit of reading all sorts into people's posts to suit their own reply

.

Unfortunately this is too true mate especially on that damn politics forum......... :mad:

Victor

BCB wrote:

Unfortunately this is too true mate especially on that damn politics forum......... :mad:

Back on topic please.

_Kaiser_

just found this thread...

Bus services in Blanchardstown have become atrocious.. since the 39s have been extended to Ongar, waiting times can easily be 30 mins+ regardless of day or time.

I can beat the original poster too... I once stood on the Clonsilla Road for 45 mins while 14!!!! buses passed heading to Clonsilla/Ongar with NONE coming back down.

Having gotten severly annoyed I started keeping track of fleet numbers and rang Phibsboro (Phil Donohue is the man down there you want) the next day to complain but the usual excuse of "traffic" was what was given, and even if they DO promise to investigate, the policy is that it's handled internally so you as a customer will not hear anything back anyway... a point confirmed to me when I rang the head office and, according to customer service, each garage is run as a seperate entity.

And to think I used to think the 27's were bad... there ya only have to deal with local scumbags and ignorant, abusive drivers (one of the few decent guy's on the route once told me they consider it a "problem route" in Clontarf and none of the more senior drivers will do it so you get stuck with the dregs of the garage) but it generally runs on time-ish.

For what it's worth tho, always have a note of the time, direction and fleet number if you're gonna try a complaint.. if theres no fleet number visible (fairly common) you can usually ID it by the last 3 numbers of the reg plate and type... all the newer single door double deckers are AV type, the older dual-door ones are RH/RA/RVs depending on year - yes, I know FAR too much about buses..the downside of having to get 6 a day for 5 years!)

parsi

I used work in Dublin back in the days when Bob Montgomery was in charge of Bus Atha Cliath. I got caught a few times by drivers stating I had given wrong fare (route 27 past Heuston) and the old "collect yiour change when getting off" routine (11) . Each time it happened I took the bus number and wrote in. Each time I got a multi-journey ticket back. Bob seemed to take no sh** from no-one which I'm sure suited the vast majority of drivers who did their job despite the atrocious timetabling etc.

As an aside I was talking to a Bus Eireann driver a few yeas ago who was complaining that the route timing for a certain intercity run was done on the basis of the Inspectors driving their staff car despite the fact that the Bus could only legally do 50mph but the staff car did the timings based on their maxspeed of 60mph...

Victor_Meldrew

I've been sat behind the driver several times on Bus Éireann coaches, which according to the speedo have been travelling at a great deal more than 50mph. My record so far is 75mph on a trip to Galway.

Still takes a hell of a lot longer than the advertised 3hrs 40 minutes though.

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote:

And to think I used to think the 27's were bad... there ya only have to deal with local scumbags and ignorant, abusive drivers (one of the few decent guy's on the route once told me they consider it a "problem route" in Clontarf and none of the more senior drivers will do it so you get stuck with the dregs of the garage) but it generally runs on time-ish.

by problem route he meant its the one that you are more likely to be assaulted or abused
your remark about dregs of the garage is insulting to the staff that do operate the route and shows your ignorance
Senior drivers are determined by lenght of service not how good or bad of a driver they are what you tend to get on the 27s is drivers who have not been driving for as long nothing to do with dregs
however that said in order to be marked in permanent on the 27s you would need to be a driver in dublin bus for at least 7 or 8 years and some of the drivers on the 27s have over 30 years service

Kaiser2000 wrote:

For what it's worth tho, always have a note of the time, direction and fleet number if you're gonna try a complaint.. if theres no fleet number visible (fairly common) you can usually ID it by the last 3 numbers of the reg plate and type... all the newer single door double deckers are AV type, the older dual-door ones are RH/RA/RVs depending on year - yes, I know FAR too much about buses..the downside of having to get 6 a day for 5 years!)

the last three digits are normally the fleet number however this does not always mean you will get the right bus
as you could have rh 123 and av 123 or ra 123 in the same garage better to get the whole reg number

_Kaiser_

by problem route he meant its the one that you are more likely to be assaulted or abused
your remark about dregs of the garage is insulting to the staff that do operate the route and shows your ignorance

Well now if being verbally abused ("what f'in business is it of yours?", f*k off!" etc) and actually threatened on one occasion by some (not all, hence my remark that there are a few decent drivers on the route) of these drivers when, as advised by staff in Clontarf depot themselves (Christie McDonald - depot operations as far as I recall - being one), challenging them at the time about their apparent lack of basic driving skills - speeding, slamming over speed ramps while passengers attempt to get downstairs etc - doesn't indicate staff quality at the lower end of the scale , then I don't know what does??!

