People who claim to be 'spiritual'

Grayson

Nearly everyone in this country was brought up within an organised religion. The majority would be catholic, but there are others.

I can't get people who are "spiritual" or converts. They managed to look at their own original religion and think that something didn't add up, so they went and picked another load of bollocks to follow instead.

And if anyone them say that it just feels right, well a C cup feels right to me. Doesn't mean I'm going to make it a religion. (OK, I'm kinda lying there. I like pretty much all boobies).

flutterflye

lounakin wrote: »

Look it up?!

I have done - loads of times - I don't get it!

flutterflye

Sleepy wrote: »

It's called an exercise induced endorphin rush.

No, you get that feeling with no exercise too.
It goes beyond just thinking 'oh look, what a nice view' - it's like this almost overwhelming awe of everything - The earth and everything on it - the entire universe - how there is a flow and a rhythm to it all etc...
It's really peaceful knowing you are a part of it all - you belong.

Frederica Beauregard

Sleepy wrote: »

A belief in a deity is stupid.

Having the sense to reject organised religion yet still claim a belief in "spirituality" or some kind of deity is imo, knowingly being stupid: they've been able to make the mental leap that indicates their logical mind isn't incapable of independent thought but are emotionally unwilling to accept reality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble -- Einstein (The Man, not the Dog.

Spiritual

I am Spiritual.

lounakin

flutterflye wrote: »

I have done - loads of times - I don't get it!

It just means that you're opened to things that aren't necessarily apparent or in your face. We all have the faculty to imagine what we cannot see, and we even have concepts (eternity, perfectness etc...) in us that do not seem to exist. Everything that goes on around us in nature has an obvious and a not so obvious part. Science constantly shows us how amazing life is and how no matter how long we've been here there's always more to discover and amaze. I would say spirituality is all around us.

flutterflye

lounakin wrote: »

It just means that you're opened to things that aren't necessarily apparent or in your face. We all have the faculty to imagine what we cannot see, and we even have concepts (eternity, perfectness etc...) in us that do not seem to exist. Everything that goes on around us in nature has an obvious and a not so obvious part. Science constantly shows us how amazing life is and how no matter how long we've been here there's always more to discover and amaze. I would say spirituality is all around us.

Well I'm not spiritual then. I think.
I wouldn't be open to the idea of things that don't exist.

ScumLord

I want to believe that god cares about me so that I can feel special inside my own head, but I don't feel like following any of the rules of religions as it's time consuming and means I would have to sacrifice indulgences. The good thing about spirituality is I can make up rules and morals to suit my own life style or to suit the immediate social circle I'm in, having flexible morals means I can always feel good about myself. Self proclaimed/regimented belief systems don't make a mockery out of religion or morals it's a way of the future.

Maximus Alexander

flutterflye wrote: »

No, you get that feeling with no exercise too.
It goes beyond just thinking 'oh look, what a nice view' - it's like this almost overwhelming awe of everything - The earth and everything on it - the entire universe - how there is a flow and a rhythm to it all etc...
It's really peaceful knowing you are a part of it all - you belong.

I have had this feeling, but only a handful of times, and I wish I could call it up on demand.

smurgen

Sleepy wrote: »

It's called an exercise induced endorphin rush.

I wonder why i nere got one in my many hours in the gym so?

optimistic_

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'd say it's more to do with the fact you've had religion pounded into you since school, and a fear of the rejection of god.

It can be a hard thing to think of for some people, that possibly this is it, all there is. Spirituality is a nice comfort zone where detached old men don't get to tell you what to do while you you still get the benefits.

To be honest, virtually every person who is religious outside of the hard fundimentalists do this anyway- it's amazing how god doesn't REALLY mind the things you like to do, isn't it?

*Faints*

Furious_George

I cant understand why anyone has a problem with someone being spiritual and perhaps believing that there is something else out there which we cant understand.

