Is this racist?

Shane-KornSpace

Not really racist.

But he could have just said that he likes big lips

Tombi!

Piliger wrote: »

Of course it is not racist. It may be prejudiced or opinionated .. but NOT racist.
That is not racist except in someone's silly politically correct dictionary.

Except it is racist. It's not racist in terms of "I'm going to join the KKK to kill black people".

Scioch

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Scioch, it's racist in terms of "X is better than Y". Even me saying, I don't normally find black girls attractive and that I usually find Asian girls attractive is racist.
It's not racist enough that it should be offensive though or anything like that.
You're picking one race over another based on something about that race that you like.

Firstly its not saying anyone is better than anyone or anything is better than anything. Its saying "I like this".

Secondly not racist enough ? I dont follow, its either racist or it isnt. You're saying its acceptable to discriminate based on race, in certain situations. I understand that, its impossible to avoid in certain cases as seamus showed with medicine. But when it comes to personal opinion as this clearly is then its not unavoidable and is actual discrimination based on personal views which are solely based on race. Thats what we all understand as racism. So its either wrong to do that or it isnt.

But this isnt discrimination as far as I see.

Lollipops23

Rasheed wrote: »

Oh ya can sing it, she's a class A tit at times but it did make me think.

What is acceptable, in terms of commenting about features, that are seen more frequently in one 'race'?

If he said he loves the look of Mediterranean girls but didn't like the look of oriental girls, would that be classed as racist? Or just his own preference?

In terms of what you find physically attractive, it's not really something we have a say in- no more than gay people have a say in what gender they find attractive.

So long as you're not being a dick about it and you don't treat people of certain ethnicities differently or badly due to their colour, it's not an issue.

And I second the other poster, your female friend sounds like a gobsheen who doesn't fully understand what racism is...

strobe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

Yes but it's a feature generally common amongst blacks. It's like saying "I prefer pale white girls". It's still racist just not in a way of you should be offended.

Saying "i prefer pale white girls" isn't racist either.

Saying I prefer blue to red isn't saying red is inferior to blue, it's just stating a preference. It's subjective rather than objective. I don't believe either red or blue to be the superior colour objectively.


In seamus' wording that's an objective statement. But saying you like or prefer x over y says nothing objective about x or y.

I find 'white' skin more physically attractive than 'black' skin, but I'm not making any value statement on either white or black skin with that remark or by holding that preference. I'm not saying that black skin is inferior to white skin, nor do I hold that opinion, so I can't really see how anyone could claim its a racist sentiment.

Tombi!

Scioch wrote: »

Firstly its not saying anyone is better than anyone or anything is better than anything. Its saying "I like this".

Secondly not racist enough ? I dont follow, its either racist or it isnt. You're saying its acceptable to discriminate based on race, in certain situations. I understand that, its impossible to avoid in certain cases as seamus showed with medicine. But when it comes to personal opinion as this clearly is then its not unavoidable and is actual discrimination based on personal views which are solely based on race. Thats what we all understand as racism. So its either wrong to do that or it isnt.

But this isnt discrimination as far as I see.

It's racist in terms of "I like X race more instead of Y race".
Your personal opinion is fine but we're talking about what you find attractive.
If you said to me "why do you like Asian girls" for example, I could say "well I find X/Y/Z attractive about them".
That means I prefer Asian girls over other girls.

You're thinking that's it's about discrimination; that's only one (and a very common) definition of it. Racism is based on the belief that there are differences between various races. It's not racist in terms of discrimination though.

strobe wrote: »

Saying "i prefer pale white girls" isn't racist either.

Saying I prefer blue to red isn't saying red is inferior to blue, it's just stating a preference. It's subjective rather than objective. I don't believe either red or blue to be the superior colour objectively.


In seamus' wording that's an objective statement. But saying you like or prefer x over y says nothing objective about x or y.

I find 'white' skin more physically attractive than 'black' skin, but I'm not making any value statement on either white or black skin with that remark or by holding that preference. I'm not saying that black skin is inferior to white skin, nor do I hold that opinion, so I can't really see how anyone could claim its a racist sentiment.

Blue and red aren't unique to race, though. It's not racist in terms of offensive/discrimination though. It's racist in terms of "I prefer white women over black people" because you're making it clear you like the racial difference of skin colour.