I've worked in customer facing roles for over 7 years now and I can assure you that if I dealt with clients in the manner that some (again not all!) of DB staff do I would have been fired long ago. I accept that it's a tough job, but - to put it bluntly - if they can't handle the stress in a PROFESSIONAL manner, then I suggest they find alternative employment rather than abusing people who are helping to pay their wages!

I've reported such incidents several times I might add (and in writing on occasion) but gotten nowhere of course.. Another very annoying thing about some of the staff in DB is their refusal to identify themselves when asked (so that if a followup call is made you can reference the person you spoke to at the time).

Secondly, in reference to fleet numbers, I take your point but if you combine this with the route number and time you should be OK. Where NO fleet number is present (as is the case on a lot of the RH/RA class and some of the newer AV's..or it's hidden/scrawled in black marker above the driver's partition) is where the problem arise..personally I'd consider this akin to taxi's driving around without plates.

Finally, I assume you work for DB yourself (correct me if I'm wrong though) so perhaps rather than calling me names, you might suggest how customer complaints might better be raised AND addressed AND the customer subsequently updated (as opposed to the deafening silence that we generally seem to receive when we do so) instead?

(Edited for typo's and clarity)

John R

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Secondly, in reference to fleet numbers, I take your point but if you combine this with the route number and time you should be OK. Where NO fleet number is present (as is the case on a lot of the RH/RA class and some of the newer AV's..or it's hidden/scrawled in black marker above the driver's partition) is where the problem arise..personally I'd consider this akin to taxi's driving around without plates.

The fleet numbers are nothing like taxi plates, they are an internal reference for the company only. the reg number is the means by which anybody can identify the bus in question.
Taxi plates are to identify the car/driver as genuine licenced taxis, somehow I don't think there is a big problem with dodgy types in fake dublin buses out there.

John R

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

I've been sat behind the driver several times on Bus Éireann coaches, which according to the speedo have been travelling at a great deal more than 50mph. My record so far is 75mph on a trip to Galway.

Still takes a hell of a lot longer than the advertised 3hrs 40 minutes though.

They all should have speed restrictors fitted, they are usually set at around 60mph. Some of them are broken or incorrectly calibrated, far more common on older vehicles. It is probably not a high priority for maintenance and alot of drivers would not report it as a fault either. This is why having an old coach turn up for your journey is sometimes a blessing.

Some of the old coaches they used to have before speed restrictors became mandatory were very fast, I have several times been on one doing well over 90.

_Kaiser_

John R wrote:

The fleet numbers are nothing like taxi plates, they are an internal reference for the company only. the reg number is the means by which anybody can identify the bus in question.
Taxi plates are to identify the car/driver as genuine licenced taxis, somehow I don't think there is a big problem with dodgy types in fake dublin buses out there.

Well I was talking about for easy identification purposes when calling the depot really as opposed to the possibility of dodgy/fake buses out there - not always time to take down a full reg number as the bus pulls away.

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Finally, I assume you work for DB yourself (correct me if I'm wrong though) so perhaps rather than calling me names, you might suggest how customer complaints might better be raised AND addressed AND the customer subsequently updated (as opposed to the deafening silence that we generally seem to receive when we do so) instead?

(Edited for typo's and clarity)

I never called you any names but perhaps you have a chip on your shoulder and expect to be called names.Maybe your a little paranoid but it is a good example of how people can turn things and even believe them themselves

as to the second part of your question my main suggestion would involve a major clear out ot the existing management however this would not solve your problem but perhaps it should be made clear to people that without any suporting evidence there is not much that DB can do.I am not suggesting that customers should expect abuse or accept it

the problem that DB is faced with is that you say this hapened the driver says no it didn't usually there are no other independent witnesses to the event.
how would you deal with that situation
the fact is that some people that complain to dublin bus lie
a person who was not on the bus cant really tell for sure exactly who is telling the truth.
should DB just take the word of anyone who complains about their staff. without an independent witness there is not alot that DB can do without ending up in court for unfair dismissal
possibly the easiest way out of this is cameras but then they would not provide sound so it would be back to he said she said

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Well now if being verbally abused ("what f'in business is it of yours?", f*k off!" etc) and actually threatened on one occasion by some (not all, hence my remark that there are a few decent drivers on the route) of these drivers when, as advised by staff in Clontarf depot themselves (Christie McDonald - depot operations as far as I recall - being one), challenging them at the time about their apparent lack of basic driving skills - speeding, slamming over speed ramps while passengers attempt to get downstairs etc - doesn't indicate staff quality at the lower end of the scale , then I don't know what does??!