I personally struggled with this for a while, I didnt believe the teachings of the catholic church and see them for what they are, rules made up by man. I don't really understand what I do believe in and I certainly cant explain it but I dont feel the need to anymore. I just know the feeling of awe I get when I sit on a rock and watch the sun go down over Galway bay. That is just one small example. There are many other reasons I feel spiritual but I am not going to go into them

Without generalising too much a lot of atheists (based on what I have read in the atheism thread, here on AH etc.) claim that many organised religions are counter-productive to the progress of human kind due to antiquated rules, practices and beliefs. Feeling spiritual doesn't come with all these rules and hangups and generally comes with a lack of judgement of others. I cant see how this would affect others negatively and why anyone would have a problem with it. Other than perhaps extremely religious people who want to "save" everyone and convert them to their religion perhaps.

It seems a little strange therefore for people to post criticising "spiritual people" unless the poster falls into the very religious category.

Scanlas The 2nd

I am an atheist who is spiritual. I don't believe in anything supernatural.

Spirituality to me is about the perspective of your focus. You observe your thoughts, emotions, feelings, sense perceptions wiylthout being them. You are aware of your awareness behind your thought and how it is the same awareness in everyone. You feel neither superior nor inferior to anyone or anything. You just accept yourself. It's deeply peaceful.

lounakin

flutterflye wrote: »

Well I'm not spiritual then. I think.
I wouldn't be open to the idea of things that don't exist.

I'm not talking about believing in things that don't exist! I'm beginning to think you are just trolling.
I'm sure you've used the word 'forever' in your life. Well that means you are trying to grasp a concept that you've never seen (no one has ever lived forever) and you will never see yet it is in you. And what I meant by things you don't see is all that goes on at the microscopic level, the atomic level and the fact that we are all connected (fact). Memories are also an example of spiritualism, keeping memories of people or things that do not exist, displaying incredibly similar personality traits as an ancestor... things like that are linked to the idea of a non-physical world, a more intellectual or spiritual one.

Spiritual

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I am an atheist who is spiritual. I don't believe in anything supernatural.

Spirituality to me is about the perspective of your focus. You observe your thoughts, emotions, feelings, sense perceptions wiylthout being them. You are aware of your awareness behind your thought and how it is the same awareness in everyone. You feel neither superior nor inferior to anyone or anything. You just accept yourself. It's deeply peaceful.

Claiming to be spiritual is not anything to do with religion or atheism. You describe it well, I would describe it as an empathy and familiarity with your fellow human beings. A sense of togetherness without necessarily caring that there may be a deity to attribute it all too.

kylith

seamus wrote: »

Not even that, I'd find it very stressful to think that there are ethereal forces which exist which intelligently guide our fate and decide on a whim whether we'll have a good day or bad day.

That's just going to make you stressed because when stuff goes to ****, you'll feel like you're being picked on.

If you accept that there are no intelligent forces messing with your fate, and that everything which happens is just a result of plain old chance, then it's much easier to roll with the punches.

Some people seem to need the idea that something is in control though, they need to believe that, for example, their child died 'because God wanted him back' because it's nicer to believe that than, say, some mindless virus just happened to infect him. They need someone to blame when things go wrong, and someone to thank when things go right, because they're not capable of taking responsibility for their own triumphs and failures.

flutterflye wrote: »

No, you get that feeling with no exercise too.
It goes beyond just thinking 'oh look, what a nice view' - it's like this almost overwhelming awe of everything - The earth and everything on it - the entire universe - how there is a flow and a rhythm to it all etc...
It's really peaceful knowing you are a part of it all - you belong.

I know that feeling. The knowledge that I am a tiny, insignificant speck on a small blue marble, orbiting a nothing sun, at the unfashionable end of the spiral arm of a very mundane galaxy, which is lost in the vastness of space, and yet I am here, and I witness such beauty around me every day, and, if I put my mind to it, I could understand what makes the stars dance, and why the sun is... It's nearly enough to make me weep.

Frederica Beauregard wrote: »

Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble -- Einstein (The Man, not the Dog.

Everyone? Really? Have you got a source for that other than Einstein's opinion? There's a whole rake of scientist who'd disagree with you, and Einstein, there.

Randy Anders

I was strictly an atheist until I started dabbling in psychedelic drugs

Now I just don't no what to think but they definitely changed my perspective

Would I now class myself as spiritual? No

I would however admit that we live a crazy existence and trying to understand it with an open mind is far better than closing yourself off to any other theory of life

9959

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I am an atheist who is spiritual. I don't believe in anything supernatural.

