The surname

Sorcha16

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Yes, that's what I meant alright. It's as good as a DNA test.

Teyla, my post was in response to Blatantrereg's views, that it's preferable to take a father's surname without question because he thinks it proves paternity and to take a mother's is therefore 'irrational'

Gauss

Sorcha16 wrote: »

Teyla, my post was in response to Blatantrereg's views, that it's preferable to take a father's surname without question because he thinks it proves paternity and to take a mother's is therefore 'irrational'

He never said it proves paternity.

Feathers

Gauss wrote: »

He never said it proves paternity.

Exactly, he said it was 'awesome when you think about it', not that it was the reason to begin with or as a justification for continuing it.

Gauss

It's between the parents to decide, they can call themselves whatever they want. Simple as.

monkeysnapper

What happens if a child takes a double barrel surname then has their own children and double barrels their name, do they have a quwdrople sir name , then their children have children.

foxyboxer

A theory would be that men tend to be dominant and as such have a tendency to mark their territory in a primal, subconcious way.

The woman taking the males name is a form of this.

With the subsequent kids, having them taking the man's name is also an aspect of this marking of territory.

Another is that, people generally like things simple and having one surname for children makes sense that way. Given that throughout history, societies were dominated by men, then it was practice to have married women and family take the man's name.

monkeypants

It's just a tradition and it probably comes from when property and other assets were owned by males. That's changed now, so it's more of a personal choice. My missus wanted to take my name when we got married, even though I wasn't bothered about it. But it meant something to her, so that's what happened.

foxyboxer

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

Just shows you know who your Daddy is.

True. You don't know who your father is* but you know for damn sure who you're mother is.**


*recent advances in paternity testing have rendered this sage advice obselete

**Unless she got pregnant outside of wedlock and deemed "unclean" and you were orphaned off in the dark days.

foxyboxer

If I was getting married and my wife refused to take my surname, would I be entitled to sell and recoup the cash for the expensive piece of carbon that I had to buy to initiate the whole thing in the first place?


:pac:

midlandsmissus

foxyboxer wrote: »

If I was getting married and my wife refused to take my surname, would I be entitled to sell and recoup the cash for the expensive piece of carbon that I had to buy to initiate the whole thing in the first place?


:pac:

Well thats another whole kettle of fish. I also think both people should buy rings for the other...but as I said - we all follow tradition, I'd be happy with a wooden ring on a beach. I love cheap jewellery other people give me, because it truly is the thought that counts. You don't need expensive stuff.

lounakin

goz83 wrote: »

I see. If you have another child, will your husbands surname be first? Does his name not have history too? You chose a partner? Smacks in the face of an equal term relationship :rolleyes:

In answer to your question: why not. But one name has to come first, what would you have said had I put his name first? That's right. It has nothing to do with equality in the relationship.

Pherekydes

Milk & Honey wrote: »

It is certainly not prehistoric. Surnames only began to be used in the Middle Ages.

Family names have been around since Roman times. B.C., in fact. The patriarch gave his family name to everyone in the family. They were considered his property (including wives, sons, daughters, daughters-in-law)

Some people are spouting bizarre stuff in this thread:

weemcd wrote: »

If the parents aren't married the child takes the mothers name. If they're married, fathers name. Anything else is just gobshítes

goz83 wrote: »

Double Barrel Names = Unstable/Unmarried.

Double barrel names are like a stamp on a child to say that their mammy and daddy are either, unmarried, uncommitted, or broken up.

lounakin

Gauss wrote: »

Completely agree, I had a quadruple barrel surname and my wife had a quadruple barrel surname. We refused to choose which quadruple barrel surname to give our son, so he now has an octuple barrel surname. I don't see the issue with it and neither does young Jack Smith-Walton-Grant-Pepperpot-Fowler-Dunne-Blanc-Cooper-Santos. When he grows up he can do as he wishes.

My wife is proud of her quadruple barrel name, it has history and she isn't going to abandon it.

Didn't I say my daughter would do whatever she wants when she grows up? She might drop all and take her husband's name.

midlandsmissus

What I just worry about changing my name is: people from long ago - how will they find me? People I mightn't have seen for ages, but they don't about my name change, they'll never find me! Social networking sites,phonebooks etc.

Feathers

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What I just worry about changing my name is: people from long ago - how will they find me? People I mightn't have seen for ages, but they don't about my name change, they'll never find me! Social networking sites,phonebooks etc.

Facebook book has an 'alternative name' option for maiden name/translation etc. that works against its search.

krudler

midlandsmissus wrote: »

What I just worry about changing my name is: people from long ago - how will they find me? People I mightn't have seen for ages, but they don't about my name change, they'll never find me! Social networking sites,phonebooks etc.

