My first crash!

P.C.

Fr Dougal wrote: »

Nope. I know of one case where rider swerved to avoid a car and dropped bike. No contact but drivers insurance company paid up. No court case. Rider is a member here, he might post up if he sees this.

I would like to see that.

I find it very hard to believe that an insurance company would pay out when there is no contact between the two vehicles.

P.C.

paddy147 wrote: »

Im sorry,but this has to be posted.........(being a moderator and all that):D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hkcZilKChI

Nothing to do with that.

If I am wrong, then, I am wrong.

No need to tell people how to post on a forum.
I do not tell you how to post, or do I?

danielma

you are lucky!

I had a fall once..

Del2005 wrote: »

There's only 2 types of bikers. The ones who have crashed and the ones yet to. If all our crashes could turn out so easy I'd be happy.

Humans eh!

eoinkildare wrote: »

x

Anyway, I'll open this up to the inevitable slagging now...


Cheers,

Eoin

Hey Eoin, nobody will be slagging you mate, taking a spill is sadly inevitable on two wheels it's just the severity that varies.

Road surface is a major contributor to most minor scrapes (I know I've had a few) and **** happens, a minor (injury and damage wise) fall does nothing but make you a better biker, more aware of our vulnerability and how we are slaves to road conditions and other road users.
Glad you are ok.

Cienciano

Eoin, at least it wasn't a bad off and you're grand. Not expensive and tbh, just paying yourself isn't too bad. If it was a brand new bike with fairing damage, rearsets, handlebars, bent subframe etc it would have been nasty considering you dont have a chance of claiming.

paddy147 wrote: »

Well done...indeed.:eek:

You can say that when you dont actually know what exactly happened.

For all you now that car driver may have indicated out of the bus lane and it was down to a lack of judgement and experience from the biker with regards slowing down and braking on a dark and wet road.....



Bus lane is open to all traffic before 7am and after 7pm Monday-Saturday and all day Sunday.......unless its specificly stated as a 24 hour bus lane.

From what I know the driver was a prick. If they come on and tell us their side of the story that might change, but at the moment he's (or she) is a prick!

Cuddlesworth

paddy147 wrote: »

Just a thought here...but surely a camera on the bike would be fcuk all use if it showed that you were speeding in any sort of way or acting the maggot on the bike..with regards road positioning before the accident???????


Surely you would be lambasted for that????

It all depends on the circumstances. In the case of the OP, since the car changed lanes, caused the heavy braking and subsequent off he would be 100% liable regardless of the speed being done by the bike. Its every drivers duty of car to check the way is clear before entering a lane/road.

If you had the license plate and reported it, its possible the insurance company would pay if they admitted being there at the time and pulling into the lane. If a witness had stopped and given their details it would have been a sure thing. Same with a camera.

Either way at this stage there is nothing you can do. No proof and no details.

Cienciano

And cut any video to about 5 seconds before the crash

Wonda-Boy

P.C. wrote: »

MOD MAT ON:

1.) PLEASE DO NOT TELL PEOPLE HOW TO POST ON A FORUM
2.) ATTACK THE POST, NOT THE POSTER.

MOD HAT OFF.

Where did I TELL YOU to do anything? It was merely a suggestion, a "get out of jail free card" if you will. When you have realised that you are wrong it saves alot of backtracking.

And take off the tin hat man no one is ATTACKING YOU just letting you know that even the great and powerful OZ can be wrong.

And in relation to the OP it was not a civil case.

BrokenArrows

paddy147 wrote: »

Just a thought here...but surely a camera on the bike would be fcuk all use if it showed that you were speeding in any sort of way or acting the maggot on the bike..with regards road positioning before the accident???????


Surely you would be lambasted for that????

That's why you edit the footage before handing it over. Just the moments before the accident are relevant.

Cienciano

BrokenArrows wrote: »

That's why you edit the footage before handing it over. Just the moments before the accident are relevant.