Spirituality to me is about the perspective of your focus. You observe your thoughts, emotions, feelings, sense perceptions wiylthout being them. You are aware of your awareness behind your thought and how it is the same awareness in everyone. You feel neither superior nor inferior to anyone or anything. You just accept yourself. It's deeply peaceful.

Ever thought of being a hypnotist, even though it's just a few lines, I almost fell asleep reading your post.
Deeply peaceful indeed.

Knasher

Furious_George wrote: »

I cant understand why anyone has a problem with someone being spiritual and perhaps believing that there is something else out there which we cant understand.

As an abstract I really don't care if someone is spiritual or not, I find it bizarre but that is just my perspective. My main problem with spirituality is the very large overlap that seems to exist between it and alternative medicine, which I consider a dangerous scam.

Madam_X

smurgen wrote: »

I wonder why i nere got one in my many hours in the gym so?

Yeh I've had that experience without exercise too - you conveyed it really nicely.
I'm seeing comments from some atheists on this thread as closed-minded and inflexible as any religious ones.

Ush1

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh I've had that experience without exercise too - you conveyed it really nicely.
I'm seeing comments from some atheists on this thread as closed-minded and inflexible as any religious ones.

Probably because spiritual is a very slippery term. It seems to mean completely different things to different people.

flutterflye

lounakin wrote: »

I'm not talking about believing in things that don't exist! I'm beginning to think you are just trolling.
I'm sure you've used the word 'forever' in your life. Well that means you are trying to grasp a concept that you've never seen (no one has ever lived forever) and you will never see yet it is in you. And what I meant by things you don't see is all that goes on at the microscopic level, the atomic level and the fact that we are all connected (fact). Memories are also an example of spiritualism, keeping memories of people or things that do not exist, displaying incredibly similar personality traits as an ancestor... things like that are linked to the idea of a non-physical world, a more intellectual or spiritual one.

Wtf do you think I'm 'trolling'?!
Just because I cannot grasp the concept.
Memories are not spiritualism, they are memories.
I'm trying really hard to understand your post, but I just don't

Madam_X

Ush1 wrote: »

Probably because spiritual is a very slippery term. It seems to mean completely different things to different people.

And that's what I'm saying - it does have a lot of meanings, yet still with the "It just means the person is being a la carte about religion."

smurgen

Madam_X wrote: »

Yeh I've had that experience without exercise too - you conveyed it really nicely.
I'm seeing comments from some atheists on this thread as closed-minded and inflexible as any religious ones.

well i can remember another time that is alot less romantic!I was out the country by Blarney in my friends back garden, locked drunk having a piss,and looked up and never seen the night sky so clear before. Again the reassuring,warm feeling of safefty wash over me. Well either that or the warm feeling was me pissing on myself!

Oranage2

Got to laugh at some of these 'non religious' spiritual hippies! Was in India and there's nothing as stupid looking as seeing one of these goons with a red dot on their head! Same goes for goons that become Buddhists in Thailand for a day or 2!

9959

If being 'spiritual' is such a nebulous concept beyond the grasp of language, and meaning so many different things to so many different people, then ultimately, being 'spiritual' is meaningless.

Ush1

Madam_X wrote: »

And that's what I'm saying - it does have a lot of meanings, yet still with the "It just means the person is being a la carte about religion."

Well in fairness to them, having a spirit is usually a central point to most religions.

Feeling elated about something and calling it spiritual, is in my opinion a bad description.

Madam_X

flutterflye wrote: »

Wtf do you think I'm 'trolling'?!
Just because I cannot grasp the concept.
Memories are not spiritualism, they are memories.
I'm trying really hard to understand your post, but I just don't

They mean spiritualism is considering there might be more going on than what is physically apparent. That has a different meaning to believing things that don't exist.

flutterflye

Madam_X wrote: »

They mean spiritualism is considering there might be more going on than what is physically apparent. That has a different meaning to believing things that don't exist.

But is that not agnosticism?

Madam_X

Well agnosticism only applies to god; spirituality is broader. Could mean ghosts, angels, etc. I'm not saying they definitely exist (before the sneers) just that spiritual people consider whether entities along these lines are possible.

