Should alcohol be banned based on available evidence?

jasonmcco

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

I think it should be up for discussion in the light of the growing calls for marijauna to be legalised.

In addition to this if you think it should be legal to sell alcohol do you think it should be legal to sell marijauna?

hatrickpatrick

Consenting adults should not be legally prevented from doing anything which affects only those who are consenting, IMO

krudler

It worked so well in the 20's in America.

bobs knobs

coffee is more dangerous than weed. ban harder drinks like vodka etc and legalize weed i say.

AnarchistKen

No beer and no TV make Homer go....something....something...

jester77

Look at the countries where alcohol is prohibited. They are not exactly paradises, maybe a bit of alcohol might even help them chill a bit. Not exactly what we should be aspiring to!

keithclancy

Weed stinks, some of the stronger strains actually make be feel sick if I get a bang of it walking down the street.

I don't mind as long as you do it in your own home (I won't be calling around) , I think it should be banned in public places though.

Neighbour plants smelt manky during the summer.

Beer is also banned for consumption in public places, but it doesn't stink.

Spunge

If it was only discovered right now, there wouldn't be much to argue against it.
However its too ingrained into society for it to actually work and not just be a huge failure.

Yakult

Nah it should stay the way it is and legalize cannabis. What needs to change is the attitude towards drink. The facts are there for everyone to see, its causes quiet amount of problems yet poor old cannabis gets a right doing, cant recall anyone ever dying to smoking too much of it, can you?

keithclancy wrote: »

Beer is also banned for consumption in public places, but it doesn't stink.

But the piss/puke on doorsteps/street from idiots the next morning is pretty bad smelling..

iDave

Politicans dont run the country, Vintners do.

No, because it would take a lot of the enjoyment out of living.

Tombi!

What I'm seeing from that website is that Ireland's attitude towards drinking is the problem.
If I want to drink myself into a hangover the next morning in the privacy of my own home, let me do it.

DazMarz

If alcohol was made illegal, it would simply give criminals another product to market. In the USA in the 1920's, Prohibition gave rise to organised crime and they welcomed it with open arms.

In every society there are desires for a certain commodities. If those commodities cannot be supplied through legitimate means, someone will step in to provide them illegitimately. Once there is a demand, someone will create a supply. It is an economic certainty.

The risk:reward ratio also comes into play. Why do you think people risk getting sent to prison for supplying illegal narcotics? Because the reward they can gain (ie. money) outstrips the risk. And it is like trying to fight a hydra; arrest one drug dealer and destroy his operation, a few more will spring up to fill the gap that has been left.

There is nothing to gain from making alcohol illegal, except for enterprising criminals who will make an absolute killing in providing cheap, dangerous liquor to the public at large.

mrDerek

lol its not such a simple question should it be banned as the single biggest income for the government would be dead over night.

Yakult

Exactly, prohibition does not favor anyone other than the criminals.

bobs knobs

restrict the age for buying spirits maybe but not beer!!

keithclancy

Yakult wrote: »

But the piss/puke on doorsteps/street from idiots the next morning is pretty bad smelling..

Thats an Irish problem, isn't such an issue over here.

iamstop

AnarchistKen wrote: »

No beer and no TV make Homer go....something....something...

One of the most misquoted lines ever from The Simpsons. There is no 'go' in the line Homer says.

Marge finishes his sentence by saying "go crazy?"

Homer: Don't mind if I do. *does crazy sh1t*

Pedantic boy accepts your apology. :pac:

jasonmcco

jester77 wrote: »

Look at the countries where alcohol is prohibited. They are not exactly paradises, maybe a bit of alcohol might even help them chill a bit. Not exactly what we should be aspiring to!

We are talking about banning alcohol not becoming muslim.
Did you have a look at link provided?

Question again, based on evidence available about problems associated with alcohol do you think it should be banned?

mathepac

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Consenting adults should not be legally prevented from doing anything which affects only those who are consenting, IMO

i if you're locked or stoned and can't go to work, that's OK?

If you're locked or stoned (whitey) and throw up all over the bus or taxi or restaurant, that's OK too?

If you're locked or stoned and injure yourself in a fall or trip and break a bone you don't want an ambulance, doctor or hospital called?

If you die because you choke on your own vomit, we should tell your family & friends that it's OK and not to be upset?

