Is pep really all that?

gosplan

So been thinking of this now that everyone's saying that Rafa is only keeping the Chelsea job till They can get Pep.

I mean how good at this management stuff is Pep. He had the most talented midfield ever, epperhaps even without messi, and surely the revolution at Barca started when they reformed the academy years ago.

Could any manger that has the repect of Xavi, Busqeuts, Iniesta and Messi just allow them to express themselves on the pitch and get great results?

I mean, they're managing pretty well without him.

What say you?

He's hopeless

Eathrin

I don't think anyone can say, conclusively.
He did a fantastic job at Barcelona, but that may not be enough to go on.

MD1990

Barca were doing poor before Guardiola was manager
he improved Messi,Iniesta,Pique & Xavi hugely
& bought through players like Pedro & Busquets

gosplan

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's hopeless

No way, he won trophies?? :eek::eek:

Guess I was making some different point then

Mr.Nice Guy

Prior to taking the Barca job Guardiola spent several hours discussing football philosophy with Marco Bielsa. He bought into Bielsa's attacking philosophy which in turn brought incredible success to the club.

Bielsa has done well with his philosophy at other clubs (and Chile) and I think Guardiola could do well elsewhere also.

EdenHazard

To me it seems like far too much of a coincidence that a guy who captained the club and was a cult hero happens to be a managerial great. To me. he just was fortunate to be a cult icon and inherit the best side we've probably ever seen.

niallo27

gosplan wrote: »

No way, he won trophies?? :eek::eek:

Guess I was making some different point then

I think we will learn a lot from his next job, I think he still has a lot to prove and needs to succeed at a few different clubs until we can say he is a world class manager.

EdenHazard

He's done so much already and has such a high reputation that I think he'd have to do absolutely terrible to be ran down as a coach.

SantryRed

niallo27 wrote: »

I think we will learn a lot from his next job, I think he still has a lot to prove and needs to succeed at a few different clubs until we can say he is a world class manager.

What do you think of Ferguson so?

mike65

Barca have pretty much carried on without him, indeed in La Liga they've been doing even better though the fixture list may partly explain that.

kippy

Only way to know is to put him in charge of a club like QPR to be honest.

DoctorGonzo08

EdenHazard wrote: »

To me it seems like far too much of a coincidence that a guy who captained the club and was a cult hero happens to be a managerial great. To me. he just was fortunate to be a cult icon and inherit the best side we've probably ever seen.

This. Plain and simple. He inherited a great team and had little to do tbh. Not writing him off, but I don't think this spell is enough to prove his worth.

enfant terrible

kippy wrote: »

Only way to know is to put him in charge of a club like QPR to be honest.

Think resurrecting Arsenal would be a great proving ground for him.

EdenHazard

Football management is a weird thing. Its a business where a guy who hasn't won a trophy in 8 seasons is considered a great football manager(for developing youth players) while a guy who just won two trophies is sacked.

MisterAnarchy

He is an excellent man manager and motivator .
He did an excellent job at Barcelona but he inherited an excellent squad from Riijkaard.
His major success was to make Messi the fulcrum of the team ,playing him more centrally .He also decided to do this at the expense of Ronaldinho who was in decline.

His main weakness is the players he bought in at Barcelona .
He made some terrible buys,with the 15 million euro signing of Alexander Hleb, the 16.5 million euro signing of Martin Caceres, 8 million euros for Henrique, the absurd buy of Dmytro Chygrynskiy for 25 million euros and of course the ludicrous 69 million euros paid for Zlatan Ibrahimovic .

I dont think he would be a success at Chelsea.

Jayob10

There are so many perceived top managers that would not be able to cut it with little resources.

Take Mancini for example. He has found himself in 2 really big jobs where resources were plentiful (more so at City than at Inter).

They never really had to cut their cloth and slum it at a lower level, finding success to show they can do the best of both worlds.

