Moving Forward Faster

blockic

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

What kicks did you decide on for the big day?

Happy with the Wave Inspire 9's so gonna go with them. Pretty lightweight for a stability shoe. Have about 60miles in them now so happy to go with them. Will use them for the remaining LSRs to be sure though!

upthe19th

blockic wrote: »

Cheers J, I can't believe them myself! :eek: Will be intereting to see if I can hit the paces now! Work rate has slacked a bit the last couple of weeks but hoping for 2 solid weeks now before taper. You are going well yourself. Consistancy, pace variation and miles are key, the times just come flying down then.

Don't worry you will hit them alright.

Gavlor

If you are planning on walking through the water stops in r'dam, make sure you take some walking breaks on your next lsr. Especially in the latter miles. Last thing you want to do is sieze up

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

If you are planning on walking through the water stops in r'dam, make sure you take some walking breaks on your next lsr. Especially in the latter miles. Last thing you want to do is sieze up

Nice one. Took 2 today at 8 & 16 for about 40m but ya good point. I'll take some next 2 weeks as well. Worked quite good today actually. I won't be stopping at every station. Just a couple to make sure I get fluids down.Cups are a disaster.

Gavlor

blockic wrote: »

Nice one. Took 2 today at 8 & 16 for about 40m but ya good point. I'll take some next 2 weeks as well. Worked quite good today actually. I won't be stopping at every station. Just a couple to make sure I get fluids down.Cups are a disaster.

Cups are a total Nitemare. Tho the GLASS glasses handed out by some auld lad in duncannon will take some beating!! I went to grab one and changed my mind last minute when I realised they weren't plastic.. Who hands out glass during a race?!!

RunningKing

blockic wrote: »

Sunday
21 miles LSR / 7:48 average pace

• The weather – ugh...just terrible!
• Running 2:45 minutes by yourself without even an mp3 player is painful/torture. Need to sort this for the next one some way.
• Muscles were shouting big time the last few miles
• Based on todays run, 6:50s for 26 miles??:eek: Jasis, I dunno, the PMP mile run next week will tell a lot.

Moderately happy with the week, mileage is not bad considering the injury, only had to shelf one run. Just saw in BeepBeeps log that it’s 35 days :eek: to the big day! Scary! 2 more weeks and then TAPER TIME!



Week Total|Month to Date|Year to Date
43.5m|61.6m|432.7m

Right J, you have 35 days to turn these negatives into positives, plus the other negatives that you ,ought not know just yet.
You should write down all the possible things that could cost you time and spend the next 35 days crossing them off.

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

Cups are a total Nitemare. Tho the GLASS glasses handed out by some auld lad in duncannon will take some beating!! I went to grab one and changed my mind last minute when I realised they weren't plastic.. Who hands out glass during a race?!!

Haha, I almost choked while eating reading that!! Glasses! That's a good one now!

RunningKing wrote: »

Right J, you have 35 days to turn these negatives into positives, plus the other negatives that you ,ought not know just yet.
You should write down all the possible things that could cost you time and spend the next 35 days crossing them off.

Great tip RK, I'll start that list tonight!:cool:

blockic

Monday
Rest

Took the day off to recuperate after the long run yesterday. Legs felt tired but in a good satisfying kind of way! Means they got a good work out!

Attempted to plan my next couple of week’s runs this evening.

So, here is the situation! Was supposed to do my LSR with PMP miles yesterday but with the injury last week I didn’t want to push it too much so postponed them for this week. Now here is where the dilemma lies. The P&D plan has me down for a 10k race on Saturday and I was thinking of doing the MSB 5km in Dublin or else a 10km time trial by myself, however they suggest that on these weeks that the LSR the day after is done slowly (reduce injury risk which is a valid point), but this is no good to me!:rolleyes:

So I’m thinking now to drop the race/ time trial (getting off lucky this time RK )and do an easy 8 miler towards the end of the week instead, leaving the sole focus to pulling out a good LSR with PMP miles. I think this is the sensible way to go as I have the HM under my belt and I look to have the speed, but need work on the endurance and getting a feel for PMP pace. Makes sense to me anyway?

There is another tune up race in the plan for 2 weeks time and I will definitely stick to that. Also away with work next week so may miss a run, hoping to limit it to just the one! We’ll hold that story for another night sure!

tang1

Makes sense alright, an LSR with PMP miles will give you more confidence for Rotterdam than wiping the floor with RunningKing on Saturday!!

ncmc

I would do the same Blockic, a 10k race at this stage isn't going to be a huge benefit to you, you have the speed, you know that. I think you are lacking a bit of confidence that you have the endurance required for the marathon especially at pmp. So I think a good long lsr with some miles at pmp would benefit you the most.

