Liverpool v Young Boys 8 pm (ITV4)

mike65

Gerrard very nearly directly led to YB scoring as he dawdled at one point, he seems to think he doesn't have to put a shift in.

Rodgers has to take massive blame for that fúckup

Leiva

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard played well, had a lovely assist too.

The midfield would be better set up if the manager played the players to their strengths.

See its a fine line for a manager being good or disappointing.

Rodgers actually done alright tonight, but not learning from giving away a lead (especially with mins to go) is his downfall tonight.
We need to be more classy and cocky and when in the lead make the opposition work like hell to get the ball off you to score, but no we just gifted possession numerous times in the dying minutes with the manager sitting there looking on.

smileyj1987

rarnes1 wrote: »

Rodgers has to take massive blame for that fúckup

We get it you don't like Rodgers !

ThunbergsAreGo

Disappointed by that, it worries me how may chances we seem to give up

And Pepes got to be saving that

cianisgood

Sahin was the only midfield player who got back! Gerard and shelvey cannot plat in the same midfield together.basic stuff lads!

smileyj1987

smileyj1987 wrote: »

We get it you don't like Rodgers !

Nothing to do with liking the man

He took off a player that was holding on to possession and controlling things and it backfired.

Leiva

smileyj1987 wrote: »

We get it you don't like Rodgers !

Why go there?

It is alright to call him up on something and still like him. You understand that?

Strongbow10

rarnes1 wrote: »

Gerrard played well, had a lovely assist too.

The midfield would be better set up if the manager played the players to their strengths.

Baffled as to what game you were watching if you think Gerrard played well.

He showed a lack of game intelligence tonight in a big way.

Sahin suffers when Gerrard occupys that area of the field aswell.

Gerrard strolling back after we lose possession is simply not acceptable for a central midfielder. Its become a feature this season and needs to be nipped in the bud.

Either he is lazy or else his legs are gone. Either way, he shouldn't be given a free reign as one of the midfield three.

PRAF

Leiva wrote: »

See its a fine line for a manager being good or disappointing.

Rodgers actually done alright tonight, but not learning from giving away a lead (especially with mins to go) is his downfall tonight.
We need to be more classy and cocky and when in the lead make the opposition work like hell to get the ball off you to score, but no we just gifted possession numerous times in the dying minutes with the manager sitting there looking on.

Agree with your identification of the problem. Not sure I'd blame the manager though. We don't have any DMs right now. Closest we have is Allen and he needs a rest so can understand why he didn't play. The blame is collective, team and manager. Need to learn from these mistakes

Francie Barrett

Jayob10 wrote: »

Watch the replay and take a look at Stevie Gerrard strolling back as their midfield bear down on our goal for that equaliser.

If you watch the replay you'll also see a half-assed tackle from Sahin, who then strolls back while the Young Boys midfield are streaming forward. He's supposed to be the deepest-lying midfielder and he wasn't fúcked to even try and make up for his poor tackle.

Of course, it's not fashionable to slate Sahin and it is to slate Gerrard.

Strongbow10

Strongbow10 wrote: »

Baffled as to what game you were watching if you think Gerrard played well.

He showed a lack of game intelligence tonight in a big way.

Sahin suffers when Gerrard occupys that area of the field aswell.

Gerrard strolling back after we lose possession is simply not acceptable for a central midfielder. Its become a feature this season and needs to be nipped in the bud.

Either he is lazy or else his legs are gone. Either way, he shouldn't be given a free reign as one of the midfield three.

His legs are gone. He shouldn't have any defensive responsabilities tbh.

Sahin has been poor so far from Liverpool, lets face it.

Leiva

PRAF wrote: »

Agree with your identification of the problem. Not sure I'd blame the manager though. We don't have any DMs right now. Closest we have is Allen and he needs a rest so can understand why he didn't play. The blame is collective, team and manager. Need to learn from these mistakes

You don't need a WC DM to hold onto possession in the final moments of a game.
You need a strong manager on the side line calming it down and stopping the ego's of others trying to score and losing possession.

ThunbergsAreGo

Leiva wrote: »

You don't need a WC DM to hold onto possession in the final moments of a game.
You need a strong manager on the side line calming it down and stopping the ego's of others trying to score and losing possession.