Guardiola is an excellent coach by all accounts, but the players at his disposal (some of the greatest home grown players- actually some of the greatest players full stop) have definately defined his reign.

It would not shock me if he flopped badly when not inheriting the base of an already great side. It remains to be seen if he can build a side from scratch for instance.

His eye for a defender is exceptionally poor for instance. Can he tailor his approach for a different league.

As much as we criticise the quality, the EPL will be an entirely different animal for instance. 80-90% of La Liga sides play the same system, they come to play, they don't park the bus like lesser sides in England do.

Barca steamroll lesser teams the majority of the time when they come out and try to play them. How is he going to adapt to teams shutting up shop and playing for one point from the first minute?

It would be very interesting.

greendom

EdenHazard wrote: »

Football management is a weird thing. Its a business where a guy who hasn't won a trophy in 8 seasons is considered a great football manager(for developing youth players) while a guy who just won two trophies is sacked.

RDM had more money to spend this Summer than Wenger has had in his entire career at Arsenal (net spend wise of course) - not the right thread for this argument though

Liam O

DoctorGonzo08 wrote: »

This. Plain and simple. He inherited a great team and had little to do tbh. Not writing him off, but I don't think this spell is enough to prove his worth.

Little to do? Half the players were poison when he took over. He shipped them out and instilled a system and his philosophy on the team and ultimately changed the game of football. Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were made the central players by him and wouldn't be near as effective in any other system imo. Spain won the World Cup and Euros based on his system. I used to be a Barca fan when Ronaldinho was there, went over there as a Junior cert present and don't really like them any more, but they are a magnificent team and possibly the best ever (I just don't like the hyperbole that gets spewed by Sky about them while giving Madrid very little credit relatively and the other side of them with diving and all that crap)

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is an excellent man manager and motivator .
He did an excellent job at Barcelona but he inherited an excellent squad from Riijkaard.
His major success was to make Messi the fulcrum of the team ,playing him more centrally .He also decided to do this at the expense of Ronaldinho who was in decline.

His main weakness is the players he bought in at Barcelona .
He made some terrible buys,with the 15 million euro signing of Alexander Hleb, the 16.5 million euro signing of Martin Caceres, 8 million euros for Henrique, the absurd buy of Dmytro Chygrynskiy for 25 million euros and of course the ludicrous 69 million euros paid for Zlatan Ibrahimovic .

I dont think he would be a success at Chelsea.

Honestly a big reason they failed is that there were better players coming through the youths at Barca than those players and I'm sure the president forced a few signings on him to an extent.

scudzilla

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's hopeless

It's all lies

Add up all the trophy's in the outside, comes to 14

Add them all up in the middle (next to him) and it comes to 15

It's a fix i tells ya

niallo27

SantryRed wrote: »

What do you think of Ferguson so?

Well didn't he turn a nothing St mirren side into first division champions and broke the Celtic rangers dominance with Aberdeen and also won a European trophy with them, he also has rebuilt winning utd teams over and over again so you cant compare him to pep if thats what you are trying to do. I'm not Pep isn't world class, I just think he needs to prove himself fully yet, I think he knows that himself.

MisterAnarchy

Liam O wrote: »

Honestly a big reason they failed is that there were better players coming through the youths at Barca than those players and I'm sure the president forced a few signings on him to an extent.

Thats not true,he definitely wanted that big fellow Chygrynskiy who was absolutely useless,he kept on falling over.
He also wanted that other big fellow Ibrahimovich for his plan B to use against English teams .In the same deal he offloaded Samuel Eto ,a class act.
Ibrahimovich later threatened to "paste" Guardiola against the wall in a dressing room bust up.
Hleb was a failure too.

The only successful transfers he had were pretty much Villa and Fabregas but they were in the pipeline for years.
The jury is still out on Alexis Sanchez.

I like him as a manager though ,he is a very genuine guy and good for the game,always behaving with class.
I would hate to see him go to Chelsea ,its a rotten club.

