Man City Vs Real Madrid KO 7.45 SS2

Darkglasses

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, at the beginning of the group stage you were definitely second favorites to progress. You were actually third or fourth favorites to win the competiton outright. Dortmund were out as far as 40/50-1.

Yes, but being realistic, as Gonzo said, they were and are a much stronger team.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'd like to ask the City fans on here if they think in all honesty that City can make a mark on the Champions League under Mancini.

If the answer is yes, how long will this take and what have they been missing up to now?

cgpg5

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, at the beginning of the group stage you were definitely second favorites to progress. You were actually third or fourth favories to win the competiton outright. Dortmund were out as far as 40/50-1.

I think Dortmund have really exceeded expectations though. Grand City were second favourites originally, but Dortmund have shown themselves to be a super outfit in Europe. They'll take some stopping

There's no shame in not qualifying imo. The real disappointment is the Ajax away game and first half in the home game. As the panel said you need to at least beat the perceived worst team in the group on both occasions

cgpg5

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like to ask the City fans on here if they think in all honesty that City can make a mark on the Champions League under Mancini.

If the answer is yes, how long will this take and what have they been missing up to now?

Not a City fan but they've been dealt two very tough groups.

They would have cantered through United and Arsenal's groups

Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

Your very sensitive tonight . .

Some people do find it stupid asking a manager how they feel after going out of a huge tournament . . WTF can he say ?

I'm not sensitive at all! Obvious question will have an obvious answer but he still has to ask it

MD1990

Drumpot wrote: »

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/9225254/Sky-TV-reporter-Geoff-Shreeves-ruins-Branislav-Ivanovics-Champions-League-dream-You-will-not-play-in-final.html

Why dont you sit this one out champ . .

he asked how diaspointed he was so what
u then try to be funny but fail miserably

thegreengoblin

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

In fairness, I think it is one of the more accurate statements I've read in here. Being realistic, we we're third favourites in that group and we're finishing 3/4. How long has it taken any other team to establish themselves as a Champions League finalists?

When you cut through the nonesense of 'How much has the team cost' etc, why is they're such an expectation for City to walk over top European teams straight away.

What eagle eye was pointing out is that the majority of these type of comments are coming from non City fans, which is expected when bitter people decide to share their opinions on here.

City have established themselves in the EPL, undefeated at home since 2010, unbeaten so far this year, top of the table, and not to forget Champions. We'll be back next year, stronger and better. Only a matter of time before we make a mark on Europe. Nothing happens overnight.

Not with Mancini in charge you won't. He's been exposed at the highest level.

Blatter

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

Why? Because people hadn't bothered to follow Dortmund before this year? Dortmund were the better European team at the start of this campaign, albeit the expectation of City's ability wasn't far off. BUt anyone who would consider City to automatically be better than Dortmund by virtue of winning the English title is a little misguided.

How exactly?

I agree that Dortmund price was to long with the bookies but there's no way they weren't correct with having City ahead of them.

City's wage bill is more than double Dortmund's, they have a far superior squad of players.

I love Dortmund, rate their first 11 very highly and think they're fantastic to watch but City were rightly ahead of them with the bookies.

Drumpot

cgpg5 wrote: »

I think Dortmund have really exceeded expectations though. Grand City were second favourites originally, but Dortmund have shown themselves to be a super outfit in Europe. They'll take some stopping

There's no shame in not qualifying imo. The real disappointment is the Ajax away game and first half in the home game. As the panel said you need to at least beat the perceived worst team in the group on both occasions

But the thing is if they had beaten Ajax twice they would still be playing in the last game with a chance of qualifying (theyd be level on points with Madrid) . .

Drumpot

MD1990 wrote: »

he asked how diaspointed he was so what
u then try to be funny but fail miserably

Nah . . . . Just not an awful lot of happy people on this thread . .

DoctorGonzo08

thegreengoblin wrote: »

Not with Mancini in charge you won't. He's been exposed at the highest level.

??? So Mancini is suppose to canter through the two groups he has been in? That's either a naive estimation or you just have a problem with City/Mancini.

I don't know of any other manager that could have achieved what Mancini has. He has a done an amazing job, and long may it last.

Darkglasses

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like to ask the City fans on here if they think in all honesty that City can make a mark on the Champions League under Mancini.

