Spectre (Bond 24)

Skylinehead

HankScorpio1985 wrote: »

You mean the ****e old bond formula of the Connery films that were very similar in style to Fleming's books?

Actually, Dalton's Bond would be the one I'd say was most like Fleming's original.

Dayum

indough wrote: »

And if Michael Bay's version of Downton Abbey is better then you stick with it. Staying loyal to the source material means **** all, all that matters is making the better film

Just because a movie is set in the 60's doesn't automatically mean it has to be ridiculously bad by default. You're comparing the old Bond films to the new one's when the oldies were shot in a different era of film. All movies from those days were shot similarly as are todays. Look at Django - a movie set during the early 1800's and it's not only beautiful to look at in terms of cinematography, but also the writing. Let's not get confused - when the Flemming group shouts for a return to the original James Bond it doesn't mean they want to shoot the movie on a toaster or completely throw out modern technology and cinematography techniques.

HankScorpio1985

eviltimeban wrote: »

No I think he means the list posted above, with the usual tropes rolled out - the henchmen, the lair, the gadgets etc.

Fleming's Bond was one thing but does Bond have to stick to that formula? Can't he move on? Otherwise it would be set in the 60s and have Bond smoking his specially-made cigarettes and getting his suits in Savile Row.

Nothing wrong with getting a suit from Saville Row. No, I do agree that he has to move on but this is a reboot of the franchise with Casino Royale being the first film. While it has to be in a modern setting I do think it should stick to to a lot of Fleming's ideas of Bond. Just set in 2014. As for your examples...
Henchmen: what rich person doesn't have a bodyguard these days?
Lair: A big house in a secluded location away from prying eyes. Usually what most rich private people want
Gadgets: My smartphone can remind me what to pick up from the shop when it recognises I'm close by. Gadgets are surely a staple for any decent spy.

indough

Dayum wrote: »

Just because a movie is set in the 60's doesn't automatically mean it has to be ridiculously bad by default. You're comparing the old Bond films to the new one's when the oldies were shot in a different era of film. All movies from those days were shot similarly as are todays. Look at Django - a movie set during the early 1800's and it's not only beautiful to look at in terms of cinematography, but also the writing. Let's not get confused - when the Flemming group shouts for a return to the original James Bond it doesn't mean they want to shoot the movie on a toaster or completely throw out modern technology and cinematography techniques.

I'm not sure what you are saying here.

also, Django shot in the 1800s?
edit: oh sorry set

yes I don't care about the setting of the 60's, it was the rubbish storylines that make them bad films

HankScorpio1985

Skylinehead wrote: »

Actually, Dalton's Bond would be the one I'd say was most like Fleming's original.

True. And if you're being picky you'd say DC was next in line in terms of similarity followed by Connery. I was including the films style and setting as well in my statement.

HankScorpio1985

indough wrote: »

yes I don't care about the setting of the 60's, it was the rubbish storylines that make them bad films

Do you include From Russia With Love and Goldfinger in that?

eviltimeban

The only thing a bit silly about the premise for the new movie is that he'll be driving a new Aston Martin DB10. If the new Bond is set in a more realistic world, would an Mi6 agent go around in such an expensive car? Unless they work it into the plot.

Regarding the use of the DB5 in Skyfall, I took it to be that it had belonged to his father, and he partly used because they were "going back in time".

bigar

indough wrote: »

I can't understand how anyone would actually want that ****e old bond formula back

Why? Because that is what a Bond movie is to me. The same as a Star Trek movie needs starships and transporter beams, the Pink Panther needs Inspecter Closeau, the Lord of the Rings needs wizards and orcs. That is what that type of movie is about.

The last "Bonds" were movies yes, with some action (or a snorefest as is the case for the last two), but no Bond movie. I don't mind that they keep on making the movies as they do now but give us a proper Bond movie as well.

eviltimeban

bigar wrote: »

Why? Because that is what a Bond movie is to me. The same as a Star Trek movie needs starships and transporter beams, the Pink Panther needs Inspecter Closeau, the Lord of the Rings needs wizards and orcs. That is what that type of movie is about.

The last "Bonds" were movies yes, with some action (or a snorefest as is the case for the last two), but no Bond movie. I don't mind that they keep on making the movies as they do now but give us a proper Bond movie as well.

Describe a "proper" Bond movie.

bigar

eviltimeban wrote: »

Describe a "proper" Bond movie.

