How Employable is an entrepreneur ?

BnB

How Employable is an entrepreneur ?

I have been involved in my own company for the last 6 or 7 years. For a variety of reasons, I am seriously considering pulling out of it and going back working for someone else.

The company works in a specialist Business to Business area and if I do pull out, my partner will probably keep it going. It turns over circa €700k pa and employs around 12 people. However, I have no qualification in the area of business we work in which means I probably won't be looking to continue working in that area. (It is also one of the main reasons I am considering leaving)

My Degree (12 years ago) is in IT. Before I started my own business I worked mainly as a Data Analyst (Writing Reports in Brio etc) and as a Lotus Notes Programmer.

For the last 6 or 7 years I have become a Jack of all trades and a master on none.

The main focus of my job has been in Sales & Marketing.
I have also done a lot of work in Managing Financial Accounts, managing sales, developing & monitoring budgets.

I would see my 2 main strengths as
- Numbers. I can churn them, twist them, do whatever you want with them
- People. I am good at building relationships with people. Whether that is within an organisation, or with clients.

My question is...
- How employable am I....?
- What kind of a job should I be looking for ?
- What kind of a salary should I expect/aim for ?

Peterdalkey

You have qualifications and experience, so the simple answer is yes you are employable. Salary will be dependent on the job, seniority and industry sector you land in.

The single most important questions are , what do you want to work at? what level of responsibility do you wish to take on? how much do you think that matrix is worth? and finally would you be happy and satisfied with what you can actually secure in the market?

You really do need to know what kind of job you want and then make that your goal. If that means some extra education/qualification, you should consider getting it. Being happy and fulfilled is the single most important career criteria and generally can only be achieved in an area that you like/love!!

Cheers

Peter

BnB

Peter

Thanks for the Advice.

What do I want to work at... I honestly don't have a clue.... I don't want to go back to complete scratch. i.e. Start a new degree course in something and in a few years start looking for graduate jobs

I am not really looking for something that I love. It's just not something I need. I have a lot of other good things in my life. Great family (my own + extended), Good friends, Sport etc. My Job won't define me. If I have a job where I am working with some people that I like it doesn't matter to me a huge ammount what I am doing.

I suppose, to be honest, what does matter to me is money. It's not everything, but it's a lot.

And I suppose, maybe to put my origional Q in a different way, how do I go about maximizing what I have learnt running my own company to give myself the best value in the Jobs Market.

HellFireClub

With 700K turnover a year and 12 folks in the business, I'd be seriously questioning why you would walk away from that. After years of self employment, you get very used to making decisions and being your own man so to speak. I found myself in your very situation a few years ago and tried a bit of PAYE work and the experience I had with it, made me determined to never go work for someone else again. It's a huge adjustment to make and it isn't made any easier with the absolutely pathetic standard of people management that we have in Ireland. Then there is the low possibility of you getting a job at the moment, even if you are ideally qualified and experienced, because of the lack of jobs and these days people are hiring or "looking after" people that they know, which feeds into the lack of availability of jobs again.

If I was in your position, I'd be doing some very aggressive fine tuning of the business you already have, maybe by letting some people go and implementing what ever other cost cutting operations you may need to implement for the purposes of keeping yourself in a job which a decent salary.

BnB

Thanks Hellfire - That is of course the other option. What do I have to change about the current busioness to continue working there ?

That is something I am also of course exploring

Eviledna

I have made that very transition myself recently, and my main piece of advice would be to think of your extra-IT/business management skills as very valuable, even in a non business role, and don't be daunted by the changing technologies that may have progressed in your time as self employed- you are most likely very used to changing quickly to suit the demands of your job, new technologies will not be a barrier to your success.

In my experience interviewers are impressed with those who have run their own business, as more than likely it will be something they haven't done themselves. Put a lot of work into your CV, tailor it to each job application you make, emphasising your varied and dynamic skills with respect to the desired qualities in the job spec. Do not undervalue yourself. You have done what many have not. Be prepared for the "why are you leaving self employment" questions, always gearing the answer in line with the goals of the company interviewing you. Also be prepared for the "having been your own boss, how would you handle a hierarchy" question, and queries in the areas of towing the line in larger companies.

Also, use recruitment agencies, they can be surprisingly good at matching your skillset to jobs on file, thinking outside the box you might put yourself in. I'd recommend CPL for an IT role.

