You are god

angelman121

There is not -a -god as in a separate or individual being or entity, however there is an undeniable energy called life that is sharing itself with all (sharing itself with itself). This life energy ( who's source is still a mistery to science) enables all things to be, it is part of every life form, it makes up the space inbetween the life forms(we travel to space looking for signs of life on other planets we dont see the space and the planets themselves as life) every life form has to soak in this energy in order to live and so not only is this energy all encompasing it is also within. The thing that is called god is just energy, as humans we can and do feel, and sense this energy every moment but we dont attribute it to god or source we take it for granted, however if you open your mind to you being part of this energy and experience its infinite nature (outside has no end and you are breathing the outside energy into you making you one) you can move beyond your human limitations of separate beings into the limitless energy of life itself, there you will find that life energy/source/god is a feeling, its love loving itself, peace being peaceful, joy rejoicing, gratitude being grateful,light shining.You can only do and feel this for yourself as all feelings come from within and cannot be shared with another ,with one excepition and that is the feeling of life sharing itself with life, you are not separate from god/source/life you are or can be if you so choose- god

padma

As nice as what you are saying sounds, from my own experience and understanding it doesn't compute fully with the real truth. For sure we are Children of God/Divine Source. Problem is WE have separated ourselves from Divine Source, hence we are incarnate beings within the existence. A gift from the Divine Source to help us to be free from separation. The Divine Source is the Source of all Love joy and Happiness, we can connect through our Heart to Divine Source and the ultimate goal of every being is to Return to Divine Source this includes angels, ascended masters etc. Any being who is not within the Kingdom of Divine Source.

The Kingdom of Divine Source is wherever the Divine Source is, when we return to the Divine Source we enter the kingdom, we do not become the Divine Source, only we become a part of the Divine Source.

In the Bible there's the story of the garden of Eden, One of the temptations given to Adam is the idea that he can become God by eating from the tree of knowledge, it was this very birth of desire to be God or even more powerful than God that started the downfall of man.

The beings who came from God directly to help man realize truth Jesus, Krishna etc were parts of God ie, children of God/Divine Source. No-where in the Holy books do Krishna or Jesus say directly that they are God, because they know and realize God/Divine Source is the Creator and they are the created who belong to the Divine Source and their Love for the father/Creator/Divine Source/God is complete.

You and me we are not God, yet we have the Spark of Divine within us and yes it is Love that binds us together though we do need to be careful gently about what this truly means, it means we are the Children of God who have separation and Limitations and our job on Earth is to help one another to Open our Hearts directly to True Source/Divine Source, not to angel, ascended Masters or any other being only to the Father. Then we come to full realization and understanding of who we truly are (Children of True Source).

angelman121

padma wrote: »

As nice as what you are saying sounds, from my own experience and understanding it doesn't compute fully with the real truth. For sure we are Children of God/Divine Source. Problem is WE have separated ourselves from Divine Source, hence we are incarnate beings within the existence. A gift from the Divine Source to help us to be free from separation. The Divine Source is the Source of all Love joy and Happiness, we can connect through our Heart to Divine Source and the ultimate goal of every being is to Return to Divine Source this includes angels, ascended masters etc. Any being who is not within the Kingdom of Divine Source.

The Kingdom of Divine Source is wherever the Divine Source is, when we return to the Divine Source we enter the kingdom, we do not become the Divine Source, only we become a part of the Divine Source.

In the Bible there's the story of the garden of Eden, One of the temptations given to Adam is the idea that he can become God by eating from the tree of knowledge, it was this very birth of desire to be God or even more powerful than God that started the downfall of man.

The beings who came from God directly to help man realize truth Jesus, Krishna etc were parts of God ie, children of God/Divine Source. No-where in the Holy books do Krishna or Jesus say directly that they are God, because they know and realize God/Divine Source is the Creator and they are the created who belong to the Divine Source and their Love for the father/Creator/Divine Source/God is complete.

You and me we are not God, yet we have the Spark of Divine within us and yes it is Love that binds us together though we do need to be careful gently about what this truly means, it means we are the Children of God who have separation and Limitations and our job on Earth is to help one another to Open our Hearts directly to True Source/Divine Source, not to angel, ascended Masters or any other being only to the Father. Then we come to full realization and understanding of who we truly are (Children of True Source).

