Unprovoked attack in UK

pontia

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

green123

old hippy wrote: »

Er, ye already have ghettos in Ireland, long before immigration occured.

and we dont want anymore ghettos.

why do you want to introduce more problems to ireland ?

Jezek

pontia wrote: »

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

not biting

jblack

pontia wrote: »

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

Mods: I kinda knew this thread would end up here when I started it, but thought there would be some interesting discussion (and there has been some good stuff) before we hit the inevitable pit.

Any chance this could be locked - It's just gone boring now, and potentially ugly.

Cheers

jb

Cedrus

pontia wrote: »

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

I think that has more to do with the scumbags at the top than those at the bottom.
Does your post have any relevance to this thread?

Madam_X

Jezek wrote: »

not biting

jblack wrote: »

Mods: I kinda knew this thread would end up here when I started it, but thought there would be some interesting discussion (and there has been some good stuff) before we hit the inevitable pit.

Any chance this could be locked - It's just gone boring now, and potentially ugly.

Cheers

jb

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

Cedrus

Madam_X wrote: »

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

Are you a eugenics supporter?

Giselle

Madam_X wrote: »

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

Its a question worth asking, but only if the asker is REALLY interested in the historical, sociological and economic reasons behind the statistic.

Thats usually not the case in AH, however genuine the original intention. Sadly.

Jezek

Madam_X wrote: »

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

The question is so badly posed, and such a non-sequitur that makes me wonder. That combined with the fact that this is AH, almost makes it certain.

If someone wants to examine that in depth, start a thread and invite a deep discussion with a well-thought-out question. Don't show up in a completely unrelated thread with a one-liner.

Just don't feed the trolls is what I'm saying.

Edit: After having a look at that person's post history, I'm gonna say either troll or hate-filled person. So either way...

jblack

Madam_X wrote: »

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

Irony much?

At first principles no, absolutely nothing wrong, in fact ignoring such a question because of perceived sensitivities is even worse. However, you have accused me of making an assumption whereinfact it is you who has assumed my reasons.

This was originally a thread about an assault, nothing in the op inferred racial motive or the plight of any particular ethnic group. These threads have a habit of ending up in the same place; have a gander at the legal discussions forum.

biko

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

.When arrested Ayoade told police he was intimidated by the petite teen and that 'she started it', Thames Magistrates' Court was told

Sound like he has a mental illness.

Nodin

Madam_X wrote: »

You seriously think there's something wrong with people wondering why there are such high crime rates among the black population? It's pretty narrowminded to assume anyone who asks that question is doing so for racist reasons.

No, theres something wrong with people talking bollocks, as the number is 40%.

Madam_X

Cedrus wrote: »

Are you a eugenics supporter?

Wtf?! Give me one shred of anything in my post that indicates that. If you're going to ask a question of that nature, at least read the person's posts first. Although it's more a lazy cheapshot than a question.

Giselle wrote: »

Its a question worth asking, but only if the asker is REALLY interested in the historical, sociological and economic reasons behind the statistic.

And to address what grassroots solution there would be to steer black kids away from crime etc.

Thats usually not the case in AH, however genuine the original intention. Sadly.

Absolutely. But there are also people who jump on any opportunity to find offence and racism where there isn't any (like that genius above who asked if I'm a eugenics supporter :rolleyes:) and who like to sweep facts under the carpet. To get to the root of these problems and address them, certain realities need to be faced. Sticking heads in the sand just helps allow the cycle to continue.

Cedrus

I was just wondering. You support the right to wonder don't you?

As for your comment that I should read posts before comment, I think that you should read your own posts because they stink of racism. Having been subjected to racism of various strains in almost every country I have lived in I will not apologise for being offended by your defence of the indefensible.

Allyall

pontia wrote: »

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

Most quoted quote on one page?

I'd say the question could be rephrased as:

Why are crime rates so high from poor/impoverished areas? 80% of prisoners in the World are not from Wealthy areas.

Madam_X

Cedrus wrote: »

I was just wondering. You support the right to wonder don't you?