Best of luck with your transition. For me it was the best choice I ever made.

drunkmonkey

BnB wrote: »

Thanks Hellfire - That is of course the other option. What do I have to change about the current busioness to continue working there

You need to tackle the wage bill in your favour, hate to say it but you may need to take over the responsibility of one of the 12 employees. At the end of the day you have to make money for yourself before the rest of the staff.
Seriously, think about it, your in a new job, some young fella barks at you for being 10 minutes late, what you gonna do?? Sit there and suck it up?:pac:
As HellFire said you may find it impossible to go work for anyone after being so long your own boss, I know I would.

HellFireClub

BnB wrote: »

Thanks Hellfire - That is of course the other option. What do I have to change about the current busioness to continue working there ?

That is something I am also of course exploring

I think what you should try to as an exercise, is find 10 people you know and trust, who are in PAYE jobs at the moment, and put a hypothetical question to them:

If they could swop roles with you, would they???

I can't think of a single person I know in PAYE work at the moment, who would not run out of it in the morning if they had a real alternative, if you still have a business turning over nearly 1 mil a year, 4 years into recession, then you are doing something right, notwithstanding the fact that you clearly believe there are difficulties there that you feel are maybe getting in the way of you staying on board into the future.

I can think of 3 friends right now who are probably suffering from serious stress in their PAYE jobs, as austerity means less people are being paid less, to do more, so if you think a PAYE role could be some kind of respite opportunity from where you are currently at, you could be very much mistaken there in that belief I think!

Eviledna

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Seriously, think about it, your in a new job, some young fella barks at you for being 10 minutes late, what you gonna do?? Sit there and suck it up?:pac:
As HellFire said you'll find it impossible to go work for anyone after being so long your own boss, I know I would.

Not all jobs are like that, most run on flexible time management at that level, and encountering some "young fella" shouting at you is something you know how to deal with already from dealing with clients no doubt! Age should not be a barrier/issue in the professional world, unreasonable people can be managed in any context, be they important client or boss.

I was my own boss for four years and I got over the hierarchy issue within a week. The benefits of my new job far outweigh any ego-related notions of being my own boss, which I'm sure you would overcome too!

However I reckon I'll be alone in my opinion on this forum (it's where entrepreneurs who are passionate about being just that come to chat!). I know that the rhetoric of being an entrepreneur is to constantly remind yourself that you are your own boss and constantly remind yourself it's a huge benefit. Sometimes that benefit doesn't outweigh the crap that can come with that too, it all depends on how the OP feels about self-employment at this stage. But self employment not a cult, you can leave whenever you want :P

HellFireClub

Eviledna wrote: »

Not all jobs are like that, most run on flexible time management at that level, and encountering some "young fella" shouting at you is something you know how to deal with already from dealing with clients no doubt! Age should not be a barrier/issue in the professional world, unreasonable people can be managed in any context, be they important client or boss.

I was my own boss for four years and I got over the hierarchy issue within a week. The benefits of my new job far outweigh any ego-related notions of being my own boss, which I'm sure you would overcome too!

However I reckon I'll be alone in my opinion on this forum (it's where entrepreneurs who are passionate about being just that come to chat!). I know that the rhetoric of being an entrepreneur is to constantly remind yourself that you are your own boss and constantly remind yourself it's a huge benefit. Sometimes that benefit doesn't outweigh the crap that can come with that too, it all depends on how the OP feels about self-employment at this stage. But self employment not a cult, you can leave whenever you want :P

Just being honest here, I think you actually got lucky in what you tried to do. I don't know any private sector small business workplace who is taking people in at the moment on a "Flexi-time" basis. I once tried to do what you did, and how I didn't end up in the fúcking river at the end of it I'll never know. OK, the workplace I went to work in was one that was known for being absolute bastárds to work for, but sadly that only became apparent after I started working there & sucked in to the business.

I have a very good friend who was recently in the same position as the OP, he wasn't making the kind of really difficult adjustments that needed to be made for the business to be viable for him, (I'm talking letting people go, some of whom were with him since start-up, selling some company assets to give the company a cushion and access to some working capital), but once he HAD to make these adjustments, then the business actually started righting itself and he is very much able to see light at the end of the tunnel now.

