Shocked of limited rental properties in Dublin City Centre

tara73

hey,

I'm slightly thinking of returning to Dublin and had a look on daft for rental properties in South Dublin, like D2,4,8 and I'm shocked how little offers there are. price range 500-600 €, letting or sharing.
in average only 5 choices!

I ask myself where did all the shabby bedsits go?? are they all rented because there's such a big demand or did the LL gave up putting them up on daft because there's nobody to rent them anymore?

the same with rooms in apartments/houses. very, very little.

I can't really explain this to myself, i thought it would be the opposite, more available, as most of the foreigners who occupied these places in the boomtimes are gone.

any thoughts/insight knowledge about this?

StillWaters

tara73 wrote: »

hey,


I ask myself where did all the shabby bedsits go?? are they all rented because there's such a big demand or did the LL gave up putting them up on daft because there's nobody to rent them anymore?

any thoughts/insight knowledge about this?

Outlawed from next February. In advance of this, many LL have upgraded standards already or sold out.

The_Conductor

Sorry Tara- many of them- think Rathmines etc- are either renovated and being let at far higher rates, or being returned to their previous family home status. You're only in Lucan at the moment- is it worth moving for the sake of the commute? I know you could start to call pot and kettle at me

mikemac1

tara73 wrote: »

I can't really explain this to myself, i thought it would be the opposite, more available, as most of the foreigners who occupied these places in the boomtimes are gone.

Not so

The number of people born outside Ireland but living here increased by 25 per cent to 766,770 in the period 2006-2011. This occurred despite the decline in the economy which when expanding attracted many thousands here.

The sharpest percentage increases in non-Irish-born residents were among Romanians, with the population more than doubling from 8,566 to 17,995 (up 110 per cent) following EU accession in 2007 and people from India, where the community grew by 91 per cent to 17,856.

The largest rise in overall terms was, unsurprisingly, among the Polish-born community which grew from 63,090 to 115,193 (up 83 per cent) in the period.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0330/1224314100736.html

A lot are settled and content here, they're going nowhere.
And if they've been working for two years they have entitlements to welfare if they apply

riclad

Theres still people coming to dublin ,from other countrys or rural areas,
Many landlord s sold up as prices were falling the last 4 years ,so no of flats bedsits has decreased.
New laws re bathrooms etc may have decreased no of bedsits, flats on the market.
IF you get a flat in city centre you can get a bus or luas to your work place.

murphaph

But it's a renters' market

The_Conductor

murphaph wrote: »

But it's a renters' market

Mmmm- if you're willing to live in an area that has a surplus of rental property- Dublin, Galway and curiously Clare- are the areas where there is a significant excess of demand over supply.......

murphaph

smccarrick wrote: »

Mmmm- if you're willing to live in an area that has a surplus of rental property- Dublin, Galway and curiously Clare- are the areas where there is a significant excess of demand over supply.......

Exactly. As I've same numerous times on here...the meltdown of the property market will be highly regional.

As someone else said, prices in Dublin are unaffected by 500 empty apartments in Mayo somewhere.

tara73

thanks guys for input.

don't mean it personal to any comment but most of it is not really plausible to me.
ok, there are still arriving some immigrants but I really, really don't believe it's as much as in the boomtimes. can't be. illogical.
what do they all do, where do they all work?

and sure, some settled, but they won't settle in sharing places or bedsits.

I actually believe many of these shabby (sorry if someone feels insulted, but that's just what they are) places are vacant and the owners gave up renting them as they can't find anybody to rent it having that low standards.

I can't believe they are renovated either.
I lived in kind of a bedsit, a two storey victorian former family home, converted into 4 small apartments/bedsits.
the standard was low, like living in the 50's.
To renovate this or even bring the house to a rentable family home again would have cost the LL substantial money, wiring and bathrooms would have to be completely renewed, everything in general.
I just don't believe this was done with most of the houses which were converted into flats and there are many of them with very low standards, like on South Circular Road or Leinster Avenue/Rathmines.

