Buying a house 2013!

Shedite27

sportfanatic wrote: »

Thanks for all the feedback guys,

We've had an architect complete a survey on the property, he was very happy with the build quality but he did say that he had a query on whether the depth of the insulation in the roof was up to the building regulations for when the house was built (2007). We are waiting for him to confirm if it did or did not meet the regulations of the time.

Just looked at the BER Cert again, and it was issued at the start of this month, so maybe they assumed it was B2?

What pisses me off is that it's advertised in multiple places (daft, myhome, brochure) as having a BER of B2 and now this. EA also claimed it was b2 rating.

I suppose in theory it may have resulted in an increased price for you (assuming you were bidding against someone that might have otherwise not bid as high).

But if the house is as perfect as you like, it's not worth reopening bidding in my opinion.

roro2

sportfanatic wrote: »

Ok, we've had an offer accepted on a house we really love. That was a few weeks ago and since then we've been getting everything in place with banks, solicitors, insurance, valuation, etc.

We are due to move in at the end of May. Everything going smooth so far. But......

The house was advertised as having a B2 BER rating, but our solicitor received the actual BER Cert today and the rating is actually C2....

Does this change things significantly?
Should I have requested the cert before we got this far?
Should I be pis*ed off about this?

Of course you should be pissed off. You have been misled, you've agreed a price based on incorrect information. Yes, it changes things to the extent that a C2 house is worth less than a B2 house (notwithstanding that a house is only worth what someone will pay), and you now have every right to reduce your offer as it's not binding until contracts are signed (or even walk away). An estimate of the costs to improve the house to a B2 is a good place to start, but more negotiation will probably be required.

Dublin25

Yay offer accepted! All very excited but can't share with anyone (other than parents) till we have signed and have keys, himself doesn't wanna jinx it!

Today begins the hard work of getting solicitors, surveyors etc.
Anyone one any tips on what we should be wary of?

I've priced a few solicitors and they coming in roughly between 1800-2000. Is there any important things i should be considering when choosing one? I don't wanna go on just price alone obviously.

mel.b

Congrats Dublin25 fair play trying to keep the excting news to yourself...i know i wouldn't be able to! Hope it all goes smoothly for you.

Independance

Congrats Dublin25, May I aske you what was the asking price and what price did you sale agree at & how many bids did you have to put in to secure?

Dublin25

Independance, original asking price was 190k. I think we put in about 4 offers until it was accepted and gone for 170k. Himself did the bidding with starting bid of 165k then upwards.
I was delighted with the EA though as he was able to come straight back to us that day and confirm.

skyfall2012

When buying a house are they obliged to tell you if it is leasehold or freehold before you make a deal?

quad_red

skyfall2012 wrote: »

When buying a house are they obliged to tell you if it is leasehold or freehold before you make a deal?

Of course. If the vendor refuses to disclose any important details you should not close a deal.

And anyway, the bank won't give you mortgage approval on a property without knowing whether it's freehold or leasehold.

skyfall2012

quad_red wrote: »

Of course. If the vendor refuses to disclose any important details you should not close a deal.

And anyway, the bank won't give you mortgage approval on a property without knowing whether it's freehold or leasehold.

Thanks for replying. I rang the auctioneers just now and they told me it was freehold, I assume I can take their word for it. We are cash buyers so the mortgage thing dosen't count.

I read a thread on boards.ie where someone bought a house and only discovered afterwards that it was leasehold, when she received ground rent notification. So auctioneers, solicitors etc. nobody kicked in to tell her to find this out.

I am just wondering who is the best source for this information the auctioneers?

kennyb3

What's the normal procedure re bill switchover on completion. Will the EA come with us to the house and take readings then hand the keys over?

We've an overlap of about 5 weeks were we'll still be in rented accommodation while we get work done, so i'm guessing we'll probably have to open all new accounts on the new house.

quad_red

skyfall2012 wrote: »

Thanks for replying. I rang the auctioneers just now and they told me it was freehold, I assume I can take their word for it. We are cash buyers so the mortgage thing dosen't count.

