New Build Cost

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

This thread is gone off track altogether. At no stage did I say I was building a passive house in any post. I said it should be close to passive. Just to keep some guys happy here are a few figures. The Original BOM for costing from a quantity surveyor came in with a total of just over €170,000. That was everything lawns,driveway and boundary walls except for Furniture. 3400ft at €170,000. Could the experts do the calculation for me please as my knowledge of the building trade is not good:rolleyes:;). I am actual coming in well under target for the moment and plastering is nearly finished. I can't do any more for you lads. I'm not going to scan receipts so you can all see them.

BOM is a bill of materials so i do hope its a bill of quantities you mean. I dont care much for receipts but the bill would be an interesting read. Although you did previously say it was the biggest waste of money you spent.

Your original post said it included everything, 5/6 posts in you excluded lawns fences and driveways but you specifically stated it included standard furniture

Can i ask how you have treated VAT in your figures?

PS if you want us to stop replying to your posts you could stop posting😆or as generally happens just agree to disagree and move on

fealeranger

You are correct about the BOM. It was more a BOQ if you like but you know what I am on about so I'm being some way clear. Furniture standard for me would be range cooker, fridge, freezer, dish washer, stoves, fitted kitchen. I paid VAT on material but on direct labour I got the price and that was it. For this standard from a Contractor the quotes coming in were around €162,000-€175,000 less the furniture and VAT. Maybe that might be the differnce between our prices. The VAT on the builders prices at 21% that time was around €196,000.
I could stop posting but that wouldn't be much fun:D:p:cool:.

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

You are correct about the BOM. It was more a BOQ if you like but you know what I am on about so I'm being some way clear. Furniture standard for me would be range cooker, fridge, freezer, dish washer, stoves, fitted kitchen. I paid VAT on material but on direct labour I got the price and that was it. For this standard from a Contractor the quotes coming in were around €162,000-€175,000 less the furniture and VAT. Maybe that might be the differnce between our prices. The VAT on the builders prices at 21% that time was around €196,000.
I could stop posting but that wouldn't be much fun:D:p:cool:.

I could but i wont.......Biting my tongue i'll agree to disagree

bryaj

kkelliher you might but i wont

VAT? 196K less 21% = 161.984K & VAT @ 13.5% = 183.851K = more inaccuracies, will someone please take this person off the air.

kkelliher

bryaj wrote: »

kkelliher you might but i wont

VAT? 196K less 21% = 161.984K & VAT @ 13.5% = 183.851K = more inaccuracies, will someone please take this person off the air.

I was trying not to be seen as picking fault with every post but it is difficult in this instance as the inaccuracies just keep coming

As a qs i am also a bit perplexed by the poster who rubbished the work of his qs originally, rubbished the document, now dosnt know what its actually called (given there is a bill of materials and bill of quantities) and yet it trying to use it to justify his costs.

Very odd but at this stage unsuprising

fealeranger

kkelliher wrote: »

I was trying not to be seen as picking fault with every post but it is difficult in this instance as the inaccuracies just keep coming

As a qs i am also a bit perplexed by the poster who rubbished the work of his qs originally, rubbished the document, now dosnt know what its actually called (given there is a bill of materials and bill of quantities) and yet it trying to use it to justify his costs.

Very odd but at this stage unsuprising

You are right about VAT on labour at 13.5%. Vat on material was 21% and now is 23%. That is a strange. He quoted me €162,000 for all that. I explained what I wanted doors,tiles,timber floors,stoves and it was less the kitchen too. The Price inc vat quoted was €196,000. This included all ground works. You could say finished up to turn key and furnish yourself. I really can't explain anymore short of posting the quotation on here. I gave you guys plenty figures. I'm still am getting the house built for a lot less than this and this was one lowest quote I got from a contractor.

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

I explained what I wanted doors,tiles,timber floors,stoves and it was less the kitchen too.

Do you send a detailed spec and drawings or the blank boq? Did he give you a detailed breakdown and by detail i dont just mean elemental summary.

I gave you guys plenty figures. I'm still am getting the house built for a lot less than this and this was one lowest quote I got from a contractor.