you stated that the dregs of the garage worked on the 27s
this is not true
what you tend to get is junior drivers however junior in relation to clontarf would be a driver with about 8 years driving
the senior drivers on this road would be people who dont mind working a difficult route
as for driving skills i would not excuse the behaviour you mentioned but i think you would accept that along with a section of the customers that use this route the particularly badly designed speed ramps on the glin road and the chicanes on the link rd make this a difficult road to drive.
but if you were treated in the manner you suggest my suggestion would be that you find an independent witness on the bus to verify your story other than that you are pissing against the wind i'am afraid.

_Kaiser_

cdebru wrote:

you stated that the dregs of the garage worked on the 27s
this is not true
what you tend to get is junior drivers however junior in relation to clontarf would be a driver with about 8 years driving
the senior drivers on this road would be people who dont mind working a difficult route
as for driving skills i would not excuse the behaviour you mentioned but i think you would accept that along with a section of the customers that use this route the particularly badly designed speed ramps on the glin road and the chicanes on the link rd make this a difficult road to drive.
but if you were treated in the manner you suggest my suggestion would be that you find an independent witness on the bus to verify your story other than that you are pissing against the wind i'am afraid.

I believe those last 8 words sum up exactly what most customers experienence when attempting to raise a complaint with DB - or on a larger scale, any (former) semi-state body in this country: CIE, eircom, the Gardai .. it's all the same unfortunately; for eircom, just check out the broadband/IOFFL sections of the Boards, and as for the Gardai, I could give several examples of my own experience which were raised properly and documented, or just check back through the papers of the last few years).

Anyway, back to the point. I agree that the ramps on Glin Road are particularly bad and of such a size that the only thing they do hinder is the buses. The one's around Northside SC are at least segmented but in either case, surely the onus is on the driver to adapt to the situation by slowing down/maneouvering the bus between the segments rather than just carrying on regardless?

Similarly, the fact that they are classed as "junior" drivers is still no excuse - as you agree yourself - for the behaviour I've described, but as you also rightly point out (and is a problem in general I've found) the problem is finding someone willing to "stand up and be counted" when it comes down to it.

Cameras would be an ideal solution but without audio or when (as is often the case) they're not working anyway, we must dismiss it. A possible solution then would be more undercover/plain clothes inspectors on the buses - particularly the "problem routes" - such as the 27 (last I heard I believe DB employed only 6 of these people?)

Finally, I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I'm not paranoid (don't think so anyway ), I just have a very low tolerance for incompetence and apathy in situations like this. I've lived in Holland you see and I KNOW therefore that public transport can be done SO much better than we do here (integrated ticketing since the mid-80s, buses that run on time, even timetables for each individual stop - as opposed to our useless system of telling people when it left the terminus - etc)

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote:

I believe those last 8 words sum up exactly what most customers experienence when attempting to raise a complaint with DB - or on a larger scale, any (former) semi-state body in this country: CIE, eircom, the Gardai .. it's all the same unfortunately; for eircom, just check out the broadband/IOFFL sections of the Boards, and as for the Gardai, I could give several examples of my own experience which were raised properly and documented, or just check back through the papers of the last few years).)

I agree I am not suggesting for one minute that the semi state sector does not need to be changed I just dont believe that privatising it is the way to change it as can be seen from any dealings with eircom

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Anyway, back to the point. I agree that the ramps on Glin Road are particularly bad and of such a size that the only thing they do hinder is the buses. The one's around Northside SC are at least segmented but in either case, surely the onus is on the driver to adapt to the situation by slowing down/maneouvering the bus between the segments rather than just carrying on regardless? )

I agree that driving over them regardless is wrong but the poor design does not help you will also notice that it depends on the bus type as well the newer AV type deal with these ramps much better
I can tell you that DB has complained on numerous ocassions to the city council about these but to no avail

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Similarly, the fact that they are classed as "junior" drivers is still no excuse - as you agree yourself - for the behaviour I've described, but as you also rightly point out (and is a problem in general I've found) the problem is finding someone willing to "stand up and be counted" when it comes down to it.)

I believe that the problem that you find on this route is at least partly due to a certain part of the clientele who use this service
some drivers who have been abused by these scumbags(beaten kicked spat on threatened etc) start to view all passengers who use that route as scumbags this is wrong but personally I think this maybe at least part of the problem.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Cameras would be an ideal solution but without audio or when (as is often the case) they're not working anyway, we must dismiss it. A possible solution then would be more undercover/plain clothes inspectors on the buses - particularly the "problem routes" - such as the 27 (last I heard I believe DB employed only 6 of these people?))