As already mentioned in my previous post:

- The billionaire in a secret laird who wants to take over the world
- The Henchman with a nice novel way of killing people
- The gadgets
- The one liners
- “Now pay attention 007”
- The car with a lot of extras

ricero

Dayum wrote: »

I like Daniel Craig and I enjoyed his interpretation of Bond except for QoS...

But with that being said, I agree with Quentin Tarantino in that the direction the franchise has gone may not be the right one for the future. James Bond in Flemings eyes was no superhuman that Hollywood have continually portrayed starting with Brosnan. Brosnan's Bond was cringeworhy. I'm glad they toned that down with Craig but as Tarantino stated Bond is supposed to be a period drama piece with thriller elements - not a full blown all-out action movie that wouldn't look out of place in a Michael Bay production.

I love Christoph Waltz and I know he's going to save this movie. The man could sit, ramble about paint drying and still have you on the edge of your seat. His role as the Nazi in Inglorious Bastards was a cruel, evil f*cker but he developed such an eccentric character you couldn't help but like him.

If I was Eon I'd give the Bond franchise to Tarantino and his cinematographers for the reboot. Break new ground by having a black 007 - Denzel Washington or someone with Michael Fassbender, Liam Neeson or Benedict Cumberbatch as the villain.

Your ideas are terrible

humanji

bigar wrote: »

As already mentioned in my previous post:

- The billionaire in a secret laird who wants to take over the world
- The Henchman with a nice novel way of killing people
- The gadgets
- The one liners
- “Now pay attention 007”
- The car with a lot of extras

So, "Die Another Day"?

eviltimeban

bigar wrote: »

As already mentioned in my previous post:

- The billionaire in a secret laird who wants to take over the world
- The Henchman with a nice novel way of killing people
- The gadgets
- The one liners
- “Now pay attention 007”
- The car with a lot of extras

So you want the same movie over and over?

Dayum

ricero wrote: »

Your ideas are terrible

What ideas?

James Bond will be black in the near future. This has been common knowledge for the best part of a decade. The only question is who? Idris Elba was the forefront for a while. Washington said he wanted to be Bond two weeks ago. In fact I'd be hugely surprised if the next Bond actor wasn't black.

Second, Tarantino wanted to direct Casino Royale but Eon didn't give it to him. It's no secret he's a great admirer of the classic Bonds and as someone that sits in Flemmings corner I know he may be the only one with the passion to bring that back.

Lastly, Cumberbatch and Fassbender are two actors I admire particularly playing villains and I'd have no reservations about playing Bonds nemesis.

None of my above statements were controversial in anyway. Not sure whats so terrible about them. If you want what I think you want, go and watch Mission Impossible of the Bourne series. Because that's not Bond.

Jumboman

Dayum wrote: »

What ideas?

James Bond will be black in the near future. This has been common knowledge for the best part of a decade. The only question is who? Idris Elba was the forefront for a while. Washington said he wanted to be Bond two weeks ago. In fact I'd be hugely surprised if the next Bond actor wasn't black.

Second, Tarantino wanted to direct Casino Royale but Eon didn't give it to him. It's no secret he's a great admirer of the classic Bonds and as someone that sits in Flemmings corner I know he may be the only one with the passion to bring that back.

Lastly, Cumberbatch and Fassbender are two actors I admire particularly playing villains and I'd have no reservations about playing Bonds nemesis.

None of my above statements were controversial in anyway. Not sure whats so terrible about them. If you want what I think you want, go and watch Mission Impossible of the Bourne series. Because that's not Bond.

Bond should not even be blond never mind black.

After they have a black James Bond they will then want a female Bond.

This is just political correctness gone mad.

AnonoBoy

Jumboman wrote: »

This is just political correctness gone mad.

Bond was Scottish for a while if you remember.

I presume you have a problem with that too.

pixelburp

Jumboman wrote: »

Bond should not even be blond never mind black.

After they have a black James Bond they will then want a female Bond.

This is just political correctness gone mad.

Leave political correctness out of this, Idris Elba would make a fantastic action lead, be the character named Bond or not. James Bond is just a male ego trip anyway, his appearance is ultimately immaterial: why should it matter if he was black, blonde or blue-eyed?

Jumboman

pixelburp wrote: »

Leave political correctness out of this, Idris Elba would make a fantastic action lead, be the character named Bond or not. James Bond is just a male ego trip anyway, his appearance is ultimately immaterial: why should it matter if he was black, blonde or blue-eyed?

