Dark horse for 2013

RoscommonTom

beggars_bush wrote: »

Roscommon minors and under 21s have been beating Mayo, Galway and Sligo teams for the past few years.
Same at club level.
It has to translate to senior level at some stage

Here here

Fr Tod Umptious

beggars_bush wrote: »

Roscommon minors and under 21s have been beating Mayo, Galway and Sligo teams for the past few years.
Same at club level.
It has to translate to senior level at some stage

Well unless they get organised in the way that the likes of Donegal, Mayo, Dublin etc have over three past few years then they have no chance of translating the under age success into senior success.

I'm not sure Evans can do that for them

lala88

Alphonso wrote: »

What did Wicklow do that showed much improvement under O'Dwyer? They never even got out of Div 4 in the league. As for his team with Laois, he had a very successful bunch of underrage players to work with but in the weakest era possibly ever for Leinster football he still only won one Leinster title. And they did nothing in the league.
Alot of the stuff about O'Dwyer is myth. HIs time with Kildare saw them improve alot on where they were, but it still took them SEVEN years just to win a Leinster. In all he only managed two Leinster titles with them. Much more than any era since the 60s or 50s at least, but not exactly a revolution or unqualified success for such a legendary figure in the game.

Dark horse? Possibly Longford to some extent. Laois aren't really a dark horse after last summer. Maybe Tipp in football and Dublin in hurling. Dark horses to win the trophies? Kerry in football, Dublin in hurling.

Won there first game ever in Croke Park. Had there longest championship run ever. Won there first national silverware. Not bad in my eyes

Syferus

Clareman wrote: »

I think 1 of the problems with football that there are so many "known" good teams there now, to pick a dark horse you've to disregard most teams in Ulster, Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Mayo, after that you don't have many teams left.

?

I think everyone in Ulster besides Donegal is a dark horse right now, none of the others are All-Ireland contenders or even fancied to beat any of the top five - Kerry, a poor Kerry team by their own standards, railroaded Ulster's second best team in the qualifiers this year.

I'd also say even Kerry could be considered dark horses next year, even if the bookies keep them afloat in the odds. A seriously ageing panel with little to no retirees, a new and extremely young manager and younger guys not yet showing themselves to be up to replacing the people already there for years.

I think Kerry winning the AI in 2013 would be a remarkable achievement, more so than any of the other top five, Mayo included.

the kelt

Syferus wrote: »

?

I think everyone in Ulster besides Donegal is a dark horse right now, none of the others are All-Ireland contenders or even fancied to beat any of the top five - Kerry, a poor Kerry team by their own standards, railroaded Ulster's second best team in the qualifiers this year.

I'd also say even Kerry could be considered dark horses next year, even if the bookies keep them afloat in the odds. A seriously ageing panel with little to no retirees, a new and extremely young manager and younger guys not yet showing themselves to be up to replacing the people already there for years.

I think Kerry winning the AI in 2013 would be a remarkable achievement, more so than any of the other top five, Mayo included.

I think of all the Northern teams Tyrone have to be considered again. They have still been bringing very good underage teams through over the years but for the last few summers they have suffered injuries at key times to key players while also getting some tough draws.

In football ye might see Tipperary start to make a few waves in 2013 and are a coming team while Galway might start to make a comeback.

Its hard to see a dark horse in hurling really, most teams are well established at this stage.

Fr Tod Umptious

the kelt wrote: »

I think of all the Northern teams Tyrone have to be considered again. They have still been bringing very good underage teams through over the years but for the last few summers they have suffered injuries at key times to key players while also getting some tough draws.

In football ye might see Tipperary start to make a few waves in 2013 and are a coming team while Galway might start to make a comeback.

Its hard to see a dark horse in hurling really, most teams are well established at this stage.

Agree with you about Tyrone, they will meet Donegal early in Ulster and it will be interesting to see if Donegal can bring last years intensity to that game, if not Tyrone will win Ulster
I do not think they will be All Ireland contenders.

