Support based on geography

molloyjh

People tend to support their local team because their local team is flying the banner for them. There's a sense of connection there that I (a Dub) wouldn't really have with the other provinces. Of course that's a generalisation and there will always be exceptions. I've no real issues with it one way or another. I'll slag off someone who doesn't support "their own" but it will always be in good humour. After the Cardiff game in the RDS a few weeks back I met an Cardiff bloke who was there with his wife. She is from Dublin, and has always lived in Dublin, but supports the Ospreys. And not for the reasons you might think. I gave her some stick over it, we laughed and that was that.

As for the religious thing, I think your mate is the one with the issue there. The mother-in-laws partner played rugby for Greystones 30+ years ago and according to him even during the Troubles there was never even the slightest hint of sectarianism or anything like that in the game. They played their games, had their sessions and ignored all the bs.

EDIT: I'm meeting more and more Meinsters these days btw....

molloyjh

totallegend wrote: »

A person from Leinster who supports Munster; population peaked in May 2006 and have been in steady decline since.

Think Reggie Corrigan claims credit for coining the term.

I'll never forget meeting him outside Croke Park in 2009. He had a wicked grin on his face: "That'll show those f-ing Lunsters!". :pac:

Foxtrol

Baker87 wrote: »

Is this not a bit ironic seeing as when you are at a Leinster match the majority of people sitting around you could be considered "bandwagoners"?

No I dont find it ironic and if you do I think you may need to refresh your understanding of irony.

EDIT: I dont know where you are getting your opinion that the majority of Leinster fans are former Lunsters anyway

Would a "Lunster" who supported both teams in the 90's be less or more of a bandwagoner who only started supporting Leinster/Munster in the last 10 years when rugby took off here?

No I wouldnt, where have I mentioned someone picking a province to support a bandwagoner?

Foxtrol

JustinDee wrote: »

Every sport going is vying for the attention of new interest and no-one is more deserving of being deemed a fan than anyone else who attends or follows.
The term "bandwagon" gets chucked around as if it is a bad thing. It most certainly isn't. We want "bandwagons". "Bandwagons" signify new waves of supporters, players, referees, ticket holders, club members, subscribers etc etc. Thats why success is so important.

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

Cienciano

Ares wrote: »

I know of three people who don't support the province that they hail from, one is a Catholic from Derry who supports Connaught, another is a Munsterman who prefers the style of play of Leinster and he doesn't like the country bandwagon support that Munster attracted since the year 2000 while the final man has an issue with the upper class snobbery of Leinster rugby and idetifies more with the gritty underside of Limerick city and rugby in general.

They're 3 crap reasons. Chuck Stone explained one.
Imagine supporting a team based on it's style of play? That changes depending on the coach!
And snobbery of leinster rugby? Is this another person that thinks leinster is entirely in a small part of Dublin 4 and all it's fans are Ross O'Carroll Kelly clones? Seems like a gobshíte with an inferiority complex!

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

As for the religious thing, I think your mate is the one with the issue there. The mother-in-laws partner played rugby for Greystones 30+ years ago and according to him even during the Troubles there was never even the slightest hint of sectarianism or anything like that in the game. They played their games, had their sessions and ignored all the bs.

Its not a religious thing in NI - its a tribal thing in that nationalist (generally catholics) support GAA and Unionists (generally protestant) support rugby and neither the twain met in the past within NI.

Soccer was always played by both tribes and thats when there was trouble. Bear in mind that Derry City play in the League of Ireland.

Protestants & catholics played rugby in ROI, so sectarianism wasn't going to be an issue there.

jm08

molloyjh wrote: »

I'll never forget meeting him outside Croke Park in 2009. He had a wicked grin on his face: "That'll show those f-ing Lunsters!". :pac:

Crickey, you'd think he'd have more sense.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

In fairness to Leinster, they have worked hard at changing their image. I mean a stand at the All Ireland Ploughing Championship!:D

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Crickey, you'd think he'd have more sense.

I'd let him away with it. During his career he had to take a fair amount of stick ("ladies" etc) from Lunsters.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

In fairness to Leinster, they have worked hard at changing their image. I mean a stand at the All Ireland Ploughing Championship!:D

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

damianmcr

Catholic from Co. Derry and I support Ulster.

CatFromHue

Foxtrol wrote: »

When did Leinster ever change their image? They may have broadened the market they target with their advertising but that is not the same as changing their image.

Prob not related to this thread but Leinster have nearly gotten rid of the yellow that used to be in their jerseys/flags.

