Land to be acquired for airport expansion

fricatus

From the News & Star:

News & Star wrote:

Land to be acquired for airport expansion

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

WATERFORD Co. Council is proceeding with plans to acquire approximately eight acres of land at Lisselan by compulsory purchase to facilitate an expansion at Waterford Airport.
The land is to be acquired to facilitate the construction of a runway end safety area and a potential runway extension. Of the total property to be acquired 7.303 acres are agricultural land and the remainder is part of a public roadway.
The land is owned by Michael Nolan, Holy Cross, Butlerstown, Waterford.
A spokesman for Waterford Co. Council said that there would be no loss of public roadway or not road closures as a result of the compulsory purchase of the land.
There are no immediate plans for an expansion but should money become available the land bank will be in place.
According to Graham Doyle, CEO of Waterford Airport a runway extension is part of the airport’s agenda but for the moment they would try and work with what they had.

Interesting stuff... IMO a runway extension (plus strengthening, widening and upgrading of ancillary equipment) is the only way to go for the airport in the future.

From reading other threads, it seems that about €30 million would do it. Surely we can find some local billionaire who could stump up the money and in return have his/her name on the terminal building?

CardBordWindow

It's a start anyways!

BBM77

What is the point of this? The government won’t pay for anything that would develop Waterford. Recent events have proved the development of Waterford is the last thing on their mind. Its so bad they would even reduce the services of WRH. It is like something the Israelis would do to the Gaza strip!

fricatus

BBM77 wrote: »

What is the point of this? The government won’t pay for anything that would develop Waterford. Recent events have proved the development of Waterford is the last thing on their mind. Its so bad they would even reduce the services of WRH. It is like something the Israelis would do to the Gaza strip!

Steady on there now. They're not bombing us in our beds and blaming us for it just yet!

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

What is the point of this? The government won’t pay for anything that would develop Waterford. Recent events have proved the development of Waterford is the last thing on their mind. Its so bad they would even reduce the services of WRH. It is like something the Israelis would do to the Gaza strip!

We need to move away from an attitude of requiring the Government to action and fund everything to a 'can-do' attitude where we look for solutions.

As far as I'm aware, the airport is a commercial enterprise. If they can make a business case for an expansion the Government shouldn't necessarily come into play at all.

Sully

BBM77 wrote: »

What is the point of this? The government won’t pay for anything that would develop Waterford. Recent events have proved the development of Waterford is the last thing on their mind. Its so bad they would even reduce the services of WRH. It is like something the Israelis would do to the Gaza strip!

That's not very fair now. Waterford has done very well from government investment past and present and is mostly doing very poorly towards jobs.

This current government has given significant investment towards Waterford;

- Court House expansion for at least two court rooms with a possibility of four court rooms.
- Possibility that a new fire station will be built in Waterford, allowing for a full expansion, as above, of the court house and not just part. Work is ongoing.
- 8m Flood Relief,
- 2m Viking Triangle, Signage, Paving, etc.
- Funding towards WRH; A&E with e Trauma Centre, relocation allowing for development of 5 isolation children cystic fibrosis rooms,
- 1.44m for Waterford Co Co water works (by Phil Hogan),
- Funding for the the WIT Carriganore campus,
- Funding for Splashworld in Tramore,
- Funding for a new Cycle Route scheme across Waterford.

We have received continued funding for our airport despite other airports, including Galway, having their funding withdrawn by the government. But the Minister for Transport, who has family connections to Waterford, has stated that airports need to work on helping themselves as there isn't a huge amount of funding that can be made available to smaller airports.

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

From the News & Star:




Interesting stuff... IMO a runway extension (plus strengthening, widening and upgrading of ancillary equipment) is the only way to go for the airport in the future.

From reading other threads, it seems that about €30 million would do it. Surely we can find some local billionaire who could stump up the money and in return have his/her name on the terminal building?

A good news story though.

I suppose the question must be asked. How - in God's name - can it cost €30m? Seriously?

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

We need to move away from an attitude of requiring the Government to action and fund everything to a 'can-do' attitude where we look for solutions.

As far as I'm aware, the airport is a commercial enterprise. If they can make a business case for an expansion the Government shouldn't necessarily come into play at all.

Waterford Airport has stood on its own two feet without support from ANY Government for years. I think they need a hand out now. And no - that isn't a dig at FG/Lab.:)

CantGetNoSleep

Sully is that a serious post or a joke? Funding towards WRH? Why do we pay taxes?

hardybuck

7upfree wrote: »

Waterford Airport has stood on its own two feet without support from ANY Government for years. I think they need a hand out now. And no - that isn't a dig at FG/Lab.:)

This statement is incorrect. The Government funds the airport to the tune of €1 million per annum. And no - that isn't me supporting FG/Lab.

gw80

rent out the (strip) to car and motorbike clubs for racing, maybe a motorsport club to have drag racing events:) id pay, although i suspect oil deposits on a working runway would be a concern

7upfree

hardybuck wrote: »

This statement is incorrect. The Government funds the airport to the tune of €1 million per annum. And no - that isn't me supporting FG/Lab.

