Rafa New Chelsea Manager . .

Sgt Pepper 64

rarnes1 wrote: »

You writing him off already after 1 game ? A draw against the Champions.

Were you one of the ones holding up a banner today? :-)

I'll say here and now we wont win the league or the fa cup and he will gone in summer
We are already out of the CL baring some minor miracle and even if we progress, he wont win that.
Oh and the world club championship is a waste of time

It doesnt really matter if we get behind him or not, like RDM, he simply doesnt have the tools to do the job.
All great sides have a great striker and if we do go mad in Jan (and looked what happended last time - Torres and Luiz) we will be too far behind.
Fergie knows a thing or 2 about titles, and thats why he went after RVP
We dont stand a chance with Torres\Danny, compared with the Utd\City strike forces and thats not being negative - just realistic.
Chelsea over loaded with No10's and they just cant play together against top sides or fit any proper formation without taking away some of their effectiveness.
And thats the problem with us hiring and firing - no long term plan, no manager to plan 2/3 seasons ahead - just buy good players and hope the manager can fit them in somehow.
All our managers have been able to fall back on the guts of Raneris and Mourinhos squad, but that is coming to the end and the new guys arent anywhere near their level

Sgt Pepper 64

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

I'll say here and now we wont win the league or the fa cup and he will gone in summer
We are already out of the CL baring some minor miracle and even if we progress, he wont win that.
Oh and the world club championship is a waste of time

It doesnt really matter if we get behind him or not, like RDM, he simply doesnt have the tools to do the job.
All great sides have a great striker and if we do go mad in Jan (and looked what happended last time - Torres and Luiz) we will be too far behind.
Fergie knows a thing or 2 about titles, and thats why he went after RVP
We dont stand a chance with Torres\Danny, compared with the Utd\City strike forces and thats not being negative - just realistic.
Chelsea over loaded with No10's and they just cant play together against top sides or fit any proper formation without taking away some of their effectiveness.
And thats the problem with us hiring and firing - no long term plan, no manager to plan 2/3 seasons ahead - just buy good players and hope the manager can fit them in somehow.
All our managers have been able to fall back on the guts of Raneris and Mourinhos squad, but that is coming to the end and the new guys arent anywhere near their level

Chelsea will not win the league with that team anyway.

Cl is gone as you say so it's 3rd place at best imo and possibly an FA cup run.

The manager sacked could have done the same but hey that's not Rafas fault.

jesus_thats_gre

niallo27 wrote: »

`
They loved Jose and his football was a lot more negative than Rafa's.

Rafa and Jose set their teams up in a virtually identical manner in my opinion. They will grow to life Rafa I reckon.

I think that Chelsea would have dominated world football for the past 8 years if they didn't sack Jose. I think that it is highly probably that Chelsea will win the league under Rafa if he gets even a modicum of support. If they keep Rafa in the medium to long term, I think that he will have them entering the CL each season as one of the favourites and they will easily be competing with Real and Barca.

Either way, one thing that I think we will see happening is Chelsea getting a lot more clean sheets and winning games 1 or 2 nil again - back to the Jose years. If this does happen, I can see City and United making some small tactical changes so that they start conceding less goals again.

The number of goals that the top clubs are conceding, the lack of clean sheets and the number of surprise results have been out of the control in last few months. IIRC, Chelsea conceded 15 goals in once of their title winning seasons - back in 2005-06 IIRC. They have conceded 13 goals already.

jesus_thats_gre

rarnes1 wrote: »

Chelsea will not win the league with that team anyway.

Do you think so? I think that there is every chance that they will win the league - strikers being the only real concern.

citytillidie

Eli Manning wrote: »

They are booing Benitez because they know that the free style of Chelsea is going to descend into a team that isn't going to be all that attractive as it was.

Also he was very poor at Inter.