I've no doubt you have the endurance, but I think you just need the confidence boost of a good lsr. You just have to have faith in your ability! You have done the training and you have to believe it's going to pay off!

blockic

tang1 wrote: »

Makes sense alright, an LSR with PMP miles will give you more confidence for Rotterdam than wiping the floor with RunningKing on Saturday!!

Cool, nice to get confirmation on my thoughts! And sure RK can wait, I'll give him his time in the limelight , sure he'll be even older by the time I do get the opportunity to take him down then. Success!:pac:

TRR

At this stage a 5k race is just for fun. Your long run should be sole focus of the whole week. A cracking 5k pb while a good indicator that things are going well won't stand to you like a long run will. Don't get caught up following that p&d plan to the tee, if you had their emails they would alter accordingly for you. based on your half marathon sub 3hours should be a breeze if you have the long runs in the tank.

blockic

ncmc wrote: »

So I think a good long lsr with some miles at pmp would benefit you the most.

I've no doubt you have the endurance, but I think you just need the confidence boost of a good lsr. You just have to have faith in your ability! You have done the training and you have to believe it's going to pay off!

Nail on the head there! Jees, you're good!! You should start doing motivational talks on weeknights!! (while not interfering with the running of course!:cool:)

blockic

TRR wrote: »

At this stage a 5k race is just for fun. Your long run should be sole focus of the whole week. A cracking 5k pb while a good indicator that things are going well won't stand to you like a long run will. Don't get caught up following that p&d plan to the tee, if you had their emails they would alter accordingly for you. based on your half marathon sub 3hours should be a breeze if you have the long runs in the tank.

Cheers TRR, good advise. Next 3 weeks primary focus will be the midweek long run and the LSR so. As ncmc said, If I knock off a few of these well, The confidence will follow.

TRR

blockic wrote: »

Cheers TRR, good advise. Next 3 weeks primary focus will be the midweek long run and the LSR so. As ncmc said, If I knock off a few of these well, The confidence will follow.

One other thing, don't get caught up with pmp stuff during long runs. If you can do it great, if not don't stress. A decent long run with something faster during the mid week will do the trick. I ran a 2.47 marathon, which was a pb at the time but didn't run one run faster than 7.10 for the 4 months leading up to it. More than one way to skin a cat.

RunningKing

blockic wrote: »

So I’m thinking now to drop the race/ time trial (getting off lucky this time RK )

tang1 wrote: »

Makes sense alright, an LSR with PMP miles will give you more confidence for Rotterdam than wiping the floor with RunningKing on Saturday!!

blockic wrote: »

And sure RK can wait, I'll give him his time in the limelight , sure he'll be even older by the time I do get the opportunity to take him down then. Success!:pac:

all I hear is excuses...........:pac:

blockic

Tuesday
9 miles V02 Max / 7:34 average pace (incl. 5 x 1000m @ 5k pace)

So was determined yesterday to start off this week with a good solid session. Ran out of work to try and get the session in before darkness. Ended up being 10 mins too late.

3 miles easy
5 x 1000m with 135 sec recovery (5:38, 5:34, 5:42, 5:45, 5:38)
1.5 miles easy
0.5 miles cool down

Last two of these reps were lung busters, 5:40-5:45 is probably a more sensible mile pace for these going forward.

Wednesday
11.4 miles MSR / 7:21 average pace (incl. 5m @ PMP)

Snuck out a bit earlier tonight and just got home before it got completely dark! Winning! I planned some PMP miles into this MSR and I had no experience of running 6:50s so said I better start getting some and see what they feel like.

5 miles easy
5 miles @ PMP (6:48, 6:46, 6:48, 6:48, 6:47)
1.3 miles easy/cool down

Being completely honest the first 2 of the PMP miles did not feel comfortable at all (marathon distance wise). I was worried. But then once I got into a rhythm, the last 3 were not as bad and felt some bit manageable. I think If I get a few more PMP miles it will do me the world of good.

This such a jump in marathon pace has me a bit...not sure how to describe it, flustered/confused. Going from 8:00 for my first to 6:50 target now is a big jump. When running the first one, the pace was certainly not easy, but it was comfortable...on this occasion the pace, while not completely strenuous, certainly feels like more effort to keep hitting them.

I would have expected as you get fitter/ faster that the marathon pace should still feel comfortable relative to where you are, but there is definitely a bit of work involved at this pace than what I remember the last time. Not that I can’t do it or anything, just feels like more work earlier on in the run than previous MP!! Maybe this just comes with the territory of sub 3, it does/supposed to feel harder relative to your fitness? Or maybe I just sold myself short on the last one? (Possibly, but I was wrecked at the end of DCM)

Maybe some experienced folk can share their experience on this front, how their marathon paces felt like as they got faster?