And you gave us plenty of contradictions to go with your figures

And of course it will be cheaper when your paying cash to the blackmarket as apposed to a cheque to a legitimate builder

archtech

fealeranger, you contribution reminds me of the type of conversations clients tell me about having with the fellow down in the pub when told that their budget is unrealistic or when the get their tender prices back and they are over their expectations and can't understand why. The cost will be what the guy (in the pub) paid in terms buying the materials and paying for the labour, but the cost of making the phone calls to get the best price, collecting the materials or visiting the site to check that the materials were delivered or the labour turned up or the time they themselves off work to do stuff will never be factored in. When these are brought into the equation, as often not the price changes.

You claim your house will be near passive, can you define near passive in terms of the energy requirements in kWh/m2/yr

fealeranger

Near passive is not passive. All my statement say it is near passive. This is a discussion forums. You can say what you want. I put up figures and quotes, take it or ignore it. They are real time prices and all you can do is say this is not true. Give me some sort of reason that this can't be done. I say it can be done and I'm doing it at the moment, you say it can't! Tell me why?

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

Near passive is not passive. All my statement say it is near passive.

Seat is nearly Volkswagan but it isnt a Volkswagan....... either it is or it isnt otherwise its a pointless topic for discussion.

They are real time prices and all you can do is say this is not true. Give me some sort of reason that this can't be done.

Maybe I have missed something but I dont recall you giving any real times prices on anything. You have stated your proposed bottom line cost and your cost per ft2. You have to my recollection not mentioned the cost of anything specific in any of the posts in this discussion or the "price of direct labour 2012" discussion.

I say it can be done and I'm doing it at the moment, you say it can't! Tell me why?

Why? because you generally cant buy a new merc for €10,000 and building a new house is no different. Based on years of experience at ground level dealing with new builds, extensions, developments etc etc, I tend to think I have some idea about the cost of building, and as I have stated on a number of occasions already I dont believe you can build for the price you have stated when you are saying it includes everything (sorry updated to exclude some furniture, fences and lawn) and you did not get any free labour.

kkelliher

archtech wrote: »

fealeranger, you contribution reminds me of the type of conversations clients tell me about having with the fellow down in the pub when told that their budget is unrealistic or when the get their tender prices back and they are over their expectations and can't understand why. The cost will be what the guy (in the pub) paid in terms buying the materials and paying for the labour, but the cost of making the phone calls to get the best price, collecting the materials or visiting the site to check that the materials were delivered or the labour turned up or the time they themselves off work to do stuff will never be factored in. When these are brought into the equation, as often not the price changes.

You claim your house will be near passive, can you define near passive in terms of the energy requirements in kWh/m2/yr

I remember meeting a very well know architect in Dublin and he compared
self building to baking a cake. (wired I know but makes sense).

He said that like self building, when baking a cake you can easily find and have access to the recipe, all you have to do is follow the recipe, but for some reason people find this difficult as they are not bakers, some get it right but most get it wrong and it is generally never as good as the professionally bought cake. Some people will even keep going even when they know its wrong and wont look for guidance from a baker.

And he finished by pointing out that unlike a cake you cant put your house in the bin and start again.:D

fealeranger

That must be some engineer that compared making a cake to building a house:rolleyes:. It bet you would have some fun if he was in charge of your build project:D. From what I can see a house price can never be set. You will always be doing something somewhere along the line to a house. Windows will need changing after time, Kitchens need changing, not happy with the tiles in the bathroom, repaint the house, re-insulate the attic. My folks are mid 70's and they are still doing things around and in the house. A house will always be soaking money.

archtech

fealeranger wrote: »

That must be some engineer that compared making a cake to building a house.

Where did kkelliher make reference to an engineer in his last post ? His post made reference to a story of a well known architect.

There is a difference, but then again your definition of some things seems to differ from the norm anyway.

sydthebeat

fealeranger wrote:

I am passing on my experiences as I'm in the middle of a build and just letting people know what I encountered and did and didn't do for their own benifit. I will comment no more on this in case I come accross misleading or otherwise. Happy building.

fealeranger wrote: »

Near passive is not passive. All my statement say it is near passive. This is a discussion forums. You can say what you want. I put up figures and quotes, take it or ignore it. They are real time prices and all you can do is say this is not true. Give me some sort of reason that this can't be done. I say it can be done and I'm doing it at the moment, you say it can't! Tell me why?

you will not be held to any less standard than any other poster.........so when you post about your "experiences" and they appear to be at odds with pretty much ever other poster, you should expect to get your posts challenged, queried and be asked to be more specific. This isnt anything particular to you... if you read many threads here you will always see posters challenged when they post something with goes against the experienced of the frequent posters here.