Tipp have a tough start against Kerry (again) they will do well in that game but will not win it, how they progress after that depends on the qualifier draw but I would not be surprised if they appeared in the quarter finals.

It's a fairly weak football tournamnet in 2013 if you ask me, I can see the winners coming from Mayo, Cork or Dublin, and possibly Donegal (if they ratain the hunger and intensity and if McGuinness's move to Celtic does not upset their program too much).

cat in the sack

Syferus wrote: »

?

I think everyone in Ulster besides Donegal is a dark horse right now, none of the others are All-Ireland contenders or even fancied to beat any of the top five - Kerry, a poor Kerry team by their own standards, railroaded Ulster's second best team in the qualifiers this year.

I'd also say even Kerry could be considered dark horses next year, even if the bookies keep them afloat in the odds. A seriously ageing panel with little to no retirees, a new and extremely young manager and younger guys not yet showing themselves to be up to replacing the people already there for years.

I think Kerry winning the AI in 2013 would be a remarkable achievement, more so than any of the other top five, Mayo included.

kerry winning the all ireland in 2013 would be a remarkable achievement, never heard such sh.t, kerry have been there over the last 128 years and are always there or there abouts.

as for mayo they won't win one if its kerry they have to play in the final:D or anyother team for that matter.

Fr Tod Umptious

cat in the sack wrote: »

kerry winning the all ireland in 2013 would be a remarkable achievement, never heard such sh.t, kerry have been there over the last 128 years and are always there or there abouts.

as for mayo they won't win one if its kerry they have to play in the final:D or anyother team for that matter.

Syferus is correct here.

Kerry have been on the down-swing for a number of years now and there is nothing to suggest that the panel fow 2013 will be any better than the panel for 2012

Their new manager is very recently retired from the great teams of the '00s and is still very close to the likes of the O' Shea's, Galvin, O' Mahoney etc.

Kerry cannot continue to rely on them to see them through games and it has yet to be seen if there are good younger lads to take their places.
Of the newer players that featured last year only O' Donoughe stood out.

They have a slightly easier draw this year in the sense that they will most likely play Cork in Killarney for the Munster championship, which is better than facing Cork in Cork at the semi-final stage.

I would be very very surprised if they make a All Ireland final with what they have.

aidan24326

beggars_bush wrote: »

Roscommon minors and under 21s have been beating Mayo, Galway and Sligo teams for the past few years.
Same at club level.
It has to translate to senior level at some stage

Underage success doesn't always translate to senior though. And St.Brigid's excellence isn't necessarily a reflection of Roscommon football in general as they're quite a bit ahead of any other team in the county, and indeed in the province. Maybe just stick yellow jerseys on them and call them Roscommon, I reckon they'd give most county teams a game and would probably beat a few of them.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Syferus is correct here.

Kerry have been on the down-swing for a number of years now and there is nothing to suggest that the panel fow 2013 will be any better than the panel for 2012.

Don't do it Tod, don't goad the monster! Kerry need to rebuild alright but they won't be gone for long you can be assured of that. There is only one certainty in gaelic football and that is that Kerry will generally be knocking around at the business end of the championship. The only slight concern for Kerry is that their underage teams in recent years have been quite poor for the most part and it's hard to see where the next Gooch or the next Tommy Walsh is going to come from.

Not easy to replace fellas like Darragh O'se, Tom O'Sullivan etc, and they'll lose the likes of Cooper and Galvin and O'Mahony in the next couple of years also.

Fr Tod Umptious

aidan24326 wrote: »

Don't do it Tod, don't goad the monster! Kerry need to rebuild alright but they won't be gone for long you can be assured of that. There is only one certainty in gaelic football and that is that Kerry will generally be knocking around at the business end of the championship. The only slight concern for Kerry is that their underage teams in recent years have been quite poor for the most part and it's hard to see where the next Gooch or the next Tommy Walsh is going to come from.

