Spectre (Bond 24)

Avatar MIA

Rotten Tomatoes have ranked all the Bond movies and have Craig's Skyfall and Casino Royal in first and second place respectively, which I'd not argue with. Despite Skyfall's plot holes it was an excellent cinematic experience.

QOS was ranked 13th out of 26.

Spectre was ranked 18th!

It's overall rating is down to 62% and I suspect it'll drop further.

I thought it was a poor effort on leaving the cinema. On reflection, especially compared to CR and Skyfall I was being generous.

Riddle101

Here's a question.

What was the deal with Blofeld showing Madeleine Swann the camera footage of James Bond with her father Mr White? James was really desperate for her not to see the video, almost like he betrayed or something. But the video didn't exactly show anything she wouldn't have known already. I half thought that they altered the video to make it look like James Bond killed Mr White and use it to turn her against him, bit they didn't.

FunLover18

Riddle101 wrote:

Here's a question.

James told her that her father killed himself, he failed to mention that he gave him the gun that allowed him to do so and pretty much said "tell me what you know, kill yourself and I'll look after your daughter". She got over it fairly handy anyway so I don't know why they bothered

super_furry

Thought it was more a case of

no-one should ever see their father kill themselves. It was pretty ham-fisted though, like most of the movie.

Corholio

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Rotten Tomatoes have ranked all the Bond movies and have Craig's Skyfall and Casino Royal in first and second place respectively, which I'd not argue with. Despite Skyfall's plot holes it was an excellent cinematic experience.

QOS was ranked 13th out of 26.

Spectre was ranked 18th!

It's overall rating is down to 62% and I suspect it'll drop further.

I thought it was a poor effort on leaving the cinema. On reflection, especially compared to CR and Skyfall I was being generous.

Never got some of the love for Skyfall at all, I certainly enjoyed Casino Royale more. The Scottish hideaway ending I thought was particularly dreadful, not only in execution but in any even exaggerated movie common sense wise. I hated the 'lets use isolated places to show tension' dynamic that was in the film.

Baggy Trousers

Corholio wrote: »

Never got some of the love for Skyfall at all, I certainly enjoyed Casino Royale more. The Scottish hideaway ending I thought was particularly dreadful, not only in execution but in any even exaggerated movie common sense wise. I hated the 'lets use isolated places to show tension' dynamic that was in the film.

I absolutely agree with that. That last 20 minutes was dreadful. Ruined a good movie otherwise.

eviltimeban

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I absolutely agree with that. That last 20 minutes was dreadful. Ruined a good movie otherwise.

I disagree - the more I see that section of the movie, the more I like it. It showed Bond was resourceful and not reliant on gadgets or major fire power. (it was a bit dumb of the groundskeeper to walk around with a torch though)

super_furry

Yeah that was my reading of it. It was a plot device to strip Bond of all his gadgets, weaponary and support and show that at the heart of everything, he's a legitimate badass secret agent.

Baggy Trousers

eviltimeban wrote: »

I disagree - the more I see that section of the movie, the more I like it. It showed Bond was resourceful and not reliant on gadgets or major fire power. (it was a bit dumb of the groundskeeper to walk around with a torch though)

Jaysus No, even when watching it in the cinema I was praying for it to end. Cheese central. Very poor ending. I have seen it since and wondered how the directors/editors couldn't see how ridiculous and incredulous it all looked. Casino Royale was way better.

e_e

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6JFUWgiGwc

Really interesting reading of the movie, gonna have to reconsider my opinion now.

seligehgit

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

I absolutely agree with that. That last 20 minutes was dreadful. Ruined a good movie otherwise.

Yes it was a pretty ham fisted ending but I don't think I'd go as far as to say it ruined an otherwise very good flick.

Giruilla

e_e wrote: »

This review is fairly spot on, Spectre just gets worse the more I look back on it.

Excellent review! I cannot believe the bias reviews the film got in the UK (Kermode, Peter Bradshaw).. glad to see the US are pullings its RT's score down.

FunLover18

Here's a very good breakdown of the opening figures and how it actually compares Prisoner of Azkaban and Skyfall. Interesting to note that Spectres weekend figures are lower and the Mon-Thursday figures showing that word of mouth may not be as good as had been suggested on here.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2015/nov/03/spectre-magic-makes-harry-potter-uk-box-office-record-disappear

efb

At Spectre, so bored

dastardly00

efb wrote: »

At Spectre, so bored

Get the fcuk off your phone, as I'm sure others are enjoying it.

fin12

dastardly00 wrote: »

Get the fcuk off your phone, as I'm sure others are enjoying it.

well if his phone is on silent and he has the brightness of his screen turned down, I dont see what the problem is, hes just sent a message.