I fail to understand how players fail to see this for themselves, all the players for all the abuse they get, are top class players.

Why they cant just calm it down and control it ill never know. Also Assaidi has to work a bit harder to get back at him

Ardent

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If you watch the replay you'll also see a half-assed tackle from Sahin, who then strolls back while the Young Boys midfield are streaming forward. He's supposed to be the deepest-lying midfielder and he wasn't fúcked to even try and make up for his poor tackle.

Of course, it's not fashionable to slate Sahin and it is to slate Gerrard.

Agreed. A lot of Sahin fanboys on here. I got slated at the start of the season for suggesting that he might not be world class. He's been a poor signing so far.

Kirby

rarnes1 wrote: »

Rodgers has to take massive blame for that fúckup

Not Gerrard no? No player responsibility, no?

hefferboi

Ardent wrote: »

Agreed. A lot of Sahin fanboys on here. I got slated at the start of the season for suggesting that he might not be world class. He's been a poor signing so far.

He hasn't played in his proper position yet for us. Played very well tonight I thought.

Leiva

naughtb4 wrote: »

I fail to understand how players fail to see this for themselves, all the players for all the abuse they get, are top class players.

Why they cant just calm it down and control it ill never know. Also Assaidi has to work a bit harder to get back at him

I am not saying for a minute that the players are not to blame. They are.

If it was the first time tonight then I would say OK let's learn from that, and the manager will let them know about repeating it.
But it's not the fist time and I could see it coming for a mile away with Rodgers looking on.
Look at the highlights and see the amount of times from open play (and set piece :mad: ) we gave away the ball in the last 5mins.
It's really inexcusable when we already have been through it before.

ThunbergsAreGo

Leiva wrote: »

I am not saying for a minute that the players are not to blame. They are.

If it was the first time tonight then I would say OK let's learn from that, and the manager will let them know about repeating it.
But it's not the fist time and I could see it coming for a mile away with Rodgers looking on.
Look at the highlights and see the amount of times from open play (and set piece :mad: ) we gave away the ball in the last 5mins.
It's really inexcusable when we already have been through it before.

Never said you were, i just fail to understand it.

Its a simple tactic of closing the game down and we failed to do it and got punished. Im beginning to get worried by Rodgers but thats probably a discussionf or the general thread

smileyj1987

rarnes1 wrote: »

Nothing to do with liking the man

He took off a player that was holding on to possession and controlling things and it backfired.

Leiva wrote: »

Why go there?

It is alright to call him up on something and still like him. You understand that?

With the way some people post on here all they seem to do is moan about Rodgers and moan about everything else but yet it is never the players fault . as pointed out Sahin made a half arsed challenge when young boys broke , gerrard didn't even run . At this rate Rodgers may get kitted out and play for us because if your club captain doesn't or won't track back to stop them breaking how do turn things around .

Glico Man

hefferboi wrote: »

He hasn't played in his proper position yet for us. Played very well tonight I thought.

I thought he put in an excellent shift when he was pushed back to essentially a DM role. Was good a breaking up play and keeping the ball moving. Was left too exposed far too often though by his midfield partners.

Nuri Sahin

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If you watch the replay you'll also see a half-assed tackle from Sahin, who then strolls back while the Young Boys midfield are streaming forward. He's supposed to be the deepest-lying midfielder and he wasn't fúcked to even try and make up for his poor tackle.

Of course, it's not fashionable to slate Sahin and it is to slate Gerrard.

He's not a defensive midfielder!

What hefferboi and Aaron said.

Ardent wrote: »

Agreed. A lot of Sahin fanboys on here. I got slated at the start of the season for suggesting that he might not be world class. He's been a poor signing so far.

Based on what?

Leiva

smileyj1987 wrote: »

With the way some people post on here all they seem to do is moan about Rodgers and moan about everything else but yet it is never the players fault . as pointed out Sahin made a half arsed challenge when young boys broke , gerrard didn't even run . At this rate Rodgers may get kitted out and play for us because if your club captain doesn't or won't track back to stop them breaking how do turn things around .

Go back and watch the last 5mins.