Very minimum funding compared to what's gone in elsewhere though. That Shannon has been a running joke for decades. If they had a proper runway it would be serious competition for Cork and Dublin. I still would ask again though - how can it cost €30m?

air2000

I still would ask again though - how can it cost €30m?

It wont. In 2006 the airport was going to be allocated €27 million. This would have been for a jet runway, lighting, nav aids, new terminal extension and upgrades to all areas that come with Jet operations.

It would now cost about €10 million maybe alot less to just do the runway. The current terminal could cope with Jet operations for a year or two.

Maybe just take the first step and just add 400 meters and widen to 37 giving it a similar runway to Southend. Works well for Easyjet.

Teebor15

From reading other threads, it seems that about €30 million would do it

No Idea where your getting 30 million from. The Airport was approved 22.5 million from Government funds in 2007 as long as they raised an additional 5 million themselves. This was to pay for a really big upgrade, with extra taxiways, hangars, navigational equipment, bigger terminal, etc. But i believe they could do alot with about 8-10 million today.

Surely we can find some local billionaire who could stump up the money and in return have his/her name on the terminal building?

Haha..yeah. John Magnier. The racing/breeding tycoon of Coolmore Stud fame used to fly in there regulary in his executive jet, often direct from his other home in the Carribean. He would have been ideal to tap but i dont think he was interested. He has since bought a larger Jet an A319CJ which is similiar size to the passenger Jets the airport is trying to attract. Ironicly..he now uses Cork and Shannon as of course the runway here is too small!!

As far as I'm aware, the airport is a commercial enterprise. If they can make a business case for an expansion the Government shouldn't necessarily come into play at all.

Yes it is a commerical enterprise, but like nearly every airport of a comparable size it will always be trying to just break even. Airports need to be looked on as more of a driver and supporter of the economy of a region. Hence the reason they should be invested in is to bring tourists direct to our region to spend in the local shops, hotels and to bring businesses directly here to set up and provide jobs.

We have received continued funding for our airport despite other airports, including Galway, having their funding withdrawn by the government. But the Minister for Transport, who has family connections to Waterford, has stated that airports need to work on helping themselves as there isn't a huge amount of funding that can be made available to smaller airports.

Yes, and i'm sure the airport is very appreciative of the operational support it gets from the government at the moment but its not solving the problem. Why not provide the one off investment in the runway to allow them help themselves. Look at the passenger number going through the 3 other similair size airports on the island in Kerry, Knock and Derry. We could easily get those figures and the knock on benefits to the region if we had the facilities.

Very minimum funding compared to what's gone in elsewhere though. That Shannon has been a running joke for decades

Thats so true. I belive Cork at the moment is running at an annual loss of about 14 million...and as for Shannon well thats just a complete basket case at the moment!

thund3rbird_

Sully wrote: »

- Court House expansion for at least two court rooms with a possibility of four court rooms.
- Possibility that a new fire station will be built in Waterford, allowing for a full expansion, as above, of the court house and not just part. Work is ongoing.

if the recent news is true, the fire station will be extended to include the court house as it won't be needed now that it's being shifted to KK

Sully

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Sully is that a serious post or a joke? Funding towards WRH? Why do we pay taxes?

Serious post. Many claim we get absolutely no funding at all from the state. I'm pointing out what we get. Whether or not we should be getting it because we pay taxes is irrelevant to my point.

thund3rbird_ wrote: »

if the recent news is true, the fire station will be extended to include the court house as it won't be needed now that it's being shifted to KK

The recent news is being misinterpreted. The court house has been given funding and wont be moved to Kilkenny.

mike65

Glad to hear this, in truth an upgrade to take small/medium jets was the only way the airport was going to have an chance in the medium to long term. Now where the funding will come from is another matter. If Waterford PLC had any wit about it every multi-national would club together to buy out the airport and do the funding itself, but that kind of speculate to accumulate thinking is probably beyond most of them.

CantGetNoSleep

Sully wrote: »

Serious post. Many claim we get absolutely no funding at all from the state. I'm pointing out what we get. Whether or not we should be getting it because we pay taxes is irrelevant to my point.



The recent news is being misinterpreted. The court house has been given funding and wont be moved to Kilkenny.

There was a few people standing about in town last week complaining about some James guy trying to downgrade the hospital, maybe you should read up on it.

periodictable

Jesus Christ-we're a tiny island. Are Dublin/Cork/Shannon not enough? Galway city which is bigger than Waterford city has had its airport shut down for over a year.

fricatus

periodictable wrote: »

Jesus Christ-we're a tiny island. Are Dublin/Cork/Shannon not enough? Galway city which is bigger than Waterford city has had its airport shut down for over a year.