I Am treading on thin ice here, don't do the holy book stuff, I'm more into NOW and true experience of truth. But did someone not teach "the father and I are one"

I would also say that while you say "WE" it is only you or "I" that returns to what you call "The Kingdom" and as long as you hold the belief (as you clearly do) that "we are the children of god" which is the belief in separation you never will enter "The Kingdom". If and when the belief in separation is removed one finds " I have never left the Kingdom/source" , and experiences this NOW

WilliamMelmoth

If and when the belief in separation is removed one finds " I have never left the Kingdom/source" , and experiences this NOW

Not that I am agreeing with any of Padma's commets, but your quote above sounds like an attempt to merge with the objective universe, that being a conceptual impossibility if one is already identical with that universal state of being, no?

Will

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Not that I am agreeing with any of Padma's commets, but your quote above sounds like an attempt to merge with the objective universe, that being a conceptual impossibility if one is already identical with that universal state of being, no?

Will

Totally agree with you, however if a belief in separation has been created, entertained and maintained, this becomes a reality for the divided mind that created it, but not for he undivided mind which remains is it is always, it's rather like closing your eyes and saying the the sun is not shining, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's truth. It's the "thought of separation" that's the conceptual impossibility as there is nowhere to go to be separate from the objective universe, it being ALL.

WilliamMelmoth

Totally agree with you, however if a belief in separation has been created, entertained and maintained, this becomes a reality for the divided mind that created it, but not for he undivided mind which remains is it is always, it's rather like closing your eyes and saying the the sun is not shining, just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's truth. It's the "thought of separation" that's the conceptual impossibility as there is nowhere to go to be separate from the objective universe, it being ALL.

Yes, to my knowledge this is the goal of all conventional religions which views man as estranged from the objective universe [OU]. It is the desire to become one with the OU , to blend with it, to harmonise with it. This is a very natural approach although it overlooks a glaring paradox which I am endeavouring to point out. The very desire to attain union with the objective universe is evidence of the individuals separateness from that universe. Its not a matter of belief its a matter of conscious awareness, any conscious act - relative to the OU - even one that seeks to harmonise with it - is an exercise in that separateness.

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Yes, to my knowledge this is the goal of all conventional religions which views man as estranged from the objective universe [OU]. It is the desire to become one with the OU , to blend with it, to harmonise with it. This is a very natural approach although it overlooks a glaring paradox which I am endeavouring to point out. The very desire to attain union with the objective universe is evidence of the individuals separateness from that universe. Its not a matter of belief its a matter of conscious awareness, any conscious act - relative to the OU - even one that seeks to harmonise with it - is an exercise in that separateness.

I.m not refering to "man" at all, or to "desire" of man, I refer to spirit and 'KNOWING' of no separation.

padma

This is my original point, we are here on Earth in this incarnation solely to remember about Divine Source Love for us and All. We have to return to the Creator, going home. This leads us to Return But, We Are Not The Creator, we are not God. To believe that you are God because of the idea of being separate and realizing you are not separate does come down to the genesis story which points out man's ego to become bigger than God by proclaiming himself to be God. Be happy with who you truly are, for to me to believe that I am God is wholly delusional.

WilliamMelmoth

I.m not refering to "man" at all, or to "desire" of man, I refer to spirit and 'KNOWING' of no separation.

Or it would seem you are not referring to the objective universe or nature at all, perhaps you are talking about subjective experience, your subjective universe, which is weird because you are also claiming as a result of having no seperation to have no ego [no perception of the self] or a non-ego [no sensations of things not perceived as the self]

angelman121

padma wrote: »

This is my original point, we are here on Earth in this incarnation solely to remember about Divine Source Love for us and All. We have to return to the Creator, going home. This leads us to Return But, We Are Not The Creator, we are not God. To believe that you are God because of the idea of being separate and realizing you are not separate does come down to the genesis story which points out man's ego to become bigger than God by proclaiming himself to be God. Be happy with who you truly are, for to me to believe that I am God is wholly delusional.