You do know when he had Liverpool firing in all cylinders in 2008-09 season Liverpool scored 119 goals in all comps

Gringo180

Baffling to hear some people say Benitez isnt a top manager, this is a man who mastermided a Champions Lge win with the likes of Djimi Troare, Harry Kewell and Luis Garcia in his team. He is a top top manager that Valencia team he assembled was top class

Hulk Hands

rossie1977 wrote: »

a manager who has won the uefa cup, 2 la liga titles with a team not named barca/real, a champions league, another final is not good enough for chelsea, i have heard it all now

Well it's interesting when you look at the managers Roman has brought in. You have Mourinho who has obvious talents. You also had AVB, who before he came to Chelsea looked an utter sensation as a manager, winning a treble in his first season while remaining undefeated. The potential was ridiculous. You have Ancellotti who had 4 Seria A and 2 Champions Leagues, and Scolari who won a World Cup when Brazilian football was apparently in disarray, and got Portugal to a Euro 2004 final and WC semi final.

Benitez in comparison obviously had the 2 excellent La Liga's. He then won a Champions league (with a squad Houllier built), but won little else during his 6 years at Liverpool and left the team in a worse position than he found them (Ownership a big issue there admittedly). Champions league finalist aswell. He had the obvious disaster at Inter then.

So while you scoff at the suggestion that Benitez is not good enough for Chelsea, he's actually has a less impressive resume than those who preceded him had when they took the Chelsea job. Couple that with his style of play, what he has said about the Chelsea fans in the past, the fact he used to manage a rival etc, and you can understand why the Chelsea fans are upset.

Cienciano

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Its a common misconception that if or when Roman gets bored, he will just pack up and go, leaving Chelsea with a pile of debts and bust.
Theres no way that would happen, Chelsea would have an exit strategy that would enable it to continue, abit a lot more in the real world.
Sponsership is at an all time high and we have just made a profit.
Chelsea are constantly searching for ways to be weaned off Romans cash, such as a new stadium\increased capacity
And thats assuming that all the anti chelseaites are right and he does get bored. Theres no sign of that after this many years, and sacking RDM was another indication that he wants more and more success
And the fans are sending a message to Roman that are not happy with his choice
Of course its a pact with the devil, but he's our devil, and I'd much rather our position than any other team, save Man City.
Utd - a cash cow for americans
Arsenal - a barca\city\utd feeder club whos lack of ambition means the bankers are happy but the trophy cabinet is empty
Liverpool - following Arsenals example

Just to put this "profit" into perspective. It was a profit of £1.4m for the year from the end of June. But it doesn't include the £32m spent on Hazard, the £25m on Oscar and the £10m on Moses. And before this "profit" of just over a million quid, total losses from Abramovich's chelsea was €630.

PhlegmyMoses

I think there's a middle ground with Benitez. He's not the infallible deity that some of his more hardcore supporters would have you believe. He also isn't the bumbling fact-mumbler who lost the plot in '09 as some his detractors try to portray.

He is a good manager, probably verging on very good, who is an excellent tactician and fastidious planner but lacks some fundamental skills, like man-management, relative to other top managers.

A couple of fatal flaws mean that he will never get to where he believes he is at but at the same time, he is the best manager Chelsea could have hoped for given the circumstances - certainly better than RDM, who I had very little sympathy for.

Chucky the tree

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

I think there's a middle ground with Benitez. He's not the infallible deity that some of his more hardcore supporters would have you believe. He also isn't the bumbling fact-mumbler who lost the plot in '09 as some his detractors try to portray.

He is a good manager, probably verging on very good, who is an excellent tactician and fastidious planner but lacks some fundamental skills, like man-management, relative to other top managers.

A couple of fatal flaws mean that he will never get to where he believes he is at but at the same time, he is the best manager Chelsea could have hoped for given the circumstances - certainly better than RDM, who I had very little sympathy for.

Honestly don't think I've ever seen any Liverpool claim him to be some GOAT manager either though. Even his biggest fans will say he has flaws and there are better managers out there. I think he gets talked about so fondly by a lot of Liverpool fans because of Rafa the person rather than Rafa the manager.

PhlegmyMoses

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Honestly don't think I've ever seen any Liverpool claim him to be some GOAT manager either though. Even his biggest fans will say he has flaws and there are better managers out there. I think he gets talked about so fondly by a lot of Liverpool fans because of Rafa the person rather than Rafa the manager.

Your last sentence is probably true. At the same time, I was using hyperbole. I don't think Liverpool fans think he was the GOAT. I do think that some have a hyper-inflated opinion of his abilities, strictly as a manager. He is a rung below the likes of Mourinho, Fergie and Wenger to name a few. No shame in that, for sure.

