Jack Russell kills their eight day old boy

Run_to_da_hills

I never trusted the temperament of these dogs with young children and I would certainly never leave them unaccompanied together.

My brother had to get rid of his Jack Russell quite recently as it snapped at his year old child, probably through jealously as the kid was getting more attention than the dog.

An eight-day-old baby has died after being attacked by his family’s pet terrier.

Harry Harper is understood to have suffered a crushed skull after being bitten just once by the Jack Russell-cross. The animal has since been destroyed.
Yesterday it was unclear which family members were in the room at the time of the incident.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236193/Familys-pet-terrier-kills-day-old-boy-Mothers-horror-Jack-Russell-cross-bites-child-jealousy-attack.html

DamagedTrax

thats terrible poor family.

(could have done without the sensationalism of the mail, utterly disgusting journalism :mad: )

ISDW

Its very, very sad and I'm not going to belittle the tragedy of it at all, but it actually shows that breed specific legislation and judging a dog by what breed it is is pointless. JRTs aren't on any restricted breed lists anywhere, its the individual dog and training and socialising that determines its actions, not its parentage.

seamus

Very sad indeed. Although we are 99.999999% sure that Darcey wouldn't do anything to harm our new little girl, for everyone's protection including the dog's, we just don't allow a situation to arise where the dog could get near the baby to lick, nip or bite. She's too strong and the baby is too weak.

The fact that this is international news (ok, Ireland, UK and maybe France) goes to show how insanely rare incidents like this are.

Dicky Pride

I believe, and I think I'm in the minority here, that dogs belong outside. Yes you may think you know your dog inside and out. "He wouldn't hurt a fly", but regardless of how much you love animals, nobody knows for a fact that their dog wouldn't confuse an 8 day old baby for a teddy bear or some kind of small animal that he's unfamiliar with or frightened by.

I have a spaniel that sleeps outside in a massive and very comfortable kennel. He loves it. And my 16 month old daughter loves him too, but he would never be allowed where she lives and plays.

planetX

Dicky Pride wrote: »

I believe, and I think I'm in the minority here, that dogs belong outside. Yes you may think you know your dog inside and out. "He wouldn't hurt a fly", but regardless of how much you love animals, nobody knows for a fact that their dog wouldn't confuse an 8 day old baby for a teddy bear or some kind of small animal that he's unfamiliar with or frightened by.

I have a spaniel that sleeps outside in a massive and very comfortable kennel. He loves it. And my 16 month old daughter loves him too, but he would never be allowed where she lives and plays.

dog attacks happen outside too you know. It's possible to keep a dog in certain parts of a house if necessary, and generally newborns aren't left down within reach of an animal. I wouldn't have a dog if it wasn't part of my household.

kylith

I often find that the 'he wouldn't hurt a fly' are the kind of owners whose dogs tend to have behavioural problems, a good owner is aware that their pet is an animal, know it will react in ways they can't anticipate sometimes, and tries to keep the dogs safe from situations they would be uncomfortable in.

My pair of terriers are very reactive to the sound of babies crying, they definitely regard it as an animal sound and will react to it on telly like nothing else; they'll prick up their ears during a programme where, say, birds are calling, but a crying baby gets their full attention. They've never been near a baby, but I already know that it would take a lot of preparation before they would be relaxed around one.

I've often said that terriers aren't good pets for children; they have too high a prey drive, they can be short tempered, and they often can't stand being manhandled the way larger dogs can.

My heart goes out to this family.

DBK

I absolutely love my 9yr old Shar Pei. He's great with the kids, lets them do almost anything to them but I'd still never leave him alone with them.

Sometime kids will do things that they don't understand will hurt a dog and it might snap. A Shar Pei is not something you would like to have a hand or anything near if they "snap".

fatmammycat

Dicky Pride wrote: »

I believe, and I think I'm in the minority here, that dogs belong outside. Yes you may think you know your dog inside and out. "He wouldn't hurt a fly", but regardless of how much you love animals, nobody knows for a fact that their dog wouldn't confuse an 8 day old baby for a teddy bear or some kind of small animal that he's unfamiliar with or frightened by.