If you have somehow managed to bring in a build cost at €55 per sq ft then thats fabulous. As this is a discussion forum, and you keep reminding us of this, perhaps you should discuss in more detail how you are going to manage to do this.

You refer to "near passive" but at no stage, even after you were queried, did you state exactly what kwhr/m2 your near passive build is designed as?

you havent either stated exactly what regulations you are building in accordance with. 2005? 2008?
you have said that you

didnt need the air tightness test done

yet claim to be building close to passive... how you marry those two statements together i cant understand.

you have also said that you are in "the middle of your build" .... at what stage are you? roof on yet?

sinnerboy

fealeranger wrote: »

This is a discussion forums. You can say what you want.

No you cannot. From Boards.ie FAQ.

No freedom of speech.This is a private website. There is no "right" to freedom of speech here. We, the Admins and moderators DO want to promote discussion but FREE un-moderated discussion online turns into a screaming match between children. We believe that rules of etiquette should be applied .......... You can use blogger.com to say what YOU like, what you aren’t entitled to is access to the community we have built here without abiding by the community's rules, as decided and enforced by us.

Warning - you are very close to being banned from here for the tone of your posts which have been characterised by mostly by opinion backed up with at best half truths. We have spent a long , long time here establishing this forum as a place apart from the local pub to discuss our dedicated topic.

You are quite free to conduct yourself as you see fit at any weddings , funerals , christenings , golf club or wherever you choose to hang out in real life.

But not here.

Reflect on that before you post again.

Do not be confrontation with anyone.

Do be respectful of all others here.

fealeranger

archtech wrote: »

Where did kkelliher make reference to an engineer in his last post ? His post made reference to a story of a well known architect.

There is a difference, but then again your definition of some things seems to differ from the norm anyway.

My mistake on this. You are correct. He is an Architect but none the less he is not a Civil/Construction/Building engineer and like me or any ordinary person should not compare a self-build to making a cake. I am an electronic engineer and I would not do that. My house is still designed and signed off by a very experienced competent engineer. It is my choice to go self-build and not get a contractor. I said my bit on this. If anybody does not agree fair enough. I will not be contributing any further breakdown of facts and figures on a public forum on this subject. I said my house is on target for €55/sqft. Nobody has to accept it or like it. I gave my actual costs and advice on the original post by Ned78. As for the passive side of things, The house is designed well enough with the aid of the BER and the engineer's experience with good standard of workmanship, well sealed, All thermal bridging eliminated to achieve a very low U value. I will not know for sure until we test it but I will be very dissapointed after all the research, planning and effort gone into the project if it is not a very low energy consumption house.

I've got bak a few prices for one builder to complete to a builders finish, including all finishings - fruit bowl finish - 165000euros (97euro/sq.ft)
I am going to price for direct labour, am hoping to complete to same for about - 140000euros (82euro/sq.ft.)
was wondering is this a realistic price for direct labour??
All advice welcome, thanks in advance

Enjoy the build Ned78



edit: fixed your post by inserting the correct quotation.
sydthebeat

kkelliher

fealeranger wrote: »

He is an Architect but none the less he is not a Civil/Construction/Building engineer and like me or any ordinary person should not compare a self-build to making a cake. I am an electronic engineer and I would not do that.

It was clearly a simple analogy and to be fair to me whilst a funny comparison it has alot of merit. It was not supposed to be a direct like with like comparison.

I said my house is on target for €55/sqft. Nobody has to accept it or like it. I gave my actual costs and advice on the original post by Ned78

You did not give actual costs. You gave a target cost per ft2 and a target bottom line but you have not detailed any of the actual costs.

I think its unfair to knock the discussions we are having based on your posts when your have not provided any detail, responses of fact, or actual advise to the OP outside of sound bites and "opinions". As has been stated by the Mods you have to expect examination on the topics as it is the responsibility of all not to give a false impression of the industry and costs as a whole.

I specifically stated in a previous post that whereas I dont believe the figures quoted, I still hope it does work out for you at that level but unfortunately I also deal with clients who believed they were at that level and have to deal with the consequences in discussions with banks on uncompleted properties as a result of unrealistic costs at the outset which have turned out to be wrong.