Zebra3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_La_Liga#League_table

That's where Pep took Barca from.

Obviously a piece of cake. :rolleyes:

No work required whatsoever. :rolleyes:

Washington Irving

greendom wrote: »

RDM had more money to spend this Summer than Wenger has had in his entire career at Arsenal (net spend wise of course) - not the right thread for this argument though

It's always the right thread for a net spend argument! :pac:

Your Airbag

Is Pep really all that? Yes. People who say it all fell into place for him with the squad need to remember that Rijkaard had the same squad and they struggled. He is Barca's most successfull manger ever.

He won 14 titles in four years out of a possible 19 at his time in charge of the club.

Guardiola finished the calendar year 2009 with a record six trophies, the Spanish league, Copa del Rey, Champions League, Spanish Super Cup, European Super Cup, and Club World Cup, becoming the first manager in history to do so.

As for any suggestions that Barca only play one style that is embedded in the youth team and he blindly follows this blue print, well......

Guardiola is not a blind devotee. He does not simply write the same names on the team sheet and expect them to go out and do the same thing over and over again. He tinkers, revises and, like a watchful gardener, seems engaged in a constant battle against the entropic imperative.

The signing of Zlatan Ibrahimovic was intended to give them height, the option of going aerial if the usual tiki-taka didn't deliver and, when that didn't quite work, he began experimenting with the back three.

What is interesting about that is the way that it has changed the mindset. Barcelona often don't play a back three or a back four, but a hybrid – a back three and a half, perhaps. In the Clásico, that meant Sergio Busquets dropping deep to become an extremely deep-lying playmaker. Against Milan it meant Dani Alves being given freedom to charge down the right flank, operating most of the time as an attacking midfielder. When they use a back four it is with the knowledge of a back three; when they play a back three it is with the knowledge of a four. It is neither one thing nor the other, but both simultaneously, gloriously protean and so are all but impossible to counter

How many clubs employ the split centre backs or as others call it the Barca system?

5-1 and 10-4. These are the aggregate scores that Barcelona have notched over Manchester United and Arsenal during their last six meetings.

Here some players talk about his man managment

Xavi recalls the impact of the new manager’s arrival: “We were just back from winning the Euros with Spain and instantly I could sense a different atmosphere, new standards and much more emphasis on getting fit.



I recall saying to [Andres] Iniesta, ‘We’d better hop on this train or it’ll pass us by.’ "Standards had slipped. A kilo here or there didn’t matter. A few minutes late here or there didn’t matter. Now everything mattered. But Pep was right on top of everything like a hawk.”


Gerard Pique, who was brought in with the new guard, explains: “Pep doesn’t just give you orders, he also explains why. That makes you a better footballer because you learn the reasoning behind his instructions.”


Another piece of fine man-management came weeks later. After getting rid of divisive duo Ronaldinho and Deco, another tricky character, Samuel Eto’o was next for the exit. But after watching the first few weeks of training, the new boss changed his mind. “His attitude and work have won me over,” was Guardiola’s verdict.



Eto’o played brilliantly in that treble-winning season, scoring the goal which won the Champions League final after being warned that he would be allowed not one single blot on his copy-book. But that June, Eto’o was out, this time definitively, because of “a lack of feeling” between the two.

More on his tactics

Chaging to 3-4-3 is seen as one of his most important decisions

Many current managers and experts credit Barcelona's current playing style as "complete football."
But what is complete football and how did it begin?
Pep Guardiola's change in tactics are a huge reason why Barcelona are the most attractive to team watch in the world.
The previous formation of 4-3-3 proved incredibly successful during the Frank Rijkaard era with the likes of Ronaldinho and Samuel Eto'o thriving on quality service.
But times change and two successive La Liga failures in the 2006-07 and 2007-08 season prompted a change of manager and a change of outlook.
It takes a strong man to change something that is not technically broken, but that's exactly what Guardiola did in moving to a 3-4-3.
The focus is now on possession, combined with an aggressive pressing style both on and off the ball.
With renewed discipline and appreciation of full-backs such as Daniel Alves, the best team in the world have adapted the new system which has heralded the golden era of complete football at Camp Nou.

