Garda accused of rape in station.

midlandsmissus

Rasheed wrote: »

Just think if that man was your brother/ husband/ friend. This isn't a run of the mill 'he stole my money' or 'he was done for drink driving'. Mud sticks and to be even accused of this, he will always be known as 'that' man.

We don't know the details of this case, god knows what happened, you or I certainly don't.

If it come out true, fair enough, he deserves everything he gets. But we have to wait and see.

I hear you 'mud sticks' argument, and I see all the incidences where the girl was blamed, her life ruined, suffering from the assault and blamed for it/accused of lieing, the man showed no remorse (sex offenders generally don't think they did anything wrong) and was able to go on fine with his life.

Remember on AH here not long ago the stories of 'he was a good respectable man he wouldnt have done it, she came from a bad family'

As I said, the whole thing is terribly terribly sad and breaks my heart and I dont see how to fix it. I do see that the fines for sentencing is a terrible, terible stance to take in this issue though.

MagicSean

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Because generally why would people make it up? Why on earth? And why is it always with rape cases that people are so obsessed with the word allegedly and not with other crimes?

The effect of a false accusation of sexual assault, especially against a vulnerable person is pretty much life ending.

poeticseraphim wrote: »

Perhaps it would have been best not to release the fact that this happened in Meath??

We all want a fair trial.

Says the West of Ireland.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I think she's basing this on the fact that the majority of people, past and present, don't just come out with this story out of nowhere.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/ireland-has-highest-rate-of-false-rape-allegations-1723441.html

"Ireland has one of the highest rates of false rape allegations in Europe, according to research carried out by Trinity College Dublin and London Metropolitan University.

The study estimates that 9% of rape allegations made in Ireland are false.

It also finds a strong link between false allegations and alcohol consumption and says alcohol was also a prominent feature in legitimate rape cases."

Fr_Dougal

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What really annoys me about these cases is the whole 'ALLEGEDLY', Its not proved, she just said it, it's not proven.

Of course it's not proven till it goes through courts, we all know that, but why the huge wave to shout over everything 'ALLEGEDLY!!!!!!!!!!'

If some-one came forward and said a person pick pocketed on them street, would everyone shout 'well thats what they said, it's ALLEGEDLY!!!!'.

Because generally why would people make it up? Why on earth? And why is it always with rape cases that people are so obsessed with the word allegedly and not with other crimes? People generally dont make up detailed stories of crimes about them up. Why would you do it?

I sometimes think people automatically would rather believe it didn't happen because it is too horrible that comprehend that it did.

Because cases like this happen from time to time...and this...and this...and this...

Hope that clears it up for you.

midlandsmissus

MagicSean wrote: »

The effect of a false accusation of sexual assault, especially against a vulnerable person is pretty much life ending.

Not as life ending as actually being raped, and a huge number of people instantly assuming you may be lying. Imagine the hell that must be? A double whammy, if you will.

Just put yourself in that person's shoes for the minute, you've been raped, a hugely traumatic thing, and you have people thinking you're crazy and lying about it.

Please put yourself in that person's shoes for a minute. And I will try to put myself in the falsely accused man's shoes.

As an above poster said, we automatically attach ourselves to our own gender in the news report. It's important to try to see it from the other side.

midlandsmissus

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Because cases like this happen from time to time...and this...and this...and this...

Hope that clears it up for you.

I could list all the thousands of cases of rapes for you, do you want me to?

We'll just accept that they both happen.

Adam

midlandsmissus wrote: »

MagicSean wrote: »

The effect of a false accusation of sexual assault, especially against a vulnerable person is pretty much life ending.

Not as life ending as actually being raped, and a huge number of people instantly assuming you may be lying. Imagine the hell that must be? A double whammy, if you will.

Just put yourself in that person's shoes for the minute, you've been raped, a hugely traumatic thing, and you have people thinking you're crazy and lying about it.

Please put yourself in that person's shoes for a minute. And I will try to put myself in the falsely accused man's shoes.

As an above poster said, we automatically attach ourselves to our own gender in the news report. It's important to try to see it from the other side.

Who said she's crazy and lying about it? Everyone is simply waiting for the facts.

smash

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I could list all the thousands of cases of rapes for you, do you want me to?

We'll just accept that they both happen.

Can we close the thread now?

MagicSean

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Not as life ending as actually being raped, and a huge number of people instantly assuming you may be lying. Imagine the hell that must be? A double whammy, if you will.

Just put yourself in that person's shoes for the minute, you've been raped, a hugely traumatic thing, and you have people thinking you're crazy and lying about it.

Please put yourself in that person's shoes for a minute. And I will try to put myself in the falsely accused man's shoes.

As an above poster said, we automatically attach ourselves to our own gender in the news report. It's important to try to see it from the other side.

With a one in ten chance of an allegation being false i think it's safer to reserve judgement until you know the facts.

