Is pep really all that?

Maximus Alexander

He's welcome to come prove himself at United if he likes.

Wouldn't be crazy about his style, aesthetically. But I don't really care about that if trophies are involved.

CSF

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

He's welcome to come prove himself at United if he likes.

Wouldn't be crazy about his style, aesthetically. But I don't really care about that if trophies are involved.

All jokes aside, how many of the squad would he even keep? That would be one of the craziest overhauls in history.

gosplan

I think last the two legs showed the limitations of Ribery and Robben tbh.

They offered very little against defenders who were in position and simply stood in front of them and didn't commit.

I think Robben's OK but so much of what they do goes through him and I think if you want to stay 'the best team in the world', you need a better player there.

Tiki-taka works but not with Robben and Mandzukic.

CSF

gosplan wrote: »

I think last the two legs showed the limitations of Ribery and Robben tbh.

They offered very little against defenders who were in position and simply stood in front of them and didn't commit.

I think Robben's OK but so much of what they do goes through him and I think if you want to stay 'the best team in the world', you need a better player there.

Tiki-taka works but not with Robben and Mandzukic.

I think posts like this ignore so much of what has happened this year. Bayern have been phenomenal. There isn't a problem there, they just lost 2 big games against a world class team.

Dont be at yourself

Turtwig wrote: »

Interestingly, iirc, Pep's Barcelona of 2009/2010 almost set the European record for least goals conceded from set plays. It was funny at the time because RTE pundits claimed they were weak at set plays.

Yes but how many set plays did they give away? The nature of their play and domination of possession is that they don't give away many corners or frees compared to other teams.

It'd be interesting to see the % of set pieces where they've conceded compared to other teams, because I'd say RTE's 3 wise men would be vindicated.

Turtwig

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

Yes but how many set plays did they give away? The nature of their play and domination of possession is that they don't give away many corners or frees compared to other teams.

It'd be interesting to see the % of set pieces where they've conceded compared to other teams, because I'd say RTE's 3 wise men would be vindicated.

Very good point.

Trying to find the necessary statistics now for an hour. Bugger that. You'd think this stuff would be compiled. All I can find is totals corners conceded for and against which is useless. Need the number of chances. Interestingly in the UK corners seem to net more goals than the continent. Possibly down to the lack of zonal marking. :pac:

MisterAnarchy

Turtwig wrote: »

Interestingly in the UK corners seem to net more goals than the continent. Possibly down to the lack of zonal marking. :pac:

Interesting but not surprising.
There is a huge emphasis on set pieces by English teams.
Some teams rely on set pieces as their primary method of scoring .:o

It'd be interesting to see the % of set pieces where they've conceded compared to other teams, because I'd say RTE's 3 wise men would be vindicated.

The boys were excellent tonight ,great to listen to .
Brady really put the boot into Mourinho .

Shane.C

Extremely poor at getting his team to defend set pieces well!, it looks as if the players are afraid to attack the ball at times.

It just looks like there is no 'Plan B'.
When his teams tactics are countered against using players of phenomenal pace they are left wide open at the back.
High pressure, High line and possession tactics, you need CB's who are very pacey and a keeper who can act as a sweeper.

Hopefully he uses it as a learning curve, tika taka can be used but not against everyone, as a modern manager you need to be flexible and he hasn't shown that in the Madrid game.

Liam O

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Interesting but not surprising.
There is a huge emphasis on set pieces by English teams.
Some teams rely on set pieces as their primary method of scoring .:o



The boys were excellent tonight ,great to listen to .
Brady really put the boot into Mourinho .

There's nothing embarrassing about using set pieces to your advantage, it'd be like free throws not being worked on in the NBA.

eagle eye

Theres another thing, everytime his team is beaten its a shock which kinda shows just how good his game plan is.

Edit to add: His stats right now are 73.67 % Wins 17.33 % Draw 9.00 % Losses

Is there anybody ever in a top league within a country mile of those stats?

Shanotheslayer

eagle eye wrote: »

Theres another thing, everytime his team is beaten its a shock which kinda shows just how good his game plan is.

Edit to add: His stats right now are 73.67 % Wins 17.33 % Draw 9.00 % Losses

Is there anybody ever in a top league within a country mile of those stats?

Me in football manager

Maximus Alexander

eagle eye wrote: »

Theres another thing, everytime his team is beaten its a shock which kinda shows just how good his game plan is.

Edit to add: His stats right now are 73.67 % Wins 17.33 % Draw 9.00 % Losses

Is there anybody ever in a top league within a country mile of those stats?

Alex Ferguson has a 65% win ratio in the Premier League over 20 seasons which wouldn't be far off I should think. Mourinho, until last year at least, was at nearly 71% for the PL.

I can't find separate figures for Europe and other cups, or broken down by year, which you'd need for a fair comparison because both of the above have managed teams who were nowhere near the level Barca and Bayern were at when Pep took over which would skew the figures.