CruelCoin

Rasheed wrote: »

Was out at the weekend and the lads in our group were describing their perfect woman. This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips.

Another member of the group then tackled him saying that it was a very racist thing to say. I personally disagreed with her. So it started out a debate in our group.

What do you think? Was it a racist to say? And not just about lips either but say a 'black woman's arse' or 'Jewish nose'.

What is acceptable, if anything, and what isn't?

Black people tend to have large lips, jews tend to have large noses, asians tend to be short, etc etc. Pointing out generalistic truths is not racism.

Would be different if i said "dem **** with dem lips", but that would be crass and racist. Speaking fact is not racist, the tone you put it in does.

old hippy

An ex of mine (a black lady) when she first kissed me said "not bad (lips) for a white guy"

Is it racist? I haven't a clue. I think she was half joking.

On a personal issue, I don't prefer any "type". It's the chemistry that matters.

Madbod

if racism is treating people differently cos of their race, then it is a perfectly acceptable part of our behaviour, because we all treat each other differently because of their sex, race, size, accent or if they are ginger. Appearance is a big part of the first impression, and if people are sexy or ugly that also shapes our attitudes towards each other.

BUT acting on your prejudices (beating someone up, not giving them a job, calling them a name) based on them being ginger/black/ugly etc is unacceptable and in some cases illegal,

i think the issue usually clears itself up if and when people accept we're all different but equal in status. So the guy who called you a racist is showing he isnt totally comfortable with the idea of black people being treated as equals yet, maybe because he hasnt met many people with different coloured skin, and is over compensating by being too "PC"

imo, anyway

strobe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

It's racist in terms of "I like X race more instead of Y race".
Your personal opinion is fine but we're talking about what you find attractive.
If you said to me "why do you like Asian girls" for example, I could say "well I find X/Y/Z attractive about them".
That means I prefer Asian girls over other girls.

You're thinking that's it's about discrimination; that's only one (and a very common) definition of it. Racism is based on the belief that there are differences between various races. It's not racist in terms of discrimination though.



Blue and red aren't unique to race, though. It's not racist in terms of offensive/discrimination though. It's racist in terms of "I prefer white women over black people" because you're making it clear you like the racial difference of skin colour.

You're missing the point of my red/blue thing. I wasn't mentioning colours in relation to race or racism in that paragraph, just trying to outline the difference between making a subjective expression of preference and an objective statement of value.

old hippy

CruelCoin wrote: »

Black people tend to have large lips, jews tend to have large noses, asians tend to be short, etc etc. Pointing out generalistic truths is not racism.

Would be different if i said "dem **** with dem lips", but that would be crass and racist. Speaking fact is not racist, the tone you put it in does.

Don't much care for generalisations, mind. For example, I find Irish people (esp those at home) don't seem to be very clued up on other peoples and how to treat them. That's a terrible generalisation, innit?

Scioch

Moral of this thread. Racism is all right. Down with Whitey !!

bb1234567

Your friend called that remark racist is really dumb. He wasnt being racist in any way at all, maybe a little ignorant but thats it..

strobe

"Racism is based on the belief that there are differences between various races."

There are differences between various races... it's not racism to say so.

Tombi!

strobe wrote: »

"Racism is based on the belief that there are differences between various races."

There are differences between various races... it's not racism to say so.

That's is racist, kinda. If you started talking about things that are common to each race then it's racist.

It's not offensive or discrimination though.

I think the problem is that unless it's offensive racism, then people think it's not racism.

Rasheed

bb1234567 wrote: »

Your friend called that remark racist is really dumb. He wasnt being racist in any way at all, maybe a little ignorant but thats it..

I completely agree that it wasn't racist, in my opinion, but how was he being ignorant?

strobe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That's is racist, kinda. If you started talking about things that are common to each race then it's racist.

It's not offensive or discrimination though.

I think the problem is that unless it's offensive racism, then people think it's not racism.

But it's not racist, at least not by any commonly used definition I've ever come across. The point I'm making has nothing to do with offense or discrimination or the lack of those things.

I mean, 'if you start talking about things that are common to each race'... so if I say black people tend to have darker skin than white people... racist?

Scanlas The 2nd

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That's is racist, kinda. If you started talking about things that are common to each race then it's racist.

It's not offensive or discrimination though.

I think the problem is that unless it's offensive racism, then people think it's not racism.