As for your comment that I should read posts before comment, I think that you should read your own posts because they stink of racism. Having been subjected to racism of various strains in almost every country I have lived in I will not apologise for being offended by your defence of the indefensible.

Please find my posts that stink of racism and defend racism.

You have a right to wonder whether a person supports eugenics if they give good reason to cause you to wonder that - so do, please, provide any comments that warrant it.

recylingbin

Dom Jolly is taking this sh*t too far.

Cedrus

Madam_X wrote: »

Please find my posts that stink of racism and defend racism.

I already did, I quoted it, as did several others.

Do you even know what eugenics means?

Madam_X

Asking why there is a high level of crime within certain communities (could easily be the Irish in certain parts of the world) is, in my case, merely asking why; wondering what factors lead to it - presumably poverty, social exclusion among others, and wondering what could be done to help people break the cycle and have better lives for themselves and their families. Education is probably the main one, so how could an education programme be implemented, how can there be more inclusion to address the disenfranchisement experienced by many communities.

Eugenics is about exclusion and more - it's about controlling the population growth of particular races, and advocated by the nazis. NOTHING I have said implies I would support such an extreme position. You said my "posts" plural stink of racism and that I "defend" racism. If you actually read some of my previous posts you'd see I am not a racist and some knuckleheads would probably call me a pc bleeding heart bla bla.

It seems more like you *want* to misinterpret what I'm saying and cry racism which is my conclusion based on your outlandish claims about me defending racism and your inflammatory question about eugenics (based on nothing). And that actually breaks the number one rule on Boards - "Don't be a dick".

Giselle

Madam_X wrote: »

Asking why there is a high level of crime within certain communities (could easily be the Irish in certain parts of the world) is, in my case, merely asking why; wondering what factors lead to it - presumably poverty, social exclusion among others, and wondering what could be done to help people break the cycle and have better lives for themselves and their families.

Advocating common sense, as above, is oceans of enormity away from advocating eugenics.

Its nothing to do with colour or race per se, its a question of poverty and economic opportunity.

HavingCrack

Giselle wrote: »

Advocating common sense, as above, is oceans of enormity away from advocating eugenics.

Its nothing to do with colour or race per se, its a question of poverty and economic opportunity.

This is actually a big problem in the US. Asian immigrants are very successful in the US and Asian-Americans are overtaking European-Americans in terms of relative wealth and education. However, despite lots of laws, welfare programs, college aid etc. African-Americans continue to remain at the bottom of the socio economic ladder in the US. Why is this? I suspect racism probably plays a part (I don't know how significant) but there has to be more factors at play than this when there are lots of black Americans who do perfectly fine (look at Obama for fecks sake). However any attempt to discuss this is seen as racist. Stifling debate for the sake of being PC does no one any good.

Jezek

HavingCrack wrote: »

This is actually a big problem in the US. Asian immigrants are very successful in the US and Asian-Americans are overtaking European-Americans in terms of relative wealth and education. However, despite lots of laws, welfare programs, college aid etc. African-Americans continue to remain at the bottom of the socio economic ladder in the US. Why is this? I suspect racism probably plays a part (I don't know how significant) but there has to be more factors at play than this when there are lots of black Americans who do perfectly fine (look at Obama for fecks sake). However any attempt to discuss this is seen as racist. Stifling debate for the sake of being PC does no one any good.

discussing this in an unrelated thread isn't great either. Start another thread if you are so interested.

Giselle

HavingCrack wrote: »

This is actually a big problem in the US. Asian immigrants are very successful in the US and Asian-Americans are overtaking European-Americans in terms of relative wealth and education. However, despite lots of laws, welfare programs, college aid etc. African-Americans continue to remain at the bottom of the socio economic ladder in the US. Why is this? I suspect racism probably plays a part (I don't know how significant) but there has to be more factors at play than this when there are lots of black Americans who do perfectly fine (look at Obama for fecks sake). However any attempt to discuss this is seen as racist. Stifling debate for the sake of being PC does no one any good.

