My first crash!

Hotblack Desiato

Paddy, all road users should make allowance for the mistakes of others (especially those of us who ride motorcycles)

BUT...

that does not, and can never, take away blame or responsibility from another road user carrying out an illegal, dangerous or stupid act.
We cannot anticipate all the potential illegal or just plain stupid acts of other road users, not all accidents are avoidable even with perfect anticipation and skill.
Your attempts to shift the blame in relation to this incident, where one party clearly broke the law (and left the scene) are laughable.

eoinkildare

Cienciano wrote: »

and possibly poo his pants.

Haha, how did you know I wasn't telling the full story?!

Cienciano

eoinkildare wrote: »

So its my duty to be able to anticipate any eventuality? Such as a junk satellite falling from space into my path for instance?

Exactly, you can anticipate so much. paddy is talking rubbish. Some lads on here seem to think "anticipate the hazzard and act accordingly" :rolleyes:
As if every accident is avoidable.
I don't think they realise that cars can change lane or pull out in front of you giving you no notice or time to react.

paddy147

eoinkildare wrote: »

Haha, how did you know I wasn't telling the full story?!

So roundabout is ahead..Its dark,windy and wet out.


Car is in bus lane and you in outside driving lane


You say that your front wheel was just behind his back wheel in a previous post....car suddenly pulled out on you


I presume you would be aware of "line of sight and "blind spot""..as per a motorbike instructor teaching you on your road positioning to other cars so that they can see you and you can compensate for any sudden lane changes of another car??


Line of sight and positioning your bike in realtion to a car in a lane beside you is one of the main things any instructor will teach you.




You are then set up for any car that may pull out on you,so you can brake and control your bike in a safe manner,as to avoid locking up and falling off...especially in the dark and wet.

eoinkildare

paddy147 wrote: »

So roundabout is ahead..Its dark,windy and wet out.


Car is in bus lane and you in outside driving lane


You say that your front wheel was just behind his back wheel in a previous post....car suddenly pulled out on you


I presume you would be aware of "line of sight and "blind spot""..as per a motorbike instructor teaching you on your road positioning to other cars so that they can see you and you can compensate for any sudden lane changes of another car??


Line of sight and positioning your bike in realtion to a car in a lane beside you is one of the main things any instructor will teach you.




You are then set up for any car that may pull out on you,so you can brake and control your bike in a safe manner,as to avoid falling off.

In order to pass any other vehicle you are at some point going to have to pass their blind spot. Unless you have some magical method that your instructor taught you?

paddy147

eoinkildare wrote: »

In order to pass any other vehicle you are at some point going to have to pass their blind spot. Unless you have some magical method that your instructor taught you?

But you were slowing down and braking for a roundabout ahead in the dark and wet.

You shouldnt be up that close up to a car in the lane beside you....(line of sight,anticipation and your safety).


The RSA and also any good instructor will tell you and teach you that.


Theres a clear lack of duty,anticipation and care on both sides here (driver and biker).




At least you had the good sense to wear the correct gear.
Learn from the experience,get better asap,get back out on the bike and become a better biker and a more alert biker.


I wish you a speedy recovery.

Cienciano

much better advice is to ignore paddy. Hes dug a hole but cant stop digging

designbydan

Hmm, This thread is starting to stink of Troll just like one a week or two ago about a guy falling off his bike cause of oil on the ground. If I remember right that was all his fault too. . . . . .

. . . . . . . Eoin , You being the only person thats posted that was actually there, I am sure you know best what happened, I wouldn't listen to internet trolls that will take whatever you say and twist it to get a rise from you.

I hope your leg heals up soon and good stuff on the bike not having too much damage.

For what its worth. the car driver does sound like a pr1ck , he should check his blind spots before changing lanes, not just rely on mirrors, for the exact reason of what happened! . at least thats what I learnt in my test.

unclebill98

Op sorry to hear about your spill.

Pain will be worse when you wake up. Nurofen plus is your friend and get back on the saddle ASAP.

paddy147

designbydan wrote: »

Hmm, This thread is starting to stink of Troll just like one a week or two ago about a guy falling off his bike cause of oil on the ground. If I remember right that was all his fault too. . . . . .