All I'll say OP is think very long and hard about walking away from a business operation that has established turnover and some kind of an industrial footprint. And also, at the end of the day, it is every man for himself now, so don't be a martyr and extract yourself from a business in the (mistaken) belief I think, that far away hills are greener in a PAYE job. They are very far from it from what I'm seeing at the moment...

Eviledna

HellFireClub wrote: »

Just being honest here, I think you actually got lucky in what you tried to do. I don't know any private sector small business workplace who is taking people in at the moment on a "Flexi-time" basis. I once tried to do what you did, and how I didn't end up in the fúcking river at the end of it I'll never know. OK, the workplace I went to work in was one that was known for being absolute bastárds to work for, but sadly that only became apparent after I started working there & sucked in to the business.

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, that must have been awful. By flexi-time I meant that no-one would yell over ten mins, you can work the allotted hours within the day, late in the morn, stay late in the evening, no crap given.

It's good advice you give and I would agree that its a very important decision to make to ensure you are not walking away when things could be fixed.
However I had many people telling me that also, but the grass was greener where I went. If I was lucky, so was my business partner, as they landed in a far better position also, with better terms. It depends on how you approach it, and what your expectations are. It depends how bad the op's situation is now, and how much they doubt leaving. If you are at the "anything is better than this stage", then go. If you have doubts and a feeling that it could be turned around, then by all means keep trying. Either road you take, get business advice, or get career advice from a professional. Myself and my partner did that, and it meant I could approach job selection, interview and career change with the same gusto I had approached setting up and running my business. It's a project onto itself, and worth investing in, as it is a big change that shouldn't be underestimated.

I guess it's a case of evaluating where you are now, and where you'd like to be in 6 months. Getting professional independent advice can be the eye opener you need, no matter which path you take.

drunkmonkey

Evil Did you get a job in the PS?

srsly78

Work as a contractor, best of both worlds. Many people running their own IT companies do consultancy to bring in some cashflow while working on their own products.

You will still be your own boss, then when you go out on site you deal with your customer.

There is lots of well paid work around for project managers and business analysts, which you seem qualified to do.

HellFireClub

Eviledna wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your bad experience, that must have been awful. By flexi-time I meant that no-one would yell over ten mins, you can work the allotted hours within the day, late in the morn, stay late in the evening, no crap given.

It's good advice you give and I would agree that its a very important decision to make to ensure you are not walking away when things could be fixed.
However I had many people telling me that also, but the grass was greener where I went. If I was lucky, so was my business partner, as they landed in a far better position also, with better terms. It depends on how you approach it, and what your expectations are. It depends how bad the op's situation is now, and how much they doubt leaving. If you are at the "anything is better than this stage", then go. If you have doubts and a feeling that it could be turned around, then by all means keep trying. Either road you take, get business advice, or get career advice from a professional. Myself and my partner did that, and it meant I could approach job selection, interview and career change with the same gusto I had approached setting up and running my business. It's a project onto itself, and worth investing in, as it is a big change that shouldn't be underestimated.

I guess it's a case of evaluating where you are now, and where you'd like to be in 6 months. Getting professional independent advice can be the eye opener you need, no matter which path you take.

I hear ya, but I don't know anywhere outside of the public sector or some of the semi-states (An Post for example), who have that kind of flexi-time arrangement in place.

The hypothetical example picked of someone barking at the OP over being ten minutes late is just one such possibility of where problems might start emerging from. People in PAYE jobs at the moment seem to be at the end the their tether, one thing that I notice is causing people huge frustration in the PAYE world at the moment is weekly changes to working practices, often the degree of consultation here is non-existent or extremely one way, as "business needs" get cited to merge job functions and introduce efficiencies and if people won't run with whatever change is being sought, the threat of dismissal or redundancy is often not far from the surface. A lot of the time, it is business survival that is driving this, as the race to the bottom continues by way of government policy.

I know which side of the table I'd rather be on at the moment, maybe in SME's in the MNC sector or export led, there is a bit of peace to be had, but as for small business operating in the indigenous economy, forget it is my advice looking for a job there at the moment.

Peterdalkey

BnB wrote: »

Peter

Thanks for the Advice.

What do I want to work at... I honestly don't have a clue.... I don't want to go back to complete scratch. i.e. Start a new degree course in something and in a few years start looking for graduate jobs

I am not really looking for something that I love. It's just not something I need. I have a lot of other good things in my life. Great family (my own + extended), Good friends, Sport etc. My Job won't define me. If I have a job where I am working with some people that I like it doesn't matter to me a huge ammount what I am doing.