It matters because that is not the description of James Bond Ian Fleming gives in the books.

This is what Fleming thought Bond should look like.

Daniel Craig looks nothing like that.

Also Bond is not meant to be a body builder either like Craig is.

bnt

I see no point getting hung up on exactly how Bond should look. Fleming himself modified Bond's back story in response to the movies, giving him Scots ancestry to reflect Sean Connery's on-screen portrayal of Bond.

Besides, who looks like Hoagy Carmichael these days? Closest I can think of is Benedict Cumberbatch.

eviltimeban

Don Draper?

BuilderPlumber

eviltimeban wrote: »

It might be internal - it might be based in England. As per the synopsis, "While M battles political forces to keep the secret service alive, Bond peels back the layers of deceit to reveal the terrible truth behind SPECTRE".

So it could be some hidden organisation that exists within the secret service. Even if it is that, we know he has to do a bit of skiiing to get there.

Actually I like the idea of a journey that sends him around the world and then back to England - though this would be very similar to the arc in Skyfall. But one of my favourite things about Skyfall was the London setting.

Yes. While we have seen the rogue agent before in the likes of Goldeneye and the infiltration of a secret service in Quantum of Solace, the latter storyline could be expanded more of course. The 'terrible truth' behind SPECTRE must hint that it is created, controlled or assisted by someone or some organisation Bond knows and trusts as an ally?? The hint is that some political force supposedly allied to the secret service is the problem here.

HankScorpio1985 wrote: »

They didn't get fleeced. Bond killed Greene and Medrano was killed so there was no coup in Bolivia I imagine. Although we have no idea how it played out there after QoS. Mr. White is still at large and we have no idea who is behind it all as you say.

Hopefully, this is what the new film will sort out. Mr White should feature again and Quantum could become SPECTRE (which would reflect real world terrorists like al Qaeda morphing into ISIS in Iraq/Syria). Clearly, the intention was to recreate a SPECTRE style organisation with Quantum and now they have legal right to the name, they can use it and have Quantum become part of or all of it.

In Fleming's original books, SPECTRE was comprised of various elements drawn from SMERSH, other communist secret services, the mafias of Italy and Corsica, ex Nazis and other criminals. Blofeld was given a background as a Polish opportunist with Nazi dealings and obviously N0. 2 man Largo was Italian mafia. Not much background was given in the films but Largo in Thunderball obviously talked, looked and acted like the mafia don he was. I wonder what the new SPECTRE will comprise of. Obviously, a lot of the original sources are no longer relevant.

AnonoBoy

Jumboman wrote: »

It matters because that is not the description of James Bond Ian Fleming gives in the books.

And what about the Scottish accent or is it only looks that you're stubbornly rigid on?

humanji

Jumboman wrote: »

It matters because that is not the description of James Bond Ian Fleming gives in the books.

This is what Fleming thought Bond should look like.

Daniel Craig looks nothing like that.

Also Bond is not meant to be a body builder either like Craig is.

In fairness, he's also a racist, homophobic, misogynist prick, but they changed all that because times have changed. The Bond of the books was largely forgotten in the movies. And each iteration of Bond in the movies has been different. A black guy playing Bond is no different to a blonde haired guy playing him if the mannerisms are relatable to what we expect.

FunLover18

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Hopefully, this is what the new film will sort out. Mr White should feature again and Quantum could become SPECTRE (which would reflect real world terrorists like al Qaeda morphing into ISIS in Iraq/Syria). Clearly, the intention was to recreate a SPECTRE style organisation with Quantum and now they have legal right to the name, they can use it and have Quantum become part of or all of it.

In Fleming's original books, SPECTRE was comprised of various elements drawn from SMERSH, other communist secret services, the mafias of Italy and Corsica, ex Nazis and other criminals. Blofeld was given a background as a Polish opportunist with Nazi dealings and obviously N0. 2 man Largo was Italian mafia. Not much background was given in the films but Largo in Thunderball obviously talked, looked and acted like the mafia don he was. I wonder what the new SPECTRE will comprise of. Obviously, a lot of the original sources are no longer relevant.

It would cool if SPECTRE was an ISIS like terrorist cell created by Quantum in order to allow them to gain more. Create an enemy only they will be able to destroy sort of thing.