Fr_Dougal

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I could list all the thousands of cases of rapes for you, do you want me to?

We'll just accept that they both happen.

How about you just accept that everyone deserves a fair trial and that people are innocent until proven guilty.

midlandsmissus

Adam wrote: »

Who said she's crazy and lying about it? Everyone is simply waiting for the facts.

That's what generally happens to rape victims.

The exercise was to put yourself in their shoes for 5 minutes.

flutterflye

talla10 wrote: »

Without hearing a shred of evidence and just on reading one single newpaper report?????

Lets hope you are never allowed near a jury. The investigation is ongoing.

Why?
In any case you hear about, you tend to take sides - human nature.
Without any knowledge of any evidence one way or the other, we are going to use whatever we do have to form an opinion.
In this case a girl says she was raped, a guard says he didn't.


Why do you think that put on jury that I would say "that's it - lock him up? evidence? - no, no need, throw away the key your honour", just because I happen to be giving the girl the benefit of the doubt?

One is just my gut reaction, and feeling based on what I read in that article, and the other is looking at a detailed inquiry including evidence for or against, and ultimately deciding whether or not a man should be prosecuted.

They don't even compare.

Madam_X

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What really annoys me about these cases is the whole 'ALLEGEDLY', Its not proved, she just said it, it's not proven.

Of course it's not proven till it goes through courts, we all know that, but why the huge wave to shout over everything 'ALLEGEDLY!!!!!!!!!!'

If some-one came forward and said a person pick pocketed on them street, would everyone shout 'well thats what they said, it's ALLEGEDLY!!!!'.

Because generally why would people make it up? Why on earth? And why is it always with rape cases that people are so obsessed with the word allegedly and not with other crimes? People generally dont make up detailed stories of crimes about them up. Why would you do it?

I sometimes think people automatically would rather believe it didn't happen because it is too horrible that comprehend that it did.

Look at the case of the teacher I mentioned. False allegations happen - and even if it's rare, once is too much.
I know there is a small number of people on Boards who are quite misogynistic in their thinking and who like to say "But what if it's a false allegation?" even in relation to cases where there is a conviction (and it's horrible stuff) but the fact that this case has not even gone to court yet, should be enough for people to give the accused the benefit of the doubt. It's not a case of being obsessed with "allegedly", it's just following due course and being fair about things. The reason it might appear so prevalent in relation to rape cases is because rape is a bloody major thing to be accused of. Choosing to believe someone is guilty without a trial and conviction is wrong. End of.

If a person says they were raped, I wouldn't automatically be suspicious that they were - I'd believe them more than likely - but I'm not a judge or jury in a court setting.

Suspension from service in these cases is normal protocol while an investigation takes place - it isn't an implication of guilt.

I can't believe there are some usually decent-minded people here going with "Guilty until proven innocent" type thinking...

Yellowblackbird

flutterflye wrote: »

we are going to use whatever we do have to form an opinion.

No you shouldn't form an opinion.
You weren't there, and you don't know if this happened or did not happen.

You say 'we are going to use whatever we do have'. You have nothing. You weren't there so you have nothing to form an opinion on.

smash

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

No you shouldn't form an opinion.
You weren't there, and you don't know if this happened or did not happen.

You say 'we are going to use whatever we do have'. You have nothing. You weren't there so you have nothing to form an opinion on.

She has a story, and it's what she's forming an opinion on.

In fairness, it's human nature.

HeyThereDeliah

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

No you shouldn't form an opinion.
You weren't there, and you don't know if this happened or did not happen.

You say 'we are going to use whatever we do have'. You have nothing. You weren't there so you have nothing to form an opinion on.

Most people form an opinion based on what they read, any topic in the news people you talk to will ask "what do you think" it's human nature to speculate about stuff.

I formed my opinion on the fact he is suspended from duty rather than put on desk duty and the fact he will probably lose his job according to the link.

I don't know if he is guilty or not but my own feeling is he is.

I know to be accused of rape is something that will follow you around for ever because some people will always doubt your innocence.

flutterflye

Yellowblackbird wrote: »

No you shouldn't form an opinion.
You weren't there, and you don't know if this happened or did not happen.

You say 'we are going to use whatever we do have'. You have nothing. You weren't there so you have nothing to form an opinion on.

I shouldn't, should I not?
Course I'm going to form an opinion, just like everyone does about everything the whole time - it's fairly impossible not to!
What is it to you or the guard or to anyone what I think?
Once we know more about the situation, I'll reassess.
For now, I don't see why a girl would make that up, plus that article said there was some strong evidence against the guard - That to me was enough to have me leaning towards believing her over him.
I'm not going to arrive with pitchforks, I'm not going to go around telling everyone I know "Oh jaysus Mary, guess what - The paper said that this guard raped this girl".
I would say it like it is - that a guard was accused of raping the girl.
My initial reaction after reading that is to believe the girl over the guard. That is all - I'm hardly guilty of the crime of the century here like!

