Evans Waterless Coolant Group Buy

Very decent of you to reply there Goz

Chris_Heilong

dont forget it also has the advantage of being able to remove the radiator cap without burning your face off.:)

goz83

There are deifinitely more advantages, which is why I am getting it. I would gladly pay the full price for this stuff, but obviously I prefer to pay less

unkel

Evans claims that using the waterless coolant reduces fuel consumption (and emissions - they claim up to 9% reduction in diesel trucks :eek:)

How?

Marlow

unkel wrote: »

Evans claims that using the waterless coolant reduces fuel consumption (and emissions - they claim up to 9% reduction in diesel trucks :eek:)

How?

One example:

Radiator fan-on time, which draws in the range of 25 horsepower, can be cut more than 50 percent. This saves about 1.37 gallons of diesel per hour of fan run time.

Kenny Logins wrote: »

http://www.evanscooling.com/heavy-duty/benefits/

What?

/M

goz83

I got my car terracleaned last week. It improves fuel economy too. My FTO will be the most fuel efficient one on the road

unkel

Marlow wrote: »

One example:

Yeah saw that. I can't see how a radiator fan for a truck would use 25bhp. And I can't see why you would only need to use the fan half of the time compared to an engine cooled with regular coolant.

Not sure about trucks, but in normal cars the radiator fan would rarely come on at all in normal driving conditions

goz83

unkel wrote: »

Not sure about trucks, but in normal cars the radiator fan would not come on at all in normal driving conditions

Don't they come on alot when the engine is just idling?

Our man in Havana

goz83 wrote: »

Don't they come on alot when the engine is just idling?

Only in very hot conditions.

unkel

unkel wrote: »

............. And I can't see why you would only need to use the fan half of the time compared to an engine cooled with regular coolant....

From the link "A 7% fuel economy improvement was gained by raising fan-on temperature to 230°F -resulting in reduced fan-on time -in a yearlong test conducted with a fleet of Connecticut refuse trucks."

As the boiling point of the stuff is higher the fan doesn't need to come on at the same temp as if it was actually water cooled, refuse trucks would be slow moving and under load when full of compressed refuse. That fuel saving wouldn't be expected with a car I'd imagine.

unkel wrote: »

.......
Not sure about trucks, but in normal cars the radiator fan would rarely come on at all in normal driving conditions..

Fan would come on regularly enough in most petrol cars when stuck in traffic when the rad isn't getting much airflow across it

Lots of Ka out there have the fan wired to be on all the time as the switch fails on them
Also the much mentioned BMW viscous fan issue is indicative of the fact the actual fans are required often.

Our man in Havana

This thread is shilltastic.

goz83

Our man in Havana wrote: »

This thread is shilltastic.

LOL.

Well I promise I have nothing to do with Evans and i'm not in the motor industry. I was just helping to arrange a group buy with the fto club and thught I would expand the offer to boardsies. Thanks to here, I got a 10% discount from the terraclean guy.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

From the link "A 7% fuel economy improvement was gained by raising fan-on temperature to 230°F -resulting in reduced fan-on time

Wouldn't that need a modification of the ECU? Hardly fair to compare that to an unmodified water cooled system. Higher boiling temperature of the Evans coolant is one thing, but to modify the car so the engine runs hotter (program it to do less cooling) might not be a very good idea at all (I would imagine it invalidates the warranty for a start)

RoverJames wrote: »

That fuel saving wouldn't be expected with a car I'd imagine.

It's a pity they don't state that on their site

I can see benefits of the Evans coolant, but for a normal car in daily use, I say it's just a waste of money

^^^^^

I agree with all of your points
Especially with the last one.

Our man in Havana

I shall stick with antifreeze.

Turbulent Bill

unkel wrote: »

I can see benefits of the Evans coolant, but for a normal car in daily use, I say it's just a waste of money

I wonder whether it would be any advantage for diesel cars in reducing the warm-up time of the engine? Lower heat capacity of coolant leading to quicker heating times, achieving optimal MPG quicker etc. For bog-standard cars in a temperate climate like ours this is probably more advantageous than having better high-temp cooling.

Would hardly be worth it financially in fuel savings compared to the coolant cost though, and I'm sure there's other things I'm missing.

Mycroft H

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Only in very hot conditions.

Mine will come on if it's left idling long enough in any weather. Depends on the car, size of radiator I suppose.

Turbulent Bill

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I wonder whether it would be any advantage for diesel cars in reducing the warm-up time of the engine? Lower heat capacity of coolant leading to quicker heating times, achieving optimal MPG quicker etc. For bog-standard cars in a temperate climate like ours this is probably more advantageous than having better high-temp cooling.