If you injure or kill someone in a drunken brawl or run someone down when you're stoned at the wheel, that's OK too because you are exercising your freedom?

No to legalising any other "recreational drugs" until we sort out the social and medical disaster that is alcohol consumption.

mathepac

bobs knobs wrote: »

restrict the age for buying spirits maybe but not beer!!

21 for both, ID produced for each order and for entry to licensed premises as in some parts of the US.

keithclancy wrote: »

Thats an Irish problem, isn't such an issue over here.

Not uniquely Irish, the Brits have it too but in greater measure.

TPD

mathepac wrote: »

i if you're locked or stoned and can't go to work, that's OK?

If you're locked or stoned (whitey) and throw up all over the bus or taxi or restaurant, that's OK too?

If you're locked or stoned and injure yourself in a fall or trip and break a bone you don't want an ambulance, doctor or hospital called?

If you die because you choke on your own vomit, we should tell your family & friends that it's OK and not to be upset?

If you injure or kill someone in a drunken brawl or run someone down when you're stoned at the wheel, that's OK too because you are exercising your freedom?

No to legalising any other "recreational drugs" until we sort out the social and medical disaster that is alcohol consumption.

Do you actually believe that anyone thinks these examples would be OK?

mathepac

jasonmcco wrote: »

... Question again, based on evidence available about problems associated with alcohol do you think it should be banned?

As a first step we need to enforce the laws we have - don't serve drunks, don't serve children / underage drinkers, no drinking on the streets, no drunkenness on the streets.

If that doesn't work then consider banning it.

jasonmcco

Spunge wrote: »

If it was only discovered right now, there wouldn't be much to argue against it.
However its too ingrained into society for it to actually work and not just be a huge failure.

Were not intelligent enough to remove a dangerous substance from society

I think that is an argument primarily used by users to end discussion.

keithclancy

mathepac wrote: »

i if you're so fat that you can't go to work, that's OK?

If you eat too much chocolate and throw up all over the bus or taxi or restaurant, that's OK too?

If your a complete fatty and you injure yourself in a fall or trip and break a bone you don't want an ambulance, doctor or hospital called?

If you die because you choke on your own vomit, we should tell your family & friends that it's OK and not to be upset?

If you eat someone in a drunken eating frenzy or run someone down when you're eating chocolate at the wheel, that's OK too because you are exercising your freedom?

No to legalising any other "recreational drugs" until we sort out the social and medical disaster that is chocolate consumption.

Ban Chocolate ?
:pac::pac::pac::pac:

Porkchop McGee

Alcohol isn't the problem, it's your average Irish gob****e's attitude towards it which is.

bobs knobs

mathepac wrote: »

21 for both, ID produced for each order and for entry to licensed premises as in some parts of the US.

so 21 is grand for a bottle of absynth? i say learn to crawl before you can walk.

mathepac

TPD wrote: »

Do you actually believe that anyone thinks these examples would be OK?

I am responding to a poster who thinks being a consenting drinker amongst other consenting drinkers is OK. I am challenging that thinking. Does this pose you some insurmountable intellectual dilemma?

Drunks & stoners must at some stage come into contact with others who are not in their intoxicated state. Is it OK with you if their behaviour when intoxicated effects our lives?

Boombastic

Yes. It's a gateway drug and most people who drink it are alcoholics.

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

Drunks & stoners must at some stage come into contact with others who are not in their intoxicated state. Is it OK with you if their behaviour when intoxicated effects our lives?

Stoners being notoriously energetic and fighty.

mathepac

bobs knobs wrote: »

so 21 is grand for a bottle of absynth? i say learn to crawl before you can walk.

I have no idea what absynth is. Maybe you mean absinthe and I say maybe you should use more water and the appropriate stirring device before further consumption.

Most of the myths surrounding absinthe consumption are just that, myths - or is that meths?

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

21 for both, ID produced for each order and for entry to licensed premises as in some parts of the US.

Oh stop, raising the drinking age to 21 would do nothing but increase the underage drinking figures for the country and asking everyone for ID all the time is just painful nonsense, slowing down service, slowing down getting into places, no thanks.

The fact people are even talking about it being banned it really pointless as thankfully it will never ever happen.

mathepac

Deleted User wrote: »

Stoners being notoriously energetic and fighty.