Kirby

Cienciano wrote: »

And before this "profit" of just over a million quid, total losses from Abramovich's chelsea was €630.

Champions league trophy for only 630 quid? Jaysus they have worked wonders!

Cienciano

Kirby wrote: »

Champions league trophy for only 630 quid? Jaysus they have worked wonders!

His yacht cost the same amount!

Red Crow

niallo27 wrote: »

`
They loved Jose and his football was a lot more negative than Rafa's.

Yeah but Jose is a master of his art. I'm not defending the boos because they are disgraceful.

Rekop dog

Rafa's an intriguing character, think there's some valid points in the arguments for and against him, some WTF moments in his career, the whole Barry/Alonso thing was a lowpoint in my view but at the same time he's achievments cannot be ignored and he definitely at least deserves his shot at it. But imo with a large proportion of fans so set against him from the get go(lol obviously) I find it difficult to see it being a particularly successful reign but wish him well anyway.

~Rebel~

Anyone else notice Peter Schmeichel peddling that fake Rafa quote from 2007 on MotD2? So annoying how these guys don't do even five minutes of research into this stuff before adding it to the repertoire of millions of viewers who will repeat it ad infinitum!

JPA

As a non Chelsea fan this sacking/appointment is still just so mind boggling.

If Roman wanted an interim manager, he already had the bloody perfect one in place!

By the time Benitez has the players playing how he wants he'll be gone and it starts again.

I don't think RDM ever had the pedigree to be given the job permanently but at least give him a chance when he is given a 2 year contract. Abramovich probably felt he had to reward him for what he achieved but I'd say he probably had huge doubts and it didn't take much for him to feel those doubts were justified.

He could even have hired Rafa in the summer, at least they'd still be in the CL.

jesus_thats_gre

jesus_thats_gre wrote: »

Do you think so? I think that there is every chance that they will win the league - strikers being the only real concern.

Quite a big concern though. Torres is finished. tHey'd need to sign a top striker in Jan and hope he immediately starts scoring.

Rafa's way of playing could also take a while to kick in.

I think they'll finish quite a way behind top 2 who imo have better squads and a more settled scenario particularly at Utd obviously.

intellectual dosser

rarnes1 wrote: »

Quite a big concern though. Torres is finished. tHey'd need to sign a top striker in Jan and hope he immediately starts scoring.

Rafa's way of playing could also take a while to kick in.

I think they'll finish quite a way behind top 2 who imo have better squads and a more settled scenario particularly at Utd obviously.

I wouldn't write off Torres just yet. I did only see the second half yesterday but I thought Torres looked more like scoring that either Aguero or Dzecko.

What amazed me was the long balls Chelsea pumped from the their back line up to the forwards when the backs were under no pressure at all. It was like something a bottom half team playing away from home would do. They were doing it at least 33% of the time - bread and butter stuff for Vincent Kompany to clear up - I wonder if this was instructed by Rafa?

Caveman1

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I wouldn't write off Torres just yet. I did only see the second half yesterday but I thought Torres looked more like scoring that either Aguero or Dzecko.

What amazed me was the long balls Chelsea pumped from the their back line up to the forwards when the backs were under no pressure at all. It was like something a bottom half team playing away from home would do. They were doing it at least 33% of the time - bread and butter stuff for Vincent Kompany to clear up - I wonder if this was instructed by Rafa?

This has been the way since RDM was there, its so frustrating watching Cech hoof it up to Torres, even if he does win the ball theres only oppisition players around him and he loses it again. I cant for the life of me understand why they do this ?

MUSEIST

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I wouldn't write off Torres just yet. I did only see the second half yesterday but I thought Torres looked more like scoring that either Aguero or Dzecko.

What amazed me was the long balls Chelsea pumped from the their back line up to the forwards when the backs were under no pressure at all. It was like something a bottom half team playing away from home would do. They were doing it at least 33% of the time - bread and butter stuff for Vincent Kompany to clear up - I wonder if this was instructed by Rafa?

I don't know if it was instructed by rafa (I highly doudt it) but we have been doing it a lot lately. Against juventus we didn't play with any strikers yet we still played long balls forward constantly, this made absolutely no sense to me as it just gave the ball back to the opposition and put us under pressure.

intellectual dosser

Caveman1 wrote: »

This has been the way since RDM was there, its so frustrating watching Cech hoof it up to Torres, even if he does win the ball theres only oppisition players around him and he loses it again. I cant for the life of me understand why they do this ?