Knasher

Madam_X wrote: »

They mean spiritualism is considering there might be more going on than what is physically apparent. That has a different meaning to believing things that don't exist.

If something isn't physically apparent then what basis do you have for proposing its existence?

flutterflye

Madam_X wrote: »

Well agnosticism only applies to god; spirituality is broader. Could mean ghosts, angels, etc. I'm not saying they definitely exist (before the sneers) just that spiritual people consider whether entities along these lines are possible.

I thought that being agnostic meant that you didn't believe in anything in particular, but didn't not believe either - that you are open to the possibility - whether it be a 'god' or something else.

Ush1

Madam_X wrote: »

Well agnosticism only applies to god; spirituality is broader. Could mean ghosts, angels, etc. I'm not saying they definitely exist (before the sneers) just that spiritual people consider whether entities along these lines are possible.

No, agnosticism can be applied to most areas of uncertainty.

Ghosts, angels, gods, etc.. I can't be 100% sure don't exist so I'm agnostic. But I firmly believe they don't exist.

lounakin

flutterflye wrote: »

But is that not agnosticism?

I think the problem here is you're throwing words like agnosticism and spirituality to define one small aspect. Those are broad terms and because they mean so many different things to different people, they do indeed become meaningless.
I'm sure some people claim to be spiritual when in fact they're just trying to detach themselves from religion, others are into ghosts, others believe in reincarnation or metempsychosis, others believe in the power of nature...
But religion isn't a factor in a lot of others. It's got to be hard to understand from an irish point of view since up until recently religion was everywhere and had crept into the very fabric of this country.

endacl

charlemont wrote: »

I completely believe that there is a God, But I'm not thick enough to take my teachings from another human, why should I ? God or our creator gave us the capacity to think, To think for yourself.

What's the difference between being thick enough to believe in holygod, and being thick enough to take your teachings from another human? The first is irrational. Abdication of the responsibility to rely on your own reason. The other is just thick.

Ignoring the wisdom of somebody who may have gained wisdom through experience, and justify their teachings in a rational fashion. I'm not in the least bit 'spiritual'. I don't accept anything even vaguely supernatural, from holygod to the tooth fairy. But I'll listen to what the dalai llama says on many topics. Smart dude the dalai llama. No such state as nirvana, all the same.

Spirituality is wishful thinking. And incredibly lazy thinking.

Madam_X

Knasher wrote: »

If something isn't physically apparent then what basis do you have for proposing its existence?

Anecdotes, not knowing for sure it *doesn't* exist.

Personally I'm open to the paranormal/supernatural.

flutterflye

lounakin wrote: »

I think the problem here is you're throwing words like agnosticism and spirituality to define one small aspect. Those are broad terms and because they mean so many different things to different people, they do indeed become meaningless.
I'm sure some people claim to be spiritual when in fact they're just trying to detach themselves from religion, others are into ghosts, others believe in reincarnation or metempsychosis, others believe in the power of nature...
But religion isn't a factor in a lot of others. It's got to be hard to understand from an irish point of view since up until recently religion was everywhere and had crept into the very fabric of this country.

I don't think it's necessarily from an Irish pov that it's hard to grasp - It is just so abstract and vague.
If it had a clear definition it would be easier, but as you say, it means many different things to different people.
It's probably more a feeling than something that can be explained in words - so yes, very hard to understand indeed!

Maximus Alexander

endacl wrote: »

What's the difference between being thick enough to believe in holygod, and being thick enough to take your teachings from another human? The first is irrational. Abdication of the responsibility to rely on your own reason. The other is just thick.

Ignoring the wisdom of somebody who may have gained wisdom through experience, and justify their teachings in a rational fashion. I'm not in the least bit 'spiritual'. I don't accept anything even vaguely supernatural, from holygod to the tooth fairy. But I'll listen to what the dalai llama says on many topics. Smart dude the dalai llama. No such state as nirvana, all the same.

Spirituality is wishful thinking. And incredibly lazy thinking.

It must be awesome to know things with certainty like you do.