I have a spaniel that sleeps outside in a massive and very comfortable kennel. He loves it. And my 16 month old daughter loves him too, but he would never be allowed where she lives and plays.

Oh really? It's interesting then that the recent malamute and husky attack here in ireland were from dogs kept outside.
It doesn't matter where an animal is kept, although I would suggest a dog who is happily integrated into the pack ( and part of the household) is a more stable dog in general, being aware of potential danger regarding children and dogs is paramount to safetly. Of couse the potential for an attack is present; children do not read body language or stress signals, a lot of dogs are not mentally stimulated enough, or exercised enough. In fact I would also suggest that most good dog owners don't say their dog would never hurt a fly, but rather know that a dog is a dog and can react negatively to any given situation.

Ellis Dee

What a terrible tragedy! In all probability the poor dog meant no harm at all, but just reacted impulsively to some movement by the baby, who was so small and vulnerable that even one snap of the jaws, possibly only playful, was fatal.

My eight-year-old border collie/cocker spaniel cross absolutely loves children and to be patted by them, but I would never even dream of leaving him unattended with any child younger than five or six. The risk that he would do anything to harm them is almost infinitesimal, but still more than I would be willing to accept. It seems highly irresponsible to leave a baby that small unattended with even a cat, much less a dog, but I don't want to seem critical of the parents, who have suffered such a terrible loss and I empathise with them in their awful bereavement..

borderlinemeath

Ellis Dee wrote: »

What a terrible tragedy! In all probability the poor dog meant no harm at all, but just reacted impulsively to some movement by the baby, who was so small and vulnerable that even one snap of the jaws, possibly only playful, was fatal.

My eight-year-old border collie/cocker spaniel cross absolutely loves children and to be patted by them, but I would never even dream of leaving him unattended with any child younger than five or six. The risk that he would do anything to harm them is almost infinitesimal, but still more than I would be willing to accept. It seems highly irresponsible to leave a baby that small unattended with even a cat, much less a dog, but I don't want to seem critical of the parents, who have suffered such a terrible loss and I empathise with them in their awful bereavement..

I know it's hard not to be critical of the parents but one of the quotes in that article said that the 19yr old mother tweeted a few weeks ago that the dog had destroyed one of her cuddly toys, yet the dog was still allowed to be in the same place as the newborn without adequate supervision?

It's a complete tragedy for the family but if they didn't make any attempt to socialise or acclimatise the dog to the new family addition then they cannot point the finger anywhere else. It just shows the importance of proper socialisation and introducing a new baby and all the paraphenalia (buggy, stairgates etc) that goes with it before the child is even born.

loveisdivine

Ellis Dee wrote: »

but I don't want to seem critical of the parents, who have suffered such a terrible loss and I empathise with them in their awful bereavement..

I get what you're saying but I find it really annoying when an incident occurs that could have been prevented by the parents and people think its horrible to critisice them. Well you can be certainly sure that if the baby had been in the care of say a babysitter and this had happened, everyone would be jumping all over them, including the parents. So why should the parents not be called out on their mistake?

barbiegirl

Just like not all rotties and alsatians are wicked, so not all Jack Russells are snappy. Do not please go down the road of bashing one breed.

This poor child died because it was left where a dog could get to it. You never leave a child unattended with a dog. We all on here know that golden rule. ANY dog.

I know that when we hopefully have a child we will spend at least 6 months getting our jack cross and retriever cross used to children, a crying tape, carrying a baby doll, baby gates, a buggy etc. etc. We'll probably even get in a behaviourist to make sure we're doing it all right. And even then we know not to leave any child in danger.

Don't tar all Jack Russell and Jack Russell owners with the one brush.

Rest in peace little angel.

SillyMangoX

I dont get why the dog attacking a teddy is considered a warning sign, do all dogs not play with and inevitably destroy their toys? How many of your pet dogs destroy teddies, and do you immediately think oh crap, now I better look out that he doesnt kill a baby. Also, what difference does it make if the parents are still in a relationship, was it reallly necessary to put in so many pictures of the mother? What happened is a truely awful tradgity, I really feel for the family but my god that article annoys me so much.