The jersey worn by Miller below is still one of my favourite jerseys.

jm08

Foxtrol wrote: »

I'd let him away with it. During his career he had to take a fair amount of stick ("ladies" etc) from Lunsters.

It was entirely his own fault. Nicknames are generally fitting.

CatFromHue

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

It makes more sense to have someone with a farming background at a ploughing event than someone who doesn't.

JustinDee

Foxtrol wrote: »

Where have I mentioned new interest in the sport? My post clearly gave the example of a Lunster who has suddenly gotten over the "snobbery of Leinster" now that Leinster are the team winning trophies. You might want the term bandwagoners to have a positive connotation which is fine but the description of this type of fan only deserves to be negative.

It isn't like somebody flipping from one province to another involves a life or death situation. They might have a perfectly valid reason to do so. Players can switch provinces. Are they the Judas for doing so?
Nothing negative to be found in the so-called "bandwagon" at all, and again I'll say it, no single fan betters any other through the gates or on the street.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

It makes more sense to have someone with a farming background at a ploughing event than someone who doesn't.

Why? He is selling Leinster rugby to the attendees, not buying farm machinery for Leinster!

Baker87

Foxtrol wrote: »

No I dont find it ironic and if you do I think you may need to refresh your understanding of irony.

EDIT: I dont know where you are getting your opinion that the majority of Leinster fans are former Lunsters anyway



No I wouldnt, where have I mentioned someone picking a province to support a bandwagoner?

I think you misunderstood my point, I'm not suggesting that the majority of Leinster supporters are former Lunsters..

I'm suggesting that there is some irony in criticising Lunsters for bandwagoning behind Munster, when a good chunk of Leinsters current support could be described as bandwagoners themselves.

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

Leinster didn't try to change their image of being fancy dan backs outfit? I suppose that's why they sent down Sean O'Brien to man the stand rather than one of the backs who has highlights in his hair!

"Celebrating over a century of running rugby" - The tagline for the Leinster DVD released last Friday.

Broadening the focus of your marketing is not a change in image and neither is using a squad member for an appearance with relevant interests to the event (horses for courses).

Foxtrol

jm08 wrote: »

It was entirely his own fault. Nicknames are generally fitting.

Crickey, you'd think they'd have more sense. :rolleyes:

Foxtrol

JustinDee wrote: »

It isn't like somebody flipping from one province to another involves a life or death situation.

Ah sure I'm I wont get any strange looks when I head down to Landsdowne in my Argentina jersey on Saturday.

They might have a perfectly valid reason to do so. Players can switch provinces. Are they the Judas for doing so?

Depends on the situation. If Earls decided to up sticks and move to Leinster saying he felt more affinity with Leinster I'm sure there would be a few raised eyebrows.

Nothing negative to be found in the so-called "bandwagon" at all, and again I'll say it, no single fan betters any other through the gates or on the street.

I'd appreciate if you didn't try to put words in my mouth. No single fan is better than any other but I have no respect for those who turn their backs on their home province/country to their rivals during a tough period only to come back when things pick up.

danthefan

Players can switch provinces to further their careers, and they have a duty to themselves to do what's best for them.

Being a rugby fan is not a career.

Foxtrol

Baker87 wrote: »

I think you misunderstood my point, I'm not suggesting that the majority of Leinster supporters are former Lunsters..

I'm suggesting that there is some irony in criticising Lunsters for bandwagoning behind Munster, when a good chunk of Leinsters current support could be described as bandwagoners themselves.

I in no way class new fans to the sport as being "bandwagoners" in the sense I was speaking so even with your loose use of irony I dont agree with you.

totallegend

This thread is going nowhere lads.

Truly supporting a team in a "they lost so my week is wrecked" sort of way is an emotional, and therefore irrational, thought process. You're trying to apply logic and a set of rules to something that goes beyond what you "should" be doing.

If you're from Leinster but , for whatever reason, you find yourself rooting for Munster in the derby, that's just the way it is. You can't take yourself out the back, give yourself a good talking to then come back in for the second half, blue to the core and screaming abuse at ROG.

Or when the province v country debate comes up here, and you see posters saying that "the national team should be the priority for fans"; maybe it should be but if fans feel more affinity for their province, then tough, that's how it is.

If you're supporting a team based on what you 'should' be feeling, then you're not really getting what sport is truly about.