My own personal preference would be transport police independent of dublin bus
DB employ inspectors who monitor junior drivers or drivers with poor accident records in plain clothes.
they also from time to time put a plain clothes inspector on routes to catch people smoking
however none of these deal with the serious anti social behaviour that occurs on buses which IMO drives people away from using public transport and allows there to be problem routes.

Kaiser2000 wrote:

Finally, I don't have a chip on my shoulder and I'm not paranoid (don't think so anyway ), I just have a very low tolerance for incompetence and apathy in situations like this. I've lived in Holland you see and I KNOW therefore that public transport can be done SO much better than we do here (integrated ticketing since the mid-80s, buses that run on time, even timetables for each individual stop - as opposed to our useless system of telling people when it left the terminus - etc)

I lived in holland myself for a while and there is no reason why we cant have a public transport system as good as that
But it needs investment.

AngelofFire

The 49 bus is wholly inadaquate, the 49 serves tallaght south west which consists of Firhouse, Kiltipper and parts of Old Bawn. In the last 5 years the population has trebled, yet the frequency of buses has not increased. The only thing Dublin bus have done is re-route the bus service into the new estates, which in effect adds 20 minutes on to journey times on a good day the 49 comes once every half hour, on sundays it is every hour and 10 mins. Tallaght central which is serviced by the Luas, has a better developed bus service.

rainbow kirby

Agreed. The 49 makes baby Jesus cry. And why the hell does there have to be a black hole of 50 minutes between buses on weekday mornings? A lot of the time I'm in college at 1pm, and with this I'm either ridiculously early or else I miss that lecture. And on Sundays I start work at 11.30, the 49 will either have me in the Square for 10.50 or 12.00. Grr.
And Tallaght Central also has the 77/A bus service, the bane of my life when I'm waiting for a 49 in town...So many of them!

Bogger77

Victor_Meldrew wrote:

I've been sat behind the driver several times on Bus Éireann coaches, which according to the speedo have been travelling at a great deal more than 50mph. My record so far is 75mph on a trip to Galway.

Still takes a hell of a lot longer than the advertised 3hrs 40 minutes though.

All BE buses on that route are limited, are you sure it was Bus Eireann, not one of the other 2 bus companies that run that route. A certain company on that route is well known for using older buses (pre limiter regulations) or having limiters attached to switches to Disable them. The other company on the route simply uses better buses to win over passengers.

Reasons why Bus Eireann is slower on that route, they have to go into Maynooth, Enfield, Kinnegad and Oranmore, traffic in Moate, Loughrea, Craughwell and the stupid 50MPH limits in effect virtually from Enfield to Ro'bridge.

John R

Bogger77 wrote:

All BE buses on that route are limited, are you sure it was Bus Eireann, not one of the other 2 bus companies that run that route. A certain company on that route is well known for using older buses (pre limiter regulations) or having limiters attached to switches to Disable them. The other company on the route simply uses better buses to win over passengers.

There is no such thing as pre-limiter buses, all coaches by law have to have working limiters fitted, even if they were manufactured before the limiters were a requirement.

There are some BE coaches with faulty limiters, although it is mch more common with small operators where a driver has their "own" bus that they have an incentive to modify.
Many BE services on the Dublin - Galway route (and many others) are operated by contractors with non-BE drivers and coaches, even some CIE liveried vehicles are in fact privately owned and operated.

Bogger77 wrote:

Reasons why Bus Eireann is slower on that route, they have to go into Maynooth, Enfield, Kinnegad and Oranmore, traffic in Moate, Loughrea, Craughwell and the stupid 50MPH limits in effect virtually from Enfield to Ro'bridge.

Is there some way to avoid traffic in Moate, Loughrea and Craughwell?
It has been a long time since I have driven on that hellish route.

Victor_Meldrew

Incidentally, the bus I travelled on @ 75mph on a Dublin-Galway trip was a '96 reg 'VC'. Much nicer coach than the lumps of plastic BE have working that road nowadays.

Travelled with Citylink recently - managed to get from Dublin to Galway in 3hrs 5 mins. Over an hour quicker than my average Bus Eireann trip.

Bogger77

John R wrote:

Is there some way to avoid traffic in Moate, Loughrea and Craughwell?
It has been a long time since I have driven on that hellish route.