Agricola

I think its meaningless its it most commonly used sense. If people say they are spiritual and actually sit in the mediation position, surrounded by candles for awhile everyday at home, humming / saying some prayer, then maybe they have some leg to stand on. But for most people it equates to taking a walk and thinking about your life, your family and friends etc and hoping for good things for them. Basically its someone with some semblance of self awareness and good nature. And that's spirituality!

poeticseraphim

lazygal wrote: »

Are they just kidding themselves? Anyone I know who says they aren't religious 'But I'm a very spiritual person' seems to think its a kind of a get out of jail free card for rejecting religion. Like, they don't want to be associated with an organised religion, but want to feel like there's something more to life. Is it not just wishy-washy and make-up? Seems like its covering your arse just in case.

Someone who nourishes their spirit and does not accept a solely shallow materialistic life they believe they are more than physical.

Anyway why judge them?

They are obviously trying to escape judgement from narrow minded people.

It could mean they like poetry or meditation, or they are satanists.

It is a buffer or nosey people.

Most likely they believe no religion has got it or will ever get it right...and they don't want to reject science and want to embrace open mindedness and just take a moment in the hustle and bustle without joining a mad self righteous cult.

It is not so much covering their ass as opening their mind and realizing spiritual is diverse.

If you look at the word spiritual in a non supernatural way ie. poetry is laughter or the soul atheists can be spiritual people too.

So can those who believe in something undefined.

Maybe for atheists it can mean contemplating on the charted aspects of the universe and what that means and think about your place in all of that and how you relate to others.

Einstein always struck me as very spiritual.

I hope I answered.

It means what it means to them...

Maybe it is secular spirituality.

Or the fact that when they look at nature or read poems or sit and think or someone smiles at them and gives them a hug or shows great kindness or inspires them through great acts big or small..it cures their woes heals them and any broken hearts and makes them feel like being a better person to others.

Spiritual is when you want to be more thoughtful

If we think of something like trait spirituality as ranging on a continuum from low to high, atheists can score at any point along the continuum just like anyone else. High scores would indicate someone who seeks spiritual experiences or who experiences the various components of spirituality, depending on how the measure functions.

Practically, we might see a spiritual person either theist or atheist as highly empathic, aware of his or her connection to others, concerned with equality and social justice, regularly awed by the beauty of nature, etc. Such descriptors apply in varying degrees to all persons, theist and atheist alike.

Take something simpler, such as the need for meaning, and think about some of your friends. Some are probably deeper than others in the sense that they enjoy thought-provoking questions even more than the answers. They are about the journey and find great pleasure in learning, debate, and self-exploration.

Others are more concrete, less concerned with inner exploration about more concerned with action. They have little interest in reflection and want answers on which they can rely. They may have little tolerance for ambiguity or uncertainty.

Spiritual people can have tolerance for mystery whilst still using reason to explore it...they know there are parts of the human soul reason cannot touch and hey use empathy and emotion and intuition to relate to nature others and the world.

Madam_X

endacl wrote: »

What's the difference between being thick enough to believe in holygod, and being thick enough to take your teachings from another human? The first is irrational. Abdication of the responsibility to rely on your own reason. The other is just thick.

Ignoring the wisdom of somebody who may have gained wisdom through experience, and justify their teachings in a rational fashion. I'm not in the least bit 'spiritual'. I don't accept anything even vaguely supernatural, from holygod to the tooth fairy. But I'll listen to what the dalai llama says on many topics. Smart dude the dalai llama. No such state as nirvana, all the same.

Spirituality is wishful thinking. And incredibly lazy thinking.

It's only wishful thinking if the person wholeheartedly believes (like the notion of kharma and people being so confident that what goes around comes around) but there's a big difference between believing without question or proof versus simply being openminded to the possibility, as well as bearing in mind it could all be hokum.

kylith

flutterflye wrote: »

But is that not agnosticism?

Agnosticism refers to the ability to know something. I'm an agnostic atheist: I don't believe in any gods, but I don't think it's possible to know for definite.

Madam_X wrote: »

Anecdotes, not knowing for sure it *doesn't* exist.

