Importing camper into Ireland

niloc1951

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

First of all, we in the industry have tried, numerous times to reason with the Vrt/Vro but they don't want to listen. We fight them on every registration. And another thing people dont realise, they don't hold a data base of Mhs, if your neighbours buy a model x, version y, chassis a, and a month later you buy an identical one, they don't use ones previously registered/vrt'd as a comparison.

I would have thought the 584 would be relatively easily bought in the country? I've seen a good few here. Unless people aren't selling them on.
We haven't imported a S/h MH in over a year iirc, they're cheaper here than abroad.

I'm sure you do try to get the best out of the situation, but talking to 'rank and file' people only gets their opinion. I firmly believe that the farcical situation requires testing in the courts.

It cannot be sustainable that a person/company importing a motorhome is obliged to 'drop their pants and allow the revenue to help themselves' and only be allowed complain after the fact :eek:

Aidan_M_M

niloc1951 wrote: »

I'm sure you do try to get the best out of the situation, but talking to 'rank and file' people only gets their opinion. I firmly believe that the farcical situation requires testing in the courts.

It cannot be sustainable that a person/company importing a motorhome is obliged to 'drop their pants and allow the revenue to help themselves' and only be allowed complain after the fact :eek:

We don't just talk to the rank and file.

Irishgoatman

I learnt last night that there are 15 other countries that apply a VRT on imported vehicles (I haven't had time to look them up), it might be worth somebody's time to find out how they apply it.

If there's another EU country, that could be very interesting.

Irishgoatman

Just found a piece concerning importing into Spain. This is the only useful piece and even that leaves a lot out. No mention of the rate of duty!

Used car: Imported vehicles owned for more than six months prior to the ownerbecoming resident in Spain are not subject to import duty, provided that VATwas paid in the EU country in which the vehicle was purchased.

niloc1951

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

We don't just talk to the rank and file.

Point taken.
Perhaps I used the wrong term, what I was trying to get across is that in the absence of a reliable database of actual selling prices those who make the rules, as opposed to those who implement them, need to be prodded in the direction of accepting the suppliers invoice price, either directly by the trade or by the courts.

sno_fun3

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

I would have thought the 584 would be relatively easily bought in the country? I've seen a good few here. Unless people aren't selling them on.
We haven't imported a S/h MH in over a year iirc, they're cheaper here than abroad.

Ye Aidan its a popular van alright but theres not many around at the moment i dont think theres as many people upgrading with the way things are. Hopefully something will appear shortly and we wont have to worry about the VRT !!

Del2005

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I learnt last night that there are 15 other countries that apply a VRT on imported vehicles (I haven't had time to look them up), it might be worth somebody's time to find out how they apply it.

If there's another EU country, that could be very interesting.

Since it's a local registration tax it doesn't matter what other countries do. You can't use their systems to compare to ours.

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Just found a piece concerning importing into Spain. This is the only useful piece and even that leaves a lot out. No mention of the rate of duty!

Used car: Imported vehicles owned for more than six months prior to the ownerbecoming resident in Spain are not subject to import duty, provided that VATwas paid in the EU country in which the vehicle was purchased.

We have a similar rule. You have to have lived outside of Ireland for 12 months and owned it for more than 6 months, if you sell it within 12 months of import you're liable for the VRT.

porterboy

I traded in an Irish camper in Germany so I should only have to pay vrt on the difference when (if) I bring it back.

Irishgoatman

Del2005 wrote: »

Since it's a local registration tax it doesn't matter what other countries do. You can't use their systems to compare to ours.



We have a similar rule. You have to have lived outside of Ireland for 12 months and owned it for more than 6 months, if you sell it within 12 months of import you're liable for the VRT.

Firstly , I said it would be interesting to see how another E.U. country applied import tax, meaning did they have a set formula as compared to our ad hoc system.

Secondly, I was showing the fact that even another E.U. country doesn't state how much or what percentage is charged as import tax.

In other words "We are not alone" (key Xfiles music).

Irishgoatman

porterboy wrote: »

I traded in an Irish camper in Germany so I should only have to pay vrt on the difference when (if) I bring it back.

Great thinking but I wonder if it will work?.

Best of luck in trying:).

Del2005

porterboy wrote: »

I traded in an Irish camper in Germany so I should only have to pay vrt on the difference when (if) I bring it back.

I doubt it, since the vehicle you are bringing back needs to be registered here.

But if an Irish person bought the one you had traded in and took it back to Ireland to be registered they'd have no VRT, it would go back onto the Irish plate it was on before. A few people on Motors have done this.

Irishgoatman

Del2005 wrote: »

I doubt it, since the vehicle you are bringing back needs to be registered here.

But if an Irish person bought the one you had traded in and took it back to Ireland to be registered they'd have no VRT, it would go back onto the Irish plate it was on before. A few people on Motors have done this.