It seem's to me that you think I'm talking about "man" or "human" being divine, I'm not, It's spirit I am referring to, The "me" you are referring to is human, the biblical stories mean nothing to me as I'v never read them.

jasonmcco

angelman121 wrote: »

There is not -a -god as in a separate or individual being or entity, however there is an undeniable energy called life that is sharing itself with all (sharing itself with itself). This life energy ( who's source is still a mistery to science) enables all things to be, it is part of every life form, it makes up the space inbetween the life forms(we travel to space looking for signs of life on other planets we dont see the space and the planets themselves as life) every life form has to soak in this energy in order to live and so not only is this energy all encompasing it is also within. The thing that is called god is just energy, as humans we can and do feel, and sense this energy every moment but we dont attribute it to god or source we take it for granted, however if you open your mind to you being part of this energy and experience its infinite nature (outside has no end and you are breathing the outside energy into you making you one) you can move beyond your human limitations of separate beings into the limitless energy of life itself, there you will find that life energy/source/god is a feeling, its love loving itself, peace being peaceful, joy rejoicing, gratitude being grateful,light shining.You can only do and feel this for yourself as all feelings come from within and cannot be shared with another ,with one excepition and that is the feeling of life sharing itself with life, you are not separate from god/source/life you are or can be if you so choose- god

Complete and utter bolderdash and a great example of how religions spring up. A person who doesn't know the answers making one up to suit his amazing beautiful theory . Run a mile from this sort of nonsense people.

It is what it is and the only thing we can be sure of is that we live and die.
And that positive behaviour is accepted as being more beneficial to us as individuals and society as a whole.

Stop making crap up people coz there are vunerable people out there who will listen to you.

angelman121

jasonmcco wrote: »

Complete and utter bolderdash and a great example of how religions spring up. A person who doesn't know the answers making one up to suit his amazing beautiful theory . Run a mile from this sort of nonsense people.

It is what it is and the only thing we can be sure of is that we live and die.
And that positive behaviour is accepted as being more beneficial to us as individuals and society as a whole.

Stop making crap up people coz there are vunerable people out there who will listen to you.

Each to their own. Isn't free speech a wonderful thing. don't "we" think

jasonmcco

angelman121 wrote: »

Each to their own. Isn't free speech a wonderful thing. don't "we" think

We do.

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Or it would seem you are not referring to the objective universe or nature at all, perhaps you are talking about subjective experience, your subjective universe, which is weird because you are also claiming as a result of having no seperation to have no ego [no perception of the self] or a non-ego [no sensations of things not perceived as the self]

Really don't' want to get into a war of semantics, as word's are so ambiguous, for instance what you interpret "the objective universe" as, is quite possibly entirely different to me as I see the whole lot objective and subjective as just an illusion, a dream that is already over, If you don't get it well that's ok with me. I'v no interested in twisting anybody's arm.

padma

angelman121 wrote: »

It seem's to me that you think I'm talking about "man" or "human" being divine, I'm not, It's spirit I am referring to, The "me" you are referring to is human, the biblical stories mean nothing to me as I'v never read them.

Which is what I'm talking about too. Spirit. yet it seems that you are talking from your human experience on earth believing your spirit is God? is this correct?

WilliamMelmoth

angelman121 wrote: »

Really don't' want to get into a war of semantics, as word's are so ambiguous, for instance what you interpret "the objective universe" as, is quite possibly entirely different to me as I see the whole lot objective and subjective as just an illusion, a dream that is already over, If you don't get it well that's ok with me. I'v no interested in twisting anybody's arm.

With respect, no I do not get it as your comments follow no logic or consistency. I have no interest in twisting someone's arm either but I have a very strong interest in discernment. I do not think that words need be ambiguous, that is why I can say with clarity when something is objective it is not an illusion.
But I do of course agree that you have the right to think that is not the case and that free speech is a wonderful thing

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

With respect, no I do not get it as your comments follow no logic or consistency. I have no interest in twisting someone's arm either but I have a very strong interest in discernment. I do not think that words need be ambiguous, that is why I can say with clarity when something is objective it is not an illusion.
But I do of course agree that you have the right to think that is not the case and that free speech is a wonderful thing

I made a mistake in using your words (copy and paste) in my reply to your post, as I don't normally use the terms objective or subjective in my vocabulary, What I am talking about is a the feeling /experience of being spiritual, and logic will and does block/cut off this feeling/experience as its a human trait, (it would be like taking notes while meditating) logic is useful to get to the point of spiritual awareness, but in order to be spiritual, logic cannot be applied when one is spiritual, as the universe is illusion defies logic, the concept of nothingness expanding also defies logic, yet nothingness can be and is experienced by the spiritual being. This experience cannot be explained or shared, the nearest to sharing or explaining is to inform it is possible.

angelman121

padma wrote: »

Which is what I'm talking about too. Spirit. yet it seems that you are talking from your human experience on earth believing your spirit is God? is this correct?