Not easy to replace fellas like Darragh O'se, Tom O'Sullivan etc, and they'll lose the likes of Cooper and Galvin and O'Mahony in the next couple of years also.

Well I have been goading the monster for a few years now and without blowing my own trumpet I was banging on about how their season would end up since April.

And I will still goad the monster as I cannot see how the 2013 panel will be much of an improvement on the 2012.
People mention how they had a good league last year with the younger squad, but I noticed v Mayo in Tralee they had to bring on the big guns at half time to erase a 8 pt deficit and salvage a draw.
Similar scenarios may have played out , to a lesser extent, in other league games, i.e the introduction of some senior players to bale out the young guys.

It will be interesting to see how much actual re-building they may do under Fitzmaurice too.
As I said earlier he is very close to the old guard and may not be willing to drop them wholesale, which may be needed.
Their under-age teams have been poor for a number of years, but there must be club players out there that are talented enough to be given a go, it will be interesting to see what level of scouting work Fitzmaurice will do there.

It's also worth noting that even with the departure of Jack, Donie Buckley went to Mayo rather than returning to Kerry, could it be that the change of manager meant no change at all in his eyes ?

manofwisdom

Odds are spot on Kerry,Donegal,Cork,Dublin are the contenders others are dark horses. Mayo currently quoted at 11-1 won't win it they had enough chances over the years and aren't getting any closer but they are good at reaching finals. McGeeney has taken Kildare as far as they can go and Tyrone might have decent run if they have better luck with injuries.

Always_Running

aidan24326 wrote: »

Underage success doesn't always translate to senior though. And St.Brigid's excellence isn't necessarily a reflection of Roscommon football in general as they're quite a bit ahead of any other team in the county, and indeed in the province. Maybe just stick yellow jerseys on them and call them Roscommon, I reckon they'd give most county teams a game and would probably beat a few of them.

It doesn't take a look at Galway however others like Cork,Dublin,Tyrone,Kerry have. Before 2006 Roscommon were doing little of note at underage level the last 6 years they have been strong. If at least 6 of the Roscommon team is St Brigids players and John Evans has them playing as a team who knows what might happen?

DARK-KNIGHT

Football dark horses - Kildare

Hurling dark horses - Kildare

Rose tinted glasses off Galway football

Dublin hurling

Syferus

Always_Running wrote: »

It doesn't take a look at Galway however others like Cork,Dublin,Tyrone,Kerry have. Before 2006 Roscommon were doing little of note at underage level the last 6 years they have been strong. If at least 6 of the Roscommon team is St Brigids players and John Evans has them playing as a team who knows what might happen?

Brigids' success has been back-boned by a run of near-complete domination at underage in the county, they really have built players from age 12 up and when you mix once-in-a-generation players like Frankie and Senan you're always going to be set up for good things. Other clubs like Clann, Pearses, Ros Gaels, St. Croan's, Strokestown and Boyle have started to adopt Brigids' focus on underage development and that at the basic level has been what's been driving the slew of underage Connacht titles at the u16, minor and u21 levels.

Indeed Brigids' hardest game of the year came against Pearses in the county final.

Overall in the county this year was a massive success, minor, u21 and club Connacht titles in football, AI finals at u21 football and minor b hurling and of course the u21 b All-Ireland. Roscommon CBS have made major noise at the colleges A level too, beating Jarlath's only last week.

We have built the structures around the senior panel to succeed but we've yet to translate the winning formula to that level. I've heard John Evans has been engaging over 100 players in trials so clearly he's taking real stock of the talent in the county. I think we're closer than most counties at our level to being a force but it will take incredible dedication from the players to reach their potential at senior level.

PTH2009

I think the 2013 Hurling Championship will be the best in years.

Munster will be hard to win i think Waterford will be fall behind a lot. I can see A Clare vs Limerick final next year.