. . . . . . . Eoin , You being the only person thats posted that was actually there, I am sure you know best what happened, I wouldn't listen to internet trolls that will take whatever you say and twist it to get a rise from you.

I hope your leg heals up soon and good stuff on the bike not having too much damage.

For what its worth. the car driver does sound like a pr1ck , he should check his blind spots before changing lanes, not just rely on mirrors, for the exact reason of what happened! . at least thats what I learnt in my test.

You have alot to learn from your instructor on your IBT coarse when out on the road with him,and also for your future safety and your RSA bike test too.

Best of luck with the IBT coarse and test.

blu3r0ri0n

Eoin, sorry to read about your spill! Lucky escape dude and I hope that you and the bike are on the mend!

Although not a similar incident; I was involved in a low slide which was completely my fault for not anticipating a drunken driver going the wrong way around a roundabout (more like a small island with palm trees in the middle) with full beams in the middle of the night.

As you can see I clearly failed at my duty as a road user to anticipate and avoid an accident. Needless to say I learned my lesson and have started fine tuning my psychic abilities to an extent that I can now anticipate anything larger than a bird an hour before the incident.

LookBehindYou

Glad you are ok Eoin. Bike can be fixed.

copeyhagen

i think the best lesson that can be learned from this thread before it goes any more off topic is that never rely on a cage driver to actually do what they appear to be doing!!

Cienciano

paddy147 wrote: »

But you were slowing down and braking for a roundabout ahead in the dark and wet.

You shouldnt be up that close up to a car in the lane beside you....(line of sight,anticipation and your safety).


The RSA and also any good instructor will tell you and teach you that.


Theres a clear lack of duty,anticipation and care on both sides here (driver and biker).




At least you had the good sense to wear the correct gear.
Learn from the experience,get better asap,get back out on the bike and become a better biker and a more alert biker.


I wish you a speedy recovery.

How would you go about driving down a 2 lane road, left lane is turn left only and you're going straight ahead, traffic in the left? Presumably you'd slow down and stop in the middle of the lane and put your hazzards on, because judging from your posts you don't think it's ok to pass someone on a 2 lane road

The Don

eoinkildare wrote: »

Where is this cityspares of which you speak?

City Spares is in Cherry Orchard industrial estate in Ballyfermot.

Here're a few more.
First Choice Breakers in Aughrim.

I can highly recommend Paddy Costelloe's Central Motorcycles in Tullamore Zero86 One72 Four056.

There are a few places in Cork too, a quick google will find them.

Try them all if just to compare prices.

paddy147

It might benefit some people here to read this RSA docement.


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Motorcycles/This_is_your_bike.pdf


Page 3-Vulnerability
Page 4-Control
Page 5-Attitude,Behaviour and Responsibility
Page 15-Braking
Page 17-Positioning
Page 19-Hazard Management Skills.



^^^^^^^^^
Difference between life and death there.


Any motorbike instructor worth their salt will tell and teach you you the same thing,both off the bike and on the bike while out on the road while doing the IBT coarse..

designbydan

paddy147 wrote: »

You have alot to learn from your instructor on your IBT coarse when out on the road with him,and also for your future safety and your RSA bike test too.

Best of luck with the IBT coarse and test.

Your "best of luck" was about as condescending as it can get but I'll take it, thanks.

It may suprise you but I've been driving a car for years, the rules of the road are the same for both drivers, coming up to a roundabout where traffic is slowing and traffic will be getting a lot closer to each other, the CAR driver should also turn his head to check his blind spots, along with both mirrors, not just the side mirror.

He should have anticipated a bike could be in his blind spot esp when coming to a junction or roundabout.

It's the car divers fault paddy, get over it. By the sounds of it you must hate riding on your bike, you expect people on here to have above and beyond what are capable reaction times for the average person.

Reacting quickly still won't help you if there's a car on top of you, there's literally nothing else you can do sometimes,

(for the record ive never pulled out infront of a bike, cause I checked my mirrors blind spots/ know how to correctly drive a car)

Ah look at me, feeding the trolls when I said I wouldn't .......



Edited for terrible spelling(stupid iPhone I blame you)

Cienciano

Paddy should send his advice into Viz top tips.

