Music you just don't get

Da Shins Kelly

joydivision wrote: »

So we are agreed its a basic use of the english language . Usually two notes (the rap) going back and forth over a sample .
If I needed to bluff my way into the music biz I think thisd be the easiest skill to master .
Now Im not saying its all bad or offensive to my ears . Im just saying I dont get it . I would feel silly putting a rap cd on .
Each to their own and stuff .
I have to go now . Ive been invited to a candy shop . Some big black guy wants to lick me lick a lollypop . Its cool though he was shot loads of times so Im sure hes cool .

Not basic use of the English language at all. Coming from a background lacking in education doesn't mean that someone is going to have a limited vocabulary or not be well-read, and there are many rappers who certainly have a way with language that is shown off through word-play and rhyming schemes, and a lot of them write in actually a very traditional manner that is in keeping with the 'rules' of old-fashioned poetry. Not that this stuff is written to be read, but rather performed. Reading it is not doing it justice or really giving it a chance at all, since much of the impact comes through the delivery.

And anyway, English is probably the richest language in the world with the vast variety of dialects and expressions and words that we use. There are so many different ways to express yourself and no one "right" way to speak English. That's the beauty of the language. The majority of rappers are African-American and so obviously use African-American vernacular when speaking and in their music. It's not "basic" English or "bad" English, it's just a different way of speaking, and you'll find it in any African-American literature from Sonia Sanchez to Maya Angelou, Jean Toomer to Alice Walker. It's an expression of one's background. To be honest, I think there's an inherent racism and classism in the way some people talk about the language used in hip hop, like it's not "white" or "proper" enough for them.

As for the sampling, that has always been a part of hip hop since it was on the streets, providing a backing track to the lyrics. In most cases, samples are not just plucked out of nowhere. Since the emphasis in any conscious hip hop is on the lyrics, the sample provides a platform and the choice of music is often somehow related to the lyrics.

I've also discovered so many old soul tunes and such that I would never have heard only they were sampled in hip hop songs. So many hip hop producers must have huge record collections in order to find some of this stuff.

My favourite sample from Wu-Tang:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp9uZjPaB4w

joydivision

Is you sayin im a racist cause I dont get rap brother ?
I like other black music . James brown is great . Alot of his stuff is sampled and then two tone rapped over . For me this ruins a james brown song . Its doesnt add to it.

RADIUS

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

And aTo be honest, I think there's an inherent racism and classism in the way some people talk about the language used in hip hop, like it's not "white" or "proper" enough for them.

Pure nonsense. Playing the race card still doesn't make these guys any smarter. They are still glorifying criminality and violent behavior in the most horrendous English.

Da Shins Kelly

joydivision wrote: »

Is you sayin im a racist cause I dont get rap brother ?
I like other black music . James brown is great . Alot of his stuff is sampled and then two tone rapped over . For me this ruins a james brown song . Its doesnt add to it.

I'm talking about language and the way people speak.

RADIUS wrote: »

Pure nonsense. Playing the race card still doesn't make these guys any smarter. They are still glorifying criminality and violent behavior in the most horrendous English.

You don't even know what you're talking about.

joydivision

And even the intelligence of it a quater of it is about police harrassing them when they done nothing . A good half of it is about being a killer hustler drug dealer .
They arnt doing themselves any favours .
The rest is pretty much about slappin bitches and slagging homosexuals .

RADIUS

@Da Shins Kelly

So If I don't like gangster rap I am racist and if I disagree with you on this then I don't know what I am talking about.

Look man I understand you like it, all I said was I don't get it and that I don't understand the whole gangsta thing.

That doesn't mean I am racist or class-ist. Hell I grew up in an area of Dublin comparable to the hood.

I spent my youth avoiding violent scumbag gangster's the last thing I want to listen to is music glorifying them.

Hence why I am saying on this thread; I don't get gangsta rap.

Da Shins Kelly

joydivision wrote: »

And even the intelligence of it a quater of it is about police harrassing them when they done nothing . A good half of it is about being a killer hustler drug dealer .
They arnt doing themselves any favours .
The rest is pretty much about slappin bitches and slagging homosexuals .

Such generalising. Spoken exactly like someone who has barely listened to hip hop.

And also, you're hardly one to be talking about good English.

Da Shins Kelly

RADIUS wrote: »

@Da Shins Kelly

So If I don't like gangster rap I am racist and if I disagree with you on this then I don't know what I am talking about.

If you read what I wrote, I said that I think there is an inherent racism and classism in the way people criticise the way a community of people uses the English language. There is no right or wrong way to express yourself through language, and just because someone uses language in a way that's maybe a little bit harsher than you like, doesn't mean it's wrong or "horrendous". There is a subtle snobbery and condescension about it, and it's something that a lot of people do, whether they realise it or not.

And secondly, yes, if you think that hip hop is all about glorifying violence and criminality, then you don't know what you're talking about.