DBB

As I understand it from reading a different article (sorry, can't bring myself to read the daily mail), another very common factor was in place for the terrible tragedy.
The dog, it seems, belongs to the baby's grandparents, and the attack happened in their home, not the baby's home.
I think, if we're to get all in a tizz about keeping dogs outside for the safety of children, to be balanced we therefore also have to remove or reduce things from the home which are statistically far more dangerous to a child, in terms of causing death or injury more often than dogs do.
The first most dangerous thing to get rid of would be the parents themselves. Then I'd get rid of all electrical appliances. Cars would definitely have to go. If I lived on a farm, the animals and slurry pit would be next. I would move to a bungalow in case anyone falls down the stairs.
But of course, I'm just continuing a silly argument to its logical conclusion. Not only has it been correctly pointed our that at least as many, if nor more serious dog attacks happen outside in the garden, it has also been correctly and rationally pointed out by many that a baby or child should not be left alone around anything that can harm it... Electrical sockets, curtain cords, boiling kettles, stairs, moving cars, or dogs.
For a small bit of oft-missing perspective in this argument, might I recommend a nice little book by Janis Bradley called "Dogs Bite. But Slippers and Balloons Are More Dangerous".

All that aside, my deepest condolences to the family. What a tragic end to a short life.

DBK

There are articles abound about getting your dog prepped for a baby. I read some "Diapers and Dogs" rings a bell. But even with all the info, dogs have off days and you just can never be 100% of them.

My dog used to try pull the blanket down from my baby as he would freak if he couldn't see her face. People might say "ah, how cute" BUT what happens when he cuts her face with his nails pawing at her? Then he's the worst dog in the world.

At then end of the day, no matter how well you know your dog, its better to be safe than sorry when it comes to babies and dogs.

borderlinemeath

SillyMangoX wrote: »

I dont get why the dog attacking a teddy is considered a warning sign, do all dogs not play with and inevitably destroy their toys? How many of your pet dogs destroy teddies, and do you immediately think oh crap, now I better look out that he doesnt kill a baby. Also, what difference does it make if the parents are still in a relationship, was it reallly necessary to put in so many pictures of the mother? What happened is a truely awful tradgity, I really feel for the family but my god that article annoys me so much.

It's not that it's a warning sign that the dog would definitely attack the newborn, but it shows what the small family pet is capable of. And his ability to be a destructive force was ignored. Not all dogs will destroy a cuddly toy if presented with it, one of my setters will, the other won't and their little yorkie friend won't either. To a dog that likes to play with anything they can get their mouth around a baby could present itself as a toy or a game and the responsible adults don't read the warning signs.

Ms Tootsie

Firstly my condolences to the family, it is something I would never wish on anyone but I think it is horrible to lay the blame for such a tragic accident at the foot of the dog breed, in this case a Jack Russel Cross.

The blame needs to stop with those who failed, firstly to properly train the dog, no matter what the breed, before the baby arrived. In reports it has been described as being well known in the neighbour hood as a vicious dog. This just screams to me that there was a serious lack of training and socialising with this dog in the first place never mind training it how to behave around babies.

As other posters have said when my OH and I are lucky enough to have a baby from the moment that pregnancy is confirmed we will spent the next 9 or so months preparing our house and our dog for the new arrival to our family and if that means getting specialist help to make sure we have everything covered then so be it. Even then, as much as our dog is a part of our family we will not leave him with a baby without adequate supervision. But that doesnt mean sticking him outside and isolating him from the family.We will work as hard as we can to ensure the dog still feels as part of the family so to avoid any issues of jealousy.

Stories like this are hyped up so that people end up attacking the dog breed instead of the people responsible for the dog and the baby.

angelfire9

Ok i don't have a dog, any dog (though i'd love one at the moment we are a kitty household)
My in laws have 3 JRT's, 1 of which (the youngest) runs and hides as soon as our car drives into the yard
The middle dog comes over for a sniff and then goes off to play with his toys when we arrive
The eldest dog comes over, sits down, rolls over and is the gentlest dog i've ever seen and our almost 2 year old adores him
Would i leave him and her unsupervised in a room for even 5 seconds?
Damn sure i would NOT
Bloody hell our daughter is almost 2 and when she arrived home it tooks months for our cat to get used to her and for the first year i wouldn't have even considered leaving kitty and baby in the same room alone without adult supervision
Babies & animals don't mix alone
Supervised is fine but never alone