More on man mangament

He told players on his first day: “If you think I’m going to be soft on you, an easy touch, simply because I’m only 37 then you are wrong, you are out of luck. My pride and my ambition are enormous and let’s be clear – you’re going to work hard.”

New rules included coming in for breakfast before training and players being at home before midnight on any night when there was training the next day. On the training pitch, every player was told to be ready to work at bang on the announced hour – not tying laces, not trotting in a second late – or it’s a fine.



In training Guardiola’s known to be more of an interventionist than a dictator, stepping in to correct the odd detail or re-explain a concept. But if the hairdryer is needed, it’s a match for Fergie’s. “If he really ‘starts’ on one there is no stopping him,” admits Pique.


One anecdote which indicates the jolt his players got in the summer of 2008 was an early, fierce ticking-off from the new boss for Eric Abidal. The Frenchman told him: “There’s no need to speak to me like that. I’m a grown-up, a family man and I don’t need to be talked to like that.” He was reassured by President Laporta that “Pep is just that intense. It’s not personal.” From there to Abidal being given the captain’s armband in the 2011 Champions League Final and being asked to lift the trophy is a microcosm of the journey everyone, including Guardiola, has undertaken.

More on tactics and preperation

Busquets is one of those who has been promoted from B team success with Guardiola to Champions League and World Cup glory. “Pep is identical now to what he was like then,” he explains. “He studies endlessly, prepares in detail, draws the maximum from his players and makes us ready for the opposing team.

"It involves many hours watching videos but also a huge knowledge as a coach and experience as a player.” His assistant, Tito Vilanova, a childhood friend, says Guardiola’s X-factor is his “contagious self-confidence. His will to win is matched by a complete belief that he’ll win and an ability to explain how to do it.”

More on man managment, player promotion and more importantly player discipline such as dealing with strong characters such as Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Maybe seen as one of the small downsides to the Guardiola era to date, the fallout with Zlatan Ibrahimovic was actually a defining moment in the Spaniard's managerial career.
Brought in for a massive $94 million with a huge reputation, Ibrahimovic settled in very quickly after signing a five-year contract with the Catalan giants.
22 goals in 45 matches represented an excellent first season on the pitch, but behind the scenes, it was a completely differently story.
The Swedish international refused to buy into Guardiola's new hard-working team ethic and seldom strayed from the central forward line assigned to him.
That did not wash with Guardiola, and the relationship became further strained when Messi was moved from a wide-right position to the middle.
A series of comments followed in the media and despite his huge fee, the 30-year-old was given his marching orders, loaned out and then bought by AC Milan the following season.
It was a huge message to anyone connected with the club as to what Guardiola expected from his playing staff.
With the success they have had since his departure, it doesn't take a genius to work out who was in the right.



One of the first decisions Guardiola made when appointed head coach in 2008 was to promote Sergio Busquets and Pedro from the bench to the starting lineup. He believed both players were perfects fits for the team work ethic he so desperately wanted to introduce.
Both men reveled in their new roles as defensive midfielder and attacking winger, respectively, and have since become household names.

Tactics again

Moving Lionel Messi from a wide-right position into the centre has undoubtedly changed the fortunes of Barcelona and Messi himself.
Although plenty of people disagreed with the move at the time (including many of the playing squad), Guardiola knew different.
He saw the youngster's talents would be best used through the middle, but not as a typical No. 9 striker.
In fact, Messi is anything but a regular striker, constantly leaving his forward role to drop deeper—hence becoming a false No. 9.
Given a free role by Guardiola has allowed Messi to have a greater influence on the game as the opposition struggles to come to terms with the pace and movement of the young Argentinean.
Defenders continually struggle to play a high line against Messi, while midfielders try to pick him up but end up being outnumbered in other positions.
Make no mistake, Messi is as close to unplayable as it gets and at 24 years old, and there's plenty more to come.
As a result, Barcelona have become a far more dangerous side and have the trophies to prove it.
Messi has a lot to thank Guardiola for and it's clear that the two have huge mutual respect for each other.