I suppose, to be honest, what does matter to me is money. It's not everything, but it's a lot.

And I suppose, maybe to put my origional Q in a different way, how do I go about maximizing what I have learnt running my own company to give myself the best value in the Jobs Market.

OK, you are in it for the money, that is your stated motivation. Most people are highly unlikely to earn more money in a PAYE job than working for themselves, unless of course they are crap at what they do. Soooo quickly established! I suspect this is not the case here, so it is likely that it is one of two alternative scenarios.
1. The current company is borrowed up to it's tits/ losing money and/or has significant promoter personal guarantees.
2. The "S" word, OP feels insecure or craves security, or even fears responsibility.

We are all different, and none of the two scenarios are bad, they just tell you that such a life is not for you. Being an entrepreneur is a state that is with you 24/7/365 interspersed with out-time, drink, sex, sport, reading whatever. When you are alone in your head, it is right up there at the top of the list.

OP you need to be honest with yourself as to what you really really want and then go for that. Asking here is a bit of a cop out on one hand, but I hope you are smart enough to take from the opinions and advice proffered here. At the end of the day you have sole responsibility for your own final decision. Use all this feedback to make a quality informed and honest to yourself decision.

I have read through the last few posts since your response to me and only you can decide which one is nearest you. Evilenda does make some great points if that is where you want to be and it is good that he has put that side out there against the rest of us who seem to think you should fix what you have.

But hey, it is your life and you are a youngish guy, so you can afford to experiment. I would caution only one thing, you may never again get an opportunity to have ownership of what you have now. Not knowing the detail, it may have no value at all or could have the potential to be very valuable, your call!


Cheers

Peter

HellFireClub

Peterdalkey wrote: »

OK, you are in it for the money, that is your stated motivation. Most people are highly unlikely to earn more money in a PAYE job than working for themselves, unless of course they are crap at what they do. Soooo quickly established! I suspect this is not the case here, so it is likely that it is one of two alternative scenarios.
1. The current company is borrowed up to it's tits/ losing money and/or has significant promoter personal guarantees.
2. The "S" word, OP feels insecure or craves security, or even fears responsibility.

We are all different, and none of the two scenarios are bad, they just tell you that such a life is not for you. Being an entrepreneur is a state that is with you 24/7/365 interspersed with out-time, drink, sex, sport, reading whatever. When you are alone in your head, it is right up there at the top of the list.

OP you need to be honest with yourself as to what you really really want and then go for that. Asking here is a bit of a cop out on one hand, but I hope you are smart enough to take from the opinions and advice proffered here. At the end of the day you have sole responsibility for your own final decision. Use all this feedback to make a quality informed and honest to yourself decision.

I have read through the last few posts since your response to me and only you can decide which one is nearest you. Evilenda does make some great points if that is where you want to be and it is good that he has put that side out there against the rest of us who seem to think you should fix what you have.

But hey, it is your life and you are a youngish guy, so you can afford to experiment. I would caution only one thing, you may never again get an opportunity to have ownership of what you have now. Not knowing the detail, it may have no value at all or could have the potential to be very valuable, your call!


Cheers

Peter

I'm seeing people lately who are trying to deal with (1) above, and the way they are dealing with it is starting up a brand new company, carrying over the clients & some of the core assets, getting rid of the debt which is attached to the old company (by getting rid of the company!), and giving themselves a new start.

Eviledna

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Evil Did you get a job in the PS?

LOL, no I must really like my job if it sounds as sweet as the ps!

I'm a developer in the IT industry, which admittedly has more positive job prospects at the moment than any other sector IMO. This is the reason why I wanted to weigh in on this subject because the OP said they were previously in IT. I want to let them know that there are positive options available if they seek it. I feel that my self employed experience benefits me in industry, I can see it from two perspectives in a sense, understanding the business goals and also as an employee. "Working for the man" isn't always the drudgery it's is portrayed to be, and the "big s" Peter mentioned above is indeed worth a lot, stability was my key decision factor. I don't see that as a failure, to analyse what's between you and happiness and to strive towards it is an honourable effort.

I hope the OP will find some positivity here in this discussion, as it is a hard decision to make.