Kilkenny will go into the Leinster Championship at the Quarter final stage unusual for them but will be a force to be rekond with. Kilkenny vs Galway final in 2013.

My predictions

All Ireland Quarter finals 2013
Galway (Leinster Runners Up) vs Tippeary (Quilfer winners)
Limerick (Munster Runners Up) vs Cork (Quilfer winner)

All Ireland Semi Finals
Kilkenny (Leinster Champions) vs Cork
Clare (Munster Champions) vs Tippeary

All Ireland Final
Kilkenny vs Tippeary- Kilkenny again to win

Fr Tod Umptious

manofwisdom wrote: »

Odds are spot on Kerry,Donegal,Cork,Dublin are the contenders others are dark horses. Mayo currently quoted at 11-1 won't win it they had enough chances over the years and aren't getting any closer but they are good at reaching finals. McGeeney has taken Kildare as far as they can go and Tyrone might have decent run if they have better luck with injuries.

I disagree that the odds are spot on.

From Paddy Power

Donegal 10/3 - very poor price for a team trying to do back to back All Ireland's, It's only been don e once in 23 years and that was by a very good Kerry team.
It has been seen in the past that teams who win All Ireland for the first time in a long time find it hard to reach the same intensity and hunger levels as the previous year, combine this with the fact that Donegal have to play Tyrone in the their first game and the fact that McGuinness is spending half his time in Scotland it's hard to see them going back to back, but if they do fair play to them

Cork - 7/2 - Fairly accurate price, but it will be hard to know what is going on in Cork. I thought they would win it this year, seeing as their team was back to full strength and they should have been over the All Ireland winning hangover, but like us all they scummed to Donegal. If they have any fight left in them they will be contenders

Kerry 4/1 - Too short if you ask me. But there will always be money for Kerry based on pedigree and plenty of punters out there believe that 'Kerry will be there or there about'. But with their current squad it's very unlikely

Dublin 4/1 - A bit like Kerry there will always be money for Dublin because of the population size and the numbers that will just bet on them for no reason other than they are Dublin. But here 4/1 is a decent price, it will be interesting if they regain any hunger under a new boss and how Alan Brogan will feature if he is back fit,

Mayo 11/1 - Bargain of the night. A great price for a team that look to be building their way to an All Ireland, true they get to finals and loose them but Horan has done a good job and with a fully fit squad they will be hard to beat. Tough start v Galway in Galway though, though

Defiler Of The Coffin

Football-wise if I had to pick one dark horse out of every province I would probably go for:

Connacht: Roscommon
Ulster: Tyrone
Leinster: Laois
Munster: Tipperary

It's hard to see past Cork or Kerry for Munster, it's been a long time since Clare done the business and no other team really look like taking them down. Perhaps Tipperary can go one farther than they did last year but I can't see their underage success translating to the senior level just yet.

There has been a variety of winners in Connacht over the last few years but I think this one is Mayo's to lose, Roscommon haven't progressed at all from 2010 even though they've been quite strong in the underage competitions. Maybe this year could be the start of the upswing. Otherwise Galway haven't effectively replaced the old guard at all and there is still a lot of rebuilding to be done there.

Ulster I can see Tyrone winning this one although the winners of Down/Derry will be bubbling under. Not discounting Donegal of course but as it has been said already it will be interesting to see if they can sustain the same intensity as last year with McGuinness back and forth over to Glasgow.

Leinster I think will be very interesting this year, you've got Laois and Westmeath looking to improve on their decent championship runs last year (Westmeath should have beaten Kerry) along with the usual contenders of Kildare and Meath. Dublin I think will be vulnerable this year, Leinster title could easily go to one of the perceived weaker counties.

All that being said I think you can count on 3 of the usual counties remaining in the last four with one of the dark horses remaining. Wouldn't be at all surprised if it was Laois!

Peanut Butter Jelly

Leitrim for the double. Simple as that.