IF they had a full video of a spin I'd probably have my bike confiscated, licence taken and thrown in jail :cool:

Fr Dougal

Cienciano wrote: »

IF they had a full video of a spin I'd probably have my bike confiscated, licence taken and thrown in jail :cool:

Hope you don't ride a Kawasaki Versys1000, most people don't realise them yokes have an onboard computer that records loads of statistics including speed and could theoretically be accessed by law enforcers or accident investigators.

Sorry OP for going off topic.

Cienciano

Fr Dougal wrote: »

Hope you don't ride a Kawasaki Versys1000, most people don't realise them yokes have an onboard computer that records loads of statistics including speed and could theoretically be accessed by law enforcers or accident investigators.

Sorry OP for going off topic.

I don't, but would that data stand up in court? You could easily say it's not accurate. My gps once had the max speed traveled at something like 225mph for instance.

paddy147

Cienciano wrote: »

Eoin, at least it wasn't a bad off and you're grand. Not expensive and tbh, just paying yourself isn't too bad. If it was a brand new bike with fairing damage, rearsets, handlebars, bent subframe etc it would have been nasty considering you dont have a chance of claiming.



From what I know the driver was a prick. If they come on and tell us their side of the story that might change, but at the moment he's (or she) is a prick!

You have a lovely attitude towards other road users and your language is just lovely too.....seen as you dont know what,where and how the accident actually happened.


Bravo indeed.

Hotblack Desiato

Paddy147, I don't think your casting doubt on the OP's story is at all helpful.

You have no evidence that they were to blame so why insinuate that? If the car driver's lane change had been safe, the OP would never have needed to brake or indeed take any action at all. Forcing other road users to sweve or brake to avoid you is dangerous driving.

paddy147

ninja900 wrote: »

Paddy147, I don't think your casting doubt on the OP's story is at all helpful.

You have no evidence that they were to blame so why insinuate that? If the car driver's lane change had been safe, the OP would never have needed to brake or indeed take any action at all.Forcing other road users to sweve or brake to avoid you is dangerous driving.

I never said the OP was to blame and Im not casting doubt either,,,please read what I have posted on this thread ( especially post 22 and post 24),and you will clearly see that much.

But there is nothing to state the driver is to blame.

But because a biker comes off his bike on a wet windy night (read opening post again),then the driver is to blame straight away and is deemed worth of being called all sorts of names by some people here.:o

Hotblack Desiato

How about this

paddy147 wrote: »

For all you now that car driver may have indicated out of the bus lane and it was down to a lack of judgement and experience from the biker with regards slowing down and braking on a dark and wet road.....

Is that not casting doubt on the OP?

Explain me this - even if the rider's braking technique caused the wheel to lock, you are overlooking why they had to brake in the first place.

Changing lane in such a way that another road user is forced to brake to avoid you is dangerous driving.

A car (or anything else) driver who changes lane in front of me and forces me to hit the brakes is, by definition, a prick. It is more than a lack of consideration, it is dangerous driving.

paddy147

ninja900 wrote: »

How about this



Is that not casting doubt on the OP?

Explain me this - even if the rider's braking technique caused the wheel to lock, you are overlooking why they had to brake in the first place.

Changing lane in such a way that another road user is forced to brake to avoid you is dangerous driving.

A car (or anything else) driver who changes lane in front of me and forces me to hit the brakes is, by definition, a prick. It is more than a lack of consideration, it is dangerous driving.

Yes,I stated that to a person who clearly is intent on going off on one at the car driver,when the full facts are not known.

The OP clearly says himself that he yanked on the brakes too hard,locked up and went down on a dark,wet and windswept road

But 1 particular member is judge jury and executioner all in 1 with regards the car driver.Not to mention the foul language too.:(




If a biker locks up and comes off his or her bike,then the car driver is not automaticly to blame..the biker also has a responsibility to be in a position to control his or her bike and especially so when the conditions are far from perfect....AWARENESS AND ANTICIPATION...especially vital in wet dark conditions


But that logic and thinking seems to go out the window here with some people,and staright away its the car drivers fault.

Hotblack Desiato

Yet again you are studiously overlooking WHY he needed to brake.