FunLover18

Brilliant!! Empire are reporting that Mr White will return in SPECTRE

OldeCinemaSoz

Blofeld is back. Kevin McClory must be either dead or given up. Anyways our character actor friend from the Tarantino double header will give it a good go.

Another Oscar perhaps?

ricero

Any rumours to who is doing the theme tune ? Id love either Noel Gallagher or Lana del ray to sing it

Dayum

ricero wrote: »

Any rumours to who is doing the theme tune ? Id love either Noel Gallagher or Lana del ray to sing it

Sam Smith apparently.

OldeCinemaSoz

ricero wrote: »

Any rumours to who is doing the theme tune ? Id love either Noel Gallagher or Lana del ray to sing it

How about Annie Lenox?

Iranoutofideas

A black Bond is the stupidiest idea I've ever read in relation to this series.

miralize

Muse need to do it.

Skerries

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

A black Bond is the stupidiest idea I've ever read in relation to this series.

Colin Salmon was earmarked at one stage, which I think is why he was used as Bond in Little Britain

FunLover18

Dayum wrote:

Sam Smith apparently.

Aw hell no!!!

Dayum

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

A black Bond is the stupidiest idea I've ever read in relation to this series.

Regardless of whether you think it's a stupid idea or not, there is no use fighting it. Just accept it and embrace it because it's inevitable.

fitz

I'd like to see them address the actor changeover as part of the plot.

Craig's movies have an overall arc...why not have that arc build to a climactic challenge in his last movie, with him saving the day while not wiping out Spectre entirely, but barely surviving the effort and having to retire through injury.
The next actor then takes on the "Bond" identity.
essentially use it as an alias...have them assign people to the 007 alias who fit a type and skill set. Establish the James Bond name as a code name in the same manner as 007.

You could then have scope to kill a Bond. Hell, you could even do it with Craig, with the Bond name retention being an MI6 nod to his sacrifice.

On the topic at hand, Elba would be a great Bond. He's got the same kind of physical presence and charisma as Connery imo.

drugstore cowboy

fitz wrote: »

On the topic at hand, Elba would be a great Bond. He's got the same kind of physical presence and charisma as Connery imo.

Age is against him though. 42-43 I think and when you factor in the wait until the final Craig movie and a new one being made he'd be getting on a bit.

FunLover18

Elba will never be Bond he's too old. The best shout for a black Bond is Chiwetel Ejiofor

Dayum

fitz wrote: »

I'd like to see them address the actor changeover as part of the plot.

Craig's movies have an overall arc...why not have that arc build to a climactic challenge in his last movie, with him saving the day while not wiping out Spectre entirely, but barely surviving the effort and having to retire through injury.
The next actor then takes on the "Bond" identity.
essentially use it as an alias...have them assign people to the 007 alias who fit a type and skill set. Establish the James Bond name as a code name in the same manner as 007.

You could then have scope to kill a Bond. Hell, you could even do it with Craig, with the Bond name retention being an MI6 nod to his sacrifice.

On the topic at hand, Elba would be a great Bond. He's got the same kind of physical presence and charisma as Connery imo.

Interesting.

Craig dying at the end of the movie would be massive in terms of publicity. I remember during Casino Royale everyone was saying how Bond was getting married. It would just be a swerve nobody expects and a genuine cliffhanger to set up the intro of the new Bond in the next movie.

Iranoutofideas

Dayum wrote: »

Regardless of whether you think it's a stupid idea or not, there is no use fighting it. Just accept it and embrace it because it's inevitable.

Eh no thanks. When Hollywood go down that route they can get lost. Next you'll have a female bond, a gay Bond etc just for the sake of being politically correct.

I'd rather see the series die than that happen.

pixelburp

Jumboman wrote: »

It matters because that is not the description of James Bond Ian Fleming gives in the books.

This is what Fleming thought Bond should look like.
[...]

So basically Bond should look like Ian Fleming himself? Definitely adds more evidence that the books were nothing more than wish fulfilment - on the part of the author anyway.

Funny thing, ordinarily I'd agree with you about a character's appearance - Jack Reacher was a good recent example of casting that completely missed the point, where the appearance informed the character itself, but James Bond is a cultural icon that has transcended well beyond the original material. He doesn't 'belong' to the novels any more, no more than Sherlock Holmes exists solely within the cultural space of literature. Both characters exist in a big open pot of pop-culture, away from their origins.