Sahin broke down the play on 3 occasions after we had lost possession 10 times to them in the last 5.

If anything he was the only one really trying to see it out whilst those around him gave the ball away.

hefferboi

A lot of people need to realise Gerrard is not world class anymore and makes mistakes. He shouldn't be in our midfield 3 when Lucas is back and especially if Shelvey is there too. Both look to lazy to track back too much of the time and offer zero cover.

mada999

very naive by the liverpool midfield and forwards to not see the game out. Tbh I don't blame Rodgers for this, it's the players responsibility to keep the ball, it's not like it's their first game of football.

Positives for me :

Joe Cole - had a good game and tried hard, unlucky with a couple of chances
Shelvey - very neat on the ball at times, but sometimes loses concentration
Carra - had a solid game
Assaidi - had a good game on the wing and running at players, put in a good shift
Downing - had a good game and got forward at times
Suso - was good when he was on the pitch, tidy and can pick a pass

Negatives :

Gerrard - was sloppy in general play and doesn't track players back
Reina - was dodgy on a couple of crosses
Hendo - was ok, but was at fault for the first goal, didn't bust a gut to get back

Too gung-ho in the last few mins no need for it, close the game out by passing it around, pull opposition around the place and maybe by this get a sneaky goal to finish them off

a mention for Sahin, I dont get all the hype around him, I thought he was average enough to be honest

At times we were very dodgy at playing the ball out from the back, sometimes its better to just get rid of the ballsomething that will come back to haunt us at some stage.

just my 002.cents

Francie Barrett

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

He's not a defensive midfielder!

When did I say he was a defensive midfielder?

Francie Barrett

Leiva wrote: »

Sahin broke down the play on 3 occasions after we had lost possession 10 times to them in the last 5.

If anything he was the only one really trying to see it out whilst those around him gave the ball away.

That's because it was his bloody job tonight!

When it counted for the second Young Boys goal - he went missing, and that's not for the first time this season.

smileyj1987

Leiva wrote: »

Go back and watch the last 5mins.

Sahin broke down the play on 3 occasions after we had lost possession 10 times to them in the last 5.

If anything he was the only one really trying to see it out whilst those around him gave the ball away.

Wasn't Sahin playing in the DM role ? So if he is the furthest midfielder back his job is to do the donkey work and win the ball back . So it is his when the ball is moving near the danger area and he slides in you always stay on your feet the only time to slide is when you know 100% you will win the ball . If he had stayed on his feet he could have slowed down the counter a little bit . So yeah it kind of was his fault . I have already pointed out gerrards mistakes already tonight and he really did sweet F.A.

Leiva

Francie Barrett wrote: »

That's because it was his bloody job tonight!

When it counted for the second Young Boys goal - he went missing, and that's not for the first time this season.

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Wasn't Sahin playing in the DM role ? So if he is the furthest midfielder back his job is to do the donkey work and win the ball back . So it is his when the ball is moving near the danger area and he slides in you always stay on your feet the only time to slide is when you know 100% you will win the ball . If he had stayed on his feet he could have slowed down the counter a little bit . So yeah it kind of was his fault . I have already pointed out gerrards mistakes already tonight and he really did sweet F.A.

Watch the last 5mins and tell me who was (and wasn't ) trying ? Nuri was !

Francie Barrett

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Wasn't Sahin playing in the DM role ? So if he is the furthest midfielder back his job is to do the donkey work and win the ball back . So it is his when the ball is moving near the danger area and he slides in you always stay on your feet the only time to slide is when you know 100% you will win the ball . If he had stayed on his feet he could have slowed down the counter a little bit . So yeah it kind of was his fault . I have already pointed out gerrards mistakes already tonight and he really did sweet F.A.

Great post.

People who watch too much English football seem to think that being a deep lying midfielder simply means you are good at tackling. If Xabi Alonso was still at the club, he would be telling Sahin that he should have stayed on his feet, closed down the space and not allowed himself to be bypassed.

Francie Barrett

Leiva wrote: »

Nuri was !

Watch the goal again, he should have done much better.

PRAF

Leiva wrote: »

I am not saying for a minute that the players are not to blame. They are.