Of course there are differences between different "races". If acknowledging that fact makes one racist then I'm unashamedly a racist and don't see anything necessarily wrong with being a racist. Necessarily being the key word.

Tombi!

strobe wrote: »

But it's not racist, at least not by any commonly used definition I've ever come across. It has nothing to do with offense or discrimination.

But it's still racism at its most basic definition. It seems like I'm being pedantic but I'm not. I haven't said it's offensive or discriminatory at all. I've said the opposite. But that doesn't change the fact it's still racist. It just means it's not racist as in "you're being offensive by saying it".

Scioch

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

That's is racist, kinda. If you started talking about things that are common to each race then it's racist.

It's not offensive or discrimination though.

I think the problem is that unless it's offensive racism, then people think it's not racism.

But you know when people use the word racism they are not talking about the actual strict definition of the word as per wikipedia. They mean negative stereotyping and discrimination.

What you are saying is "Black people exist, its racist to mention it, but racism can be ok or not ok". Its clear when someone uses the word racism in a context like this they are talking about the not ok part of it.

Because the fact is we are all racists as we can all see the differences between different racial groups.

Tombi!

Scioch wrote: »

But you know when people use the word racism they are not talking about the actual strict definition of the word as per wikipedia. They mean negative stereotyping and discrimination.

What you are saying is "Black people exist, its racist to mention it, but racism can be ok or not ok". Its clear when someone uses the word racism in a context like this they are talking about the not ok part of it.

No, my first post was:

Well kinda. I mean he's technically saying once race (black) is superior because of a trait.
Plus other women can have big lips

And you said this:
He didnt say it was better or worse, he said he liked the feature. You cant argue that attraction has to be blind to physical characteristics or that those characteristics are not specific to one race. So either its not racist or human nature is inherently racist and therefore racism is justifiable.

You were being too black or white about it. And you still are. To you, it's either "racist and I should get offended" or else "not racist".

CruelCoin

old hippy wrote: »

Don't much care for generalisations, mind. For example, I find Irish people (esp those at home) don't seem to be very clued up on other peoples and how to treat them. That's a terrible generalisation, innit?

Not terrible at all. The Irish who don't like to travel abroad tend to be thick as **** and i'd agree with you.

The vast majority of black people do TEND to have large lips, jews example, asians blahblah. Whats you point?
Unless you can prove my point of "tendancy" to be invalid, then you're just being pedantic.

strobe

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

But it's still racism at its most basic definition. It seems like I'm being pedantic but I'm not. I haven't said it's offensive or discriminatory at all. I've said the opposite. But that doesn't change the fact it's still racist. It just means it's not racist as in "you're being offensive by saying it".

You're not being pedantic, you're just being wrong. :pac:

Anyways, I better get back to work, the woman I'm working for is an Eskimo, and you know what that lot are like.

Scioch

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

No, my first post was:

Well kinda. I mean he's technically saying once race (black) is superior because of a trait.
Plus other women can have big lips

And you said this:
He didnt say it was better or worse, he said he liked the feature. You cant argue that attraction has to be blind to physical characteristics or that those characteristics are not specific to one race. So either its not racist or human nature is inherently racist and therefore racism is justifiable.

You were being too black or white about it. And you still are. To you, it's either "racist and I should get offended" or else "not racist".

But he's not I like chicken, I dont think a chicken is a superior being to a goose.

He is saying he likes a particular characteristic that is specific to black women.

kowloon

Anyone else getting this down the corner of the page?

Tombi!

Scioch wrote: »

But he's not I like chicken, I dont think a chicken is a superior being to a goose.

He's saying he prefers This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips. He loves something about black women or at least something that is common amongst black people, the fact that they have bigger lips (usually) than other races. So he is still saying there's a difference amongst races and I prefer one race's lips over another.
I guess I am coming across as being pedantic now and I really didn't mean to be.

nocoverart

Yup OP...... DAS RACIST



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc__3nsfxwA

Ush1

kowloon wrote: »

Anyone else getting this down the corner of the page?

I'm getting ads for the same website in the middle with a black fella and a ginger wan!

Scioch

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

He's saying he prefers This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips. He loves something about black women or at least something that is common amongst black people, the fact that they have bigger lips (usually) than other races. So he is still saying there's a difference amongst races and I prefer one race's lips over another.
I guess I am coming across as being pedantic now and I really didn't mean to be.