Avatar MIA

efb wrote: »

At Spectre, so bored

Serves you right after reading our reviews

efb

Not topless once!!!

fin12

efb wrote: »

Not topless once!!!

Hi efb, remember you from my pringles thread, haha, how long more is left in the film?

efb

fin12 wrote: »

Hi efb, remember you from my pringles thread, haha, how long more is left in the film?

It's over. Pringles???

fin12

efb wrote: »

It's over. Pringles???

Ya they were 1 euro. :)

efb

fin12 wrote: »

Ya they were 1 euro. :)

They were tasty, unlike this movie

Avatar MIA

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20151106-is-daniel-craigs-bond-tired-and-dull

Apart from Bond, Kermode's reputation will take a battering as well

micks_address

Avatar MIA wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20151106-is-daniel-craigs-bond-tired-and-dull

Apart from Bond, Kermode's reputation will take a battering as well

I've thought about spectre a lot since seeing it last week.. Its not awful but when you consider the talent involved it's dissapointing.. For Craigs bonds in order are sky fall, casino royale , spectre, quantum.. For me at least

Looper007

Avatar MIA wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20151106-is-daniel-craigs-bond-tired-and-dull

Apart from Bond, Kermode's reputation will take a battering as well

I would be questioning the U.S critic's more. The worse Bond film ever? come on, let's not get carried away here. It's no CR or SF but it sure in hell isn't as bad as Die Another Day, Moonraker, Diamonds are Forever, A View to a Kill etc...

Kermode is entitled to a opinion like the rest of us. Why should his reputation take battering.

Avatar MIA

Looper007 wrote: »

Kermode is entitled to a opinion like the rest of us. Why should his reputation take battering.

Most people without 007 in their name can see it was a VERY flawed movie, yet Kermode was gushing about it.

Looper007

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Most people without 007 in their name can see it was a VERY flawed movie, yet Kermode was gushing about it.

He wasn't the only one though that gave it top marks, Peter Bradshaw in the Guardian did so did a few others. this is only been bought up because American critic's didn't like it.


I'm guessing you are taking a pop at me, Am I saying it's not a flawed film, i wasn't blown away by it, I wrote about it on here. It's certainly not the worst Bond film ever. Anyone saying it is haven't delved into the Bond canon cause their is a few stinkers in there.

As I said everyone is entitled to a opinion and Kermode is entitled to his. I dislike like that someone reputation should be ruined cause he gave his opinion on a film.

sonic85

This was just boring and to say that about any bond film is criminal really. I didn't like skyfall that much but it was never boring. There were parts of this where I found myself just looking around wondering when the feck it was going to end.

There was so many things wrong that it just ruined the experience for me and I've been really looking forward to this for months.

In my opinion casino royale is Craigs best and probably the best bond ever made but for me since then it's been going steadily downhill. Mendes hasn't done a whole lot for the franchise in general I think and I hope he's replaced for the next film.

Eva green is the best bond girl ever - Seydoux isn't fit to lace her boots. Boring and drab character with virtually no redeeming features. All my own opinion of course. Others will have a different view

ButtersSuki

sonic85 wrote: »

This was just boring and to say that about any bond film is criminal really. I didn't like skyfall that much but it was never boring. There were parts of this where I found myself just looking around wondering when the feck it was going to end.

There was so many things wrong that it just ruined the experience for me and I've been really looking forward to this for months.

In my opinion casino royale is Craigs best and probably the best bond ever made but for me since then it's been going steadily downhill. Mendes hasn't done a whole lot for the franchise in general I think and I hope he's replaced for the next film.