If it was the first time tonight then I would say OK let's learn from that, and the manager will let them know about repeating it.
But it's not the fist time and I could see it coming for a mile away with Rodgers looking on.
Look at the highlights and see the amount of times from open play (and set piece :mad: ) we gave away the ball in the last 5mins.
It's really inexcusable when we already have been through it before.

We need people who know what to do in difficult situations, can calm down the play, know when to be conservative and when to go for the kill, etc. In short, we badly need at least one more leader in that team. Hopefully Lucas is that guy, we need him back soon.

Leiva

PRAF wrote: »

We need people who know what to do in difficult situations, can calm down the play, know when to be conservative and when to go for the kill, etc. In short, we badly need at least one more leader in that team. Hopefully Lucas is that guy, we need him back soon.

Reminded me of this it some reason.

You've got to hold and give
But do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast
But you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
Theres only one way to beat them
Get round the back

Chucky the tree

We need a captain who is sensible and is willing to play smart. Gerrard isn't that type of captain. His freekick at the end. Few mintues to go and 30+ yard outs we should have played it short an kept it short, instead Gerrard balls it over the bar.

PRAF

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Watch the goal again, he should have done much better.

If Allen was on the pitch tonight, we would've won IMO. Rodgers biggest mistake tonight was bringing on Gerrard. Contributed very little and caused more problems than he solved.

Has come on as a sub 3 times this year and we lost two of them and threw away a winning position in the other.

RodgersLFC

Didnt see the game tonight, any standout performers? How did Sahin do?

PRAF

Leiva wrote: »

Reminded me of this it some reason.

You've got to hold and give
But do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast
But you must get to the line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
Theres only one way to beat them
Get round the back

You're forgetting the missing verse in that song:

You've got to play conservative
And do it at the right time
You can be slow or fast
But you must defend your line
They'll always hit you and hurt you
Defend and attack
Theres only one way to beat them
Get Lucas back!

PRAF

Chucky the tree wrote: »

We need a captain who is sensible and is willing to play smart. Gerrard isn't that type of captain. His freekick at the end. Few mintues to go and 30+ yard outs we should have played it short an kept it short, instead Gerrard balls it over the bar.

Better this happened the Europa League than in an important league game or a cup final. Could be a lesson learned for the team. Lets hope it is.

Rodgers was fairly honest in his post match interview:

"2-1 up with three or four minutes to go, you've got to control the game better. You've got to show better game management. That was the only disappointment.

I'm not telling you anything I haven't told the players. We get the chance to shoot at one end and then in the 87th minute we're walking back.

Oussama [Assaidi] has a go at trying to get the ball but then they work their way through to the edge of the box unchallenged. It's a disappointing goal when you analyse it.

That's about management of the game at that stage. You're winning the game, you don't need to commit the bodies forward and leave yourself isolated.

That's something we'll improve on."

hefferboi

RodgersLFC wrote: »

Didnt see the game tonight, any standout performers? How did Sahin do?

Joe Cole man of the match for me.
Assaidi, Sahin, Suarez and Carragher were all good too.

Francie Barrett

PRAF wrote: »

If Allen was on the pitch tonight, we would've won IMO. Rodgers biggest mistake tonight was bringing on Gerrard. Contributed very little and caused more problems than he solved.

Has come on as a sub 3 times this year and we lost two of them and threw away a winning position in the other.

I thanked your post, then I changed my mind :eek:

I think that Rodgers was perfectly well within his right to have Gerrard on the pitch while we were chasing the win. Also, I think Gerrard actually had a decent enough game, he did after all set up our second. I think the mistake Rodgers made was that once we did score and take the lead, he replaced Cole with Sterling. The correct decision should have been to leave Shelvey upfront with Assaidi and Suarez to either side, have Gerrard remain as the attacking midfielder and then put Allen in next to Sahin to try and get more control of the game.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

Morzadec

Game management - exactly what we were saying earlier.

At least Rodgers sees it. Now to fix it.

Although his sub of Sterling for Cole could perhaps be question. Enrique might've been a better option here

PRAF

Some really good performances there tonight (especially and most surprisingly Joe Cole). However, very frustrating in the end. Mistakes made all around but probably best not to over analyse. A win at Swansea would be nice though, just to get that slighly sick feeling from tonight out of my system!