Peterdalkey

Eviledna wrote: »

LOL, no I must really like my job if it sounds as sweet as the ps!

I'm a developer in the IT industry, which admittedly has more positive job prospects at the moment than any other sector IMO. This is the reason why I wanted to weigh in on this subject because the OP said they were previously in IT. I want to let them know that there are positive options available if they seek it. I feel that my self employed experience benefits me in industry, I can see it from two perspectives in a sense, understanding the business goals and also as an employee. "Working for the man" isn't always the drudgery it's is portrayed to be, and the "big s" Peter mentioned above is indeed worth a lot, stability was my key decision factor. I don't see that as a failure, to analyse what's between you and happiness and to strive towards it is an honourable effort.

I hope the OP will find some positivity here in this discussion, as it is a hard decision to make.

Great honest response. This is turning into a much more interesting thread than it threatened to be. Thanks OP,


cheers

Peter

HellFireClub

Eviledna wrote: »

LOL, no I must really like my job if it sounds as sweet as the ps!

I'm a developer in the IT industry, which admittedly has more positive job prospects at the moment than any other sector IMO. This is the reason why I wanted to weigh in on this subject because the OP said they were previously in IT. I want to let them know that there are positive options available if they seek it. I feel that my self employed experience benefits me in industry, I can see it from two perspectives in a sense, understanding the business goals and also as an employee. "Working for the man" isn't always the drudgery it's is portrayed to be, and the "big s" Peter mentioned above is indeed worth a lot, stability was my key decision factor. I don't see that as a failure, to analyse what's between you and happiness and to strive towards it is an honourable effort.

I hope the OP will find some positivity here in this discussion, as it is a hard decision to make.

Speaking of the IT industry, I am a web developer, but I never completed my degree in the field, (I have a degree from previous study after I left school), but when I went to get a job in the all singing all dancing IT industry in Ireland, I couldn't even get an interview, notwithstanding the fact that I have fully developed not just my own, but also several other ecommerce bespoke website solutions that trade in Ireland now, and manage these on a daily operational basis in terms of managing the product life cycle, taking payments, etc. This involved front end and also back end development and management.

But this being Ireland, even though I completely immersed myself in web technologies and development in terms of taking on a learning curve over the last few years, because I didn't have the little bit of paper for the file that said I had a degree, I wasn't at the races for an interview, even though I won projects from so called "professional" web development firms!

Go figure!

Shoe in

Hellfire-Why didn't you just put down on your CV that you had a degree?

BnB

Thanks for all the replies. The thread didn't really go down the track I was looking for, but it's still a very interesting track.

Just some further information as in all fairness to people they have been very good to reply.

The company is turning over €700k, but is making sod-all profit. (But not losing money either)

We don't have any massive debts. We have a loan and OD but nothing crippling.

I have had my doubts about my involvement in the company for a few years. Mainly because the business sector we are involved in is not relevant to me. In order to turn the company around to start making money we are seriously considering dropping one line of products. That is the line that would have most relevance to me. Without it, I would struggle to justify a role in the company for myself.

RE: Money....I wouldn't say money is my motivating factor for leaving. What I meant was, if I do decide to go, money would be a deciding factor about what sector/area I looked to go in to.

RE: Working for someone else.... I worked in the private sector for 6 or 7 years previously and liked it. I probably would even have stayed with that company except for location. (i.e. They weren't willing to move all their manufacturing and all their employees to where I wanted to live... The unco-operative backstards!!!!). Also, RE having a boss..... NO ONE has more bosses that someone working for themselves. Your customers, your bank manager, your staff.. you have to try and keep them all happy.

Right now I am crunching some numbers and working on a plan to make the company profitable while staying involved. I will see what this yields before I make any decision

One thing that is becoming more apparent in my head though is.... Even when I think about getting a PAYE job, I am always thinking about what I will start off myself at the same time. What can I be working away on at night.... So maybe the desire to have my own business won't just go away.

Peterdalkey

Not losing money is the new winning! Having a business that is breaking even, covering wages and overheads is a wonderful place to move on from and it appears that while the business needs to perhaps change tack and add new markets/products, it is so much easier to do this when not burning precious cash.

Perhaps as you are the one with itchy feet who should offer to do the research/ legwork for new areas to exploit, but only with the full support of your partner(s) It will require you to step out of most of the day today operation and focus on this task. You will need to keep your colleagues appraised of what you are at and not just sitting back and shooting the breeze. Human nature is just that!