Hotblack Desiato

paddy147 wrote: »

If a biker locks up and comes off his or her bike,then the car driver is not automaticly to blame..the biker has a responsibility to be in a position to control his or her bike and especially so when the conditions are far from perfect.

No other road user has the right to force you to brake or swerve to avoid them. If they do, it is dangerous driving.

ROTR states that you must always give way to traffic already in the lane when changing lane. If they need to brake, you are not giving way.

paddy147

ninja900 wrote: »

No other road user has the right to force you to brake or swerve to avoid them. If they do, it is dangerous driving.

ROTR states that you must always give way to traffic already in the lane when changing lane. If they need to brake, you are not giving way.

Did the car use an indicator???

Did the biker see the indicator??

What speed was biker doing,in relation to road conditions??


Did biker have clear vision and clear line of sight through his visor??

Exactly how and why did the biker go down....human error/missjudgement on bikers part perhaps??...(we have all done missjudged things at some stage)

Had the biker left enough room to the cars in front,to allow for any sudden braking on a dark,windswept wet road??..(double the distance on a wet road and traffic)



Lots of questions there,but as is usual its the car driver fault straight away.

Del2005

paddy147 wrote: »

Yes,I stated that to a person who clearly is intent on going off on one at the car driver,when the full facts are not known.

The OP clearly says himself that he yanked on the brakes too hard,locked up and went down on a dark,wet and windswept road

But 1 particular member is judge jury and executioner all in 1 with regards the car driver.Not to mention the foul language too.:(




If a biker locks up and comes off his or her bike,then the car driver is not automaticly to blame..the biker has a responsibility to be in a position to control his or her bike and especially so when the conditions are far from perfect....ANTICIPATION


But that logic and thinking seems to go out the window here with some people,and staright away its the car drivers fault.

A car, or any vehicle, cutting into my lane at the last moment usually leads to me hitting the anchors. My car has ABS and 4 wheels so usually I'm okay, my bike has no ABS and only 2 wheels.

The reason why everyone is blaming the car is because every biker has had a SMIDSY, something to do with having to ride like every other road user is out to kill you all the time makes you believe that the biker was more aware of what was going on than the driver. It doesn't matter if the bus lane was open or closed, the car driver changed lanes without checking was the lane they wanted to enter safe to enter.

Hotblack Desiato

paddy147 wrote: »

Did the car use an indicator???

Irrelevant. An indicator can never grant the right of way.

Did the biker see the indicator??

Irrelevant. They have right of way in their lane.

Exactly how and why did the biker go down.....(human error on bikers part perhaps)??

They went down because another road user forced them to brake suddenly.

Had the biker left enough room to the cars in front,.to allow for any sudden braking on a dark,windswept wet road??..(double the distance on a wet road and traffic)

The car was not in front of him, it was in another lane. It did not have right of way to enter the rider's path.

Lots of questions there,but as is usual its the car driver fault straight away.

They forced another road user into avoiding action. That is dangerous driving.

eoinkildare

Paddy,
The driver did not indicate. The driver pulled out into my path causing me to brake. The fact that my technique wasn't correct doesn't change who's fault the accident was.
I should never have to adjust my driving because someone else decides to pull into my path.

I was traveling on the road at approx 80km/h, approaching roundabout and so had slowed to approx 40km/h ( I hadn't actually reached the roundabout yet). The car was in the lane beside me, slightly ahead of me. My front wheel was just behind his back wheel.
I would say his driving was prickish, even if the guy had been the nicest fella in the world. As a result of his driving, I'm injured and my bike is damaged.

Eoin

paddy147

ninja900 wrote: »

Irrelevant. An indicator can never grant the right of way.



Irrelevant. They have right of way in their lane.



They went down because another road user forced them to brake suddenly.



The car was not in front of him, it was in another lane.



They forced another road user into avoiding action. That is dangerous driving.

Biker was behind car,car if using indicator was in front and its up to biker to have a duty to see the indicator of the car in front and act accordingly.


Wet roads,traffic and darkness...double the distance too for the biker......no need to lock up and crash.

eoinkildare

paddy147 wrote: »

Biker was behind car,car if using indicator was in front and its up to biker to have a duty to see the indicator of the car in front and act accordingly.