I fail to understand how this could work.
Surely the person in, say Germany, who takes the vehicle as a trade in becomes the owner.
If he were to keep it on his sales lot for a length of time on its Irish plates and then you buy it and bring it back, then you would have to explain, when you send for a change of ownership, who you bought it from and when you became the owner. Also the previous owner needs to sign the transfer of ownership if you're trying to use the original Irish plates.

niloc1951

Del2005 wrote: »

......................................But if an Irish person bought the one you had traded in and took it back to Ireland to be registered they'd have no VRT, it would go back onto the Irish plate it was on before. A few people on Motors have done this.

This is correct, in fact I know of one particular dealer in Northern Ireland who keeps the Irish plates and if the new buyer is from The South the vehicle just returns here under the original plates, this is quite legal.

A number of years ago I had an import from the UK which became surplus to requirements, my son emigrated to there and was in need of a car, he simple took it back, got a set of plates for it (I knew the original UK number), told the DVLA all the documents were 'missing' and the car had been out of the country for a while so they issued replacement documents, got it MOT'd, taxed and insured without any difficulty.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

This is correct, in fact I know of one particular dealer in Northern Ireland who keeps the Irish plates and if the new buyer is from The South the vehicle just returns here under the original plates, this is quite legal.

A number of years ago I had an import from the UK which became surplus to requirements, my son emigrated to there and was in need of a car, he simple took it back, got a set of plates for it (I knew the original UK number), told the DVLA all the documents were 'missing' and the car had been out of the country for a while so they issued replacement documents, got it MOT'd, taxed and insured without any difficulty.

Lying doesn't make it legal in my book but that aside, how was/would the change of ownership be explained?. The DVLA in Swansea would have the car you mention shown as exported to Ireland under your name and now someone with the same surname but, possible, a different first name trying to get documents for it. Would only work if the country you're taking it to doesn't have VRT on imported vehicles.

Sounds far too complicated and risky to me.

Del2005

Irishgoatman wrote: »

I fail to understand how this could work.
Surely the person in, say Germany, who takes the vehicle as a trade in becomes the owner.
If he were to keep it on his sales lot for a length of time on its Irish plates and then you buy it and bring it back, then you would have to explain, when you send for a change of ownership, who you bought it from and when you became the owner. Also the previous owner needs to sign the transfer of ownership if you're trying to use the original Irish plates.

I was assuming that it would have been transferred to a different EU plate. The Irish reg of a vehicle is tied to it for life. So if it was sold to a German/EU dealer and than a person reimported it to Ireland, there is no more VRT liable as it's already registered in Ireland. If it's still on Irish plates you don't need to do anything apart from get the person you bought it off to send off the VLC with your details and then tax it, it may be slightly more complicated than this.

niloc1951 wrote: »

This is correct, in fact I know of one particular dealer in Northern Ireland who keeps the Irish plates and if the new buyer is from The South the vehicle just returns here under the original plates, this is quite legal.

A number of years ago I had an import from the UK which became surplus to requirements, my son emigrated to there and was in need of a car, he simple took it back, got a set of plates for it (I knew the original UK number), told the DVLA all the documents were 'missing' and the car had been out of the country for a while so they issued replacement documents, got it MOT'd, taxed and insured without any difficulty.

There was no need to do that, the car was already UK type approved so you could have just exported it to the UK and registered it. A mate of mine brought an Irish bike to the UK and had to get loads of stuff to register it, if I took my exUK bike over it would be simple to get it back onto UK plates

A fair amount of prestige cars are being re-exported to the UK now that we are broke and Sterling is strong against the Euro.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Lying doesn't make it legal in my book but that aside, how was/would the change of ownership be explained?. The DVLA in Swansea would have the car you mention shown as exported to Ireland under your name and now someone with the same surname but, possible, a different first name trying to get documents for it. Would only work if the country you're taking it to doesn't have VRT on imported vehicles.

Sounds far too complicated and risky to me.

No lies told:mad::mad:

Facts:
Car originally purchased in UK by UK resident
Car sold by said UK resident to me, Irish resident
VRT paid by me
Car taken back to UK, by my son (really irelevent who took it back)
Car continued life in UK under original UK reg
DVLA was happy with transaction and issued V5 to replace the lost one, (which IIRC was held by the VRT people here) to facilitate tax, mot, insurance on the vehicle on its return to the UK.

Logically the vehicle having already borne whatever UK taxes were applicable it would not be subject to the same taxes again on its return to the UK.

Irishgoatman

Let's see if I get things right this time.
Niloc, in your post you said that your son told the DVLA that vehicle documents were "missing". He got the car from you, you obviously had the documents for the car, albeit under Irish reg. So this was not a lie just a tiny tiny little white fib:rolleyes:.
Second point is that when a vehicle is permently exported from one country to another the original documents have to be sent to the country of origin, as I had to do on both my car and camper, so that country, in this case the U.K. would surely raise a red flag on "missing" documents.
Unless, of course in this case, both the Irish authorities and the U.K. authorities believe the vehicle to be under their jurisdiction.