Ah no, in all honesty I'd say Galway and Tipp will do well in the hurling, and as for the football, can't see Donegal getting the 2-in-a-row. Maybe Kerry or Dublin.

blue note

My views on the hurling:

KK: Will win quite comfortably. A couple of their players underperformed last year, some of the younger lads are coming good. I don’t think there will be any replays, they’ll win Leinster and the All Ireland without the result of any match in doubt with 5 minutes to spare.

Offaly: More of the same. They often seem to get slightly unlucky draws – instead of getting a few teams they could beat, they end up straight against Cork in the qualifiers. They have a small chance of taking a scalp against a good team.

Wexford: Same as Offaly essentially. I actually rate them slightly weaker to be fair.

Galway: they won’t be as strong as last year. I still don’t believe they have enough quality and played a bit above themselves in 2012. We might see a quarter final exit next year.

Dublin: They probably killed off all hype last year and that might actually stand to them this year. Playing in Division 2 will prevent any additional hype as well. I’d say they’ll be much stronger and will make the quarters, and could even sneak into the semi final.

Rest of Leinster: Doesn’t matter.

Tipp: I still don’t expect them to get their act together. They’ll still have plenty to beat most teams, but I don’t see them challenging KK.

Cork: They’re Cork, they have a decent team. I think they’ll win Munster and get to the final this year.

Waterford: I don’t expect any great change from last year, maybe a slight deterioration. We could lose to half a dozen teams or beat them. I’d say quarters again. Lots of our games will be 50/50 and I reckon we'll lose one of them before a semi final. We could go out in the qualifiers which wouldn’t be a massive underachievement.

Limerick: Decent team. Like Waterford they’ll probably do ok. They could easily get to a quarter. But they’re not going to do anything too interesting.

Clare: Everyone’s dark horses and I’d tend to agree. My one problem with them is they need a great manager – Davy is holding them back. I think they might get a bit of momentum going and get to a semi. It would be great for hurling, I’d say their fans will flock back to a promising team.

flogging a dead horse

So Shefflin has injured his ankle, however serious it is, who knows?
Could this injury hearld the retirment from inter-county hurling, leaving himself with 9 Celtic Crosses??
This time next year minus inter-county hurling, he may at the ripe age of 33 feel club hurling is enough for him?? One more all-Ireland with the club on St.Patricks day??

dirtyden

flogging a dead horse wrote: »

So Shefflin has injured his ankle, however serious it is, who knows?
Could this injury hearld the retirment from inter-county hurling, leaving himself with 9 Celtic Crosses??
This time next year minus inter-county hurling, he may at the ripe age of 33 feel club hurling is enough for him?? One more all-Ireland with the club on St.Patricks day??

He wont be hurling for his club in an all ireland st patricks day next year anyhow.

manofwisdom

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I disagree that the odds are spot on.

From Paddy Power

Donegal 10/3 - very poor price for a team trying to do back to back All Ireland's, It's only been don e once in 23 years and that was by a very good Kerry team.
It has been seen in the past that teams who win All Ireland for the first time in a long time find it hard to reach the same intensity and hunger levels as the previous year, combine this with the fact that Donegal have to play Tyrone in the their first game and the fact that McGuinness is spending half his time in Scotland it's hard to see them going back to back, but if they do fair play to them

Cork - 7/2 - Fairly accurate price, but it will be hard to know what is going on in Cork. I thought they would win it this year, seeing as their team was back to full strength and they should have been over the All Ireland winning hangover, but like us all they scummed to Donegal. If they have any fight left in them they will be contenders

Kerry 4/1 - Too short if you ask me. But there will always be money for Kerry based on pedigree and plenty of punters out there believe that 'Kerry will be there or there about'. But with their current squad it's very unlikely

Dublin 4/1 - A bit like Kerry there will always be money for Dublin because of the population size and the numbers that will just bet on them for no reason other than they are Dublin. But here 4/1 is a decent price, it will be interesting if they regain any hunger under a new boss and how Alan Brogan will feature if he is back fit,