Anyway, that’s just a brain dump on my behalf. In other news, thanks to belcarra for the heads up, I got bumped up to Pen C for Rotterdam. Hoping it’s less crowded in there, with no business runners and the like!

RunningKing

Don't be too worried about the PMP miles, you had done a super session on Tuesday, so there's bound to be tiredness in there.

When in doubt, keep thinking of the 13 miles you ran at a faster pace recently!

Well done on the Novice log too, I think there's a need to move past this stage fairly quickly. We're early into it, so the masses won't arrive til April/may.
Be good to encourage some of the regular experienced Boardsies to contribute to the advice bits. TRR and Kurt both gave good inputs, take them on their (experienced) merits and build.
If you build it they will come!

blockic

RunningKing wrote: »

Well done on the Novice log too, I think there's a need to move past this stage fairly quickly. We're early into it, so the masses won't arrive til April/may.
Be good to encourage some of the regular experienced Boardsies to contribute to the advice bits. TRR and Kurt both gave good inputs, take them on their (experienced) merits and build.
If you build it they will come!

Trust me, we want as many experienced boardies as possible to help us out! We've posted a couple of times on this in particular! It's a big team effort like previous years! I just hope they help us out!

beeduybe

You should expect to find 5 miles at PMP tough the day after an interval session like that but the fact you were still able to consistently hit your target pace for each MP mile I think would suggest you're well on course to hitting your target on the day in a race environment having finished the whole training plan and feeling a lot fresher after the taper. Sounds like you're suffering an early dose of taper madness

ncmc

blockic wrote: »

This such a jump in marathon pace has me a bit...not sure how to describe it, flustered/confused. Going from 8:00 for my first to 6:50 target now is a big jump. When running the first one, the pace was certainly not easy, but it was comfortable...on this occasion the pace, while not completely strenuous, certainly feels like more effort to keep hitting them.

I would have expected as you get fitter/ faster that the marathon pace should still feel comfortable relative to where you are, but there is definitely a bit of work involved at this pace than what I remember the last time. Not that I can’t do it or anything, just feels like more work earlier on in the run than previous MP!! Maybe this just comes with the territory of sub 3, it does/supposed to feel harder relative to your fitness? Or maybe I just sold myself short on the last one? (Possibly, but I was wrecked at the end of DCM)

Maybe some experienced folk can share their experience on this front, how their marathon paces felt like as they got faster?

I was just thinking about this last night, I find it difficult to run at my PMP at the moment. Like yourself, I’m trying to knock about 1 minute per mile off my DCM pace. One thing I will say is last summer when I ran my midweek run at my then PMP, I remember finding it difficult. However, now I do my easy runs at that pace and find that I am cruising.

I guess my point is, that PMP probably should be challenging, as you get fitter and modify your PMP downwards, I would expect it to still feel difficult. I think where you see the improvement in fitness is when previous PMP that once felt difficult, now feels easy.

You also have to remember that you can’t compare a training run with a race setting. To see where you’re at, you should be looking at your recent HM which you absolutely Aced rather than a training run on a damp Wednesday after a days work and a tough session the night before!

menoscemo

Yep, PMP should be tough. I did 10 @ PMP yesterday, I needed 4 easy days in a row before the session, was 10 seconds/mile slower than you and I am in such ribbons today i can barely walk

Sounds like you found it tough but sustainable and you ran the day after an Interval session. You are well on course, don't worry.

blockic

beeduybe wrote: »

You should expect to find 5 miles at PMP tough the day after an interval session like that but the fact you were still able to consistently hit your target pace for each MP mile I think would suggest you're well on course to hitting your target on the day in a race environment having finished the whole training plan and feeling a lot fresher after the taper. Sounds like you're suffering an early dose of taper madness

I loves taper madness I do! Only two weeks early. Not bad!:)

ncmc wrote: »

I guess my point is, that PMP probably should be challenging, as you get fitter and modify your PMP downwards, I would expect it to still feel difficult. I think where you see the improvement in fitness is when previous PMP that once felt difficult, now feels easy.

You also have to remember that you can’t compare a training run with a race setting. To see where you’re at, you should be looking at your recent HM which you absolutely Aced rather than a training run on a damp Wednesday after a days work and a tough session the night before!

Great point there, thanks ncmc.

menoscemo wrote: »

Yep, PMP should be tough. I did 10 @ PMP yesterday, I needed 4 easy days in a row before the session, was 10 seconds/mile slower than you and I am in such ribbons today i can barely walk

Sounds like you found it tough but sustainable and you ran the day after an Interval session. You are well on course, don't worry.