Eva green is the best bond girl ever - Seydoux isn't fit to lace her boots. Boring and drab character with virtually no redeeming features. All my own opinion of course. Others will have a different view

Mmmmmm. Eva Green.........:):):):)

Spectre isn't the worst Bond ever - not by a long shot. As mentioned by more than one poster, there are some pretty awful movies if you go back through the Bond vault. It is however (IMO at least) the worst "Craig as Bond" movie, even the oft (and over) derided Quantum of Solace is better. If only they had stuck to the formula they created in Casino Royale and left Bond as a dark and dreary emotionally dysfunctional conflicted character

Casino's Bond would have executed Blofeld on the bridge without hesitation - that's the Bond I want to see

. Instead they seem to want a happy ending - at the rate we're going the next Bond will be James getting married, settling down, having kids, coaching the local Under 8 rugby team and his biggest crisis will be what wine to get delivered from Tesco with this week's groceries. :mad:

StringerBell

Not exactly the right thread for it I guess, but I rewatched QOS recently and still don't get the extreme hate it got/gets, is it because it is basically a revenge movie? A more direct sequel then you would usually associate with Bond? Is it cause it was more action then thought?

It is a hell of a lot of fun really and I must say I enjoyed the re watch probably more then I remembered liking it the first time around, I was a big fan of License to Kill also though which was not your typical Bond film either. I have yet to watch Spectre, but for my moneys worth Craig hasn't had a "bad" outing yet as Bond.

Hoping it keeps up when I do get around to watching Spectre

sonic85

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Mmmmmm. Eva Green.........:):):):)

Spectre isn't the worst Bond ever - not by a long shot. As mentioned by more than one poster, there are some pretty awful movies if you go back through the Bond vault. It is however (IMO at least) the worst "Craig as Bond" movie, even the oft (and over) derided Quantum of Solace is better. If only they had stuck to the formula they created in Casino Royale and left Bond as a dark and dreary emotionally dysfunctional conflicted character

Casino's Bond would have executed Blofeld on the bridge without hesitation - that's the Bond I want to see

. Instead they seem to want a happy ending - at the rate we're going the next Bond will be James getting married, settling down, having kids, coaching the local Under 8 rugby team and his biggest crisis will be what wine to get delivered from Tesco with this week's groceries. :mad:

agree with all this. sorry if my post came across as if I thought spectre was the worst instalment of bond - that's not the way it was intended!

like you though I definitely thought it was craigs worst outing. I also thought QOS was decent - this though was pretty poor

FunLover18

StringerBell wrote:

Is it cause it was more action then thought?

Personally it's my favourite of Craig's outings because of this and not because and not because I want just action but because it fits with Bond's arc perfectly. Bond is a secret agent who's just had the love of his life corrupted and taken away from by a criminal organisation. His reaction isn't going to be to infiltrate and spy on the them, he has a licence to kill ffs and zealous for killing people related to Quantum rather than questioning them is referenced throughout the film. People give out about the water plot but it's the subplot of the movie and merely acts as the introduction to Quantum (Greene being the tip of the iceberg), the main plot being Bond's emotional journey to being the emotionally detached spy we all love. As I've mentioned earlier it's why CR and QoS being bookended by the two different gun barrel sequences is a stroke of genius.

Sorry to keep harping on about it but like you I don't understand the hatred towards QoS.

ButtersSuki

FunLover18 wrote: »

Personally it's my favourite of Craig's outings because of this and not because and not because I want just action but because it fits with Bond's arc perfectly. Bond is a secret agent who's just had the love of his life corrupted and taken away from by a criminal organisation. His reaction isn't going to be to infiltrate and spy on the them, he has a licence to kill ffs and zealous for killing people related to Quantum rather than questioning them is referenced throughout the film. People give out about the water plot but it's the subplot of the movie and merely acts as the introduction to Quantum (Greene being the tip of the iceberg), the main plot being Bond's emotional journey to being the emotionally detached spy we all love. As I've mentioned earlier it's why CR and QoS being bookended by the two different gun barrel sequences is a stroke of genius.

Sorry to keep harping on about it but like you I don't understand the hatred towards QoS.

I don't hate QoS!

For me each of Craig's Bond movies have been inferior to the previous one, with Casino being the best.

The one I'm always confused about is the love for Skyfall!!! That I don't get!

Riddle101

So I decided to watch rewatch all the Craig James Bonds again. Watched Casino Royale on Friday, and QoS last night, and i'll watch Skyfall tonight. I honesty don't get the hate for QoS though. I mean it had a good amount of action, some good character development for Craig's Bond, and the story was alright too. It wasn't perfect but I think it's quite underrated at the same time. Now initially I didn't care too much for it, but on my second watch I appreciated it a lot more.

fin12

I hate both QOS and Skyfall. I think this is way better than the last two but I prob wont bother watching it again.