Each influx of ethnicities brings its own circumstances and history to the party. Historically the advent of African Americans is a very different story than the advent of the Asian American, and I think its probably more rooted in this than sociologists realise today. Historical, innate, and institutionalised racism are not going to be overcome that easily, and the culture of insidious oppression they create permeates lives in a way we'd find difficult to understand or relate to.

I am not talking specifically about black communities here, but about impoverished and marginalised communities generally.

I don't know what the answers are, but I would think the approaches should be very long term. Think generations. More opportunites to become Obama's instead of inmates, or astronauts instead of assh-les, or whatever, come from programs individually tailored to a communities specific needs, and they cost money. Big money. The question in terms of the health of society as a whole has got to be: Can we afford, in the long term, NOT to spend that money?

Education doesn't come cheap, training doesn't come cheap, promoting stable family units with a work ethic, appreciation for education, a drive to succeed, and a sense of worth and value, don't come cheap.

And they'll all have failures that people with a racist or elitist agenda will point to as proof that they simply aren't worth the money.

It HAS to be talked about, but as usual, there's going to be a huge section of the population who will only hear that suits them.

Madam_X

Thanks button isn't enough. Superb post Giselle. Thanks for articulating so well what I was trying to say.

Btw... you're such a eugenics supporter. :mad:




:pac:

Amalgam

There's issues that are present within ethnic groups in the UK and elsewhere, that are being touched on in the media, courtesy of the, 'Arab Spring', one of them being gender jealousy/envy. Women answering the call of a very dynamic labour market and cutting through centuries of tradition and religious gospel. A red rag to men that, through social/religious conditioning, can't see past the end of their own nose..

Interesting that the attacker used the word, 'intimidated', when talking of the victim. That's quite telling.

Giselle

Amalgam wrote: »

There's issues that are present within ethnic groups in the UK and elsewhere, that are being touched on in the media, courtesy of the, 'Arab Spring', one of them being gender jealousy/envy. Women answering the call of a very dynamic labour market and cutting through centuries of tradition and religious gospel. A red rag to men that, through social/religious conditioning, can't see past the end of their own nose..

Interesting that the attacker used the word, 'intimidated', when talking of the victim. That's quite telling.

I don't think the response to the threat of removal of specific gender privileges can be called 'gender envy'.

We have no idea why the attacker used the term 'intimidated'. Its quite possible its a lie, a ruse or a smokescreen. Unless the guy is ill, I don't see how a large man in is thirties can be intimidated by a slight girl in her teens.

old hippy

green123 wrote: »

and we dont want anymore ghettos.

why do you want to introduce more problems to ireland ?

So, automatically you presume newcomers to Ireland will produce ghettos.

Interesting. The rest of the world is a ghetto and therefore if any of it gets into my backyard, there goes the neighborhood.

On my street, there are Asians, Africans, West Indians, Central Europeans, Eastern Europeans, French, American, East Asians, Irish etc etc. And it is not a ghetto.

I want to see an end to problems in Ireland and here in London. In my opinion, the problems come from people like you. Not newcomers.

old hippy

woodoo wrote: »

So do you think we should be allowing anyone at all that wants to come here come, no limits just open the doors.

I don't want to end up with Ireland like parts of England. I'd like the people that do come here to integrate, you are obviously one that has and i welcome here. I don't want vast areas of cities taken over by immigrants from places like Pakistan where they have no interest in the host culture. Where they would gladly bring in sharia law if they could. What is in that for the English or the Irish in our case?

I've integrated into London, just fine. I've lived here for 13 years

Nobody's bringing Sharia to Ireland or the UK, this has been discussed plenty of times on boards.

What vast areas of London have been "taken over", btw?

Gyalist

woodoo wrote: »

I don't want to end up with Ireland like parts of England. I'd like the people that do come here to integrate, you are obviously one that has and i welcome here. I don't want vast areas of cities taken over by immigrants from places like Pakistan where they have no interest in the host culture. Where they would gladly bring in sharia law if they could. What is in that for the English or the Irish in our case?