Wet roads,traffic and darkness...double the distance too for the biker......no need to lock up and crash.

Wrong. Using your indicator doesn't entitle you to complete a manouvre. If this was the case, you could put on your indicator at any time and completely absolve yourself of any responsibility for your driving. Silly statement.

Also, as stated by myself and others who have actually read my post, I wasn't behind the car and so stopping distance is irrelevant. If it wasn't irrelevant, then it be impossible to ever overtake any other vehicle.

Also, I never criticised the other driver for being in the bus lane. Nor does it have any bearing on the incident. It could just have easily been a two lane carriageway and have had the same outcome. He entered my lane causing me to brake hard to avoid a collision.

Hotblack Desiato

paddy147 wrote: »

Biker was behind car,car using indicator was in front and its up to biker has a duty to see the indicator of the car in front and act accordingly.

A duty? A frickin' duty??

There is only one person here who has a duty. The car driver has a duty, according to the ROTR and the Road Traffic Act, which is the *law* not your or my opinion, to drive with due consideration for others, and specifically to YIELD to traffic already in the lane when changing lane.

Give it over it's getting beyond silly.

paddy147

eoinkildare wrote: »

Paddy,
The driver did not indicate. The driver pulled out into my path causing me to brake. The fact that my technique wasn't correct doesn't change who's fault the accident was.
I should never have to adjust my driving because someone else decides to pull into my path.

I was traveling on the road at approx 80km/h, approaching roundabout and so had slowed to approx 40km/h ( I hadn't actually reached the roundabout yet). The car was in the lane beside me, slightly ahead of me. My front wheel was just behind his back wheel.
I would say his driving was prickish, even if the guy had been the nicest fella in the world. As a result of his driving, I'm injured and my bike is damaged.

Eoin

Well kiss your backside goodbye then,if thats your attitude.


You also have a duty as a road user to anticipate and avoid an accident and to be able to control your bike too.






You said the car was ahead of you in the opening post.

You also said that you pulled the brake too hard and too jerky and locked up

Inability to control and brake without crashing???


I can only read what you posted in the opening post Eoin.

eoinkildare

So its my duty to be able to anticipate any eventuality? Such as a junk satellite falling from space into my path for instance?
Get real will you.

Not every event is predictable in any practical way, if it is was, there would be no collisions on the road...

No matter how good or experienced I am I will never be able to plan for all eventualities. People on here are saying the car was at fault and was the reason for the collision. If you don't agree, are you saying that the incident would have occurred differently were the car to not have pulled in front of me?

There will always be some incident which could lead to someone having the inability to stop in a controlled manner in enough time. Have you ever walked into someone at a corner for instance??

Cienciano

paddy147 wrote: »

You have a lovely attitude towards other road users and your language is just lovely too.....seen as you dont know what,where and how the accident actually happened.


Bravo indeed.

So let me get this straight. From what we know, a driver pulled out right in front of Eoin without indicating, causing him to brake hard, come off, bust his knee, damage his bike and possibly poo his pants, and the driver kept going (probably didn't notice in fairness) But you're worried about my language towards this driver incase Eoin is telling lies/not telling the full story? Or my attitude towards people who pull out in front of others isn't good enough? Get real. The driver was completely in the wrong. We have one story to go on, it's not like it's far fetched or difficult to believe.

paddy147

eoinkildare wrote: »

So its my duty to be able to anticipate any eventuality? Such as a junk satellite falling from space into my path for instance?
Get real will you.

Not every event is predictable in any practical way, if it is was, there would be no collisions on the road...

No matter how good or experienced I am I will never be able to plan for all eventualities. People on here are saying the car was at fault and was the reason for the collision. If you don't agree, are you saying that the incident would have occurred differently were the car to not have pulled in front of me?

There will always be some incident which could lead to someone having the inability to stop in a controlled manner in enough time. Have you ever walked into someone at a corner for instance??

Its your duty to be able to control and brake your bike without locking up and crashing.