It is always easier to sell something to your existing customer base, so a focus on what needs of theirs you can satisfy it is nearly always the easiest, most cost effective route.

Cheers

Peter

HellFireClub

A (self employed) close friend of mine recently said to me, "I used to have a business that worked and I knew once I worked hard at it, that the business model would see me through the next 5-10 years, but now I can't see beyond next month"...

This is a view that is cropping up a lot I'm finding, in conversations with people I know who are self employed small business owners. There has never been less certainty out there OP, another big aspect of all of this is the internet. Change now happens in real time, it's not something that happens over long periods of time as used to be the case.

Just an example for you, in my own industry (motor/garage equipment), we found that we identified a new revenue stream on the internet, then one day we found the thing had basically stopped selling overnight. We did the research and discovered that a black market operator on the DoneDeal website had been illegally outpricing us. All this guy had to do to make our new revenue stream nonviable, was to put a mobile number up on a webpage on DoneDeal, all done within 1 minute at a cost of 2 Euro I think. Within 1 minute on the internet, our business model had been undermined!

We obviously didn't leave it at that, we maneuvered ourselves into other areas, & got a bit cuter about what we were at, which is what you need to do I think.

Peterdalkey

BnB, in your original post you state that you employ 12 people and have a turnover of E700k per annum. You say you have product lines but are these actually services? It struck me that if you are selling actual traded products even at a decent 40% gross margin, this would only equate to E23,333 gross contribution per employee per annum before the other overheads. Some trick to break even on these kinda numbers! A more normal kind of number for trading would be about E60,000 gross margin per employee @ 40% GP.
If these numbers are anywhere near the truth, then no wonder you want to get a job!!

Cheers

Peter

TerryGorry

BnB wrote: »

How Employable is an entrepreneur ?

I have been involved in my own company for the last 6 or 7 years. For a variety of reasons, I am seriously considering pulling out of it and going back working for someone else.

The company works in a specialist Business to Business area and if I do pull out, my partner will probably keep it going. It turns over circa €700k pa and employs around 12 people. However, I have no qualification in the area of business we work in which means I probably won't be looking to continue working in that area. (It is also one of the main reasons I am considering leaving)

My Degree (12 years ago) is in IT. Before I started my own business I worked mainly as a Data Analyst (Writing Reports in Brio etc) and as a Lotus Notes Programmer.

For the last 6 or 7 years I have become a Jack of all trades and a master on none.

The main focus of my job has been in Sales & Marketing.
I have also done a lot of work in Managing Financial Accounts, managing sales, developing & monitoring budgets.

I would see my 2 main strengths as
- Numbers. I can churn them, twist them, do whatever you want with them
- People. I am good at building relationships with people. Whether that is within an organisation, or with clients.

My question is...
- How employable am I....?
- What kind of a job should I be looking for ?
- What kind of a salary should I expect/aim for ?

I have been self employed since 1986 and never worked for someone else..until recently.

The skills of an entrepreneur, the initiative shown, the self sufficient nature of a lot of what you do makes you eminently employable.

That is from the employer's perspective I have just found recently.

However the transition for the entrepreneur from self employment to employment is not to be underestimated;)

HellFireClub

Peterdalkey wrote: »

BnB, in your original post you state that you employ 12 people and have a turnover of E700k per annum. You say you have product lines but are these actually services? It struck me that if you are selling actual traded products even at a decent 40% gross margin, this would only equate to E23,333 gross contribution per employee per annum before the other overheads. Some trick to break even on these kinda numbers! A more normal kind of number for trading would be about E60,000 gross margin per employee @ 40% GP.
If these numbers are anywhere near the truth, then no wonder you want to get a job!!

Cheers

Peter

40% gross margin, you'd struggle to get half that in the industry I work in.

HellFireClub

I personally had one too many bad experiences in PAYE employment to ever consider it again. I'd consider PAYE work again if I had to but not a hope would I try it again in this country, even if the alternative was homelessness and I don't make that statement lightly. Too much nepotism, too much politics in the workplace, too much promotion on the basis of ball licking, too much promotion for all the wrong reasons and none of the right reasons, too many people in people management positions for all the wrong reasons with no relevant qualification in the field, too much incompetence when it comes to management, I think any person who is being honest, would have run into this in Ireland, I don't know one person in PAYE work who wouldn't have the same kind of story to tell when it comes to this subject, those who find themselves in a workplace with a genuinely healthy morale, (as distinct from a company that shítes on a lot about being a great place to work while actually being a depressing shíthole to work in), and those who feel that they do not have a dysfunctional business relationship with their manager, I think are very much in the small minority.