Work rate
Barcelona under Guardiola guard possession when they have the ball like lives depend on it. But as significant is the sight of some of the best players in the world harrying and snapping at heels to get it back on the rare occasion they lose it.



It is a feature of their evolution under the manager, and a huge factor in their success, that Guardiola insists on players hunting in packs to close down opponents wherever and when ever possession is turned over, often leading to the ball being turned over again high up the field and in an attacking position from which to hurt opponents.
It requires fitness and dedication and that doesn't happen by accident. Previous Barcelona sides may have been decorated with class, but none has ever worked harder than Guardiola's.


Team spirit
"If Pep told me to throw myself off the second tier at the Camp Nou," said Dani Alves once, "I'd think: 'There must be something good down there.'"
It is hard to over-estimate the loyalty Guardiola inspired in his squad. An urbane, effortlessly charming man in public, he is a tirelessly dedicated football man away from the cameras, devoting his energy and intellect to the advancement of a club he holds dear.
His relationship with a club where he was a ballboy, youth team captain and European Cup winner as a player was central to team unity. He is Barcelona. And expected, or demanded, the same attention to the club's core values within his team. And received it many times over.

This video display his tactics in motion
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp1h00_fc-barcelona-tactics-under-pep-guardiola_sport

Sources used
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1132690-pep-guardiolas-5-most-defining-decisions-as-barcelona-coach#/articles/1132690-pep-guardiolas-5-most-defining-decisions-as-barcelona-coach/page/2
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/barcelona/9231167/Pep-Guardiola-five-ways-the-former-ballboy-turned-Barcelona-in-to-one-of-the-greatest-sides-of-all-time.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/apr/04/the-question-pep-guardiola-barcelona
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/fourfourtwoview/archive/2012/04/27/inside-the-mind-of-pep-guardiola.aspx

gosplan

Your Airbag wrote: »

Is Pep really all that? Yes. People who say it all fell into place for him with the squad need to remember that Rijkaard had the same squad and they struggled. He is Barca's most successfull manger ever.

He won 14 titles in four years out of a possible 19 at his time in charge of the club.

Guardiola finished the calendar year 2009 with a record six trophies, the Spanish league, Copa del Rey, Champions League, Spanish Super Cup, European Super Cup, and Club World Cup, becoming the first manager in history to do so.

As for any suggestions that Barca only play one style that is embedded in the youth team and he blindly follows this blue print, well......

How many clubs employ the split centre backs or as others call it the Barca system?

5-1 and 10-4. These are the aggregate scores that Barcelona have notched over Manchester United and Arsenal during their last six meetings.

Here some players talk about his man managment

More on his tactics

More on man mangament
More on tactics and preperation

More on man managment, player promotion and more importantly player discipline such as dealing with strong characters such as Zlatan Ibrahimovic

Tactics again
This video display his tactics in motion
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xp1h00_fc-barcelona-tactics-under-pep-guardiola_sport

Sources used
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1132690-pep-guardiolas-5-most-defining-decisions-as-barcelona-coach#/articles/1132690-pep-guardiolas-5-most-defining-decisions-as-barcelona-coach/page/2
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/barcelona/9231167/Pep-Guardiola-five-ways-the-former-ballboy-turned-Barcelona-in-to-one-of-the-greatest-sides-of-all-time.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2012/apr/04/the-question-pep-guardiola-barcelona
http://fourfourtwo.com/blogs/fourfourtwoview/archive/2012/04/27/inside-the-mind-of-pep-guardiola.aspx

In fairness that's just fawning over the guy.

I'm not sayng he isn't great, just looking for a discussion on it.