And I know it's a renters market, but why should there be a run on sharing places and bedsits more than during the boom??

The_Conductor

tara73 wrote: »

And I know it's a renters market, but why should there be a run on sharing places and bedsits more than during the boom??

Because of new regulations governing bedsit type properties, principle of which is that they must have their own bathrooms. Its simply implausible in many cases for properties that were previously let as bedsits to continue to be so- it wouldn't make sense investing the sums of money necessary to bring them up to certified standards. Add into this- family homes in the D6/6W/8 areas, which would previously have been bedsit land- are the main segment of the property market thats maintaining buoyancy at present- so many people are turning these properties back into family homes.

Luca Brasi

murphaph wrote: »

But it's a renters' market

Its not a renters market in the areas where there is good demand for acommodation. Try looking for an apartment along the Green Luas line. One beds 900 to 1100 a go and gone with a day of being put on daft.
The mistake people make whether it is a property market or a rental market is lumping them all into one. There are several different rental markets and several different buyers market. The laws of supply and demand are what rule.

murphaph

tara73 wrote: »

And I know it's a renters market

In Dublin that would appear not to be the case any more. Your own experiences should be telling you that. Supply is tightening. The overhang of empty NAMA properties in the midlands and west don't affect Dublin rents.

The folly of living an impractical distance from a large city is coming home to roost for many. Dublin is attracting not only foreigners, but Irish.

murphaph

Luca Brasi wrote: »

Its not a renters market in the areas where there is good demand for acommodation. Try looking for an apartment along the Green Luas line. One beds 900 to 1100 a go and gone with a day of being put on daft.
The mistake people make whether it is a property market or a rental market is lumping them all into one. There are several different rental markets and several different buyers market. The laws of supply and demand are what rule.

I was being sarcastic Sorry bout that :pac:

Milk & Honey

tara73 wrote: »

hey,

I'm slightly thinking of returning to Dublin and had a look on daft for rental properties in South Dublin, like D2,4,8 and I'm shocked how little offers there are. price range 500-600 €, letting or sharing.
in average only 5 choices!

I ask myself where did all the shabby bedsits go?? are they all rented because there's such a big demand or did the LL gave up putting them up on daft because there's nobody to rent them anymore?

the same with rooms in apartments/houses. very, very little.

I can't really explain this to myself, i thought it would be the opposite, more available, as most of the foreigners who occupied these places in the boomtimes are gone.

any thoughts/insight knowledge about this?

There has been very little building for a number of years in most areas of Dublin. The banks haven't funded building in four years and only schemes started in 2007 were finished. At the same time the number of households in Dublin has increased. Added to that many landlords have been forced to sell by the banks. Investors are also unable to obtain funding to buy rental units. Conversion of multi-unit houses to single dwellings has also reduced supply.

Look at this thread which debated these issues a few months ago.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=79006148

StillWaters

tara73 wrote: »

I actually believe many of these shabby (sorry if someone feels insulted, but that's just what they are) places are vacant and the owners gave up renting them as they can't find anybody to rent it having that low standards.

I can't believe they are renovated either.
I lived in kind of a bedsit, a two storey victorian former family home, converted into 4 small apartments/bedsits.
the standard was low, like living in the 50's.
To renovate this or even bring the house to a rentable family home again would have cost the LL substantial money, wiring and bathrooms would have to be completely renewed, everything in general.
I just don't believe this was done with most of the houses which were converted into flats and there are many of them with very low standards, like on South Circular Road or Leinster Avenue/Rathmines.

Those pre 63 places have vanished from the Market. LL had to renovate to bring them up to standard, leave them empty or sell them on to be brought back into one house.

LLs did a mixture of those, but the end result is those very bottom of the Market places don't exist any more.

liffeylite

tara73 wrote: »

thanks guys for input.

don't mean it personal to any comment but most of it is not really plausible to me.
ok, there are still arriving some immigrants but I really, really don't believe it's as much as in the boomtimes. can't be. illogical.
what do they all do, where do they all work?

and sure, some settled, but they won't settle in sharing places or bedsits.