King of Kings

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I think she's basing this on the fact that the majority of people, past and present, don't just come out with this story out of nowhere.

True he's not guilty until proven so, we all know that.

actually they do.
Most of them never make the papers.

I was flat mates with a guy who was a social worker and one of the teens in care claimed they were sleeping together.
He was "on paid leave" for over 6 months while it was being investigated.
He was cleared of any wrong doing. that never made the papers.

I'd imagine this is similar but the garda is removed for procedure and it's in the paper because he is a garda.
Let's see first if the case goes anywhere before we cast judgement.

he even hasn't even been charged only questioned and people here want him to swing already. animals.

midlandsmissus

King of Kings wrote: »

actually they do.
Most of them never make the papers.

I was flat mates with a guy who was a social worker and one of the teens in care claimed they were sleeping together.
He was "on paid leave" for over 6 months while it was being investigated.
He was cleared of any wrong doing. that never made the papers.

I'd imagine this is similar but the garda is removed for procedure and it's in the paper because he is a garda.
Let's see first if the case goes anywhere before we cast judgement.

he even hasn't even been charged only questioned and people here want him to swing already. animals.

In fact I think you're exaggerating, I think everyone has said he's entitled to a fair trial. 'Animals?'

King of Kings

midlandsmissus wrote: »

In fact I think you're exaggerating, I think everyone has said he's entitled to a fair trial. 'Animals?'

how so? My flat mate? or that it happens a lot that doesn't make the news?

If he was charged - then I'd see a point in believing one side over another.
But people who berate the chap who hasn't even been charged. yeah they're a dangerous bunch of animals.

jluv

Does anyone else feel the tone of the article really leans to the guard being guilty? It does sway your mind.So does the author of the article have an obligation to ensure that they are not adding flame to a fire if no fire exsists...Say he is innocent..What comeback would the guard have.

mikemac1

That's just how Sir Anthony and Independent Newspapers treat public sector workers

mitosis

JohnMarston wrote: »

If these allegations turn out to be true, i would hope that a kicking from the force would be a start, thats a given

And if false?

Yellowblackbird

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

I formed my opinion on the fact he is suspended from duty rather than put on desk duty and the fact he will probably lose his job according to the link.

From the minute an allegation is made it is automatic to suspension and is not based on any hearing of the case. So it doesn't confer guilt.

In terms of the "newspaper" says he will be sacked or the "newspaper" says there is a strong case - Who is writing this. Where did they get their information from? Have they told you their source.

Some of you people are adopting the approach that an allegation is half way to a conviction. So we're half sure he did it. We'll reluctantly withhold our full ire and pitchforks until the formality of the trial is finished. Then we'll really let him have it.

Anyone can make a false allegation. It doesn't cost anything. If you were ever on the receiving end of one you would appreciate people holding off until the facts are in. Especially people who have zero information or facts but feel strongly entitled to their Opinion.

midlandsmissus

King of Kings wrote: »

how so? My flat mate? or that it happens a lot that doesn't make the news?

If he was charged - then I'd see a point in believing one side over another.
But people who berate the chap who hasn't even been charged. yeah they're a dangerous bunch of animals.

I was referring to the last line of your point when I said you were exaggerating.

'People here want him to swing already. Animals'.




Has anyone on here identifying more with him immediately, done the mental exercise of putting themselves in a rape victim shoes -who also has the horror of people thinking they're lying? I've tried to imagine what it would like to be a falsely accused person.

I think this is important.

Madam_X

Just because people are saying innocent until proven guilty doesn't mean they're identifying with him more strongly.

I don't agree everyone will form an opinion outside of what has been published. I haven't. The person who made the allegation may have been subjected to that horrendous ordeal, she may not be telling the truth; the man may have raped her, he may not. That is all we have to go on. It doesn't reflect "siding" more with one over the other.

the_syco

midlandsmissus wrote: »

And why is it always with rape cases that people are so obsessed with the word allegedly and not with other crimes?

If you are alegeded to have killed someone, but proven innocent, it's grand.

If you are alegeded to rape someone, it'll always hang over you, even if proven guilty.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Has anyone on here identifying more with him immediately, done the mental exercise of putting themselves in a rape victim shoes -who also has the horror of people thinking they're lying? I've tried to imagine what it would like to be a falsely accused person.

I think this is important.

Whilst she may or may not be telling the truth, the part form the article that struck me is the part

The rape is alleged to have happened in the west of Ireland station in 2010, after the garda built up a relationship with the woman by falsely claiming he was a family liaison officer.

The case came to light when the alleged victim told a solicitor what had happened, which led to a formal complaint and a massive investigation.

Well done to her for telling someone if indeed it is true, but on the other hand, why did she wait for two years?

Micky Dolenz

It's probably best if we leave this here for now and until more info is released. There is little info on the story and speculation is rife.