I read a thread on boards.ie where someone bought a house and only discovered afterwards that it was leasehold, when she received ground rent notification. So auctioneers, solicitors etc. nobody kicked in to tell her to find this out.

I am just wondering who is the best source for this information the auctioneers?

Were they reticent in confirming it?

You need to check everything is in order with the land registry. Do you have professionals representing you? You can pay third party companies a pretty modest fee and they'll check with the land registry for you and get a full breakdown of the deeds, the boundaries, freehold/leasehold etc.

skyfall2012

Yes we have hired solicitors. So assume that is her job to ensure that we have this information. I guess I have to ensure that it is included in the information she passes on to us.

adam88

quad_red wrote: »

Of course. If the vendor refuses to disclose any important details you should not close a deal.

And anyway, the bank won't give you mortgage approval on a property without knowing whether it's freehold or leasehold.

Sorry for asking a possible obvious question but what is the difference

skyfall2012

adam88 wrote: »

Sorry for asking a possible obvious question but what is the difference

Leasehold - you don't own the ground your house is built on and you have to pay ground rent.

Freehold- you own the land your house is built on.

Dortilolma

Could use some advice - We've seen a house we adore that's pretty new to the market, it's the upper end of our budget and we're trying to work out what the initial offer should be. There are no offers yet.

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

We're both first time buyers so have very little knowledge as to the best approach.

Ritchi

Dortilolma wrote: »

Could use some advice - We've seen a house we adore that's pretty new to the market, it's the upper end of our budget and we're trying to work out what the initial offer should be. There are no offers yet.

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

We're both first time buyers so have very little knowledge as to the best approach.

It's impossible to give you a figure as to how much below the asking price to offer without knowing how much the house is worth. It may only be worth 50% of the asking price, or it may be worth more than the asking price, depending on how realistic the vendors are.

I would suggest erring on the low side, you can always go back and offer more later.

Dublin25

Dortilolma wrote: »

Could use some advice - We've seen a house we adore that's pretty new to the market, it's the upper end of our budget and we're trying to work out what the initial offer should be. There are no offers yet.

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

We're both first time buyers so have very little knowledge as to the best approach.

I would go lower again that 10%-12% as you would be in a better position should there be more offers. The last thing you want to do is go in at a high price and leave yourself with no room to go higher.

I like you am a first time buyer and have learnt the hard way that you need to leave any emtional connection to the house out of it. I fell in love 2 times with houses that we just didn't get for various reason, and not getting them after falling in love was a worse feeling. Its hard but as many on here will say, there will be another house that will come along.

Good luck with your bidding!

quad_red

Dortilolma wrote: »

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

In my opinion, that never works. People have a set amount they will/can pay. If you can outbid them, you can outbid.

Dortilolma wrote: »

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

Sounds sensible.

Woodville56

We're in the same boat as the poster above , have seen a new 'builders finish' property which we like and are thinking about goin in at 20% below asking price , particularly as development has been on the market for a few years now and is owned by the banks at this stage. By all means let the Agent know that you are definitely interested in the property but , as the other contributors suggest, hold back on too high an offer, save some firepower for the closing stage ! While the asking price may or may not be a fairly accurate representation of the true value of the property depending on the circumstances of the sale, our own approach is to enter at somewhere between 10 to 20% below asking price, having regard to the local market scene for the type of property you have in view. Good luck !!

by the seaside

Dortilolma wrote: »

Could use some advice - We've seen a house we adore that's pretty new to the market, it's the upper end of our budget and we're trying to work out what the initial offer should be. There are no offers yet.

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

We're both first time buyers so have very little knowledge as to the best approach.

We bought our first house in England three years ago. Not a great market but probably in a better shape than the current Irish market. Also there was very little supply of family homes. We were the first viewers on the day it came onto the market. OH wanted to offer 6% below. I insisted on offering 10% below, which was accepted straight off. Some things to think about:

Never fall in love with a house you haven't yet bought.
If you do fall in love with the house, NEVER let the agent guess. You need to make the offer and negotiate, not your OH.
If you really want to buy the house, think how much the vendor wants to sell it.
Don't be worried that you won't be taken seriously with a low offer.
If you are not embarrassed by your offer it is too high. This is important. If 12% below is not embarrassing, how about 15% below?
When you make your low offer and the agent asks if you're negotiable, don't say yes or you've just upped your offer.
If you're asked what your maximum budget is, don't say. Make it clear that you ate looking for the best value house that you can get.
Be prepared to modify any of the above if you're in a high demand top end location.