Yes

Red Alert

I certainly wouldn't complain about a disabled limiter. I heard that many artic lorry drivers can disable theirs by pulling a fuse out, buses are probably the same. (If you want a fast bus, go for the routes using the RA buses [94-D to 96-D] and the new AV's as they're much faster and have better accelleration! Stick away from the heap of trash RV's with their tiny engines!)

In my experience I haven't had a great time on the 44 but otherwise any other drivers have been sound enough. Then again, if there are scumbags on some routes in Dublin, why should the drivers treat them any better than scumbags?

Victor_Meldrew

Donnybrook's '96 Ra's are a particularly fast bus. I don't know where you got the idea that the AV's are fast though. Their acceleration is woefully poor - I think the fan has more power than the engine, to be honest.

The DT's are identical to the AV (same ALX400 body), but have a Cummins powerplant, rather than a Volvo one and are a hell of a lot quicker.

Ardent

A simple solution to all of this would be if Dublin Bus invested some money in a GPS system where you could have digital displays embedded in the bus stops indicating how long until the next bus arrives. Depending on how long it'll take to get to you, you could pop in somewhere for a cup of coffee while you're waiting or simply leg it by another means of transport.

Ardent

cdebru wrote:

I believe that the problem that you find on this route is at least partly due to a certain part of the clientele who use this service
some drivers who have been abused by these scumbags(beaten kicked spat on threatened etc) start to view all passengers who use that route as scumbags this is wrong but personally I think this maybe at least part of the problem.

Who ya telling. On my route, a bus driver had to endure the experience of some scumbag pissing down on top of him from upstairs, though the spy thing the drivers have or something like that. There was a subsequent strike by the other drivers operating out of the depot that serves that route for a few days. You wouldn't believe that there are f*ckers like that out there but there are.

(It's funny how on some buses you can be stopped from bringing a sandwich on board yet you can have a few lads upstairs smoking pot and drinking beer to beat the band. )

luckat

A GPA system in bus stops would be great, though only if we grow out of our charming taste for vandalism.

I was coming out of the gate this morning, sick as a dog with flu but heading for work because I haven't worked all week and need at least one day's pay.

I saw the bus coming up the other side of the road and waved my ticket despairingly, and he slowed down to allow me to run across the road (waiting till I got a gap in the traffic) and waited at the stop for me. There are some decent drivers out there.

One of the things I really like about Dublin is the way that people always say "Thank you" to the driver as they get out of the bus, by the way.

Dub13

Ardent wrote:

A simple solution to all of this would be if Dublin Bus invested some money in a GPS system where you could have digital displays embedded in the bus stops indicating how long until the next bus arrives. Depending on how long it'll take to get to you, you could pop in somewhere for a cup of coffee while you're waiting or simply leg it by another means of transport.

They have this allready its on trial on the west side of the city (cant think of the route).I dont no how the trial is going but this is the way forward.

Victor

luckat wrote:

One of the things I really like about Dublin is the way that people always say "Thank you" to the driver as they get out of the bus, by the way.

I find that drivers appreciate it more if (a) you are nice to them getting on the bus while (b) having correct fare.

Jonny Arson

Victor wrote:

I find that drivers appreciate it more if (a) you are nice to them getting on the bus while (b) having correct fare.

From personal experience whenever anyone does not have the correct fare alot of bus drivers act like the most obnoxious human beings you will ever come across. I have been shouted at before because of this and one time a friend of mine was refused to go on the bus because he was 10 cent short! Like for fcuk sake does it really matter that someone is short on change, its not like its going to put Dublin Bus out of business or anything. I personally feel there are alot of good bus drivers out there but the ones who are not nice are usually the most rude people you will ever come across.

John R

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

From personal experience whenever anyone does not have the correct fare alot of bus drivers act like the most obnoxious human beings you will ever come across. I have been shouted at before because of this and one time a friend of mine was refused to go on the bus because he was 10 cent short! Like for fcuk sake does it really matter that someone is short on change, its not like its going to put Dublin Bus out of business or anything. I personally feel there are alot of good bus drivers out there but the ones who are not nice are usually the most rude people you will ever come across.

How many other places would you expect to not have to pay the correct amount for something?

I suppose you expect bus drivers to risk disciplinary action because you cannot pay the fare.



In my experience the only time you will get hassle from drivers is if you offer up notes which they cannot accept.
Or if you throw a handful of coins into the box, announce a fare/destination get a ticket and then demand change, chances are they assumed you had put in the correct fare and did not count the contents.

Orange

i feel your pain i get that bus too!!!!!

worst bus route in dublin!!!