Not to sure if you have a fixed notion of what god is or not, just to clarify, I don't believe in a fixed notion of a god, but a feeling and experience of creation sharing itself. so believing that "my" spirit to be "god" well yes and no, just mine- no- all spirit (not spirit's) yes, I see/feel/know all life as one(not just life forms) and life is not and cannot be separate from life. It's a spiritual experience not a human experience, although the human is the vehicle to or from that experience.

WilliamMelmoth

I don't normally use the terms objective or subjective in my vocabulary, What I am talking about is a the feeling /experience of being spiritual

Ironically thats is a text book expression of a subjective experience

logic will and does block/cut off this feeling/experience as its a human trait, (it would be like taking notes while meditating)

You are correct that the rational intellect does seem like a product of being human but I do not see why you can not make 'notes' after meditating for example, like I have done. Many times. This allows you to experience the ecstatic state and then, through reflection and conscious understanding apply what you have learned in that state in a very real objective and constructive way. That is the key to the expression 'As above, so below'. Otherwise you just end up a mystic with your head in the clouds

logic is useful to get to the point of spiritual awareness, but in order to be spiritual, logic cannot be applied when one is spiritual, as the universe is illusion defies logic, the concept of nothingness expanding also defies logic, yet nothingness can be and is experienced by the spiritual being.

So being spritual means experiencing nothing, I can see why you check logic at the door :eek:

This experience cannot be explained or shared, the nearest to sharing or explaining is to inform it is possible.

Ha! A classic scapegoat or disclaimer for those that do not 'get it'. Dont forget now that the onus is upon your sir to provide some evidence to your statements above. Otherwise, why did you post about it?

angelman121

WilliamMelmoth wrote: »

Ironically thats is a text book expression of a subjective experience



You are correct that the rational intellect does seem like a product of being human but I do not see why you can not make 'notes' after meditating for example, like I have done. Many times. This allows you to experience the ecstatic state and then, through reflection and conscious understanding apply what you have learned in that state in a very real objective and constructive way. That is the key to the expression 'As above, so below'. Otherwise you just end up a mystic with your head in the clouds



So being spritual means experiencing nothing, I can see why you check logic at the door :eek:




Ha! A classic scapegoat or disclaimer for those that do not 'get it'. Dont forget now that the onus is upon your sir to provide some evidence to your statements above. Otherwise, why did you post about it?

I don't have to provide any evidence, and any onus only exists in your mind, I simply posted (in the spirituality forum!) a concept for anyone who would seek another spiritual viewpoint/experience. You write your notes AFTER meditating not during, As above so below = you are spirit now.

WilliamMelmoth

angelman121 wrote: »

I don't have to provide any evidence, and any onus only exists in your mind, I simply posted (in the spirituality forum!) a concept for anyone who would seek another spiritual viewpoint/experience. You write your notes AFTER meditating not during, As above so below = you are spirit now.

Spirituality does not necessarily mean turning of ones critical faculties. If you would prefer no one to comment then I would suggest either do not post to a discussion forum, or do not make absurd claims like 'the universe is an illusion' without any rationale. Even a cursory mention of Plato's Cave or Solipism would put context to your statements, albeit at a conceptual stretch.

padma

angelman121 wrote: »

Not to sure if you have a fixed notion of what god is or not, just to clarify, I don't believe in a fixed notion of a god, but a feeling and experience of creation sharing itself. so believing that "my" spirit to be "god" well yes and no, just mine- no- all spirit (not spirit's) yes, I see/feel/know all life as one(not just life forms) and life is not and cannot be separate from life. It's a spiritual experience not a human experience, although the human is the vehicle to or from that experience.