Mayo 11/1 - Bargain of the night. A great price for a team that look to be building their way to an All Ireland, true they get to finals and loose them but Horan has done a good job and with a fully fit squad they will be hard to beat. Tough start v Galway in Galway though, though

11/1 is probably bargain price if you want to place a each way bet on Mayo. You could give reasons (like above) why the top 4 may slip up but one of them should win Sam next year.

robbiezero

flogging a dead horse wrote: »

So Shefflin has injured his ankle, however serious it is, who knows?
Could this injury hearld the retirment from inter-county hurling, leaving himself with 9 Celtic Crosses??
This time next year minus inter-county hurling, he may at the ripe age of 33 feel club hurling is enough for him?? One more all-Ireland with the club on St.Patricks day??

I hope he doesn't retire. I want him on the field next year when Tipp beat them.

Lord Trollington

klairondavis wrote: »

You do realise the level Kildare were at when O'Dwyer took over? He totally turned our fortunes around. Five Leinster Final appearances, two titles, an All-Ireland Final appearance and a League Final appearance was a great return from his two spells in charge especially considering that Dublin were so strong in the early 90s and Meath had such a good team in the latter half of the decade. The late Dermot Earley couldn't get a win with the same group of players when he was Kildare manager in 1995 and 1996. Compare Kildare's record in the 70s and 80s when we were truly pathetic and the likes of Tompkins and Fahy couldn't wait to move on. For all the plaudits that the current manager receives from the national media, he hasn't got Kildare to anywhere near the level they were at under O'Dwyer.

Agree to a certain extent. O'Dwyer's achievements cannot be questioned.
But Kildare during his reign had the best bunch of players to ever play the game in Kildare at his disposal. This backed up by the fact that they managed to win 2 minor Leinster titles in 1987 and 1991. Haven't won one minor title since.

In fact they since went on a run in recent times by not winning a championship game at minor level for 5 years.

McGeeney has his flaws that there can be no doubt about. But what he has done with this Kildare bunch of players has been fantastic. Starting from a very low base he has taken them to Division 2 title, thus reaching division 1. He has reached a Leinster final, An All Ireland Semi Final and remains unbreaten in the All Ireland Qualifers reaching the last 8 every year he has been in charge.

robbiezero

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Agree to a certain extent. O'Dwyer's achievements cannot be questioned.
But Kildare during his reign had the best bunch of players to ever play the game in Kildare at his disposal. This backed up by the fact that they managed to win 2 minor Leinster titles in 1987 and 1991. Haven't won one minor title since.

In fact they since went on a run in recent times by not winning a championship game at minor level for 5 years.

McGeeney has his flaws that there can be no doubt about. But what he has done with this Kildare bunch of players has been fantastic. Starting from a very low base he has taken them to Division 2 title, thus reaching division 1. He has reached a Leinster final, An All Ireland Semi Final and remains unbreaten in the All Ireland Qualifers reaching the last 8 every year he has been in charge.

Fantastic is over-egging it. What Jimmy McGuinness has achieved was fantastic. McGeeneys achievements have been reasonably good, nothing more and he has not matched what O Dwyer achieved with Kildare.

Tombo2001

The only potential dark horse I can see is Limerick in the Hurling.

I wouldnt really call Longford or Laois or whoever it is getting to a Leinster Final as being a "dark horse"......its the all-ireland we are talking about here.

The truth is there are very few dark horses ever in Football......in the past 5 years, the only team that got to a final where at the start of the year they werent tipped at all was Down in 2010.

Tombo2001

manofwisdom wrote: »

Odds are spot on Kerry,Donegal,Cork,Dublin are the contenders others are dark horses. Mayo currently quoted at 11-1 won't win it they had enough chances over the years and aren't getting any closer but they are good at reaching finals. McGeeney has taken Kildare as far as they can go and Tyrone might have decent run if they have better luck with injuries.