....and then it reflects badly on Torres when he cant retain possession from a long ball with 2/3 defenders around him. I say give him a chance, we've seen speckles of his former self at the start of this season - I reckon he'll be rubbing it in our faces yet.

I'm not a Chelsea fan btw

Xavi6

intellectual dosser wrote: »

I wouldn't write off Torres just yet. I did only see the second half yesterday but I thought Torres looked more like scoring that either Aguero or Dzecko.

What amazed me was the long balls Chelsea pumped from the their back line up to the forwards when the backs were under no pressure at all. It was like something a bottom half team playing away from home would do. They were doing it at least 33% of the time - bread and butter stuff for Vincent Kompany to clear up - I wonder if this was instructed by Rafa?

Long ball attempts:

Luiz - 9 long / 31 total passes
Ivanovic - 5 / 31
Cole - 0 / 31
Azpilicueta - 5 / 49

So a total of 19 attempted long balls from 142, or 13.4%

Cech went long 12 times from 15 as well.

Stoke would be proud of those stats

intellectual dosser

Xavi6 wrote: »

Long ball attempts:

Luiz - 9 long / 31 total passes
Ivanovic - 5 / 31
Cole - 0 / 31
Azpilicueta - 5 / 49

So a total of 19 attempted long balls from 142, or 13.4%

Cech went long 12 times from 15 as well.

Any stats available to show how many of these were done while under duress (when its understandable) against how many were done when no MC players where challenging at all?

Cheers for the stats though.

Xavi6

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Any stats available to show how many of these were done while under duress (when its understandable) against how many were done when no MC players where challenging at all?

Cheers for the stats though.

Sadly not, but two of Luiz's were backpasses to Cech from around halfway so wouldn't be classed as 'hoofs'.

Caveman1

intellectual dosser wrote: »

....and then it reflects badly on Torres when he cant retain possession from a long ball with 2/3 defenders around him. I say give him a chance, we've seen speckles of his former self at the start of this season - I reckon he'll be rubbing it in our faces yet.

I'm not a Chelsea fan btw

I would love to share your optimism but unfortunately I think Torres best day are long gone, I wish I was wrong but I think he'll sold in Jan or in the Summer.

The reality is that Torres was a 1 goal every 2 game goalscorer, now he's a 1 in 5.

Melion

rarnes1 wrote: »

The reality is that Torres was a 1 goal every 2 game goalscorer, now he's a 1 in 5.

Much better than 1 in 2 with Liverpool thankfully

Melion

Melion wrote: »

Much better than 1 in 2 with Liverpool thankfully

Very true :-)

Melion

So, how have the opinions changed now?

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

So, how have the opinions changed now?

Yes. Benitez is a full blown God after that one match

looder

Rafa out!

Melion

cambo2008 wrote: »

Yes. Benitez is a full blown God after that one match

He cant possibly get any higher in my estimation.

Im genuinely curious to see how the Chelsea fans who booed him etc when he took the job now feel about him.

mike65

Arf! He's rotated the squad, perked up Torres, tweaked the tactics (always the bit that takes longest to show positive change) and is still one bad game away from getting boo'd I'd say.

Will I Amnt

Melion wrote: »

He cant possibly get any higher in my estimation.

Im genuinely curious to see how the Chelsea fans who booed him etc when he took the job now feel about him.

Might be a bit happier until they next drop points.

Xavi6

Rafa BenEIGHTez

Imagine the score if he wasn't so negative

tolosenc

Are Rafa Benitez and Chelsea done? I mean, it should have been more than 8...

FlawedGenius

Has the gringos playing great stuff if he wins League Cup he should keep job.

monkey9

He'll win them the League Cup, the Europa League and have them playing Champions League football next season.

Sgt Pepper 64

monkey9 wrote: »

He'll win them the League Cup, the Europa League and have them playing Champions League football next season.

And then get sacked

super_furry

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

And then get sacked

I wouldn't be so sure. I don't believe Chelsea will be able to attract Guardiola and if Mourinho decides against a comeback, who would Abramovic replace Benitez with?