Would hardly be worth it financially in fuel savings compared to the coolant cost though, and I'm sure there's other things I'm missing.

Effect on engine warm up time would be minimal as the engine is warmed up to optimal temp well before the full volume of coolant is thanks to the stat toggling as required.

Kenny Logins

Marlow wrote: »

One example:





/M

I'm not a scientician, but I find it hard to believe that the power to spin an electric fan can draw as much as 25hp from a diesel engine...

bmstuff

RoverJames wrote: »

So to answer my actual question, there is no difference and this stuff doesn't offer any superior corrosion protection to a system treated with traditional coolant/water mix changed within advised timelines ???

The main point is greatly reduced pressure, and lack of water for corosion.
My car cooling system runs at 30psi, it is common to burst a rad every 50k miles on mine. High pressure is the main problem that this coolant takes care of.

unkel

Turbulent Bill wrote: »

I wonder whether it would be any advantage for diesel cars in reducing the warm-up time of the engine? Lower heat capacity of coolant leading to quicker heating times

That's not how it works. During warm-up of the engine, the engine is not cooled at all! The thermostat is closed. Once the engine reaches normal operating temperature, the thermostat is opened to allow coolant flow and cool the engine.

bmstuff wrote: »

The main point is greatly reduced pressure

There's nothing wrong with a little bit of pressure in the cooling system. There's very little point in trying to bring the pressure down for most cars in normal operating circumstances. 30 PSI seems to be very high though for a typical cooling system?

bmstuff wrote: »

and lack of water for corosion

As others have stated, there will be no corrosion in the cooling system of a daily used car in normal circumstances filled with the correct mix of water and anti-corrosion that is changed every few years

And the benefits from the Evans coolant not being toxic and the claim it saves hundreds of lives a year are too ridiculous to even argue about

MetzgerMeister

Kenny Logins wrote: »

I'm not a scientician, but I find it hard to believe that the power to spin an electric fan can draw as much as 25hp from a diesel engine...

If you think about it, it takes around the same hp to run the air con in a car. It's easily doable in a truck that has a fairly big engine and big, heavy radiator fans to run.

goz83

I think the arguments being thrown around in here, both for and against the coolant are getting to be a bit silly now. The same points are being thrown back and forth.

Here's how I see it:

Normal coolant = much cheaper to buy, but must be changed at intervals to prevent corrosion. More likely to overheat, but that's not a major issue in Ireland at least. It's toxic and DOES cause deaths, but mainly due to poorly maintained cars leaking coolant and the family pet having a taste. No big deal. I'm sure more family pets have been left tied to a tree this year than in all the coolant related deaths in Irish history.

Evan Coolant = More expensive. No need to change at intervals, so once it's it, it doesn't need changing, saving those of us who are lazy, a good deal of nothing much. It can prevent over heating, or even a burst radiotor, which was suggested above It's non-toxic and much better for the environment, as it lasts the life of the engine. Regarding fuel saving. If it saved only €1 per €70 (typical tank full per week), then that's a saving of around €50 per year. In the long run, it pays for itself.

If more people want in, then PM me.

unkel

Nice summary, but don't kid yourself. It will save zero in fuel

Here's another summary: Evans coolant will probably be worthwhile in some circumstances. Heavy equipment, classic cars or other cars that are rarely driven and high performance / race cars and cars that are used in very harsh environments. For any normal car it is a nonsense

goz83

Maybe a link in the modified motors section would suit

How often does the average joe need to change his coolant? How much does it cost for a decent anti-corrosion coolant for lets say a car that needs up to 10 litres?

Kenny Logins

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

If you think about it, it takes around the same hp to run the air con in a car. It's easily doable in a truck that has a fairly big engine and big, heavy radiator fans to run.

Does it though? Air-con usually has belt driven compressor and electric fans and I though it was estimated around 5-10hp. Where does this 25hp figure come from?

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

Maybe a link in the modified motors section would suit

How often does the average joe need to change his coolant? How much does it cost for a decent anti-corrosion coolant for lets say a car that needs up to 10 litres?

Every 5 years generally, gallon of oat would be 30 to 40 euro.

bmstuff

unkel wrote: »

That's not how it works. During warm-up of the engine, the engine is not cooled at all! The thermostat is closed. Once the engine reaches normal operating temperature, the thermostat is opened to allow coolant flow and cool the engine.



There's nothing wrong with a little bit of pressure in the cooling system. There's very little point in trying to bring the pressure down for most cars in normal operating circumstances. 30 PSI seems to be very high though for a typical cooling system?