Sad Professor

I haven’t seen Spectre yet but based on the reviews and my feelings about Skyfall, I'm expecting to hate it.

QoS while deeply flawed is probably going to look better as years go on. I think people took the Casino Royale approach that it continued for granted at the time, not expecting the franchise to reverse course so quickly.

StringerBell

Riddle101 wrote: »

So I decided to watch rewatch all the Craig James Bonds again. Watched Casino Royale on Friday, and QoS last night, and i'll watch Skyfall tonight. I honesty don't get the hate for QoS though. I mean it had a good amount of action, some good character development for Craig's Bond, and the story was alright too. It wasn't perfect but I think it's quite underrated at the same time. Now initially I didn't care too much for it, but on my second watch I appreciated it a lot more.

Thats what I was doing too, rewatching the Craig ones before seeing Spectre and found myself really enjoying QoS for the most part, maybe it was due to the massive success of CR and hype that surrounded it that made the next one pretty much guaranteed to be seen as a let down in many peoples eyes?

Banjaxed82

Wasn't great. Pull away all the James Bond baggage and it was no great shakes, especially the 2nd half of the movie.

There's a distinct lack of fun factor when it comes to the current 007. I'm not looking for Roger Moore era, but it currently takes itself so serious, I can't get with it.

Baggy Trousers

QoS was almost unwatchable. Anyone who liked that one has Bond tinted glasses on. The stupid plane scene alone ruined it.

If I was on death row and they gave me the option of watching QoS before the lethal injection or taking the lethal injection immediately, I'd demand 2 lethal injections everytime.

Looper007

ButtersSuki wrote: »

Mmmmmm. Eva Green.........:):):):)

Spectre isn't the worst Bond ever - not by a long shot. As mentioned by more than one poster, there are some pretty awful movies if you go back through the Bond vault. It is however (IMO at least) the worst "Craig as Bond" movie, even the oft (and over) derided Quantum of Solace is better.

No one can beat Green, only Diana Rigg was given a meatier role. But the Green's Vesper is iconic.

For me Spectre is in my top 15, I've seen it twice and I will buy it when it comes on DVD but I doubt I be rewatching it like I do CR and SF or even QOS.

I love QOS and I rate it very highly, I do agree on the editing been all over the place, that the Villain and his hetchman isn't much cop and Gemma Arterton is probably the weakest Bond girl in Craig's films. But I love the film for the fact that it has probably Craig's best performance and it has the most kick ass version of Bond played by any actor, yes including peak Connery. One of the reasons I say that, the scene in when Craig's Bond let's the bodyguard on top of the opera house go, without a second notice fixes his cuffs and turns around and walks off, not giving a damn. I also love how dark and downbeat it is. Plus it has probably the saddest moment aside from M's death in Skyfall and that is Mathis death. Also it's the last time we've seen Jeffery Wright's Felix, shame for not bringing him back. I also liked Olga Kurylenko as Camille, a underrated Bond girl who could kick ass.


I think this will be the Bond film many will fight it's corner more in Craig's canon more then Spectre.

Smertulitanus

you only live twice reboot

Riddle101

With Blofeld being reintroduced I wonder will we see more Bond villains from the past in future films. Namely Dr No and Goldfinger.

Japandamo

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

QoS was almost unwatchable. Anyone who liked that one has Bond tinted glasses on. The stupid plane scene alone ruined it.

If I was on death row and they gave me the option of watching QoS before the lethal injection or taking the lethal injection immediately, I'd demand 2 lethal injections everytime.

I laughed at this. I look forward to the next opportunity to steal the death row scenario for myself.

Saw Bond today. To be honest I'd forgotten a lot of the back story from the last couple of films so in places I had to work hard to try to remember what was going on. I enjoyed the action and if I switched off my brain the movie was pretty good, but there were maybe three parts that nearly had me shouting at the cinema screen.

In third we have the girl deciding she can't take this life just after they've reunited with M and the gang in the safe house. Would you not hang on for the evening and wait until all this 'omnipresent evil intelligence agency' business is put to bed? No, I think I'll just walk into the night on my own through London. Which isn't where I live.