RADIUS

I am not talking about all hip-hop I am talking about gangster rap.

joydivision

Why do rap fans get so offended . If you said joy division were crap . Id read it and think ah he just doesnt get it .
But say rap is crap and im a racist idiot . I havnt even heard every hip hop song so what would I know. How dare I ? Sure Im typing on me phone and me spelling is bad what would I know about taking a perfectly good song and using a basic rythme about how mad I am in a two tone scat to enhance the song .
Im triple 8
I make the song great
Been slappin bitches since I was 8
Drink 40s at my gate
Pump a bit of weight .
When I do this over the cave by that mumford and sons band its gonna rock.
Ill call it mumford and sins because Im deep .

Da Shins Kelly

RADIUS wrote: »

I am not talking about all hip-hop I am talking about gangster rap.

Gangster rap wouldn't be my favourite branch of hip hop, but it has its place. NWA, for example, were a hugely important group. The whole sub-genre evolved from hardcore hip hop like Wu-Tang and Mobb Deep, who are great groups.

The likes of Tupac and the Notorious BIG wouldn't be my first port of call.

RADIUS

joydivision wrote: »

Why do rap fans get so offended . If you said joy division were crap . Id read it and think ah he just doesnt get it .
But say rap is crap and im a racist idiot . I havnt even heard every hip hop song so what would I know. How dare I ? Sure Im typing on me phone and me spelling is bad what would I know about taking a perfectly good song and using a basic rythme about how mad I am in a two tone scat to enhance the song .
Im triple 8
I make the song great
Been slappin bitches since I was 8
Drink 40s at my gate
Pump a bit of weight .
When I do this over the cave by that mumford and sons band its gonna rock.
Ill call it mumford and sins because Im deep .

Damn best rap lyrics I've ever heard anyway.:pac:

JJJJNR

Rodrigo Y Gabriella - listened to their first album and im sure some of the guitars were out of tune on some songs, after that I suppose its interesting but there was such hype over that first album I thought they were going to be amazing.

joydivision

I acually have a song partially recorded and I ad a gap there for a guitar solo . Do any of the rap fans have the capabilities to receive an mp3 file and record a rap on it for me . Just for exploring what itd sound like .

Da Shins Kelly

JJJJNR wrote: »

Rodrigo Y Gabriella - listened to their first album and im sure some of the guitars were out of tune on some songs, after that I suppose its interesting but there was such hype over that first album I thought they were going to be amazing.

I actually know a Mexican girl and was talking to her about them and she said musicians like them are a dime a dozen in Mexico and reckons that their popularity overseas has more to do with the fact that people in these parts just aren't that familiar with it and so it has a novelty appeal.

joydivision

Yo shins dog you wanna lay down a rap for my album . Its about to drop like a bitchs weight after I lock her in my basement .
You will hear the empty part this is where the rap goes. Itll be like the gorrillaz I reckon .
http://m.soundcloud.com/qwerty-irl
edit .
wrong link there pick the song called whiskey that needs the rap .

You only get one shot dididumdum . One opertunity .

Pace2008

I'm seeing some eerie similarities in posting style and bizarre grammatical errors between joydivision and a certain banned troll from this thread...

joydivision

Can this banned troll rap young jeezee.

Pace2008

joydivision wrote: »

Can this banned troll rap young jeezee.

About as well as he can spell, punctuate and express a cogent opinion on musical topics.

joydivision

Pace2008 wrote: »

About as well as he can spell, punctuate and express a cogent opinion on musical topics.

Was that the first line .
I lift weights on my porch strong like horse , its like piston pumping robotics .

Is this a good second line . Do you like my flow dog .

Raif Severance

I try to be very open-minded when it comes to music, but there are really some things that leaves an unpleasant expression in my ears.

Bob Dylan- I always feel like nodding off to any of his songs. It doesn't help that he sounds bored when he's singing. I actually prefer The Byrds and his son's Wallflower's version to his originals.

Country Music- I just don't get the appeal of this one. It's up there with Rap as the 2 Muscial Genre that I definitely avoid. Though I must say in defense of Rap, there are some Rap Songs that I can appreciate and/or at least tolerate. Not with Country. I can't for the life of me, think of one Country Song that I enjoyed listening too. Be that as it may, I still think Rappers are the most talentless musical artists around.

bodhrandude

joydivision wrote: »

Apart from the revolution will not be televised I have yet to see anything Id call good poetry . Some of eminems stuff is good but its more funny riming than a social commentary .

Gil Scott Heron was the business I would also quote James Brown for examples of early rap. Hip Hop became famous through the likes of the Sugarhill Gang rapping over Chic instrumentals, I prefer the much colder and realistic Grandmaster Flash and his single The Message. I left school that year in 1982 and this was the first rap single to show poverty and the seedier side to the US.

Green Giant

Republic of Loose - just not for me but best of luck to em

flyswatter

Agree on the message by Grandmaster flash, very important track, pretty special.

patakadarragh

Screamo, emo, all that stuff where the fellas wear eyeliner and that, musically can respect some of it but don't understand the appeal whatsoever.

flyswatter

patakadarragh wrote: »

Screamo, emo, all that stuff where the fellas wear eyeliner and that, musically can respect some of it but don't understand the appeal whatsoever.