I actually believe many of these shabby (sorry if someone feels insulted, but that's just what they are) places are vacant and the owners gave up renting them as they can't find anybody to rent it having that low standards.

I can't believe they are renovated either.
I lived in kind of a bedsit, a two storey victorian former family home, converted into 4 small apartments/bedsits.
the standard was low, like living in the 50's.
To renovate this or even bring the house to a rentable family home again would have cost the LL substantial money, wiring and bathrooms would have to be completely renewed, everything in general.
I just don't believe this was done with most of the houses which were converted into flats and there are many of them with very low standards, like on South Circular Road or Leinster Avenue/Rathmines.

And I know it's a renters market, but why should there be a run on sharing places and bedsits more than during the boom??

in the census running from April 2011- to April this year, there were 87000 people emigrating from Ireland. A high number.

Of those 87000, 46000 were Irish....

So just over half.

However, in the same period 53000 people migrated TO Ireland. Which means that for every single Irish person that has left the country over the last 12 months, they have been replaced by either a returning Irish person or a foreign person.

53000 people move to Ireland - 46000 irish leave. In other words, every single irish person that you know or your friends tell you about that has left, someone else has arrived here to take their place and actually7000 more!

andreas_220D

liffeylite wrote: »

in the census running from April 2011- to April this year, there were 87000 people emigrating from Ireland. A high number.

Of those 87000, 46000 were Irish....

So just over half.

However, in the same period 53000 people migrated TO Ireland. Which means that for every single Irish person that has left the country over the last 12 months, they have been replaced by either a returning Irish person or a foreign person.

53000 people move to Ireland - 46000 irish leave. In other words, every single irish person that you know or your friends tell you about that has left, someone else has arrived here to take their place and actually7000 more!

53000 people moved to Ireland - 87000 left. In other words, for every single person that has left, someone else has arrived here to take their place and actually left 34000 vacant!

Milk & Honey

andreas_220D wrote: »

53000 people moved to Ireland - 87000 left. In other words, for every single person that has left, someone else has arrived here to take their place and actually left 34000 vacant!

How many were born? How many died? How many households dissolved? How many households were formed?

It is the latter two questions which are significant from the point of view of demand for accommodation. There is presently a very high net rate of household formation in Ireland.

liffeylite

andreas_220D wrote: »

53000 people moved to Ireland - 87000 left. In other words, for every single person that has left, someone else has arrived here to take their place and actually left 34000 vacant!

Yes, obviously you are correct. Although overall there is a net increase in population due to high birth rate and low death rate. so total population, despite emigration actually increased by 11,000 people.

but my point is that of that 87000, 40000 approx are foreign workers returning home. 87000 Irish people have not left the country!

46000 have, and for each and every one of them a person has moved to Ireland- half of which are returning Irish.

So my statment still holds true. There are more people moving to Ireland than there are Irish nationals leaving.

liffeylite

Milk & Honey wrote: »

How many were born? How many died? How many households dissolved? How many households were formed?

It is the latter two questions which are significant from the point of view of demand for accommodation. There is presently a very high net rate of household formation in Ireland.

Nail on the head and you are completley right. The national population, especially in the Dublin area is young. 25-35 year olds make up a disproportionate percentage of the population. Hence there has been a baby boom every year for the past 5 years or so and this trend will likley continue for the next 5.

As families grow they need bigger houses- hence lack of 3 bed family homes in desirable parts of Dublin.

But until banks start lending to developers and developers see profit in house building, this shortfall won be addressed. As a result, there is price increase and instances of people paying more than the asking price for family houses in Dublin.

Ideally, Ireland could do with a new lender entering the market. A cash rich one. Santander/Barclays- someone like that. Well built schemes in the right areas will sell quickly and create jobs in the construction industry.

cson

Bear in mind its a bad time of year to be looking; no one will be looking to move this close to Xmas hence the lack of places going up on Daft.