That would be exactly how it felt, looks like im on the right track so! Have 12-14 PMP on my LSR Saturday, so I shall be expecting to be in ribbons Sunday, I'll just kind the nearest bar stool and camp there for the day! :pac:

Thanks for the feedback guys.

RayCun

PMP always feels tough, and that 14@PMP session gave me nightmares. It's all in the mind.

tang1

RayCun wrote: »

PMP always feels tough, and that 14@PMP session gave me nightmares. It's all in the mind.

+1 to this, i'm not going to blow sunshine up your ar$e, but you definitely have the talent to go sub 3. Have a bit more belief in yourself & your running talent.

Gavlor

I think you should throw your hat at it and target 3.20.

You haven't put in the effort required to break 3 hours and frankly I dont think you deserve to break 3 hours.

Infact you should pack in running and go back to playing golf like an old man.

blockic

Gavlor wrote: »

I think you should throw your hat at it and target 3.20.

You haven't put in the effort required to break 3 hours and frankly I dont think you deserve to break 3 hours.

Infact you should pack in running and go back to playing golf like an old man.

Langer!!:D I'm a sucker for reverse psychology!! I think I'll go off and get a dose of PMA from CL's thread! Right so...2:50 or bust! :pac: Looking forward to the LSR on Saturday now in a weird kinda way.

Gavlor

blockic wrote: »

Langer!!:D I'm a sucker for reverse psychology!! I think I'll go off and get a dose of PMA from CL's thread! Right so...2:50 or bust! :pac: Looking forward to the LSR on Saturday now in a weird kinda way.

Truth be told, my previous post would be more appropriate in my own log!!!!

VaderMLK

hello Blockic,
Philip here, I met you after the bohermeen run. Just came across and reading some of your log – you are making some great improvements well done.
I’m heading to Rotterdam too so may see you there I’m sure. Myself and Belclarra are on the 9:40am flight from dub.

Anyways I saw you had a query about getting water on the course, have a look at this link, looks like they have lids on the cups so should make it easier.

http://www.marathonrotterdam.org/runners/runnersinfo/smart-drinking-system

good work with getting bumped on the starting pens. Few lads in the club got sorted too so hopefully will mean a bit less congestion at the start. fella here at work was saying can get very congested starting so we might was well be up as far as we can. sure we might even get to do a few miles together though my chat at that pace
may be minimal.
Also I read you were doing your final PMP run this weekend.

Not sure exactly where you are based but there are a few of us doing a half marathon in balbriggan on sunday and my plan is to do 10-12k beforehand and then do PMP for the run itself. Doing MP on my own I find hard at times to maintain also.

Finally what’s your strategy for the race itself? Having “come a cropper” at DCM last year I’m going to head off steady/easy for the first few ks. Did this at both the athlone 3/4 and the eco run in dublin port before dcm and was a great feeling finishing strong at them both for a change.
Thus I’m planning on doing 8k at 4:25, 3k at 4:15 and then the remainder (fingers crossed) at 4:10. That adds up to a 2:59 overall time…. sure might as well give it a go...

Right that’s it for now. Good luck with your final weeks of training and sure we might see you at some stage over the rotterdam weekend. Regards Philip

TRR

VaderMLK wrote: »

Finally what’s your strategy for the race itself? Having “come a cropper” at DCM last year I’m going to head off steady/easy for the first few ks. Did this at both the athlone 3/4 and the eco run in dublin port before dcm and was a great feeling finishing strong at them both for a change.
Thus I’m planning on doing 8k at 4:25, 3k at 4:15 and then the remainder (fingers crossed) at 4:10. That adds up to a 2:59 overall time…. sure might as well give it a go...

Right that’s it for now. Good luck with your final weeks of training and sure we might see you at some stage over the rotterdam weekend. Regards Philip

Lads didn't both of you run low 1.20s in Bohermeen? I'll throw my oar in here and give you my opinion, sure feck it I've been doing it all week and upsetting lots of people so why change tact

IMO the worst thing you can do when targeting a time like sub 3/4/5 is aim for something like 2.59/3.59/4.59. For both of you 1.27-1.28 would be very conservative for the first half. I always aim (what I mean is I train) for 4-5 minutes under my ideal time. Based on your half times the above approach is sensible IMO and you should be even to push on in the second half.

It took me 5 years to go under a certain time barrier and looking back now it had nothing to do with fitness it was all to do with confidence. I was probably in the shape of my life in 2007 and missed it while in recent years I'd say with 85% of the fitness and a "fcuk it this is happening today attitude" I managed to get over that hurdle and have done it a few times now. I now have a new time to chase and looking at the mile splits required makes me feel sick, but I know if I do the training and get a bit of confidence in myself it will happen.