LOL. I am an immigrant who has lived in Ireland since 1986 and I have absolutely no intention of either integrating or assimilating.

keithclancy

woodoo wrote: »

So do you think we should be allowing anyone at all that wants to come here come, no limits just open the doors.

I don't want to end up with Ireland like parts of England. I'd like the people that do come here to integrate, you are obviously one that has and i welcome here. I don't want vast areas of cities taken over by immigrants from places like Pakistan where they have no interest in the host culture. Where they would gladly bring in sharia law if they could. What is in that for the English or the Irish in our case?

Its a bit rich to claim you want everyone to 'integrate' and control who comes to the country to live when theres so many Irish people living outside of Ireland:
http://www.globalirish.ie/issues/how-many-irish-people-live-abroad-an-ean-factsheet/

The crappy areas you're talking about are a result of low income housing all being in the same area, its not as simple as saying 'all dem foreigners' are creating a problem.

In fact I would say that the Irish in General are pretty bad at Integrating in foreign countries, with the majority of us hanging out in expat groups and Irish Pubs.

jugger0

pontia wrote: »

why are crime rates so high from blacks ? 80% of prisoners in us are black

High testosterone with a low IQ

mod:
banned.

dr.bollocko

^^^

Banned.

old hippy

old hippy wrote: »

I've integrated into London, just fine. I've lived here for 13 years

Nobody's bringing Sharia to Ireland or the UK, this has been discussed plenty of times on boards.

What vast areas of London have been "taken over", btw?

Plenty of areas of London have become so Muslim that a white person walking down the street gets dirty looks (and sometimes worse). My area was quite mixed and middle class, probably only about 50% Muslim and I experienced abuse from young males for wearing short skirts (with leggings!)/heels going out because they didn't deem it appropriate. I got comments and looks from a few women as well. I would be very tolerant and have always had Muslim friends, but I really don't appreciate being told how to dress in my own country. I respect their right to wear their hijabs, why can't they respect my beliefs and culture?

There are plenty of areas in East London which are now close to being 100% Muslim, where all the shops and businesses have Arabic writing on them and you never hear a word of English spoken. If that's not 'taking over', then what is? I certainly don't feel very welcome there and it definitely doesn't feel like England. I'm certainly not a hysterical Daily Mail reader. I know that the vast majority of Muslims in London are moderate and live and let live but there is a serious problem with a minority of people who think they can tell everyone else what to do. My best friend in London is a Muslim guy and he hates that so many people in his community have zero interest in actually living in Britain (as in living outside their bubble), look down on most British people but are more than happy to take the handouts from the government. He is always saying they should leave if they want nothing to do with England. He's managed to integrate and considers himself 100% British despite being a strict Muslim whose parents were not born in Britain.

HavingCrack

keithclancy wrote: »

Its a bit rich to claim you want everyone to 'integrate' and control who comes to the country to live when theres so many Irish people living outside of Ireland:
http://www.globalirish.ie/issues/how-many-irish-people-live-abroad-an-ean-factsheet/

The crappy areas you're talking about are a result of low income housing all being in the same area, its not as simple as saying 'all dem foreigners' are creating a problem.

In fact I would say that the Irish in General are pretty bad at Integrating in foreign countries, with the majority of us hanging out in expat groups and Irish Pubs.

It's not as simple as saying 'all dem foreigners' but it's also not just the result of low income housing. A good example of this would be some Turkish and Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands who have made it quite clear that they don't want to abide by Dutch laws, ie the country they're living in. If they want to live in a place like Morocco or Turkey go live in Morcco or Turkey but don't expect Holland to change for you. There's been similar issues in Malmo in Sweden and in German cities. as far as I'm concerned it's up to you to make allowances for your new country not the other way around.

I would also agree that border controls and immigration limits are things that are very neccessary in the modern world.