Best of luck.

Edit: and never get involved in a bidding war.

Dortilolma

Thanks for all the advice folks - OH seems to be coming round to my way of thinking. We're going to go in for a second viewing and possibly put in a bid after that.

by the seaside

Dortilolma wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice folks - OH seems to be coming round to my way of thinking. We're going to go in for a second viewing and possibly put in a bid after that.

I want to hear you say it:

If I'm not embarrassed by my offer, it is too high.

Boom__Boom

Dortilolma wrote: »

Could use some advice - We've seen a house we adore that's pretty new to the market, it's the upper end of our budget and we're trying to work out what the initial offer should be. There are no offers yet.

OH wants to offer no less than 8% below asking price - he's totally fallen in love with the house and is scared other people will too so wants to start off high enough to minimise competition. The logic is the higher we go the less likely a bidding war will ensue. He also wants the vendors to view us a serious buyers.

I would rather offer 10%-12% below asking price and give ourselves some wiggle room (In all large purchases I'm usually the one negotiating for a lower price point).

We're both first time buyers so have very little knowledge as to the best approach.

I'd recommend doing some further searching online in terms of guides to haggling/bargaining/making offers when buying. Some of the stuff that you find will probably be irrevelant but you are also likely to come across something useful. A hour or two investigating how to bargain effectively would probably be an extremely valuable way to spend some time.

1)starting off high enough to minimise competition - You have zero knowledge of the amount of serious interest in the property [Do not rely on what the Estate Agent says] You'd don't know if there are 0,10,or 50 people seriously interested in the property. You have no knowledge of the finances of these individuals. As such "starting off high to minimise competition" does not strike me as a very sensible tactic. What this will do is automatically set a minimum price the buyer will accept. Odds are that a seller will be reluctant enough to accept the first offer they receive especially when it is less than their stated valuation. All of this applies to the idea of starting off as high as possible to

2) Forgot the notion of establishing the notion of having the vendors of view you as "serious buyers". What exactly is a the advantage of the vendor viewing you as "serious buyers"? What does this achieve? How does it benefit you? Basically someone selling a house will view any offer as a serious offer. They might not like the amount bid and it might not meet the valuation they are looking for but the odds of them saying "Go away we won't listen to any bids you submit" are virtually close to nil. They might say "that's a joke of an offer" but this will more likely be a negotiation gambit.

Another thing to try and do before deciding on your strategy - put yourself in the position of the seller. Basically how would you react if you were selling the property? If you were selling a property how would you react to an offer 8% lower versus 12% lower than the price you have put on the property.

Best of luck.

Galego

For me before I even consider bidding in a house, which I am serious in buying, these are my personal tips:

Getting to know the market/house/street:

1- You need to know the local market inside outside - as well as the EA does! Research and check all houses sold in the same street, estate, town, etc in the last 2-3 years. So after this research you can get an idea of the true value of the house at the current time.
2- View the house at least 2 times, I'd recommend 3 or 4. Bring a camera and take photos or videos and then review them at home.
3- Go and walk around the house/street/estate different days and at different times. Try to observe as much as possible in regards to possible things which could annoy you in years to come, should you move in that area.
4- Go to the local Garda station and have a chat to them about the street/house/estate.
5- Talk to the next door neighbour. I always try to talk to two different neighbours in the same street and try to get a feeling of the community in that street.

Negotiation time:

1- Ask the EA for the seller's situation. Why are they selling? Is this an ex-rental? How quick could I move in? Etc.
2- Ask the EA if there has ever been any offer in the property. If not, then consider making an offer 20% - 10% of the asking and take it from there.
3- Never outbid yourself. If you are the highest bidder then that is what the house is worth in the market.
4- Avoid getting carried away in bidding wars. set a budget for the house and do NOT go higher than that, ever!
5- If out-bided, move on and start the process all over again.