If the answer is yes, how long will this take and what have they been missing up to now?

It's a good question! Honestly, I think he can do it next year. I don't like making excuses, but our draw for this group was horrific. In my opinion, we are never as good as Real or Borussia, probably about as good as Ajax. Real and Borussia are definitely in the top 4 teams in the whole tournament IMO. And I don't blame these shortcomings on Mancini. Looking through the other groups, I believe we would have qualified from roughly half of them with the current team. We would certainly have made it out of United's group.

Given 4-5 years, I think we can make it to the semis/final. Time is all that's missing in my opinion, a more settled team. Which will definitely come in the near future, even under the dreaded Mancini.

Just my opinion.

SEPT 23 1989

cgpg5 wrote: »

Not a City fan but they've been dealt two very tough groups.

They would have cantered through United and Arsenal's groups

Easily,that's the annoying thing

Drumpot

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm not sensitive at all! Obvious question will have an obvious answer but he still has to ask it

He doesnt have to ask it . . Its a stupid question and never gives a decent answer from any manager. Its just looking to force managers to say something that will get them into trouble. Then the football world reacts in hyperbole horror as a manager shows pure raw emotion of disgust after being knocked out of a huge tournament. Personally I think managers shouldnt have to do match interviews straight after games, particularly if they are going to be asked stupid questions like "How does it feel losing ?" , "Does it make you feel sad ?" . . "Are you going to cry?" . .

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

How exactly?

I agree that Dortmund price was to long with the bookies but there's no way they weren't correct with having City ahead of them.

City's wage bill is more than double Dortmund's, they have a far superior squad of players.

I love Dortmund, rate their first 11 very highly and think they're fantastic to watch but City were rightly ahead of them with the bookies.

What has the wage bill got to do with it? Of course City have a higher wage bill, they had to spend more to attract players, to achieve what they have done, so it will be inflated.

Does considering City to be third best in Europe without ever having achieved anything in Europe sound like realistic argument? Dortmund are past winners and have been improving solidly for the past 4/5 years.

BorneTobyWilde

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

??? So Mancini is suppose to canter through the two groups he has been in? That's either a naive estimation or you just have a problem with City/Mancini.

I don't know of any other manager that could have achieved what Mancini has. He has a done an amazing job, and long may it last.

How many systems did he play in this one game tonight
Doubt you could count them all on one hand

He's a bit silly and quick to jump to a reaction
Tactically not very shrewd ,Not enough for Europe
Can improve though, Needs to learn

cgpg5

Drumpot wrote: »

But the thing is if they had beaten Ajax twice they would still be playing in the last game with a chance of qualifying (theyd be level on points with Madrid) . .

Well to be fair they were robbed in the home game (regardless of conceding 2 stupid goals)

Who knows though. Real wouldn't have been so casual in the second half today if that was the case. They'll beat Ajax the next day anyway, and it's very unlikely City would get a win at Dortmund either way (even though they've qualified)

thegreengoblin

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

??? So Mancini is suppose to canter through the two groups he has been in? That's either a naive estimation or you just have a problem with City/Mancini.

I don't know of any other manager that could have achieved what Mancini has. He has a done an amazing job, and long may it last.

I never said he was supposed to canter through through. Overseeing a win in the group this season might have been one expectation though.

Blatter

Darkglasses wrote: »

Yes, but being realistic, as Gonzo said, they were and are a much stronger team.

Nope, you can't come to conclusions like that after only 5 games. Dortmund are already 9 points off the pace in the German League (which is a fantastic league but IS inferior to the PL) yet City are top of the PL and are unbeaten.

I could draw the conclusion that City are a better team from that. But I won't, as the sample size is too small. I draw my conclusions that City are a stronger team by looking at their players and their squad in comparison to Dortmund's. I just think they're stronger overall.

cgpg5 wrote: »

I think Dortmund have really exceeded expectations though. Grand City were second favourites originally, but Dortmund have shown themselves to be a super outfit in Europe. They'll take some stopping

There's no shame in not qualifying imo. The real disappointment is the Ajax away game and first half in the home game. As the panel said you need to at least beat the perceived worst team in the group on both occasions

I agree, just don't like reading this ''we were third favorites to get out of the group at the start'' nonsense. They definitely weren't.