BnB

The vast majority of our "products" are services. But still, we are over staffed and this will have to be sorted out.

Peterdalkey

BnB wrote: »

The vast majority of our "products" are services. But still, we are over staffed and this will have to be sorted out.

The classic conundrum when sales start to stagnate, particularly in a recession. In the sales growth phase, you need to be ahead of the demand curve in terms of hiring, especially in traded services. You simply cant take on new business if you don’t have the bodies to do the work.

Management of lesser demand and lack of growth is a much tougher task than managing growth. It requires a clinical evaluation of all activities, including special "pet" areas and the resources required to sustain them. In most businesses, 70-80% of the revenues are generated by at little as 30% of the offering. This is the core business.

A simple financial analysis of the revenue streams and the resources/overhead required for each should be able to yield a business model capable of being profitable after "resizing. This may mean losing 30% of the staff cost but only reducing sales by 15-20%, or whatever. If none of these models can be made work, then the business is probably terminally doomed.

The actual execution is much harder than finding out what needs to de done, many good managers of growth are very poor at managing downsizing/cost cutting. It is something that needs to be done because it is the right thing to do not because the actions are imposed by outside forces such as creditors or banks. Many business failures could be avoided if the process were commenced earlier, it is easier to do nothing and hold on to the view that it can be traded through. This has been typically justified by, " sure we had tough times before and we got through those" but in my opinion we are still 4 to 5 years away from any meaningful recovery in our economy.

Fortunately you are the numbers analyst, such a project should be meat and two veg to you!!

Good luck

Peter

BnB

Peterdalkey wrote: »

The classic conundrum when sales start to stagnate, particularly in a recession. In the sales growth phase, you need to be ahead of the demand curve in terms of hiring, especially in traded services. You simply cant take on new business if you don’t have the bodies to do the work.

Management of lesser demand and lack of growth is a much tougher task than managing growth. It requires a clinical evaluation of all activities, including special "pet" areas and the resources required to sustain them. In most businesses, 70-80% of the revenues are generated by at little as 30% of the offering. This is the core business.

A simple financial analysis of the revenue streams and the resources/overhead required for each should be able to yield a business model capable of being profitable after "resizing. This may mean losing 30% of the staff cost but only reducing sales by 15-20%, or whatever. If none of these models can be made work, then the business is probably terminally doomed.

The actual execution is much harder than finding out what needs to de done, many good managers of growth are very poor at managing downsizing/cost cutting. It is something that needs to be done because it is the right thing to do not because the actions are imposed by outside forces such as creditors or banks. Many business failures could be avoided if the process were commenced earlier, it is easier to do nothing and hold on to the view that it can be traded through. This has been typically justified by, " sure we had tough times before and we got through those" but in my opinion we are still 4 to 5 years away from any meaningful recovery in our economy.

Fortunately you are the numbers analyst, such a project should be meat and two veg to you!!

Good luck

Peter

That's exactly what I have done - And it's exactly why we have decided to drop one particular service.

We have known that it was making a loss but it was a new product we were developing, but we are now thinking that maybe the time has come to give up on it, and allow the company to make some money.

Peterdalkey

I take it that your position needs to be eliminated to implement the new plan? If so you would be wise, and opbviously need to earn, to take a job, at least while you regroup. You have education, talents and much experience which will all be very valuable to some employer, what you do need to do is market yourself to companies in the sectors that require and value your skillset.
Back to analysis, make a prioritised list of your skills and talents and then research the job markets that seek them. Do a Rolls Royce CV and be prepared to tailor it to each application focussing on the specific requirements of each position applied for. Do go and meet the better recruitmnent agencies specialising in higher end positions. Make sure that you see the job spec before they circulate your CV, so that you have a chance to highlight your proposition for each application. It is a competitive market out there, so you must make sure that you do yourself justice to shine brighter than your opposition.

I wish you every success whatever you decide to do.

Cheers

Peter