JustinDee

Foxtrol wrote: »

Ah sure I'm I wont get any strange looks when I head down to Landsdowne in my Argentina jersey on Saturday . . . etc etc

Like I said, it isn't exactly a matter of life and death. The subjective tribalism about teams is taken a little too seriously, in my view. Even in something as divisable as State of Origin in RL, I can't but admire the skillsets of players like Cam Smith, Israel Folau, Billy Slater or Darren Lockyer.
Sport is just . . . sport. You're entitled to your view on this. I've just given you mine. No harm done.

jacothelad

Ares wrote: »

Why is it that people in Ireland, generally, support based exclusively on geography?

In Limerick and Dublin its not where you're from that decides your club yet it does so at provincial level.

People should be able to pick and choose based on whatever affinity they have for the club. Now I accept that many people are tribal in nature and because that they're from a certain place means that they must support a certain team but there are other reasons that one would be drawn to a club, be it the colour of a jersey, the style of play to the political background of the club.

I know of three people who don't support the province that they hail from, one is a Catholic from Derry who supports Connaught, another is a Munsterman who prefers the style of play of Leinster and he doesn't like the country bandwagon support that Munster attracted since the year 2000 while the final man has an issue with the upper class snobbery of Leinster rugby and idetifies more with the gritty underside of Limerick city and rugby in general.

Now all three of these are regular match going supporters who travel from their native areas up to games of the teams that they follow. Yet they are looked on derisively by those of their province who believe in the parochialism that one must follow the local team.

I personally think this is wrong. But others I've talked to don't agree with me. Why should people naively follow the local team for no other reason than geography?

Well, your friend from 'Derry could have gone along to City of Derry Rugby Club and looked at it's great history on Ulster Rugby. I assume he must have some bizarre hatred of middle class protestants as no doubt he is deluded enough to think that rugby is the exclusive purview of that demographic. He could trot 17 miles up the road and see how Ulster Rugby is a big hit in Letterkenny Rugby Club. He could have gone along to any rugby game ever played in Ulster and stood beside other Catholics, - though how he would have known who was who beats me. Alongside Hindus, Moslems and Jews as well as the host of Atheists that make the crowd's IQ shoot upwards. He could have gone along to games at Ravenhill and stood shoulder to shoulder with people like many of my family from Ardoyne, like two of my buddies who are local priests and watched many Catholics playing for Ulster. Instead, he decided to be sectarian and stick his head up his fundamental orifice - metaphorically of course. Religion has got eff all squared to do with rugby- except among the feeble minded and those looking to be offended. It never has and it never will. You should have a serious talk with your 'friend'. He needs help to deal with his bigotry.

molloyjh wrote: »

As for the religious thing, I think your mate is the one with the issue there. The mother-in-laws partner played rugby for Greystones 30+ years ago and according to him even during the Troubles there was never even the slightest hint of sectarianism or anything like that in the game. They played their games, had their sessions and ignored all the bs.

EDIT: I'm meeting more and more Meinsters these days btw....

Absolutely right. I've never experienced sectarianism any time I've played in the Republic. Like Leinster and many other areas in Ireland, rugby clubs have their origins within the Public and Grammar School system. As these people tend to be intelligent, well educated and well rounded people who can tie their own shoelaces, think for themselves and have more wit than a dead frog, nothing would make these people think for a millisecond of being guilty of some crass religious bigotry. As someone with a family background in Belfast's Catholic Ardoyne district, I was fortunate enough to attend MCB. In my first year group of about 250 pupils, it was like a United Nations. There were guys and girls from many parts of the world boarding at the school. Malaya, Burma, Iran, Iraq, India, Pakistan, Java, Saudi Arabia and about 10 African countries were represented. There were Buddhists, Taoists, Muslims, Catholics, Protestants, Sikhs etc. Nobody gave a f8ck where a person was from. what colour tgheir epidermis happened to be or what a person was in terms of faith. I have no doubt that this was repeated in every other rugby school in Ireland.

Cienciano wrote: »

They're 3 crap reasons. Chuck Stone explained one.
Imagine supporting a team based on it's style of play? That changes depending on the coach!
And snobbery of leinster rugby? Is this another person that thinks leinster is entirely in a small part of Dublin 4 and all it's fans are Ross O'Carroll Kelly clones? Seems like a gobshíte with an inferiority complex!

Quite.

Rover Random

I hail from Kilkenny but my Province of choice is Munster. The reason behind this is my favourite players were/are Munster men. Namely; D. Wallace and O' Connell. I really don't see the problem with this. Have never been tempted to switch allegiances due to Leinsters' recent success.

.ak

I'd keep this thread open if certain people could resist the urge of pot shots at other provinces. But they can't. Shame.