AVOID traffic accidents by simply slowing down and stopping before they happen

KamiKazi

Happens to the best of us, onwards and upwards.

Cuddlesworth

Paddy is trying to convey the concept that in order to avoid future accidents you should be critical of your own actions and be able to take the criticism of others on-board. Had Eoin been aware of his position relative to the car while approaching the roundabout, had been paying closer attention to the driver, had adjusted his speed slightly knowing that conditions are slippery with the leaves and in anticipation of the driver swerving out, he possibly could have avoided the entire ordeal. This concept of learning from your own mistakes is a mainstay of all advanced driving techniques and is the best way to reduce the risk of driving a motorbike. Remember, the only driving you can really change is your own.

What paddy seems to have forgotten is that regardless of what actions Eoin could have taken, the resulting accident does not absolve the car driver of fault and Eoin is not to blame for being forced into that position.

paddy147

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Paddy is trying to convey the concept that in order to avoid future accidents you should be critical of your own actions and be able to take the criticism of others on-board. Had Eoin been aware of his position relative to the car while approaching the roundabout, had been paying closer attention to the driver, had adjusted his speed slightly knowing that conditions are slippery with the leaves and in anticipation of the driver swerving out, he possibly could have avoided the entire ordeal. This concept of learning from your own mistakes is a mainstay of all advanced driving techniques and is the best way to reduce the risk of driving a motorbike. Remember, the only driving you can really change is your own.

What paddy seems to have forgotten is that regardless of what actions Eoin could have taken, the resulting accident does not absolve the car driver of fault and Eoin is not to blame for being forced into that position.

There is fault and a care of duty on both sides here,as I posted allready.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81836059&postcount=65




You obviously didnt read what I have posted in relation to what Eoin has since said about the accident.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81836108&postcount=67


If you read thre RSA PDF and then look at what Eoin has posted,then yes,there is a lack of care and duty on both sides (car driver and motorbiker).


Sorry if it sounds harsh and you dont like reading it,but thats how it is.


Biker has a duty too,in relation to the accident and his road positioning.



Take it on the chin,accept some responsibility,learn from the accident and get back to the biking asap.

minidazzler

Paddy, do you ever read your posts and think "I can make this more preachy". I believe every one of us accept that a motorbike isn't the most inherently safe way to travel. That does NOT absolve anyone else on the road of being a bad driver. We all think what we could have done different, but that doesn't necessarily make it our own fault when something happens.

I had a small off on some gravel when I just started in September, I was travelling far too fast around bend which I had no idea what was around them. That's my own fault.... What happened Eoin sounds like from his telling that it was the fault of the other driver, and given we've all been cut off at some point, it's not hard to imagine how it happened.

Never mind thinking drivers of cars don't actually understand the inherent risks of cutting off a motorbike, we don't skid to a stop and maybe slightly mount a kerb, we come straight off with our bodies!

So, all in all, stop fooking preaching, it's annoying.

Cienciano

paddy147 wrote: »

There is fault and a care of duty on both sides here,as I posted allready.......

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81836059&postcount=65




You obviously didnt read what I have posted in relation to what Eoin has since said about the accident.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81836108&postcount=67


If you read thre RSA PDF and then look at what Eoin has posted,then yes,there is a lack of care and duty on both sides (car driver and motorbiker).


Sorry if it sounds harsh and you dont like reading it,but thats how it is.


Biker has a duty too,in relation to the accident and his road positioning.



Take it on the chin,accept some responsibility,learn from the accident and get back to the biking asap.

What you're saying doesn't sound harsh, it sounds stupid. And for a good reason! You think passing someone on a 2 lane road is wrong!
You're a small step away from saying that it was Eoins fault for getting out and driving that day. After all, if he stayed at home the accident wouldn't have happened - therefore he's responsible for the accident.
At least you're now saying it was both peoples fault. Earlier it was

paddy147 wrote: »

But there is nothing to state the driver is to blame.