Drumpot

Darkglasses wrote: »

It's a good question! Honestly, I think he can do it next year. I don't like making excuses, but our draw for this group was horrific. In my opinion, we are never as good as Real or Borussia, probably about as good as Ajax. Real and Borussia are definitely in the top 4 teams in the whole tournament IMO. And I don't blame these shortcomings on Mancini. Looking through the other groups, I believe we would have qualified from roughly half of them with the current team. We would certainly have made it out of United's group.

Given 4-5 years, I think we can make it to the semis/final. Time is all that's missing in my opinion, a more settled team. Which will definitely come in the near future, even under the dreaded Mancini.

Just my opinion.

Whats funny is that in the first half of the game it reminded me an awful lot like Uniteds early year in the CL when we looked so tactically naieve and out of our depth against half decent teams . . It can come with experience, but I think Mancinis decisions and tactics are hard to fathom and that to a large degree he has been at fault for Citys exit as anybody else . .

Xavi6

Drumpot wrote: »

He doesnt have to ask it . . Its a stupid question and never gives a decent answer from any manager. Its just looking to force managers to say something that will get them into trouble. Then the football world reacts in hyperbole horror as a manager shows pure raw emotion of disgust after being knocked out of a huge tournament. Personally I think managers shouldnt have to do match interviews straight after games, particularly if they are going to be asked stupid questions like "How does it feel losing ?" , "Does it make you feel sad ?" . . "Are you going to cry?" . .

Welcome to the world of football journalism, that's how it rolls so Shreeves was just doing his job.

el dude

Turtyturd wrote: »

Balotelli a 'clown' now as well...he is getting them all in tonight.

Ballotelli would take that as a compliment to be fair.

BorneTobyWilde

champions league aaaaaaaaa you can do some mistakes like this nooooo
first half they score,aaaaaaaaa we change aaaaaaaaa didn't play very well

MD1990

Drumpot wrote: »

Nah . . . . Just not an awful lot of happy people on this thread . .

its not that though
Shreeves asked a normal question
i don't care about City going out so im not unhappy just think your reaction to Shreeves question was very strange

Drumpot

cgpg5 wrote: »

Well to be fair they were robbed in the home game (regardless of conceding 2 stupid goals)

Who knows though. Real wouldn't have been so casual in the second half today if that was the case. They'll beat Ajax the next day anyway, and it's very unlikely City would get a win at Dortmund either way (even though they've qualified)

True . .

That said, I think winning breeds confidence and if you think about how close they were in Madrid, it seems like their confidence has dropped since then.

Uniteds best performance (for me) so far in the CL was last nights defeat . . I think it was as much because they had qualified as it was that the pressure was off them. If Madrid were in Citys position tonight, even with the same teams on show the pressure would be on them. Happened to United in a piss easy group last year, in the latter games the pressure was too much for us to even beat poor teams . .

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

Nope, you can't come to conclusions like that after only 5 games. Dortmund are already 9 points off the pace in the German League (which is a fantastic league but IS inferior to the PL) yet City are top of the PL and are unbeaten.

I could draw the conclusion that City are a better team from that. But I won't, as the sample size is too small. I draw my conclusions that City are a stronger team by looking at their players and their squad in comparison to Dortmund's. I just think they're stronger overall.



I agree, just don't like reading this ''we were third favorites to get out of the group at the start'' nonsense. They definitely weren't.

Don't get me wrong, my statement wasn't to sidewind the fact we didn't qualify but it was a stance I had from the start. IMHO we were third fav in that group. Dortmund performed a hell of alot better than expected, and City didn't play as well as they should have, but these are all things they have to learn.

Drumpot

Xavi6 wrote: »

Welcome to the world of football journalism, that's how it rolls so Shreeves was just doing his job.

Maybe . . It still annoys me though . .

DoctorGonzo08

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

How many systems did he play in this one game tonight
Doubt you could count them all on one hand

He's a bit silly and quick to jump to a reaction
Tactically not very shrewd ,Not enough for Europe
Can improve though, Needs to learn

To pick on his systems, which wasn't that extravigant, in a must win game is a little harsh. I'm not saying Mancini is untouchable but he has shown constant progression with the team, and i agree as long as he is learning and progressing the team, I have every faith in him.