Please remember that this is the biggest financial decision, and possibly life changing, which you are ever going to make. It is important to take the time and get it right, or at least not totally wrong. :-)

Good luck to all of you looking to buy in this 2013!!!

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Dublin25 wrote: »

Yay offer accepted! All very excited but can't share with anyone (other than parents) till we have signed and have keys, himself doesn't wanna jinx it!

Today begins the hard work of getting solicitors, surveyors etc.
Anyone one any tips on what we should be wary of?

I've priced a few solicitors and they coming in roughly between 1800-2000. Is there any important things i should be considering when choosing one? I don't wanna go on just price alone obviously.

Send killers1 a PM and he'll take all the stress out if this stage of things for you! He's currently doing exactly that for us.

Woodville56

Seems that managing the EA/negotiation process is a process undertaken with some trepidation by most prospective buyers !
Just realising this myself from our early forays into the property market. I have posted a few times recently on this subject and would be glad of any advice. Briefly , our position is as follows:
We have our eye on a new property in a small estate which is 60% of the houses are complete to "builders finish",. Of the remaining 40%, approx 30% is sold/occupied and the remaining 10% unoccupied and for sale, along with the unfinished units. Estate is about 5 years old. On enquiry with EA, was told that "the banks" own the unoccupied/unfinished houses and that the selling price as advertised on various property websites is "non negotiable". I have in mind making an initial offer (in writing) at 20% below advertised price, subject to structural review etc , with the offer for a limited period only.
In this instance my queries are
1. is the EA obliged to convey our offer to the vendor /the bank and can we request confirmation in writing of this and of the vendor's decision in due course as regards our offer ?
2. is it appropriate/ethical to contact the bank directly, as we appear to be getting mixed messages regarding the EA's interest in our enquiries so far?
3. some friends advise holding off on making a bid at all and that we should wait until the prices reduce further on this property/estate - they have already dropped by 40% from the price quoted on the launch brochure 4 years ago.
Any advice would be welcome, as we do like the area and all things being equal, having scrutinised other properties in the area, the one in question ticks most of the boxes for us !

Galego

Woodville56 wrote: »

1. is the EA obliged to convey our offer to the vendor /the bank and can we request confirmation in writing of this and of the vendor's decision in due course as regards our offer ?

Yes the EA is obliged to pass on your offer to the bank. If he does not do it then you could report him for unethical behaviour against his professional body. Not sure if the complain would go anywhere though.

Woodville56 wrote: »

2. is it appropriate/ethical to contact the bank directly, as we appear to be getting mixed messages regarding the EA's interest in our enquiries so far?

Personally, I do not think that the bank would deal with you directly. They usually appoint an independent EA to deal with the selling and they could be in no rush to sell those houses.

Woodville56 wrote: »

3. some friends advise holding off on making a bid at all and that we should wait until the prices reduce further on this property/estate - they have already dropped by 40% from the price quoted on the launch brochure 4 years ago.

If 40% of the estate is unfinished, never mind if the prices fall another 20%, do you really want to buy there at all? My advise would be to stay away from those gosh estates/celtic tiger estates. The quality of those building tend to be very poor. Is there nowhere else for you to look at?

This is just my opinion anyway.

Dublin25

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Send killers1 a PM and he'll take all the stress out if this stage of things for you! He's currently doing exactly that for us.

I actually just did that yesterday! Killers1 is spot on I have to say.
Solicitor in hand.

+1 for a recommendation for Killers1

jython98

Property price down again in March http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-prices-fall-again-but-pace-eases-29221812.html

khards

And mortgage interest rates are up, that alone should knock another 10% off by the end of the year.

So much for all the $h1t about prices rising! I wonder how many got suckered in by the end of mortgage interest relief stunt.

Still hundreds of vacant and empty properties over in Dublin, Cork and Galway.
The Troika are now pushing for the banks to clear their books of this mess to expect lots of these to start coming to market in the next few months.

Expect mortgage rates to go up further to cover the banks losses on their non-performing loans.