If you say so, I'll take your word.

mathepac

Jaxx Clean Bill wrote: »

Oh stop, raising the drinking age to 21 would do nothing but increase the underage drinking figures for the country and asking everyone for ID all the time is just painful nonsense, slowing down service, slowing down getting into places, no thanks. ...

Not based on my experiences in a number of states in the US. People become accustomed to the initial minor inconvenience and quickly adapt.

What are the underage drinking figures for this country BTW?

Anyone

jasonmcco wrote: »

http://alcoholireland.ie/alcohol-facts/alcohol-related-harm-facts-and-statistics/

I think it should be up for discussion in the light of the growing calls for marijauna to be legalised.

In addition to this if you think it should be legal to sell alcohol do you think it should be legal to sell marijauna?

That "evidence" is pretty one sided. It doesnt mention the income it generates for the gov, the number of people employed by its production/sale etc.
It also fails to point out that a large proportion of people would still be virgins without it, and an even larger proportion would never have been conceived without it!

bobs knobs

mathepac wrote: »

I have no idea what absynth is. Maybe you mean absinthe and I say maybe you should use more water and the appropriate stirring device before further consumption.

Most of the myths surrounding absinthe consumption are just that, myths - or is that meths?

auto correct has a lot to answer for alright. how dare you question my sobriety. you don't like valid points do you?

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

Not based on my experiences in a number of states in the US. People become accustomed to the initial minor inconvenience and quickly adapt.

What are the underage drinking figures for this country BTW?

I'd rather do without the minor inconvenience in the first place because its pointless nanny state carry on.

I don't know the figures but you can be sure they will rocket as people in the 18-21 age group will want to drink and rightly so.

positron

I am all for individual choice etc, but as a society we should prioritise if we want to spend our money supporting someone drinking and issues raising from it, or providing scholarship for a bright but poor student so that he/she can go on and have a fair crack at life and perhaps make it better for everyone.

How much of our A&E crowding and general HSE spending is due to alcohol related issues or direct alcohol abuse? Tax alcohol direct and indirectly until every single penny we spend on supporting people who drink alcohol comes from alcohol - that might help as a starting point.

ejmaztec

bobs knobs wrote: »

so 21 is grand for a bottle of absynth? i say learn to crawl before you can walk.

After a bottle of that, you probably might not manage to crawl.

positron

positron wrote: »

How much of our A&E crowding and general HSE spending is due to alcohol related issues or direct alcohol abuse? Tax alcohol direct and indirectly until every single penny we spend on supporting people who drink alcohol comes from alcohol - that might help as a starting point.

* Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007 - that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland

* Treating alcohol-related injuries and diseases cost the healthcare system an estimated €1.2 billion - around 8.5% of the total annual healthcare budget
Each night, 2,000 hospital beds are occupied for alcohol-related reasons

* 10% of all general in-patient hospital costs, 7% of GP costs and up to 30% of emergency department costs are alcohol-related

* An estimated €1.2 billion of tax payers’ money is spent on dealing with alcohol-related crime including violence and vandalism

* An estimated €527 million is lost on alcohol-related absenteeism and accidents in the work place

* Beyond the immeasurable human costs, each fatal car collision is estimated to cost the state €3 million. In 2007, alcohol-related road collisions cost an estimated €526 million

* A 30% reduction in alcohol-related harm would save taxpayers an estimated €1 billion a year, according to the Chief Medical Officer of Ireland

Un-fecking-believable. Has anyone wondered why this issue doesn't get enough air-time on the media? In this day and age, those figures are downright disgusting.

keithclancy

positron wrote: »

* Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland an estimated €3.7 billion in 2007 - that’s a cost of €3,318 on each person paying income tax in Ireland

* Treating alcohol-related injuries and diseases cost the healthcare system an estimated €1.2 billion - around 8.5% of the total annual healthcare budget
Each night, 2,000 hospital beds are occupied for alcohol-related reasons

* 10% of all general in-patient hospital costs, 7% of GP costs and up to 30% of emergency department costs are alcohol-related

* An estimated €1.2 billion of tax payers’ money is spent on dealing with alcohol-related crime including violence and vandalism

* An estimated €527 million is lost on alcohol-related absenteeism and accidents in the work place

* Beyond the immeasurable human costs, each fatal car collision is estimated to cost the state €3 million. In 2007, alcohol-related road collisions cost an estimated €526 million

* A 30% reduction in alcohol-related harm would save taxpayers an estimated €1 billion a year, according to the Chief Medical Officer of Ireland

Un-fecking-believable. Has anyone wondered why this issue doesn't get enough air-time on the media? In this day and age, those figures are downright disgusting.