Still doesn't look too honest to me.

Del2005, you seem to be missing this same point if I understand you correct. Type approval doesn't come into it.
With regard to the lifetime of registration, I find it hard to believe that if you went abroad and purchased a vehicle that had originally been an Irish vehicle, perhaps a good number of years ago, you would not have to pay VRT?. Perhaps someone has first hand knowledge of this.

niloc1951

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Let's see if I get things right this time.
Niloc, in your post you said that your son told the DVLA that vehicle documents were "missing". ................................................

the missing documents were its original UK papers.
And, I can assure you that the whole transaction was totally above board as there is nothing 'dodgy' about importing a vehicle back to its country of origin, apparently it's not unusual.
All my son had for the DVLA was a bill of sale from me, the Irish RF101, and a note of the original UK reg. no., which had been etched on all the windows.

Irishgoatman

niloc1951 wrote: »

the missing documents were its original UK papers.
And, I can assure you that the whole transaction was totally above board as there is nothing 'dodgy' about importing a vehicle back to its country of origin, apparently it's not unusual.
All my son had for the DVLA was a bill of sale from me, the Irish RF101, and a note of the original UK reg. no., which had been etched on all the windows.

Now that you say he had all the paperwork as having bought the car, that changes things drastically.
Not exactly as you said, taking the car over, getting new plates and telling DVLA that docs had gone missing.:(

Now I don't know if the U.K. have import duty on second hand cars into the country, but I find it hard to believe that because a vehicle had originated here in Ireland, say 10 years ago, and then been taken to, let's say, U.K.and changed to U.K. registration, that I could go over there, buy it and bring it back to Ireland without having to pay import/VRT on it.

As I said before. if anyone has done it I'm sure we'd all like to hear about it. First hand knowledge would be better that from a friend of a friend who knows someone who did it:).

If it is possible then I feel sure that there would be quite a few Irish reg. taken back to Germany by people returning home due to the recession here and could now be on or coming on to the second hand market.

paddyp

I have two friends that moved back to england recently:

One brought a previously uk regged vehicle walked into an office and walked out with v5 and licence plate 15 mins later.

The other brought and Irish registered unmodified ford focus and spent 6 months trying to get it reregistered ended up having to get a certificate of conformity from ford ireland

Irishgoatman

Thanks paddyp, If we assume that they had owned the cars for a reasonable length of time (this is why I was looking for someone that had done this themselves so that we could get first hand info.)that appears to show that there's no VRT or import duty charged in the U.K.

Really we're looking for ways to buy, import into here and yet avoid, NOT EVADE, paying VRT.

porterboy

Hymer 644 traded in in Germany on irish plates.

Irishgoatman

porterboy wrote: »

Hymer 644 traded in in Germany on irish plates.

Can you expand on this please as it doesn't tell us much.

porterboy

I have no great point to make just that someone mentioned an Aclass Hymer and that was what I just traded in in Germany to Hymer.

Del2005

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Thanks paddyp, If we assume that they had owned the cars for a reasonable length of time (this is why I was looking for someone that had done this themselves so that we could get first hand info.)that appears to show that there's no VRT or import duty charged in the U.K.

Really we're looking for ways to buy, import into here and yet avoid, NOT EVADE, paying VRT.

Have a look at this.

Irishgoatman

Del2005 wrote: »

Have a look at this.

That's fine. The person has owned the car for over a certain length of time.
He took it out of the country and he is bringing it back.

Different scenario from the original question asked, and trying to be answered, in this thread.

Irishgoatman

porterboy wrote: »

I have no great point to make just that someone mentioned an Aclass Hymer and that was what I just traded in in Germany to Hymer.

What a shame that you couldn't sell it here. It would have saved someone having to worry about VRT.

Del2005

Irishgoatman wrote: »

What a shame that you couldn't sell it here. It would have saved someone having to worry about VRT.

Someone can buy it and not pay VRT. They just have to get a flight out and drive it back.

If you still don't believe that VRT is only paid once in Ireland contact revenue and ask.

paddyp

Irishgoatman wrote: »

Thanks paddyp, If we assume that they had owned the cars for a reasonable length of time (this is why I was looking for someone that had done this themselves so that we could get first hand info.)that appears to show that there's no VRT or import duty charged in the U.K.

Really we're looking for ways to buy, import into here and yet avoid, NOT EVADE, paying VRT.

Any vrt previously paid is taken into account as its unlikely that a vehicle has increased in value you wouldn't pay anything.

snailsong

I just bought a camper in Northern Ireland. The van was taken as a trade in by the seller in NI last august He intended to keep it but was unable to register it to himself as he was not resident in the state. Before buying it I contacted the vehicle registration people in shannon and told them the situation. They said there would be no problem bringing it back, just send them the VRC and a covering letter and they'd sort it out. Drove it home today. I'll be on here shortly looking for advice on how to sort out a few technical issues with the boiler and control unit:).