So in essence, you see Us as a part of creation, and Creation itself being God? Hence, as we are a part of creation, that this means we are not separate from Creation and by this belief we are God? Am I correct in saying this? So, God to you is not the Creator?? it is the created?

angelman121

padma wrote: »

So in essence, you see Us as a part of creation, and Creation itself being God? Hence, as we are a part of creation, that this means we are not separate from Creation and by this belief we are God? Am I correct in saying this? So, God to you is not the Creator?? it is the created?

If you mean "us" as humans , no I don't see humans as part of the creator or creation, I see this universe as a dream or illusion.
what you call "god" is creation (living and ongoing) not the created (ended) and so "god" to me is spirit expanding , and this is experienced by spirit as love, peace, joy , gratitude and light and then nothingness. I remember as a child being told a story of god creating the the angels and the universe in seven days and from what I remember it started with "in the beginning" well I recon the "god" I'm on about goes beyond that beginning.

padma

angelman121 wrote: »

If you mean "us" as humans , no I don't see humans as part of the creator or creation, I see this universe as a dream or illusion.
what you call "god" is creation (living and ongoing) not the created (ended) and so "god" to me is spirit expanding , and this is experienced by spirit as love, peace, joy , gratitude and light and then nothingness. I remember as a child being told a story of god creating the the angels and the universe in seven days and from what I remember it started with "in the beginning" well I recon the "god" I'm on about goes beyond that beginning.

Of course it is easy to see you are talking about Maya, Illusion etc and you have a basic knowledge about it.

The story of creation itself is where God who existed before the beginning, created the existence so you have nothing new about that. Yet it seems that you are doing your best to be mysterious on your own esoteric beliefs. Either way about it from another perspective here comes a person (spirit) ie you, who believes he is God, and all spirits (us) in the whole existence are God.

So all of our Spirit together is Love, joy, peace and Gratitude which is God. Yet, who are we Grateful to? ourself? ie God?

It is a mixed up belief to be fair and it sounds incredibly like the Ego doing it's best to try and shine and be something it is not, God.

WilliamMelmoth

padma wrote: »

Of course it is easy to see you are talking about Maya, Illusion etc and you have a basic knowledge about it.

The story of creation itself is where God who existed before the beginning, created the existence so you have nothing new about that. Yet it seems that you are doing your best to be mysterious on your own esoteric beliefs. Either way about it from another perspective here comes a person (spirit) ie you, who believes he is God, and all spirits (us) in the whole existence are God.

So all of our Spirit together is Love, joy, peace and Gratitude which is God. Yet, who are we Grateful to? ourself? ie God?

It is a mixed up belief to be fair and it sounds incredibly like the Ego doing it's best to try and shine and be something it is not, God.

Although the OP may disagree with my analysis, it would seem to me Angelman sees god as the order in everything, the totality of existence both known and unknown, like nature for example or the cosmos. This is experienced by him through his intense feelings of being at one with this order. Whereas Padma, seem to see god as an external entity who created this existence and that we should be grateful for that. Both seem to dismiss or disregard any state of ego and aspire to ultimately become one with this universal reality, either in denying any seperation of the ego from this totality of existence [Angelman] or a longing to return to nirvanic existence/non existence by entering heaven [Padma].

What is apparent in both cases is that which seems to be refered to as god is almost identical to that which he is said to have created - a bit of a paradox in my opinion.

Both belief systems disregard that their experience of the world around them is indirect, but information concerning it must come through their own subjective interpretation. The subjective universe is dismissed by the OP [and if one is to follow Padmas logic, I would say by Padma too] as either non existant or irrelevant. Which is ironic as it is the subjective universe that is free from the limitations of the world of the five senses and three dimensions that allows them to conceptualise such beliefs in the first place.

angelman121

padma wrote: »

Of course it is easy to see you are talking about Maya, Illusion etc and you have a basic knowledge about it.

The story of creation itself is where God who existed before the beginning, created the existence so you have nothing new about that. Yet it seems that you are doing your best to be mysterious on your own esoteric beliefs. Either way about it from another perspective here comes a person (spirit) ie you, who believes he is God, and all spirits (us) in the whole existence are God.

So all of our Spirit together is Love, joy, peace and Gratitude which is God. Yet, who are we Grateful to? ourself? ie God?