Blatter

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

What has the wage bill got to do with it? Of course City have a higher wage bill, they had to spend more to attract players, to achieve what they have done, so it will be inflated.

It doesn't prove anything definitely, but the size of wage bills generally correlates to the quality of a squad. If your wage bill is more than DOUBLE that of another side, it's safe enough to assume the squad is superior.

Does considering City to be third best in Europe without ever having achieved anything in Europe sound like realistic argument?

Prices aren't generated due to what a team has done in the past, they are based around the current strength of the squad. City have one of the strongest squads in the world, maybe not the 3rd strongest but certainly not lower than 5th imo.

Dortmund are past winners and have been improving solidly for the past 4/5 years.

How is this relevant? How many of their current payers were a part of this?

BorneTobyWilde

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

To pick on his systems, which wasn't that extravigant, in a must win game is a little harsh. I'm not saying Mancini is untouchable but he has shown constant progression with the team, and i agree as long as he is learning and progressing the team, I have every faith in him.

All their games in Europe were so open, exciting games
But that's not European football
Its more tactical more reserved mostly
Of course exceptions to that rule
But this team never played in champions league up to last year
So a cautious approach was called for in my opinion,

They can score, So why be so open, Clean sheet a great asset in Champions League

DoctorGonzo08

Blatter wrote: »

It doesn't prove anything definitely, but the size of wage bills generally correlates to the quality of a squad. If your wage bill is more than DOUBLE that of another side, it's safe enough to assume the squad is superior.



Prices aren't generated due to what a team has done in the past, they are based around the current strength of the squad. City have one of the strongest squads in the world, maybe not the 3rd strongest but certainly not lower than 5th imo.



How is this relevant? How many of their current payers were a part of this?

I'll take your last point, but I think you are glossing over the expectations for City to arrive into the CL and are expected to reach Quarters, Semi, Finals? Anything other than winning it would be met with critricism which I consider unrealistic. How long did it take Utd to make an impact? And they we're one of the financial heavyweights at the time.

It is difficult to compare City to Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea as the expectation is that the Champions should progress. Look at the past CL entrants and their legacy? Newcastle, Leeds, Totenham? How did they fair? Certainly not 3 consecutive appearances?

Unrealistic expectations are the best way to have a go at a team that have done well.

DoctorGonzo08

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

All their games in Europe were so open, exciting games
But that's not European football
Its more tactical more reserved mostly
Of course exceptions to that rule
But this team never played in champions league up to last year
So a cautious approach was called for in my opinion,

They can score, So why be so open, Clean sheet a great asset in Champions League

That was the approach last year, and it didn't work. It's all about finding the right balance, as City had to do in the premiership.

nlgbbbblth

Darkglasses wrote: »

I don't even care to answer your claim that "even if we qualify for the CL again next season we'll still get horsed." to be quite honest.

But seriously Jelle1880, if you had a choice between a solid run for a second PL in a row (remember, we're top and unbeaten) and a pretty random chance at the EL, which would you want?

As a City fan since 1977 I say both.

There's no benefit in coming bottom of their group.

I hope they overtake Ajax and do their utmost to win the UEFA CUP.

cgpg5

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

As a City fan since 1977 I say both.

There's no benefit in coming bottom of their group.

I hope they overtake Ajax and do their utmost to win the UEFA CUP.

I dunno if I were City I wouldn't want the distraction of Europa League. It's all about winning the league from here

Big game Sunday. Am I correct in saying Chelsea broke City's unbeaten record last season, at the bridge? I think City will beat them this time though tbh

nlgbbbblth

I don't see other tournaments (i.e. EL, FA Cup, League Cup) as distractions. They're silverware. The club won the League Cup in 1976 and finished as league runners-up a year later. And then nothing until 2011.

Personally I think they need to treat each competition seriously. I know it's easier said than done.

cgpg5

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

I don't see other tournaments (i.e. EL, FA Cup, League Cup) as distractions. They're silverware. The club won the League Cup in 1976 and finished as league runners-up a year later. And then nothing until 2011.

Personally I think they need to treat each competition seriously. I know it's easier said than done.

I might be a tad off with the circumstances but I could have sworn a bad run in the Europa last season correlated with a drop in form in the PL. Round January/Feb.

Might have been unrelated, but in this day and age the less fixture congestion the better imo

Neeson

Here's (George) Michael Owen