Francie Barrett

Morzadec wrote: »

Game management - exactly what we were saying earlier.

At least Rodgers sees it. Now to fix it.

Although his sub of Sterling for Cole could perhaps be question. Enrique might've been a better option here

Yep, what I was thinking.

This does seem to be one criticism I have with Rodgers. He does quite often seem very reluctant to go more defensive if we're holding onto a lead. I can understand his reluctance in fairness - most fans go bananas when they see their team do this.

PRAF

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Yep, what I was thinking.

This does seem to be one criticism I have with Rodgers. He does quite often seem very reluctant to go more defensive if we're holding onto a lead. I can understand his reluctance in fairness - most fans go bananas when they see their team do this.

I don't think going defensive is the solution to be honest. A lot of teams that drop too deep end up conceeding because they invite the opposition onto them. The way to do it is to play conservatively, hold onto the ball, not over commit forward but not drop too deep either. We haven't had that kind of footballing know how in the team since Xabi and Masch left us.

Lucas and Allen could be the answer though.

Nuri Sahin

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Great post.

People who watch too much English football seem to think that being a deep lying midfielder simply means you are good at tackling. If Xabi Alonso was still at the club, he would be telling Sahin that he should have stayed on his feet, closed down the space and not allowed himself to be bypassed.

Were Xabi and Lucas always good defensively? No. They learned their role over a period of time, years according to themselves.

Nuri was thrown in into the deep end tonight and did an admirable job considering that. Covering for Gerrard and Shelvey would have tested Lucas patience for however long even.

smileyj1987

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Were Xabi and Lucas always good defensively? No. They learned their role over a period of time, years according to themselves.

Nuri was thrown in into the deep end tonight and did an admirable job considering that. Covering for Gerrard and Shelvey would have tested Lucas patience for however long even.

Finally you can see he is not a god like player :eek: ( joke ) . He did do a good job tonight but I will always call it like I see it and he did make a bad mistake but mistakes happen . I'm glad he made the mistake in a Europa league game rather then a premier league one because he can learn from his mistake and the whole squad can aswell . Like I have already said how little gerrard did sweet f . a and left him on his own . I would say Brendan also learned a few things tonight aswell .
I think right now I'm more sick of people using anything to hop on Rodgers he deserves a bit more respect then he is currently getting because it feels like some of our support will hop on him when a player makes a mistake .

Nuri Sahin

smileyj1987 wrote: »

Finally you can see he is not a god like player :eek: ( joke ) . He did do a good job tonight but I will always call it like I see it and he did make a bad mistake but mistakes happen . I'm glad he made the mistake in a Europa league game rather then a premier league one because he can learn from his mistake and the whole squad can aswell . Like I have already said how little gerrard did sweet f . a and left him on his own . I would say Brendan also learned a few things tonight aswell .
I think right now I'm more sick of people using anything to hop on Rodgers he deserves a bit more respect then he is currently getting because it feels like some of our support will hop on him when a player makes a mistake .

Gerrard not tracking back in the 82nd(?) minute had me yelling at the screen. When we were hit on the counter, you could see Nuri was calling Gerrard back to cover his right hand side as he went to help Downing out Gerrard was instead more or less standing still in the center circle watching the play.

smileyj1987

Nuri Sahin wrote: »

Gerrard not tracking back in the 82nd(?) minute had me yelling at the screen. When we were hit on the counter, you could see Nuri was calling Gerrard back to cover his right hand side as he went to help Downing out Gerrard was instead more or less standing still in the center circle watching the play.

That is all very valid and hope Brendan shows Stevie the tape and tells him that if he wants to be the Captain that crap is not on . You lead by example if it means chasing down a dead ball for 30 yards do it . If the senior players show laziness it will bed in with the rest of the squad and you have the likes of Sahin tonight we made that slide thinking why should I work my h*** off if the skipper won't do it .
I think you have actually read my posts and can see why I kind of went abit nuts earlier on . I think Rodgers made the right calls tonight he sent out gerrard , sterling and suarez , which makes me believe he wanted to kill out the group stages tonight and not in 2 weeks time . Which would then help him give the fringe players 90 mins .