In second, we have the evil mastermind Blofelt who has been watching Bond's progress for the length of his career, pulling the strings, making his loved ones die. And seen how he escapes from tricky situations against all odds. Surely to Christ it would have been prudent to at least tie up the girl. And surely it would have been harder on James if he'd been drilling her head, and she couldn't recognise him before she died? And kill him without her knowing who he was? Not that that brain drilling worked anyway. I'd be looking for a refund on that gear and on the neurosurgery classes.

And in first place we have a series of crudely drawn arrows especially for James to follow through the former MI6 headquarters. I'm no spy, but surely the clever thing to do would be to...not follow the trail that has been left for me by these nasty baddies? Maybe then he would have found the girl upstairs. Maybe he could have popped in behind Blofelt. That would have been awkward. Or maybe Madeline could have been tied up a bit better. You know, chains or something. Maybe she could have already been dead...oooh. I don't know, I feel they were really struggling for ideas on that whole scene.

There were other parts, for one the fact that there is still a lady waiting for him to come back to the hotel room in Mexico City.

Just my opinion. Nobody else I know has seen it, and it's been killing me not having anyone to talk to about it. Thanks for compensating for my lack of friends, and sorry if I've brought up points raised already.

Overall I'd rate it a 6.5/10, but that's including an extra half point for the tentacle porn in the opening credits. You don't see half enough of that on the big screen.

Diairist

I agree.

If you're in a helicopter trying to kill an assassin, why turn your back on him to thump the pilot. And then go back to hitting the assassin. And then thump the pilot again? Almost wrecked the extremely impressive Mexico City scene.

Visually though it has loads to recommend it.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Harry Palmr

People take this stuff far too seriously - James Bond is a throwaway fantasy. Some are better than others, you take your chances every time you pay for a ticket.

After the opening US weekend the estimated global tally is just under 300 million dollars so it'll wash its face.

LaGlisse

This was way too long, by at least 30 minutes, i groaned when i realised that there was going to be an extended london based ending.
It certainly isnt the worst but it was just dull. The Craig Bonds just take themselves far too seriously, they tried introducing a bit of fun this time but it jarred with the seriousness of the rest of the film.
Another thing with the 4 Craig Movies, there really hasnt been that many memorable action sequences, certainly nothing to stand alongside Goldeneyes Dam jump, Living daylights hanging out the back of a Plane ending or the skiiing of a cliff scene from whichever film that was.
Seems like Mission Impossible is the franchise to go to now if you wasnt memeorable stunts

fin12

Did anyone else think it made no sense when

he was fighting with that guy on the helicopter and started to attack the pilot as well at the same time, surely he should just kill of the other guy first before attacking the pilot and should the helicopter not have crashed or cut out with all the pressure it was put under, doesn't make any sense to me

.

StringerBell

Baggy Trousers wrote: »

QoS was almost unwatchable. Anyone who liked that one has Bond tinted glasses on. The stupid plane scene alone ruined it.

If I was on death row and they gave me the option of watching QoS before the lethal injection or taking the lethal injection immediately, I'd demand 2 lethal injections everytime.

Such a flair for the dramatic is wasted on a mere message board!

Tony EH

I can only echo what others have said on here and the "what have you watched thread", 'Spectre' one big, dumb, ass of a film.

Unfortunately it isn't an enjoyable big, dumb, ass of a film and goes a long way to undoing all the good they've done with the franchise since Craig's tenure at the helm. It's unfortunate, as the opening is quite good and there are definitely things to like in there, but it tries to be too spectacular, becomes annoyingly silly and ends up knocking 'Quantum of Solace' off the bottom spot in this iteration of the series.

However, why they felt the need to neuter Craig's Bond into a (retro) wise cracking "superhero", I don't know. They spent three films making him the best (and most "realistic") Bond, then destroy it all in one go. All of the great ground work done in 'Casino Royale' etc, blown to bits in an idiotic "rollyoureyes" fest, that chose paths it just didn't have to take.

'Spectre' felt closer to one of those awful 80's Roger Moore efforts than it did to the previous three films and while I'm sure that may please some people, that kind of stuff doesn't fly these days. I'm not sure it flew in the 80's either.

Mark Kermode in his 4/5 review said he found a lot of laughs in 'Spectre'. I only found one and I don't think I was supposed to laugh at it.

Lea Seydoux says "I love you" to Bond. :rolleyes: You only met a couple of days ago FFS.

And some elements are confusing...

what exactly was the plan in going to Blofeld's gaff? Just to see what would happen?

I heard that Craig doesn't want to do any more Bond films. I don't think I do either.