As others have stated, there will be no corrosion in the cooling system of a daily used car in normal circumstances filled with the correct mix of water and anti-corrosion that is changed every few years

And the benefits from the Evans coolant not being toxic and the claim it saves hundreds of lives a year are too ridiculous to even argue about

You are preaching to a preacher and a reseller, as I said before I have not seen a rotten cooling system by corosion, but who does not put pure water in its cooling system to do top ups? I have even seen garages twice doing that here, 2 well known BMW "specialists" for instance...

As for the pressure obviously highly pressurised systems will be prone to early failures.
Cracked rads and pipes and other similar symptoms are common issues, on BMW at least, I can only speak for BMW. Their engines run hot and with highly pressurised cooling systems. To me this is the main issue on BMW cooling systems. It has been for years.

goz83

1 gallon is around 4.5 lires right? if it was costing €40, thats not really cheap. I thought it would be half that. If someone wants 5 litres of the evan coolant, it will only be around €50 and it lasts the life of the car. Normal prices are much higher. Its €80 here in the republic. The bulk buy makes it much cheaper. I honestly didn't know regular coolant was that expensive.

I got mine done with lots of other work getting done last year, so I didn't look at the individual price.

goz83

bmstuff wrote: »

As for the pressure obviously highly pressurised systems will be prone to early failures.
Cracked rads and pipes and other similar symptoms are common issues, on BMW at least, I can only speak for BMW. Their engines run hot and with highly pressurised cooling systems. To me this is the main issue on BMW cooling systems. It has been for years.

+1 on this. My 01 318i blew its rad in 2008. It cost me a bloody fortune too. BMW are robbing besterds. I had to order from ebay and wait for a couple of weeks, with my motor off the road, because BM were asking for a crazy sum of money for a new rad.

But you need 1/3 to a half of the volume of oat compared to the Evans stuff.

goz83

RoverJames wrote: »

But you need 1/3 to a half of the volume of oat compared to the Evans stuff.

Ah thanks for that RJ. So it's mixed 50/50, or less, but presumably not with tap water? Although I have never seen anyone use anything other than tap water to top up their coolant. This is perhaps one other benefit of the evans stuff. You put it in, undiluted and human laziness and/or ignorance goes amiss.

Drummerboy08

A gallon of bardahl coolant is fifteen quid trade in most motor factors. Big difference.

I've considered this for the racecar too but I'm not gonna bother. For the amount of times the coolant system will be apart due to repair or damage, it would cost too much to use it.

Yes tour can say you can collect it, but you always ensure up looking some and eventually you'll be buying another gallon.

There's no real benefit to it either IMHO.

Mycroft H

It's never going the last the life of the engine. You're going to be draining it whenever you change a rad/water pump etc.

goz83

BX 19 wrote: »

It's never going the last the life of the engine. You're going to be draining it whenever you change a rad/water pump etc.

You're supposed to collect and reuse it if you have to do that. Plus, most people would have a couple of litres left over for any spillage.

renofan

RoverJames wrote: »

Every 5 years generally, gallon of oat would be 30 to 40 euro.

I change mine every two years. (welcome back btw!)

Interesting thread but I won't be buying.

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

Ah thanks for that RJ. So it's mixed 50/50, or less, but presumably not with tap water? Although I have never seen anyone use anything other than tap water to top up their coolant. This is perhaps one other benefit of the evans stuff. You put it in, undiluted and human laziness and/or ignorance goes amiss.

In a closed cooling or heating system most tap waters won't do any harm mixed with inhibitor equipped coolant, by most I mean the huge vast majority its in the likes of cooling towers and steam boilers that the total dissolved solids in tap water are problematic, they're not closed systems batteries are a different proposition in case some f yard wants to bring them into the chat.

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

In a closed cooling or heating system most tap waters won't do any harm mixed with inhibitor equipped coolant

And for people still worried after all that, you can use distilled water. Available for about €1 per gallon from a chemist or completely free if you run a condenser dryer to dry clothes (like myself)

My PC has been watercooled for numerous years with distilled water (I used no rust inhibitor at all) and there is no rust...

goz83

Might run better on evans coolant :pac: joke, joke. I plan to build my own pc next year and will be using liquid coolant. I for one hate the constant sound of fans running. This should really reduce that noise frequency.

2Shae

I would join in on this buy. 2001 316i (1.9L engine)

Pottler

Weird to see this thread as i only became aware of this Evans stuff last week. Apparently it's the dog's whatsits on highly stressed engines and in severe duty applications. I for one reckon that it should be every Rover owners best friend. ducks and runs to hide from RJ.:D

goz83

Decided to scrap the group buy. Was only 1 buyer short.

Wheelnut

goz83 wrote: »

Decided to scrap the group buy. Was only 1 buyer short.

I just read the first two pages of this thread and then skipped to the last. To be honest, this is the result I expected, I'm just surprised it took so long!

(@goz83: I don't doubt your sincerity)