With one eye on the future here; if you could get the backing to start redeveloping certain areas around Phibsboro then it could turn into a highly desirable area with the BXD line coming on stream and a potential redevelopment of the shopping centre. Personally, if I were a developer that's where I'd be looking. South City/County is at saturation point and the loadings on the Luas/DB during morning rush hour is evidence of that.

tara73

not meant judgemental or anything just trying to get a picture about dublin after not living there for a while: noticed almost every second place browsing through daft dublin sharing places/apartments is occupied by brazilians...why's that?

stevedublin

tara73 wrote: »

not meant judgemental or anything just trying to get a picture about dublin after not living there for a while: noticed almost every second place browsing through daft dublin sharing places/apartments is occupied by brazilians...why's that?

not sure, Brazilians are very sociable so would like sharing, but many may not want to share with them since they may want to get a good nights sleep instead of having a house party every night.

markpb

cson wrote: »

Bear in mind its a bad time of year to be looking; no one will be looking to move this close to Xmas hence the lack of places going up on Daft.

With one eye on the future here; if you could get the backing to start redeveloping certain areas around Phibsboro then it could turn into a highly desirable area with the BXD line coming on stream and a potential redevelopment of the shopping centre. Personally, if I were a developer that's where I'd be looking. South City/County is at saturation point and the loadings on the Luas/DB during morning rush hour is evidence of that.

+1 to most of that. I think the Green Luas could handle more people - they used to run trams every 4 minutes during peak times but this was dropped a few years ago. If their finances improve, I could see this coming back.

To echo the OPs sentiments, I'm currently living in Dundrum and looking to rent a new place in the same area but finding it very hard. There's nothing of a decent size available nearby and very little of any size. I'll punch the next person who tells me its a renters market. Attached is a pic showing *all* rental properties in the area: nine.

tara73

stevedublin wrote: »

not sure, Brazilians are very sociable so would like sharing, but many may not want to share with them since they may want to get a good nights sleep instead of having a house party every night.

hahaha, yes, that's true:)

liffeylite

markpb wrote: »

+1 to most of that. I think the Green Luas could handle more people - they used to run trams every 4 minutes during peak times but this was dropped a few years ago. If their finances improve, I could see this coming back.

To echo the OPs sentiments, I'm currently living in Dundrum and looking to rent a new place in the same area but finding it very hard. There's nothing of a decent size available nearby and very little of any size. I'll punch the next person who tells me its a renters market. Attached is a pic showing *all* rental properties in the area: nine.

Peak times now the green line runs every 3-6 minutes. average every 4.5 mins.

however, the time is probably right to build more apartments in the right places. I read somewhere that Dublin Daft listings had decreased by 40% or so in 12 months. if that continues there wont be any places tihs tme next year!

Kosseegan

liffeylite wrote: »

Peak times now the green line runs every 3-6 minutes. average every 4.5 mins.

however, the time is probably right to build more apartments in the right places. I read somewhere that Dublin Daft listings had decreased by 40% or so in 12 months. if that continues there wont be any places tihs tme next year!

There won't be any building for years. There is no funding available.
Rents will have to be forced up till landlords can pay their mortgages.

Ray Palmer

Kosseegan wrote: »

There won't be any building for years. There is no funding available.
Rents will have to be forced up till landlords can pay their mortgages.

What people forget is LL are not all with mortgages and the vast majority didn't buy in the peak.
Rents are destined to go up over the next few years

nxbyveromdwjpg

Been looking weeks now for south city centre, definitely NOT a renters market there

Morte

Just got a letter in the door from an estate agents at the weekend looking for properties to rent. Good indication of how strong demand is at the moment around here (Drumcondra).

Milk & Honey

Ray Palmer wrote: »

What people forget is LL are not all with mortgages and the vast majority didn't buy in the peak.
Rents are destined to go up over the next few years

There are a large number of landlords in default on mortgages. Rising rents may lift some of them out of trouble. The banks are in no hurry to fund more building and crash the rental market again.