I don't think testemonials with players who won everything with him are evidence of anything and everyone can come up with a good quote.

MisterAnarchy

Changing to 3-4-3 is seen as one of his most important decisions
Many current managers and experts credit Barcelona's current playing style as "complete football."
But what is complete football and how did it begin?
Pep Guardiola's change in tactics are a huge reason why Barcelona are the most attractive to team watch in the world.
The previous formation of 4-3-3 proved incredibly successful during the Frank Rijkaard era with the likes of Ronaldinho and Samuel Eto'o thriving on quality service.
But times change and two successive La Liga failures in the 2006-07 and 2007-08 season prompted a change of manager and a change of outlook.
It takes a strong man to change something that is not technically broken, but that's exactly what Guardiola did in moving to a 3-4-3.

I dont think that is correct.
Guardiola played a 4 man defence for most of his time at Barcelona ,it was only in the later 18 months that he reverted to a 3 man defence and that was primarily due to injuries to his back four.
One could argue that the team was more effective with a four man defence ,I certainly think they played their best football with 4 at the back but with Alves pushing forward on the right.
Riijkaard played attacking fullbacks too.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Zebra3 wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_La_Liga#League_table

That's where Pep took Barca from.

Obviously a piece of cake. :rolleyes:

No work required whatsoever. :rolleyes:

You make it sound like he took them from mid-table obscurity, ffs, he took them from 3rd place. :pac:

AgileMyth

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He also wanted that other big fellow Ibrahimovich for his plan B to use against English teams .In the same deal he offloaded Samuel Eto ,a class act.

I'm sure the odd game against English teams were on the forefront of his mind when signing Ibrahimovich. After all the football world revolves around the EPL doesn't it?

Corholio

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is an excellent man manager and motivator .
He did an excellent job at Barcelona but he inherited an excellent squad from Riijkaard.
His major success was to make Messi the fulcrum of the team ,playing him more centrally .He also decided to do this at the expense of Ronaldinho who was in decline.

His main weakness is the players he bought in at Barcelona .
He made some terrible buys,with the 15 million euro signing of Alexander Hleb, the 16.5 million euro signing of Martin Caceres, 8 million euros for Henrique, the absurd buy of Dmytro Chygrynskiy for 25 million euros and of course the ludicrous 69 million euros paid for Zlatan Ibrahimovic .

I dont think he would be a success at Chelsea.

Considering what you just said, he'd be a huge success at Chelsea!

Wouldn't have to worry about buying the players :pac:

opr

Think I've posted this before but





Opr

IvySlayer

niallo27 wrote: »

Well didn't he turn a nothing St mirren side into first division champions and broke the Celtic rangers dominance with Aberdeen and also won a European trophy with them, he also has rebuilt winning utd teams over and over again so you cant compare him to pep if thats what you are trying to do. I'm not Pep isn't world class, I just think he needs to prove himself fully yet, I think he knows that himself.

Did I just read this? From niallo27?

My heads about to explode :P

FlawedGenius

Inherited probably the best bunch of players ever.
Didn't seem to make a bollox of anything though and always came across well in interviews which is half the battle nowadays.
He played in a brilliant Barca side himself so he has a great education. Unlike someone like AVB who never played the sport at any kind of a level.

To be a real great up there with Mourinho and Fergie he needs to do it somewhere else ala Chelsea or United.

Winston Payne

I'm sure most of us have seen this, but for the people who haven't here it is (contains some NSFW language otherwise I'd just put it up as an image: )

A Day In The Life of Pep Guardiola

He's a fantastic coach imo. He's never had to buy players (done by sporting director at Barcelona, Guardiola would have had some input) so it'd be interesting to see how he got on in that regard if he was given free reign somewhere as regards transfers.

dfx-

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Inherited probably the best bunch of players ever.