As for Irish people integrating in foreign countries, I don't think that's fair, look how many American, Canadian or British people have Irish ancestry or how successful Irish people have been in those countries. I think when people talk about Irish integration they're referring to those on the working holiday type lark. People who are permanent immigrants generally don't behave like this.

keithclancy

HavingCrack wrote: »

It's not as simple as saying 'all dem foreigners' but it's also not just the result of low income housing. A good example of this would be some Turkish and Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands who have made it quite clear that they don't want to abide by Dutch laws, ie the country they're living in. If they want to live in a place like Morocco or Turkey go live in Morcco or Turkey but don't expect Holland to change for you. There's been similar issues in Malmo in Sweden and in German cities. as far as I'm concerned it's up to you to make allowances for your new country not the other way around.

Well it has changed for them, they are not legally required to have health insurance, they can 'opt out' based on their religious beliefs:

http://www.cvz.nl/en/insurance/zvw/zvw.html

Exemption from the obligation to take out insurance

Two groups are exempt from the obligation to take out insurance:

conscientious objectors: people who do not want to take out insurance because of their religion or beliefs;

soldiers on active service.

Your example is terrible, you just have to look at the areas where turkish/morrocans live in the Hague, Oudemaanstraat, Zuiderpark, around Holland Spoor.

Its pretty much the Equivolent of the shítty council estates in Dublin and Cork.

old hippy

Brooks Helpful Beer wrote: »

Plenty of areas of London have become so Muslim that a white person walking down the street gets dirty looks (and sometimes worse). My area was quite mixed and middle class, probably only about 50% Muslim and I experienced abuse from young males for wearing short skirts (with leggings!)/heels going out because they didn't deem it appropriate. I got comments and looks from a few women as well. I would be very tolerant and have always had Muslim friends, but I really don't appreciate being told how to dress in my own country. I respect their right to wear their hijabs, why can't they respect my beliefs and culture?

There are plenty of areas in East London which are now close to being 100% Muslim, where all the shops and businesses have Arabic writing on them and you never hear a word of English spoken. If that's not 'taking over', then what is? I certainly don't feel very welcome there and it definitely doesn't feel like England. I'm certainly not a hysterical Daily Mail reader. I know that the vast majority of Muslims in London are moderate and live and let live but there is a serious problem with a minority of people who think they can tell everyone else what to do. My best friend in London is a Muslim guy and he hates that so many people in his community have zero interest in actually living in Britain (as in living outside their bubble), look down on most British people but are more than happy to take the handouts from the government. He is always saying they should leave if they want nothing to do with England. He's managed to integrate and considers himself 100% British despite being a strict Muslim whose parents were not born in Britain.

You said it. A minority of people. There's places back home if I walked around I'd get my head stove in and that's long before the areas became "taken over"...

Tolerance and respect is needed for all parts of the communities. I mean, there's a minority of whites who think London has been ethnically cleansed and that the indigenous aborginal Britons are being discriminated against but nobody pays attention to Nick Griffin and co anymore.

woodoo

Brooks Helpful Beer wrote: »

Plenty of areas of London have become so Muslim that a white person walking down the street gets dirty looks (and sometimes worse). My area was quite mixed and middle class, probably only about 50% Muslim and I experienced abuse from young males for wearing short skirts (with leggings!)/heels going out because they didn't deem it appropriate. I got comments and looks from a few women as well.

There are plenty of areas in East London which are now close to being 100% Muslim, where all the shops and businesses have Arabic writing on them and you never hear a word of English spoken. If that's not 'taking over', then what is? I certainly don't feel very welcome there and it definitely doesn't feel like England.

That is what i don't want and no amount of scorn, ridicule, browbeating or leftie nonsense will convince me otherwise. I don't want an Ireland like that. But we are being sleep walked into it.

Nodin

woodoo wrote: »

That is what i don't want and no amount of scorn, ridicule, browbeating or leftie nonsense will convince me otherwise. I don't want an Ireland like that. But we are being sleep walked into it.

...there's loads of muslims here.....?

old hippy

woodoo wrote: »

That is what i don't want and no amount of scorn, ridicule, browbeating or leftie nonsense will convince me otherwise. I don't want an Ireland like that. But we are being sleep walked into it.

Yeah? Well I don't want an Ireland like your myopic vision of scaremongering bobbins which plays to the lowest common denominator. And no amount of right wit, spittle flecked rhetoric will convince me otherwise.