Holmes barely looks to the same from adaptation to adaptation, though the character remains the same. Nobody questions if Holmes' hair is correct as long as the man still behaves like a sociopath. Besides, ask 100 people to describe James Bond and they won't talk about his hair colour, they'll describe the character and his qualities: the quips, drinking, womanising, gadgets etc.

Dayum

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Eh no thanks. When Hollywood go down that route they can get lost. Next you'll have a female bond, a gay Bond etc just for the sake of being politically correct.

I'd rather see the series die than that happen.

You've no choice in the matter. It's happening. End of.

FortuneChip

Dayum wrote: »

You've no choice in the matter. It's happening. End of.

It's hardly "end of". You're taking rumours and speculation and running them as common knowledge and facts.
Elba hasn't been rumoured any more than Hardy or Fassbender (and others).

I'd be pretty open to Elba being cast; I think he'd be getting the role based on his acting ability and style rather than a black actor for the sake of it. As someone said, Bond is known for his characteristics and I think Elba could embody them.
Denzel Washington said he'd like to be Bond? Now that's laughable for several reasons, and sounds like something thrown out there just to build dialogue about Bond's ethnicity.

I think it's a little late for Fassbender to get attached (upsetting as I placed a little bet on him to take over before Craig extended his deal).
Jamie Dornan is very likely going to be linked after 50 Shades comes out next year, no opinion one way or the other on him, and if they want a direct replacement for Daniel Craig, Dan Stevens would probably slip in unnoticed.

As for this Bond, I'm a massive fan of Christoph Waltz, but I do hope he's a little less "likable" and a little more sinister and menacing than his previous roles. That said, he could just twirl his mustache for an hour and I'll be entertained.

eviltimeban

I think the only realistic way a male black actor could be introduced to the Bond franchise would be with the reintroduction of the Quarrel character. He could play another Mi6 agent, an ally of Bond. I've always thought it would be a good idea for Bond to have an ally in the field, who doesn't die or turn against him.

Therefore you could hire your charming, wannabe-Bond black actor. I have no issue with Bond himself being black but I just don't see it happening. However I think someone like Idris Elba as Quarrel would be great; there could be some great trade offs and competition with Bond.

Jumboman

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Eh no thanks. When Hollywood go down that route they can get lost. Next you'll have a female bond, a gay Bond etc just for the sake of being politically correct.

I'd rather see the series die than that happen.

For the sake of political correctness the next James Bond should be played by a traveler;)

fitz

Dayum wrote: »

Interesting.

Craig dying at the end of the movie would be massive in terms of publicity. I remember during Casino Royale everyone was saying how Bond was getting married. It would just be a swerve nobody expects and a genuine cliffhanger to set up the intro of the new Bond in the next movie.

That's what I was thinking, would be a genuinely ballsy way to end Craig's involvement, and seeing him die with "Bond" becoming the 007 agent's assumed name would mean that no future Bond is ever really safe.

FunLover18

fitz wrote: »

That's what I was thinking, would be a genuinely ballsy way to end Craig's involvement, and seeing him die with "Bond" becoming the 007 agent's assumed name would mean that no future Bond is ever really safe.

I don't understand why an MI6 agent would need 2 code names?

Iranoutofideas

Dayum wrote: »

You've no choice in the matter. It's happening. End of.

Oh hello is that you Barbara Broccoli? :rolleyes:

BuilderPlumber

Jumboman wrote: »

For the sake of political correctness the next James Bond should be played by a traveler;)

John Connors (aka Patrick Ward in Love/Hate) should be the next Bond. The name's Bond, boss, James Bond. Licence to pipebomb

BuilderPlumber

eviltimeban wrote: »

I think the only realistic way a male black actor could be introduced to the Bond franchise would be with the reintroduction of the Quarrel character. He could play another Mi6 agent, an ally of Bond. I've always thought it would be a good idea for Bond to have an ally in the field, who doesn't die or turn against him.

Therefore you could hire your charming, wannabe-Bond black actor. I have no issue with Bond himself being black but I just don't see it happening. However I think someone like Idris Elba as Quarrel would be great; there could be some great trade offs and competition with Bond.

Felix Leiter of course provided the Bond ally in the field. Funnily enough, his character was played by both black and white actors throughout the series!

MillField

Looking forward to this. If it's half as good as Casino Royale/Skyfall I'll be happy. Quantum of Solace I can take or leave.