Liam O

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Alex Ferguson has a 65% win ratio in the Premier League over 20 seasons which wouldn't be far off I should think. Mourinho, until last year at least, was at nearly 71% for the PL.

I can't find separate figures for Europe and other cups, or broken down by year, which you'd need for a fair comparison because both of the above have managed teams who were nowhere near the level Barca and Bayern were at when Pep took over which would skew the figures.

Barca weren't that good when Pep took over. He turned them into what they became. I'd say Barca were streets behind both Chelsea and United when Pep took over. The man, whether your opinion is for the good or bad has revolutionised the modern game and I'm sure will continue for many years to come. I'd say this loss will have effected him majorly given how much he puts into it and Bayern are going to be a huge force while he's there. When he works out the kinks they could be unstoppable, sure United beat Barca over 2 legs in 2008, Mourinho in 2010, you're not going to win it every year but the standard of Barcelona in 2009 is probably as high a plateau as is possible and that was mainly down to Pep.

Maximus Alexander

Liam O wrote: »

Barca weren't that good when Pep took over. He turned them into what they became. I'd say Barca were streets behind both Chelsea and United when Pep took over. The man, whether your opinion is for the good or bad has revolutionised the modern game and I'm sure will continue for many years to come. I'd say this loss will have effected him majorly given how much he puts into it and Bayern are going to be a huge force while he's there. When he works out the kinks they could be unstoppable, sure United beat Barca over 2 legs in 2008, Mourinho in 2010, you're not going to win it every year but the standard of Barcelona in 2009 is probably as high a plateau as is possible and that was mainly down to Pep.

I think you're missing the point of what I was getting at. When comparing figures like these, in Pep's instance you're looking at a career spent managing teams that were at or very close to the top for his entire tenure, from the day he took over.

The same figure for both of the other managers I mentioned would be skewed by taking over clubs which, at that time, were further off the pace compared to their competition. That's why I chose to single out the Premier League era for Ferguson, it was the only place I could split the statistics that would leave the playing field a little more level, with United possibly being at a closer relative level in 1992 to Barcelona in 2008.

While Pep's figure is impressive, it's not a great way to compare managers unless you can compare like with like. You can't really do that here unless you can find much more fine grained statistics than I have.

So, the response to the original post's question "Is there anybody ever in a top league within a country mile of those stats?" is probably "No", but that might not be particularly meaningful.

EDIT: Just to clarify, before I get hopped on, I am not saying that Pep isn't a great manager. Just responding to a particular point.

evad_lhorg

Is Pep all that......
09 won Champions League
10 Semi Final
11 Won it
12 Semi Final
13 break....
14 Semi final

Pretty damn amazing.... and won his leagues in 09, 10, 11 and 14.

Stupid thread. They got beaten.... who doesnt get beaten at some point.

MisterAnarchy

Liam O wrote: »

. I'd say Barca were streets behind both Chelsea and United when Pep took over.

I dont know about that .
Utd beat Barcelona in the semi final by one goal and had to soak up a huge amount of pressure and give up the majority of possession to Barcelona.
Rijkaard had a good team but they were tailing off in 2008 and there was a bit of unrest/low morale in the camp but they were still a very good side.

Pep took the team to a new level ,streets ahead of Utd and Chelsea and pretty much everyone else.

Montroseee

'i laughed from day 1 when everyone was calling barca the greatest ever. i laughed just as hard when everyone said the bundesliga was the new power. i will save my biggest laugh for when the dreadful keepball 2 yard sidewards and backwards passing style finally dies the death it so richly deserves. guardiola himself is guilty of crimes against football and i would urge anyone who sees him to make a citizens arrest.'

RIP Tika Taka.

elefant

Montroseee wrote: »

'i laughed from day 1 when everyone was calling barca the greatest ever. i laughed just as hard when everyone said the bundesliga was the new power. i will save my biggest laugh for when the dreadful keepball 2 yard sidewards and backwards passing style finally dies the death it so richly deserves. guardiola himself is guilty of crimes against football and i would urge anyone who sees him to make a citizens arrest.'

RIP Tika Taka.

Are you quoting yourself?

Liam O

Montroseee wrote: »

'i laughed from day 1 when everyone was calling barca the greatest ever. i laughed just as hard when everyone said the bundesliga was the new power. i will save my biggest laugh for when the dreadful keepball 2 yard sidewards and backwards passing style finally dies the death it so richly deserves. guardiola himself is guilty of crimes against football and i would urge anyone who sees him to make a citizens arrest.'

RIP Tika Taka.

That Barcelona team in 09-11 probably are the best ever, best I've seen anyway so that covers the modern era.

Kirby

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The boys were excellent tonight ,great to listen to .
Brady really put the boot into Mourinho .

His views on managers who criticised both Trap and Wenger should be discounted. It's fairly transparent.

Of course he would take every opportunity to have a go at Mourinho because Mourinho called Wenger a specialist in failure.