But at the same time you couldnt call Mayo a dark horse when they were in the final 3 months ago.

Tombo2001

Tipp to make the football final. There's a dark horse.

Lord Trollington

robbiezero wrote: »

Fantastic is over-egging it. What Jimmy McGuinness has achieved was fantastic. McGeeneys achievements have been reasonably good, nothing more and he has not matched what O Dwyer achieved with Kildare.

Obviously he has not matched what O'Dwyer did with Kildare. But in saying that he does not have the same quality of player at his disposal and he has not been in charge foe the same length. Remember he managed Kildare for 2 stints :

1990-1994 ( 5 Seasons) 1997 - 2002 (6 Season). 11 Seasons in Total.

2013 Will be McGeeney's 6th Season at the helm. Now in his 5 seasons he has done remarkably well with Kildare. Division 2 Title, 5 last 8 appearances , 1 Semi Final, 1 Leinster Final.

You have to remember Kildare's footballing heritage, or lack of. I'm a Kildare man. But I'm a realist. I look at Kildare fans in May/June/July and wonder where they get their blind optimism and expectation from.

2 Leinster Titles in almost 60 years. No All Ireland in over 80 years.
Call me settling for mediocrity but I remember a time when Kildare struggled against minnows in a footballing sense. I'm happy at the moment to be in the mix and extremely competitive most of the time.

lala88

Tombo2001 wrote: »

The only potential dark horse I can see is Limerick in the Hurling.

I wouldnt really call Longford or Laois or whoever it is getting to a Leinster Final as being a "dark horse"......its the all-ireland we are talking about here.

The truth is there are very few dark horses ever in Football......in the past 5 years, the only team that got to a final where at the start of the year they werent tipped at all was Down in 2010.

Based on that then Limerick cant be considered a dark house. Really there not going to be any where near winning Munster let alone an All Ireland

robbiezero

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Obviously he has not matched what O'Dwyer did with Kildare. But in saying that he does not have the same quality of player at his disposal and he has not been in charge foe the same length. Remember he managed Kildare for 2 stints :

1990-1994 ( 5 Seasons) 1997 - 2002 (6 Season). 11 Seasons in Total.

2013 Will be McGeeney's 6th Season at the helm. Now in his 5 seasons he has done remarkably well with Kildare. Division 2 Title, 5 last 8 appearances , 1 Semi Final, 1 Leinster Final.

You have to remember Kildare's footballing heritage, or lack of. I'm a Kildare man. But I'm a realist. I look at Kildare fans in May/June/July and wonder where they get their blind optimism and expectation from.

2 Leinster Titles in almost 60 years. No All Ireland in over 80 years.
Call me settling for mediocrity but I remember a time when Kildare struggled against minnows in a footballing sense. I'm happy at the moment to be in the mix and extremely competitive most of the time.

He has done well. Probably unlucky in that he has not had the one or two really top class forwards that every team needs in order to win titles. When you look at all the All-Ireland winners recently (last 2 decades), Kerry, Tyrone, Armagh, Dublin, Cork, Donegal, they have all had "a few forwards of a generation", which unfortunately Kildare have not really had, other than maybe Johnny Doyle.

flogging a dead horse

dirtyden wrote: »

He wont be hurling for his club in an all ireland st patricks day next year anyhow.

Ballyhale Shamrocks v ????
17th of March 2014,
Just to clarify

If he is only hurling with club, then Ballyhale might go on to win back to back?
If it's a serious injury, he'll have to make a big decision in the new year.

manofwisdom

Tombo2001 wrote: »

But at the same time you couldnt call Mayo a dark horse when they were in the final 3 months ago.

Odds would be shorter than 11/1 if they weren't darkhorses the punters don't have confidence in them. The hope within Mayo is to not fall back after reaching All Ireland final like Down did in 2010 or they did themselves in 2006.