It is a mixed up belief to be fair and it sounds incredibly like the Ego doing it's best to try and shine and be something it is not, God.

Gratitude or "being grateful" is a state of mind and a feeling, and being so it cannot be "given" to anyone or anything, in fact, like all feelings it is a private experience. so when one is "being grateful" one joins with the spirit that is Love, joy, peace and Gratitude which is God. Of course one can jump up and down and do a million and one thing's to "express" ones feeling's, but they still do not leave you. In short feel love flowing through you, your connected with "god", feel anger flowing through you, you disconnect yourself. simple concept apply at will.
Don't know anything about "maya" so I have no Knowledge of it, never mind a basic one.
I have a website, which has my beliefs for all to see, there is no mystery in that. http://www.paulwilliams.ie

padma

angelman121 wrote: »

Gratitude or "being grateful" is a state of mind and a feeling, and being so it cannot be "given" to anyone or anything, in fact, like all feelings it is a private experience. so when one is "being grateful" one joins with the spirit that is Love, joy, peace and Gratitude which is God. Of course one can jump up and down and do a million and one thing's to "express" ones feeling's, but they still do not leave you. In short feel love flowing through you, your connected with "god", feel anger flowing through you, you disconnect yourself. simple concept apply at will.
Don't know anything about "maya" so I have no Knowledge of it, never mind a basic one.
I have a website, which has my beliefs for all to see, there is no mystery in that. http://www.paulwilliams.ie

This is more agreeable as you talk about being connected to True Source. There seems to be a mixup in concept here and this is what I'm getting to. When you are connected to True Source all the beautiful feelings ie, Love Joy, Peace happiness, Gratitude is abundant and flowing directly from the Source of all these things. The Source being for want of a better description, God. Yet from the start of these posts you made a very bold statement in that YOU Are God, This is the conflict I have and from my experience there is a Source and all the beautiful feelings come from the Source of infinite Love and Light, not We are the Source collectively.

Returning Home then is Yoga, and the true meaning of Yoga is returning to the creator, becoming who we truly are, sparks of the Divine Source. Yet, we are not the Source.

angelman121

padma wrote: »

This is more agreeable as you talk about being connected to True Source. There seems to be a mixup in concept here and this is what I'm getting to. When you are connected to True Source all the beautiful feelings ie, Love Joy, Peace happiness, Gratitude is abundant and flowing directly from the Source of all these things. The Source being for want of a better description, God. Yet from the start of these posts you made a very bold statement in that YOU Are God, This is the conflict I have and from my experience there is a Source and all the beautiful feelings come from the Source of infinite Love and Light, not We are the Source collectively.

Returning Home then is Yoga, and the true meaning of Yoga is returning to the creator, becoming who we truly are, sparks of the Divine Source. Yet, we are not the Source.

Don't know anything about Yoga either! Feelings do not leave there source.
The concept of "sparks of the Divine Source" as separate entities, is the epitome of separation, yet the truth that the sparks are all of the same energy is contained within each spark, this truth or sameness is what cancels out or undoes the concept of separation.

However as source is feeling and living, understanding this is not enough to"make the connection" it is in the "living of the feeling" that connects or disconnects one from source.

Peace is Peace and when one is Peaceful one has joined with Peace, you are not a little bit of Peace standing apart from and separate from a bigger peaceful entity or being, but equally peaceful. Love is the same as is joy and gratitude, and as feeling cannot leave there source, and source being love, when one is feeling love, one is feeling source, and at one with source.making you the same as. or in its likeness.

I really don't know how to put this into words any more then I have.
The concept, belief system and experience of separation will not just disappear of it's own accord, it has to be replaced with the experience of oneness.

padma

so, you've gone from being you are God, to being the same as or likeness?

angelman121

padma wrote: »

so, you've gone from being you are God, to being the same as or likeness?

All mean the same thing (to me)

Corkgirl210

I am god, you are god, it is god, all part of one consciousness.....

I AGREE 100%

Just depends on how far your consciousness stretches.. mine stretches from here to there to eternity, beyond, aliens, planets, galaxies and infinity..

so we are all infinite beings experiencing God...

Hi brothers and sisters!! xxxx LOVE YIS ALL !!!!