Duck Soup

With the sickness of the current Barca manager (cancer op) isn't the most likely destination for Guardiola a return to Barca?

If Pep's off the market, if not him, then who? In that event, whatever progress Rafa can make in 2013 becomes very important. Abramovich never rated RDM, so even a CL trophy was a temporary respite. I think RA rates Rafa, so results and silverware could make a difference to a long-term contract.

GavRedKing

Honestly ive no problem with Rafa at all if its a long term option. We do need some stability and Rafa's influence, given time could become every better for the team.

I dont know if Pep will go to Barca, Luis Rnriqie could fall in or maybe even Cryuff but not sure if Pep will be back so soon.

Id love Jose back but again, its more down to him.

If Roman sacked RDM then Rafa will do very well to get a full time contract but he has my backing, as I said main thing is stability and some consistency.

super_furry

Tell you something that wouldn't surprise me - the Lampard contract situation to drag on into January before Benitez comes out and publicly starts putting pressure on him getting a new deal. It would be a very easy way to win over a lot of fans.

GavRedKing

super_furry wrote: »

Tell you something that wouldn't surprise me - the Lampard contract situation to drag on into January before Benitez comes out and publicly starts putting pressure on him getting a new deal. It would be a very easy way to win over a lot of fans.

It would get fans onside and one of the main players in the dressing room.

Lamps is a proper professional amd he dodged the questions by Shreeves fairly well today but I would like to see him get an extension until the end of 2014.

Mr.Nice Guy

Duck Soup wrote: »

With the sickness of the current Barca manager (cancer op) isn't the most likely destination for Guardiola a return to Barca?

If Pep's off the market, if not him, then who? In that event, whatever progress Rafa can make in 2013 becomes very important. Abramovich never rated RDM, so even a CL trophy was a temporary respite. I think RA rates Rafa, so results and silverware could make a difference to a long-term contract.

Barca are going to be managed by their assistant coach Jordi Roura. It's highly unlikely Guardiola would return under the circumstances.

I don't see why Guardiola would turn down the Chelsea job. He has a billionaire who will pay anything for his services and history shows if Abramovich sacks you then it doesn't taint your reputation - AVB is at Spurs, Ancelotti at PSG, Mourinho at Madrid, hell even Scolari has the Brazil job now. If Chelsea sacked Guardiola after a poor spell he would still get a top job elsewhere plus a massive pay packet. He has nothing to lose.

I doubt Benitez is seriously in Abramovich's thoughts. If he was then he wouldn't have named him so explicitly as an interim manager. More to the point I don't know why Benitez would want the job long-term after what he's been through. I think Benitez will wind up at Real Madrid after this season.

CSF

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Barca are going to be managed by their assistant coach Jordi Roura. It's highly unlikely Guardiola would return under the circumstances.

I don't see why Guardiola would turn down the Chelsea job. He has a billionaire who will pay anything for his services and history shows if Abramovich sacks you then it doesn't taint your reputation - AVB is at Spurs, Ancelotti at PSG, Mourinho at Madrid, hell even Scolari has the Brazil job now. If Chelsea sacked Guardiola after a poor spell he would still get a top job elsewhere plus a massive pay packet. He has nothing to lose.

I doubt Benitez is seriously in Abramovich's thoughts. If he was then he wouldn't have named him so explicitly as an interim manager. More to the point I don't know why Benitez would want the job long-term after what he's been through. I think Benitez will wind up at Real Madrid after this season.

I'd imagine the Chelsea job is the most stressful one there is. Don't forget why Guardiola quit Barca.

Ordinary man

If chelsea don't finish a minimum 3rd place, then benitez has to be judged a failure. He has a squad capable of playing like they did today and can add to it in january.

Mr.Nice Guy

CSF wrote: »

I'd imagine the Chelsea job is the most stressful one there is. Don't forget why Guardiola quit Barca.

I think with Barca though he cares deeply about the club. You sensed he took it personally when things didn't go as planned. If he was to go to Chelsea primarily for the financial aspect - and I think this would be the likelihood - then I think he could just take things in his stride.

Maybe I'm doing him a disservice by saying he should treat the job casually because he probably would take it extremely seriously if he took it. But imo he doesn't need to because I don't see him having much to lose by the move.