I feel terrible for the parents involved but.....

fatmammycat

angelfire9 wrote: »

Ok i don't have a dog, any dog (though i'd love one at the moment we are a kitty household)
My in laws have 3 JRT's, 1 of which (the youngest) runs and hides as soon as our car drives into the yard
The middle dog comes over for a sniff and then goes off to play with his toys when we arrive
The eldest dog comes over, sits down, rolls over and is the gentlest dog i've ever seen and our almost 2 year old adores him
Would i leave him and her unsupervised in a room for even 5 seconds?
Damn sure i would NOT
Bloody hell our daughter is almost 2 and when she arrived home it tooks months for our cat to get used to her and for the first year i wouldn't have even considered leaving kitty and baby in the same room alone without adult supervision
Babies & animals don't mix alone
Supervised is fine but never alone

I feel terrible for the parents involved but.....

You know what, there should be no 'but....' at the end of your post. The child was at the grandparents' house and there but for the grace of the universe go any of us.

Whispered

God help the parents and grandparents. What a terrible thing to have to deal with.

havetoquit

I agree that dogs and children should never ever be left alone without adult supervision and even not then, unless the animal has been trained, socialized and so on.

So often one sees an innocent child pulling the dog's tail and hurting it, poking them in the eyes, sitting on them etc etc. When I see such things, it rings terrifying alarm bells.

I have kept dogs all my life and know that unless one has the time, love and money to care for them properly that it is best not to be a dog owner. One has and understand that a dog is meant to be a huge part of our life, a loyal companion, not something to be left to it's own devices with little or no human interaction or proper exercise for hours on end. Not something to be left in cold wet gardens without shelter, or tied to a clothes line in our absence. So sad to see so much of this still and how angry and frustrated those animals must be and is it any wonder?

My heart goes out to the family who experienced this awful tragedy.

Sulla Felix

kylith wrote: »

I often find that the 'he wouldn't hurt a fly' are the kind of owners whose dogs tend to have behavioural problems, a good owner is aware that their pet is an animal, know it will react in ways they can't anticipate sometimes, and tries to keep the dogs safe from situations they would be uncomfortable in.

Slight tangent but I find that it's the same with people who have similar opinions of thier kids. We, and most definitely at a young age, are only animals at heart as well.

Anyway, RIP, tragic accident.

Run_to_da_hills

A close one with another child, this time the dog did a runner.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2236805/Toddler-left-horrific-facial-injuries-attacked-dog-played-roundabout.html

carav10

SillyMangoX wrote: »

I dont get why the dog attacking a teddy is considered a warning sign, do all dogs not play with and inevitably destroy their toys? How many of your pet dogs destroy teddies, and do you immediately think oh crap, now I better look out that he doesnt kill a baby. .

There's a difference between a dog generally playing with a soft toy & eventually ripping it apart to a dog seriously trying to kill the living daylights out of a toy. It can tell quite a lot about the intensity of a dog's prey drive. But it depends how much they're reading into that comment!

I wonder about the nature of the injuries to the baby as one pin down that many dogs do to their pups & playmates in the wrong place of the neck would have been enough to cause a fatality in such a young baby in which case poor dog. I haven't seen reports that it was a frenzied attack but may have missed it. No matter what though, dog & baby should have been nowhere near each other. Can't imagine what they must all be going through.

Mr.Prodston

It is beyond doubt that this is a terribly sad story but you just don't leave your 8 day old baby within reach of any animal. Growing up I had a Jack Russell and we couldn't trust her a lot of the time, therefore we made sure she wouldn't come in contact with anyone that she may not like.

It's not fair on a dog to be expected to know not to attack, even if they think it's playful.

DBB

According to the reports I read, it was a single bite, reportedly to the baby's skull. But I'm not sure if the actual cause of death has been released yet. So, not a frenzied attack by the sounds of it, but just goes to show how delicate a little baby is.

RossPaws

I hate hearing stories like this. I feel so sorry for the family, the baby, and the dog. Pretty sure the dog didn't head in with intent to kill the child.