Well on the appeal thing , isn't it obvious enough that there are lots of angsty teenagers around?

patakadarragh

flyswatter wrote: »

Well on the appeal thing , isn't it obvious enough that there are lots of angsty teenagers around?

Well then they might get it, but i don't, isn't that what this thread is about?

flyswatter

patakadarragh wrote: »

Well then they might get it, but i don't, isn't that what this thread is about?

Yes. Sorry, I read your last point in general terms for some reason!

SilverScreen

patakadarragh wrote: »

Screamo, emo, all that stuff where the fellas wear eyeliner and that, musically can respect some of it but don't understand the appeal whatsoever.

I find that emo and screamo are two of the most misused terms in music in modern times, the same way that people refer to stuff like Skrillex as dubstep.

Emo or emocore or emotional hardcore was born out of hardcore punk in the mid-80s as a reaction to the restrictions and increasing machoness of hardcore at the time. Bands began to add more melody and adopt more personal lyrical themes. One such band were Embrace (not to be confused with the 90s britpop band Embrace) who were formed by Minor Threat vocalist Ian MacKaye after the dissolution of said band. Other bands included Rites Of Spring, Dag Nasty, Indian Summer and Moss Icon. Ian MacKaye's response to the term 'emocore' was "as if hardcore wasn't emotional enough to begin with." These bands were far removed from what the wider public views as 'emo' today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USiqsYlfTLA

When the original wave of emo splintered in the early 90s bands began to combine it's influence with alternative rock and indie-emo (or indiemo for short) was born. This was the style that was generally referred to as 'emo' during the 90's and such bands included Sunny Day Real Estate, Cap'n Jazz, Braid, American Football and early Jimmy Eat World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMkH6xi6-Og

(Yes that's Nate Mendel of Foo Fighters on bass)

On the other side of the coin some bands took the original wave of emo and took it to a whole new level, adopting complex song structures, odd time-signatures and screamed vocals and, yes you've guessed it, screamo was born. Example bands included Saetia, Circle Takes The Square, City Of Caterpillar and Jerome's Dream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYRbgy4NwQ

By the way none of these bands wore eye-liner, nail-polish or the likes (apart from female band members I guess), they dressed like relatively normal people. I'm not sure where this whole 'scenester' image thing came to be or how bands like My Chemical Romance became associated with emo. But just like any musical genre that has emerged over the decades the definition seems to change or get warped by the media when it starts to become popular. It happened to punk, it happened to grunge and it happened to emo.

patakadarragh

Zero1986 wrote: »

I find that emo and screamo are two of the most misused terms in music in modern times, the same way that people refer to stuff like Skrillex as dubstep.

Emo or emocore or emotional hardcore was born out of hardcore punk in the mid-80s as a reaction to the restrictions and increasing machoness of hardcore at the time. Bands began to add more melody and adopt more personal lyrical themes. One such band were Embrace (not to be confused with the 90s britpop band Embrace) who were formed by Minor Threat vocalist Ian MacKaye after the dissolution of said band. Other bands included Rites Of Spring, Dag Nasty, Indian Summer and Moss Icon. Ian MacKaye's response to the term 'emocore' was "as if hardcore wasn't emotional enough to begin with." These bands were far removed from what the wider public views as 'emo' today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USiqsYlfTLA

When the original wave of emo splintered in the early 90s bands began to combine it's influence with alternative rock and indie-emo (or indiemo for short) was born. This was the style that was generally referred to as 'emo' during the 90's and such bands included Sunny Day Real Estate, Cap'n Jazz, Braid, American Football and early Jimmy Eat World.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMkH6xi6-Og

(Yes that's Nate Mendel of Foo Fighters on bass)

On the other side of the coin some bands took the original wave of emo and took it to a whole new level, adopting complex song structures, odd time-signatures and screamed vocals and, yes you've guessed it, screamo was born. Example bands included Saetia, Circle Takes The Square, City Of Caterpillar and Jerome's Dream.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTYRbgy4NwQ

By the way none of these bands wore eye-liner, nail-polish or the likes (apart from female band members I guess), they dressed like relatively normal people. I'm not sure where this whole 'scenester' image thing came to be or how bands like My Chemical Romance became associated with emo. But just like any musical genre that has emerged over the decades the definition seems to change or get warped by the media when it starts to become popular. It happened to punk, it happened to grunge and it happened to emo.

Okay good point, perhaps i should have said "emo of late" as in what people refer to as emo lately nowadays, MCR, Black veil brides... i just dont get a lot of it. Screamed vocals i really dont get either, im just too mellow for that I guess

On another note, i have a strong dislike, even an irrational (at times) dislike for pop punk of late. GImme Blink or Early green day sure they were a bit of craic fun music like. But all time low, We the Kings, You me at six, i dunno what it is about them, i just can't stand that genre and never "got" them.