He inherited this squad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_FC_Barcelona_season#Squad_information

Milito, Oleguer, Thuram, Sylvinho, Deco, Bojan, Marquez, Edmilson, Gudjohnsen, Zambrotta..best players ever?

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is an excellent man manager and motivator .
He did an excellent job at Barcelona but he inherited an excellent squad from Riijkaard.
His major success was to make Messi the fulcrum of the team ,playing him more centrally .He also decided to do this at the expense of Ronaldinho who was in decline.

Rijkaard's last season at Barcelona was exceptionally poor. Nothing about it was excellent. Henry was diabolical, Deco/Ronaldinho/Eto'o and Messi were involved in infighting. Players were late for training and indiscipline was rife. The 4-1 defeat to Madrid at the end of that season was a humiliation.

From that to all six possible trophies, in 6 months.

Zebra3

baz2009 wrote: »

You make it sound like he took them from mid-table obscurity, ffs, he took them from 3rd place. :pac:

Season before Pep, finished 18 points behind RM.

First season with Pep, finished 9 points ahead of RM also won the CL and Copa.

Effortless.... :rolleyes:

pickarooney

I'm sure he's a very good manager and given the right support he could do a great job at another club. That club is surely not Chelsea F.C. though.

He should also not be allowed to buy any player over 5'6" as he seems to have no eye for a tall guy.

pickarooney

pickarooney wrote: »

I'm sure he's a very good manager and given the right support he could do a great job at another club. That club is surely not Chelsea F.C. though.

He should also not be allowed to buy any player over 5'6" as he seems to have no eye for a tall guy.

This is key.

At Barca. he's working with players, youths everyone that has the "Barcelona philosopy" ingrained in them. Players that play a certain way from kids to first team.

It could take a good few years before it bears fruits on a constant basis. This would rule out Chelsea and there's patience only for instant success.

He would be the manager to sign if a club wanted long term success whilst perhaps not getting instant joy.

Davaeo09

dfx- wrote: »

He inherited this squad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%9308_FC_Barcelona_season#Squad_information

Milito, Oleguer, Thuram, Sylvinho, Deco, Bojan, Marquez, Edmilson, Gudjohnsen, Zambrotta..best players ever?



Rijkaard's last season at Barcelona was exceptionally poor. Nothing about it was excellent. Henry was diabolical, Deco/Ronaldinho/Eto'o and Messi were involved in infighting. Players were late for training and indiscipline was rife. The 4-1 defeat to Madrid at the end of that season was a humiliation.

From that to all six possible trophies, in 6 months.

And the 6-2 and 5-0 games versus Madrid will never be let down by us culés! Pep's the man!

Sorry I haven't got the time to do a longer post right now, but people talking about this 3-4-3 change.. He only really experimented with that in his last 12 month-ish. The only time that formation were preferred to 4-3-3 for an important game was against Milan in the champions league and a few of the league games against teams that would park the bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickarooney
I'm sure he's a very good manager and given the right support he could do a great job at another club. That club is surely not Chelsea F.C. though.

He should also not be allowed to buy any player over 5'6" as he seems to have no eye for a tall guy.
Lol is this regarding Ibra?

keane2097

I haven't checked, but I'd probably bet a good chunk that the people who are "unsure" about Pep and the people in that old "Is Ibrahimovic really all that" thread would make for an interesting Venn Diagram.

gimmick

Is Pep really all that? Yes I think so. I just hope he does not feel the need to prove it at Chelsea.

At a guess I doubt he would be able to handle the hands on approach of RA. If he were to take the job I would assume he would have every assurance in the world that he is Chelseas manager, not just the head coach.

PhlegmyMoses

It's not unfair to suggest that Pep's next job is an important one for him to cement his reputation. A very special set of circumstances were in place when he became Barca manager.

The greatest youth system we've ever seen coupled with a returning hero who had the respect of the players and a vision of how he liked football to be played that coincided with the style of the personnel he had to implement it.