He's pointing out a difference though not assigning superiority. I get the whole strict definition of racism. But I dont get how you think an attraction to a particular feature is akin to claiming the race is superior.

I can say I like pale skin without inferring white people are superior to black people.

MakeEmLaugh

"It's just like saying black people have thick lips. It's not racist. It's true. We have thicker lips, and white people can't dance."
- Eddie Murphy

Tombi!

Scioch wrote: »

He's pointing out a difference though not assigning superiority. I get the whole strict definition of racism. But I dont get how you think an attraction to a particular feature is akin to claiming the race is superior.

I didn't say that any race is superior. You're still looking at it through the context of "it's racist so it has to be offensive". I don't need to say something offensive to be racist. I just need to say there's a difference between races but most people wouldn't call me racist even though I'm still being racist.

9959

Rasheed wrote: »

Was out at the weekend and the lads in our group were describing their perfect woman. This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips.

Another member of the group then tackled him saying that it was a very racist thing to say. I personally disagreed with her. So it started out a debate in our group.

What do you think? Was it a racist to say? And not just about lips either but say a 'black woman's arse' or 'Jewish nose'.

What is acceptable, if anything, and what isn't?

I'm not sure if it's racist, but it is sexual objectification.
We're talking about human beings here, not a pick 'n' mix sweet selection, what was the average age of 'the lads', 14?

What happened to being attracted to a fully entire/complete human being - whether Black, White or Cerise - with their very own legs, noses and asses, of course sexual attraction is an important factor, but so also is personality, potential compatibility, a shared sense of humour and so on.
I know to some the above may seem ludicrously 'right-on', but really when you think about it, it's just common sense.

Scioch

Brutal Deluxe wrote: »

I didn't say that any race is superior. You're still looking at it through the context of "it's racist so it has to be offensive". I don't need to say something offensive to be racist. I just need to say there's a difference between races but most people wouldn't call me racist even though I'm still being racist.

No, my first post was:

Well kinda. I mean he's technically saying once race (black) is superior because of a trait.
Plus other women can have big lips

You implied that his attraction to big lips was equal to him stating black people as a race were superior.

I have already agreed with the Oxford English dictionary definition of what constitutes racism. But you know as well as everyone else what the OP meant when he said it. It certainly is little more than pedantry to continue to repeat what the word can mean. Lets get back to what the word in this context DID mean. It meant offensive/derogatory/wrong.

He said he liked big lips that are most associated with black women. Is that racist ? No. Is he implying black people are superior ? No. Do we need the dictionary definition again ? No.

Rasheed

9959 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's racist, but it is sexual objectification.
We're talking about human beings here, not a pick 'n' mix sweet selection, what was the average age of 'the lads', 14?

What happened to being attracted to a fully entire/complete human being - whether Black, White or Cerise - with their very own legs, noses and asses, of course sexual attraction is an important factor, but so also is personality, potential compatibility, a shared sense of humour and so on.
I know to some the above may seem ludicrously 'right-on', but really when you think about it, it's just common sense.

The 'lad' is 29, don't see what his age has to do with it.

He wasn't filling in a mail order bride form, he was just describing what he
finds attractive, looks wise, in a lady.

smash

9959 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it's racist, but it is sexual objectification.
We're talking about human beings here, not a pick 'n' mix sweet selection, what was the average age of 'the lads', 14?

So once you go beyond puberty people aren't allowed objectify others sexually?

9959 wrote: »

What happened to being attracted to a fully entire/complete human being - whether Black, White or Cerise - with their very own legs, noses and asses, of course sexual attraction is an important factor, but so also is personality, potential compatibility, a shared sense of humour and so on.
I know to some the above may seem ludicrously 'right-on', but really when you think about it, it's just common sense.

You need to change your name to buzzkillington... that post is utterly ridicules.

suicide_circus

If i find difference or similarity between people based on race, then i am by definition a racist. AND I'M FINE WITH THAT.

fishy fishy

Rasheed wrote: »

Was out at the weekend and the lads in our group were describing their perfect woman. This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips.

Another member of the group then tackled him saying that it was a very racist thing to say. I personally disagreed with her. So it started out a debate in our group.

What do you think? Was it a racist to say? And not just about lips either but say a 'black woman's arse' or 'Jewish nose'.