I'm sure you've heard that this kind of thing before but; I don't know for sure that there isn't an invisible goblin under my desk, looking up my skirt. But that doesn't mean it's rational to assume that that means that there is a goblin.

flutterflye

Agricola wrote: »

I think its meaningless its it most commonly used sense. If people say they are spiritual and actually sit in the mediation position, surrounded by candles for awhile everyday at home, humming / saying some prayer, then maybe they have some leg to stand on.

I did a meditation day there recently, and the way they make you sit causes your legs to go numb if you're not used to it - you most certainly do not have a leg to stand on for a good 5 mins afterwards.

Madam_X

kylith wrote: »

Agnosticism refers to the ability to know something. I'm an agnostic atheist: I don't believe in any gods, but I don't think it's possible to know for definite.


I'm sure you've heard that this kind of thing before but; I don't know for sure that there isn't an invisible goblin under my desk, looking up my skirt. But that doesn't mean it's rational to assume that that means that there is a goblin.

I didn't say anything about assuming. I'd share your overall take - don't believe in god but can't know for certain.
There are anecdotes about haunted buildings, I treat these with an open mind. Never read or heard any anecdotes about a goblin under the desk though.

flutterflye

kylith wrote: »

Agnosticism refers to the ability to know something. I'm an agnostic atheist: I don't believe in any gods, but I don't think it's possible to know for definite.

But we all have the ability to know something
It is possible to know for definite - all those makey uppy things were made up by the imaginations of different people throughout history - therefore they don't exist.
There is no proof of their existence, there is no possible way of getting proof because they don't exist - people just made them up.

Scanlas The 2nd

endacl wrote: »

What's the difference between being thick enough to believe in holygod, and being thick enough to take your teachings from another human? The first is irrational. Abdication of the responsibility to rely on your own reason. The other is just thick.

Ignoring the wisdom of somebody who may have gained wisdom through experience, and justify their teachings in a rational fashion. I'm not in the least bit 'spiritual'. I don't accept anything even vaguely supernatural, from holygod to the tooth fairy. But I'll listen to what the dalai llama says on many topics. Smart dude the dalai llama. No such state as nirvana, all the same.

Spirituality is wishful thinking. And incredibly lazy thinking.

I'd argue spiritualiy is about removing thinking. To me beliefs play no part in spirituality. It is all about being present in the stillness of the moment.

kylith

flutterflye wrote: »

But we all have the ability to know something
It is possible to know for definite - all those makey uppy things were made up by the imaginations of different people throughout history - therefore they don't exist.
There is no proof of their existence, there is no possible way of getting proof because they don't exist - people just made them up.

When dealing with something like a deity it is possible to not know if they exist. It is possible, for example, that a deity set the universe in motion then positioned themself outside of that universe so that they cannot be perceived by our best instrumentation. In this way it is possible for a deity to exist, and also to be undetectable, leading to the viewpoint that, when dealing with the supernatural at least, that it is possible that it is impossible to know.

Now my brain hurts.

9959

Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »

I'd argue spiritualiy is about removing thinking. To me beliefs play no part in spirituality. It is all about being present in the stillness of the moment.

You may have nailed 'spirituality' in your first sentence.
Well done you!

Agricola

flutterflye wrote: »

But we all have the ability to know something
It is possible to know for definite - all those makey uppy things were made up by the imaginations of different people throughout history - therefore they don't exist.
There is no proof of their existence, there is no possible way of getting proof because they don't exist - people just made them up.

Yes but are we at a stage now when a scientist can definitively say that there was / is no god. No.
Are human beings ever likely to be so advanced as to be able to say definitively that there was / is no god, its unlikely I'd say.

Lack of proof isnt the same as thing as saying something isnt there.

Oh and I'm not talking about the christian muslim gods / holy books which are obviously man made constructs. Just talking about "a god" in general.

flutterflye

kylith wrote: »

When dealing with something like a deity it is possible to not know if they exist. It is possible, for example, that a deity set the universe in motion then positioned themself outside of that universe so that they cannot be perceived by our best instrumentation. In this way it is possible for a deity to exist, and also to be undetectable, leading to the viewpoint that, when dealing with the supernatural at least, that it is possible that it is impossible to know.

Now my brain hurts.

No, no none of that is possible, not even slightly.