We're not that tiny an island, Waterford, Wexford and Kilkenny are all more than 90 minutes from a major airport, whereas Galway is within an hour of both Knock and Shannon.

The more densely populated east of the country has only one major airport, whereas there are four in the west. There's definitely a case for spending €10m or so in Waterford.

This map gives a good overview (although I don't know why they haven't got a pink circle around Kerry)

7upfree

€10m? For a runway? The Outer Ring Road only cost €26m.

fricatus

7upfree wrote: »

€10m? For a runway? The Outer Ring Road only cost €26m.

Ah Jaysus 7up, they don't just slap down a bit of tarmac bejaysus and say dere's yer runway boss, Paddy in de van will take de munny offa ya!

A runway needs to be a certain depth, in addition to its length and width. It also needs lighting and navigational equipment, plus lines, drainage, signage etc. The taxiway and apron (the parking area) would probably need a certain amount of upgrading.

€10m is a bargain. You wouldn't get Wayne Rooney's services for a year for that.

fricatus

Interesting post from another thread:

sparkling sea wrote: »

I have it on very good authority that the runway is to be extended, and a new airline will be taking over the British routes thanfully. Can't wait for the jets.

Hear hear, I hope it's true! It's the only way for the airport to go. Any idea where the funding is coming from? (in the current economic climate and all that...)

I wonder how they would handle the upgrade. AFAIK the options are twofold:

- close the airport for however long the upgrade takes - I know Bologna did this about five years ago.
- build a parallel runway - Kerry did this, as is obvious if you search for it on Google maps.

Even if they have to close up for the few months, it would be worth it in the long run.

Has anyone else got any idea what option is being considered in the event this is true and is going ahead?

lertsnim

BBM77 wrote: »

It is like something the Israelis would do to the Gaza strip!

What a stupid statement for anybody to make.

BBM77

lertsnim wrote: »

What a stupid statement for anybody to make.

It is no more stupid than a lot of what is posted here, I don’t know why you are singling my stupid comment out?

All I was trying to say is that Waterford has to deal with the recession and deal with problems that other regions don’t have to deal with like not having a university. To top it off it has to face pretty dubious actions by the government that are making matters worse. I mean the economic effect of downgrading WRH would be huge. Another example would be the withdrawing of funding for the two new buildings in WIT. If the government really wanted to help Waterford these are exactly the things that they should be funding. And all of this is from a government that we pay our taxes to like the rest of the country and are supposed to be our own people.

I never claimed the government is bombing us and we absolutely have to help ourselves but as I said we pay our taxes to like the rest of the country and as far as I am concerned like for like we are not treated equally.

Also these “significant investment towards Waterford” are relatively piece meal and do nothing to address the underlying problems that Waterford faces that are in the remit of government action and not things we can do for ourselves.

I am sorry if I offended anybody with my Gaza strip comment.

air2000

I have it on very good authority that the runway is to be extended, and a new airline will be taking over the British routes thanfully. Can't wait for the jets.

He'll be waiting a while then, when uk routes comes back it will be the good old buzz of Pratt & Whitney Canada PW100 turboprops.

7upfree

fricatus wrote: »

Ah Jaysus 7up, they don't just slap down a bit of tarmac bejaysus and say dere's yer runway boss, Paddy in de van will take de munny offa ya!

A runway needs to be a certain depth, in addition to its length and width. It also needs lighting and navigational equipment, plus lines, drainage, signage etc. The taxiway and apron (the parking area) would probably need a certain amount of upgrading.

€10m is a bargain. You wouldn't get Wayne Rooney's services for a year for that.

Ah still though. It's still Tarmac.

b757

7upfree wrote: »

Ah still though. It's still Tarmac.

Technically your right, tarmac is part of it! :P

The runway out in the airport needs to basically stripped up at the edges so a new foundation to be put in place and widened. Plus like what was said before it needs to be certain thickness and strength. It also needs to be grooved to help drainage, etc. Lighting, signage, nav aids and runway markings all need to be taken into consideration also.


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Although I do only believe that the land acquired recently is only for the approach lighting. But, I also think that now could be the perfect time do get the job done..

27 million 4/5 years ago? Only about 15-20 million now. Can't see anyone coming in with funding though unless the airport really proves its case with the government, and show that it could be a viable investment.

7upfree

BBM77 wrote: »

I am sorry if I offended anybody with my Gaza strip comment.

Well, it is an economic bombardment of sorts though.

7upfree

lertsnim wrote: »

What a stupid statement for anybody to make.

Why?

mike65

you already answered that question