What is acceptable, if anything, and what isn't?

no it's not racist.

If a black person said she/he loved the Irish girls with red hair, would you consider that to be racist.

The world is gone mad :rolleyes:

fishy fishy

LyndaMcL wrote: »

Agreed. Curvy is Kim Kardashian, she's thin with a curvy wasit/ass/boob ratio. Curvy is not 16 stone women.

LOL it's amazing how some people get sucked into what the media want you to believe.

:D

fishy fishy

seamus wrote: »

Literally, yes it's racist. Any statement that says "<race>'s <feature> is <better/worse>" is racist, by definition.

Socially, no it's generally not considered wrong or racist to have specific preferences when it comes to the physical appearance of your mate.

completely and utterly wrong I'm afraid.

Piliger

seamus wrote: »

Literally, yes it's racist. Any statement that says "<race>'s <feature> is <better/worse>" is racist, by definition.

How insane is that :rolleyes:

fishy fishy

seamus wrote: »

There are also other simple and obvious things like sunbeds. A sunbed operator might advise a pale skinned person to stay no longer than five minutes, but allow a black skinned person 45 minutes.

Racist? Yep, clearly. It's discrimination on the basis of race. Is it negative racism? Nope.

are you serious??
why is it discrimination?? is it because a fair skinned person burns more easily than a dark skinned person and so is advised to stay on a sun bed less. You call that discrimination. What a load of twaddle. Personally, I would call it common sense.

:cool:

kowloon

Scioch wrote: »

But he's not I like chicken, I dont think a chicken is a superior being to a goose.

He is saying he likes a particular characteristic that is specific to black women.

I'll come right out and say it: Chickens are superior to Geese. Geese are arseholes, as are Swans.

fishy fishy

bb1234567 wrote: »

Your friend called that remark racist is really dumb. He wasnt being racist in any way at all, maybe a little ignorant but thats it..

ignorent?? where do you get that out of.

old hippy

CruelCoin wrote: »

Not terrible at all. The Irish who don't like to travel abroad tend to be thick as **** and i'd agree with you.

The vast majority of black people do TEND to have large lips, jews example, asians blahblah. Whats you point?
Unless you can prove my point of "tendancy" to be invalid, then you're just being pedantic.

I'd just like to know what the point of this stupid assed thread is :rolleyes:

9959

smash wrote: »

So once you go beyond puberty people aren't allowed objectify others sexually?


You need to change your name to buzzkillington... that post is utterly ridicules.

Not at all. Hugh Hefner is over 14, as far as I'm concerned yourself and Hugh can objectify to your heart's desire. 'Allowed' doesn't apply.


I thought that using ridicule was a legitimate way to a point on these boards, is that not 'allowed'?

B.A._Baracus

Rasheed wrote: »

Was out at the weekend and the lads in our group were describing their perfect woman. This certain lad said he loved black woman's lips, as in big lips.

Another member of the group then tackled him saying that it was a very racist thing to say. I personally disagreed with her. So it started out a debate in our group.

Certainly not a racist thing to say.
Remember, in this context its a person saying how they find it attractive. Positive, not negitive.

Thats just 'Pc' assholes jumping at the chance to try and be "morally right"

Dr Turk Turkelton

kowloon wrote: »

I'll come right out and say it: Chickens are superior to Geese. Geese are arseholes, as are Swans.

Now that's just plain chickenist.
Geese and swans are people too you know.
After a comment like this you should be brought to the war trials convention in the Hague for attempting to create genocide.

(pretty much the most sense talked in this whole stupid thread).

old hippy

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Certainly not a racist thing to say.
Remember, in this context its a person saying how they find it attractive. Positive, not negitive.

Thats just 'Pc' assholes jumping at the chance to try and be "morally right"

I'd love to meet one of these mythical pc types, so beloved of internet forums

Rasheed

old hippy wrote: »

I'd just like to know what the point of this stupid assed thread is :rolleyes:

Because I wanted to know what people's opinion were on what constitutes racism when discussing features seen predominantly in one race. That answer your question?

old hippy

Rasheed wrote: »

Because I wanted to know what people's opinion were on what constitutes racism when discussing features seen predominantly in one race. That answer your question?

Or perhaps it was yet another needless forum for those who love a good moan about "pc" types?

Do you think it's racist?