He showed some good managerial traits when he got rid of the under performers from the club. He felt he could get no more out of Ronaldinho, Deco, Zambrotta, Ezquerro and Edmilson and he was proven right in the coming years.

He showed some bad managerial traits in some of the signings that were made for big money and how he handled those signings.

The next step is huge for him. The team he inherits may not be capable of the expansive football he encourages and he will not have a youth system that is indoctrinated in this way. He will have to spend big at times and play styles of football that are alien to him.

If he is half as successful at his next job then he will be considered one of the greats.

Zebra3

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

It's not unfair to suggest that Pep's next job is an important one for him to cement his reputation. A very special set of circumstances were in place when he became Barca manager.

The greatest youth system we've ever seen coupled with a returning hero who had the respect of the players and a vision of how he liked football to be played that coincided with the style of the personnel he had to implement it.

He wasn't a returning hero, he stepped up from managing the club's B team.

PhlegmyMoses

Zebra3 wrote: »

He wasn't a returning hero, he stepped up from managing the club's B team.

Perhaps it was the wrong turn of phrase. He was Barca through and through and had worked with many of these players at youth level. He was a club hero so that's always a motivating factor for a group of people who have come through the youth ranks. It also helped that he is a good manager, of course.

The error doesn't really detract from the overall point, though.

starviewadams

He's all that and a bag of chips.

dfx-

He wasn't so much of a hero for those calling for his head after losing at home to Numancia in his first home game.

What is particular about Guardiola is his access to the B team in advance of his job. He was responsible for including Pedro and his rise that season and put his confidence and trust in Thiago, Cuenca, Tello, Bartra, Muniesa amongst others.

MisterAnarchy

dfx- wrote: »

Rijkaard's last season at Barcelona was exceptionally poor. Nothing about it was excellent. Henry was diabolical, Deco/Ronaldinho/Eto'o and Messi were involved in infighting. Players were late for training and indiscipline was rife. The 4-1 defeat to Madrid at the end of that season was a humiliation.

From that to all six possible trophies, in 6 months.

That is true ,morale was very low in the side ,it seems some players wanted Riijkaard out and weren't even trying in the last few months of the season.
The 4-1 defeat was down to the players not trying a jot.

They were always going to improve once Riijkard left as a new manager could reinvigorate the team and add new ideas .
The idea that the squad was poor is not true, it was a good squad,they had won the Champions league and La Liga 2 seasons previously .

miralize

FlawedGenius wrote: »

Inherited probably the best bunch of players ever.
Didn't seem to make a bollox of anything though and always came across well in interviews which is half the battle nowadays.
He played in a brilliant Barca side himself so he has a great education. Unlike someone like AVB who never played the sport at any kind of a level.

To be a real great up there with Mourinho and Fergie he needs to do it somewhere else ala Chelsea or United.

But.. but he did it at Barcelona, arguably greater than both...

cournioni

rarnes1 wrote: »

He's hopeless

Pic's wrong...


He only won 2 SC Europa's.

Turtwig

One of the things that struck me from Ibra was how much surprised he was at the Barca's players attitude to their coach. They apparently never questioned him in match planning and listened to him as if he was their school teacher. If that's true, then I'd say Pep might find it much much harder to manage outside of a culture like that.
There's no doubt in my mind he's a great tactician but to play the type of football he requires a team to play, everyone needs to trust the tactics and do their shift 100%. I can't see that happening in the Chelsea portrayed in the popular press.
Not only that but his type of game required unbelievable level of technical skills and understanding. If I recall correctly Henry (? I think?) commented on how strange playing was at times everyone seemed to know what to do from their time in La Masia but he was at a total loss, on paper he knew where he was supposed to be but he couldn't help resorting to being where his body normally went. Or something like that.

Zebra3

dfx- wrote: »

He wasn't so much of a hero for those calling for his head after losing at home to Numancia in his first home game.

They lost away to Numancia and tbf, there was no major calling for his head, just a few journos writing crap to fill all the space in Marca and As.