Anyway, I'm finished with this thread. The plus point is that Eoin got away lightly, (just dodgy knee and soiled underpants) and practicly everyone knows paddy is talking shíte, so win win! (except for whoever cleans the pants)

designbydan

Cienciano wrote: »

(except for whoever cleans the pants)

Just buy new ones dude. that sale posted a few threads back is still on. . if you can find the right sizes.

or at a minimum buy the wife/gf/mammy lol. something nice after she's cleaned them for ya haha

paddy147

Cienciano wrote: »

What you're saying doesn't sound harsh, it sounds stupid. And for a good reason! You think passing someone on a 2 lane road is wrong!
You're a small step away from saying that it was Eoins fault for getting out and driving that day. After all, if he stayed at home the accident wouldn't have happened - therefore he's responsible for the accident.
At least you're now saying it was both peoples fault. Earlier it was

Anyway, I'm finished with this thread. The plus point is that Eoin got away lightly, (just dodgy knee and soiled underpants) and practicly everyone knows paddy is talking shíte, so win win! (except for whoever cleans the pants)

Bike positioning,Blindspot,line of sight and awareness.....(especially on a dark wet road)

^^^^^^^^^^^
I will say it again and point you towards what Eoin has now said (since his 1st post) about his fall accident/crash (being that close up to the car in a bus lane,coming down to a roundabout and on dark wet road and locking up his brakes).


Then try reading the RSA PDF and the key pages that I posted.


http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Motorcycles/This_is_your_bike.pdf


Page 3-Vulnerability
Page 4-Control
Page 5-Attitude,Behaviour and Responsibility
Page 15-Braking
Page 17-Positioning
Page 19-Hazard Management Skills.




There is lack of duty/care/awareness on both sides (driver and biker).
Biker also has a responsbility and should be aware of these factors.A motorbike instructor and also the RSA will tell you the same thing.





Take it on the chin,get better,get the bike fixed,get back out biking and learn from the accident to become a better biker and have more awareness in the future.

Cuddlesworth

paddy147 wrote: »

Then try reading the RSA PDF and the key pages that I posted.

Is this the same RSA that put a AD on TV, which told my GF if she gets into the car with me she would die.

The same org who over and over changed their position on lane usage on roundabouts.

The same safety organisation who's head is a notorious drunk driver, who feels he is above using a seatbelt and has no relevant qualifications or experience for the role?

I would suggest if you really want to talk about advanced driving, feel free to quote some decent material and not a PDF from that gutless pile of trash.

paddy147 wrote: »

There is lack of duty/care/awareness on both sides (driver and biker).
Biker also has a responsbility and should be aware of these factors.A motorbike instructor and also the RSA will tell you the same thing.

He was in the correct lane and was cut up by car in the wrong. Regardless of what actions he may have taken, his responsibility was taken care of by driving appropriately. You have completely misread any basic instruction you may have gotten about good driving techniques and if anything are doing harm in regards getting a good message out.

paddy147 wrote: »

Take it on the chin,get better,get the bike fixed,get back out biking and learn from the accident to become a better biker and have more awareness in the future.

You would have been much better off just saying that.

Wonda-Boy

Paddy any chance you can start doing IBT and instructing riders....there would be no need for insurance as we would never crash

daenerysstormborn3

P.C. wrote: »

Legally you would probably have to take a civil case.
You can win, but it would be hard to prove.

Handing it over to your insurance company is not going to get you anywhere.

I'm not going to name cases as that would jeopardise my position but I have worked on cases where there was no contact and same were settled either with insurance companies or through court cases. If you are forced to take evasive action by another road user then the other road user can be held liable.

paddy147

Wonda-Boy wrote: »

Paddy any chance you can start doing IBT and instructing riders....there would be no need for insurance as we would never crash

I know I know....can you also imagine a world with no solicitors or lawyers either.:pac::D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWTp0BnNq00

eoinkildare

Alright gentlemen,
I was away the last few days so haven't been replying to all the posts and well wishers, apologies for that!

Anyway, I went to global distributors in Santry and bought a new clutch lever for €8. Fitted it myself and all seems fine. Just have to fine tune the cable setting as I think the clutch cable is being pulled slightly when the lever is completely open. Maybe the clutch cable got slightly stretched or damaged or something so might have to be changed but I'll figure it out tomorrow when I get a proper look at it.

That Global Distributors seems fairly decent.

Cheers again,

Eoin