I have two dogs, one a collie cross and one a terrier. The spitz cross is a great dog with us, but oh how he hates children. We keep him away, if relatives with children are visiting he either gets put upstairs or if it's fine out, into the garden. We can't risk it.

The terrier on the other hand is the most gentle animal. She adores babies and children. We wouldn't leave her alone with them, but we know her well enough that she plays with the older kids (6 and 7) under our supervision. She's always so happy to see them. I remember the biggest problem we had with her and our baby nephew was that she licked his arm once while he was drinking from his bottle and he got a rash from it. As far as these things go, we considered ourselves lucky.

It just goes to show that bsl and stereotyping breeds just doesn't work. In our case, the fluffy collie mix who looks so happy and friendly is by far more dangerous than the "wicked" looking terrier cross with her wiry hair and yappy bark.

iguana

DBB wrote:

The dog, it seems, belongs to the baby's grandparents, and the attack happened in their home, not the baby's home.

According to the DM article it was the baby's home too as he and his mother live(d) with her parents/his grandparents.

I found this story particularly upsetting as my son is two days older than Harry and I can't imagine what it would be like to lose a baby so horribly. I know that bringing Sam home has caused a seismic shift for my dogs. I work hard at minimising the disruption to their lives, ensure they remain well exercised and still feel valued in our family. But I won't let them alone in a room together as even though I don't think they are jealous of him and I don't think they would attack him, I know they are incredibly curious about him, I suspect they think he is a toy and they could hurt him badly without intending to.

Bubblefett

It's a heartbreaking story, my thoughts are with the family.

I've a minature JR/Chihuahua cross myself. He's tiny, friendly and loves kids. But I'd never leave him alone with a child, be they a few days old or a few years old. Same reason I won't let him approach kids when we go out for our walk.
While I trust him and know I'v trained him very well, he's still prone to getting scared- be it by a sudden movement,sound or someone grabbing at him, and he could still lash out out of pure fear. Fight or flight to an extent I suppose.
I don't think I could take it if he reacted to someone not knowing how to be around dogs (like a child grabbing at his tail where he has an injury) or whatever it may be and him hurting someone. The idea of him actually harming someone, especially a kid and that they could demand he be pts terrifies me.

(not saying that is the case with this poor baby of course, just saying it's a fear that always plays on my mind)

havetoquit

I also wish that I somehow could send these messages to the many Americans on Utube who actually post videos of their babies lying on the floor cuddled right in to their dogs, some of them a frightening size. It is nerve wrecking just looking at them and imagining what could happen if the dog for any reason freaks out in some way.

Can they obviously be so stupid to think that just because they are there in the room with them that it still could not happen so so easily?

There needs to be world wide education and awareness from all media about this topic, as otherwise, it will not be heeded and more accidents will occur.

There are so many animals in homes out there where they are not being cared for properly or even receiving basic training and they are growing into naturally frustrated angry under exercised hyper creatures and little wonder. These very dogs do not behave in a normal way and can so often just flip seemingly, without reason, but there is always a reason.

Take the scenario of a dog being left alone all day for the family to get home and then maybe to ignore his need for attention and a little love. The family's baby or small children are being picked up, played with etc and then suddenly out of pure jealousy and pent up anger that same dog can attack one or other of those children. It happens all the time and still nobody learns.

People will say how wonderful or trustworthy their dog is around their children..... well how trustworthy? Only until something happens.

So so sad and I know that most of these horrid accidents are born not out of willful neglect, but basically out of ignorance of the capability of dogs.

I was simply gently rubbing a friend's dog gently under his chin one day some years ago and he literally jumped up and rendered my mouth needing 10 stitches!!

He had been playing with everyone in the house all day previous to that and I had even taken him for a walk, but somehow it seems that because his owner was paying more attention to the guests in the house as she was to him, he just flipped for that split second.

I am speaking of a breed that is generally gentle, docile and deemed to be sociable in all situations. Not so and I learned a very valuable lesson.

After that traumatic experience I cannot even allow my own small loving dog near my upper body, even when he is craving for attention. I jump every time the poor little guy makes a sudden move in my direction, even though he is doing so in a totally non aggressive and playful way.