Drink driving was all the rage back in the day (15 years ago) now its seen as a disgusting taboo with shame attached to it.

I'd say thats a big change.

positron

^^^ The above says 2007. Five years ago, not 15. So, I guess that's still very relevant.

Knasher

I don't think alcohol should be banned. As people have already said, the only group it helps are the criminals. What I would like to see is everyone needing some sort of card in order to buy alcohol, and if they are problem drunks they could be excluded from buying alcohol in the future for a time. That might cut down on the worst parts of the antisocial behavior caused by alcohol, without turning half the country into criminals and providing a lucrative new market for smugglers.

I would like to see marijuana legalized. Again the main beneficiaries of the ban are the criminals making money off it. I've also long been of the opinion that the ban promotes harder drug usage, by making the users criminals you will have people reasoning that "in for a penny, in for a pound", as well as probably introducing them to the means of getting harder drugs.

TeddyTedson

I wish it was banned. It's so annoying that it's everywhere in this country. It gets boring. I wish I could get my friends doing other things than drinking every weekend.

keithclancy

positron wrote: »

^^^ The above says 2007. Five years ago, not 15. So, I guess that's still very relevant.

It was the bit where you said:

Un-fecking-believable. Has anyone wondered why this issue doesn't get enough air-time on the media? In this day and age, those figures are downright disgusting.

RSA Campaigns for drink driving got a shed load of airtime/media coverage and have done over the years.

Duggy747

GOOD GRIEF NOO!!

*hugs slab of beer*

Anyways, you ban something then the ones who clean up are the cwiminals and people start clogging up the courts even more.

mathepac

Knasher wrote: »

I don't think alcohol should be banned. As people have already said, the only group it helps are the criminals. ...

I haven't said that. You might want to point out how many others have.

Banning alcohol would have an immediate benefit for me. I wouldn't have to pay for drunks clogging up emergency services and staff in hospitals at week-ends, step through pools of urine and vomit and could walk the streets safely after closing time at night, without running the risk of being accosted or assaulted by drunks.

Knasher wrote: »

... That might cut down on the worst parts of the antisocial behavior caused by alcohol, ....

If you see that "antisocial behaviour" is the worst effect that alcohol has on our society then I'm afraid you must have your eyes and ears firmly shut to reality.

Alcohol causes death and injury on an unprecedented scale in this country and kills more people than all other drugs, legal and illegal, combined.

The cost in monetary terms and in health and lives is staggering.

Knasher wrote: »

... I've also long been of the opinion that the ban promotes harder drug usage, by making the users criminals you will have people reasoning that "in for a penny, in for a pound", as well as probably introducing them to the means of getting harder drugs.

That may be your opinion and you're entitled to hold it, but I'm afraid there is nothing to back it up.

zenno

If alcohol was banned then people would just make their own in their home. Time for a pint of home-brew me thinks.

Legalize marijuana though.

mathepac

keithclancy wrote: »

... RSA Campaigns for drink driving got a shed load of airtime/media coverage and have done over the years.

Any RSA campaigns I have seen were against drink-driving, not for it.

keithclancy

mathepac wrote: »

Any RSA campaigns I have seen were against drink-driving, not for it.

Shonkiest post ever.

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

I haven't said that. You might want to point out how many others have.

Banning alcohol would have an immediate benefit for me. I wouldn't have to pay for drunks clogging up emergency services and staff in hospitals at week-ends, step through pools of urine and vomit and could walk the streets safely after closing time at night, without running the risk of being accosted or assaulted by drunks.

Instead you would be paying the dole money for the 1000's of bar workers, brewery workers, delivery drivers etc etc who would be out of work due to drink no longer being served along with the increased presence of the illegal drink trade which will make streets more unsafe with crime leves increasing massively due to the increase in illegal drink supplying gangs etc.

Drink related assaults on innocent people are very small, yes they happen but so do non-drink related ones. The vast majority of drink related assaults, fights etc are not one sided and both parties involved usually contribute.

Stepping over a bit of p*ss or vomit every now and again is hardly the end of the world, seeing a bit of vomit usually brings a laugh out of us and few comments like "he has seen better days" etc.