When does that ever happen outside of movies?

lounakin

One thing I want to say about this, seriously, is that I gave my daughter 2 last names. I am not married, but have been in the same relationship for close to 14 years with the same man, we have been in three different countries, have been away from each other in college for long periods of time and have settled in Ireland for a while. Within those 14 years, most of my friends who got married have divorced. I don't care about marriage, I'll sign a paper if it suits us and when it suits us. We are not unstable or broken up, we are stronger than most around us, our daughter will grow up with two great names and nobody will bully her for having them, so I fell sorry for those here who somehow associate names with commitment, marriage, and the well-being of a child.

lounakin

lounakin wrote: »

One thing I want to say about this, seriously, is that I gave my daughter 2 last names. I am not married, but have been in the same relationship for close to 14 years with the same man, we have been in three different countries, have been away from each other in college for long periods of time and have settled in Ireland for a while. Within those 14 years, most of my friends who got married have divorced. I don't care about marriage, I'll sign a paper if it suits us and when it suits us. We are not unstable or broken up, we are stronger than most around us, our daughter will grow up with two great names and nobody will bully her for having them, so I fell sorry for those here who somehow associate names with commitment, marriage, and the well-being of a child.

To me it's nothing to do with commitment, in fact I'm not sure I'll ever get married either. I just think that having a double-barrel name sounds ridiculous.

lounakin

Karsini wrote: »

To me it's nothing to do with commitment, in fact I'm not sure I'll ever get married either. I just think that having a double-barrel name sounds ridiculous.

Why would it sound ridiculous? Does it even matter? It's not like you walk around all day saying your full name to everyone for them to turn around and say it sounds ridiculous!

laoch na mona

its just a societal norm that we generally accept
I'm very proud of my heritage from both sides of the family I did feel in an awkward position for a while as im the last of the mane on my dads side and theirs no one on my mothers side (a lot of girls in both families you see) I have my fathers name but my novel solution is that i plan on getting both family crests as tattoos one on each arm

Geri Male

Double-barrelled names are for assholes.

Grayson

I've just skipped to the end so I don't know if this has been mentioned but gulf arabs give girls the mothers surname and boys the fathers surname. And women keep their maiden name.

I think that's fair. I'd be ok with that if I had kids / got married.

lounakin

lounakin wrote: »

Why would it sound ridiculous? Does it even matter? It's not like you walk around all day saying your full name to everyone for them to turn around and say it sounds ridiculous!

I know that if my surname was doubled with another, the surname would be extremely long. I have no objections to picking one or the other, just not both.

Stained Class

In all honesty, it's a circle -jerk arguement.

Ireland has just so lost confidence in itself that,....well everything in the past is to blame for everything.

If you believe in nothing, you'll believe in anything.

People are accepting any 'ol sh1t to fill the moral vaccum that exists in this country now.

There was a thread on Gay Marriage on AH recently & I felt I couldn't contribute my views.

Why?

I'd be beaten over the head by a million handbags from a people who no longer know what they stand for.

This thread is symtomatic of a people fighting over issues that don't amount to a hill of beans.

Not everything traditional is wrong.

We still have a past worth fighting for.

SafeSurfer

Geri Male wrote: »

Double-barrelled names are for assholes.

You mean ass-holes?

SafeSurfer

Stained Class wrote: »

In all honesty, it's a circle -jerk arguement.

Ireland has just so lost confidence in itself that,....well everything in the past is to blame for everything.

If you believe in nothing, you'll believe in anything.

Nihilists would disagree with you. But then again they would disagree with anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

Stained Class

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Nihilists would disagree with you. But then again they would disagree with anyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism[/QUOTE]

It seem to me that the younger Irish that post on here have nothing to believe in, & who can blame them?

When things are going good, everyone's happy.

When things go wrong, everything comes under the microscope.

People want to know how it all went wrong & who to blame.

The way I see it, they're running around like headless chickens, looking to prostitue themselves to any fashionable lefty idea of the time.

Sorcha16

Stained Class wrote: »

It seem to me that the younger Irish that post on here have nothing to believe in, & who can blame them?
The way I see it, they're running around like headless chickens, looking to prostitue themselves to any fashionable lefty idea of the time.

I think you have a very narrow view of young Irish people

Madam_X

When things were going good, people still discussed stuff like this. I don't get dismissing this and a gay marriage discussion simply because they don't matter to you.

I don't feel strongly about this but I see nothing wrong with questioning it.

Btw, amusing to see the small few attempts to strawman that this is about women's rights/man-hating... even though the thread was started by a man. Nice one they were ignored.

Stained Class

Sorcha16 wrote: »

I think you have a very narrow view of young Irish people

No & you quoted the bits of my post that suited yourself.

I try to keep in touch with things, as I've kids myself.

I think young people here shouldn't jump onto any awl bandwagon cos it seems cool at the time.

Short term gain could be long term pain.

Sorcha16

Stained Class wrote: »

I think young people here shouldn't jump onto any awl bandwagon cos it seems cool at the time.

They don't

woodoo

I don't like double-barrel names, especially if there are Mc's or O's in them.

woodoo

woodoo wrote: »

I don't like double-barrel names, especially if there are Mc's or O's in them.

Which mine would.

Terry

I read the first page and gave up.

My surname is O'Dowd. It means "grandson of the dark one".
The name originated in Mayo, so either one of my ancestors was of Spanish descent around the time of the Moors, or he had the same sense of humour I have.
I'm going for the latter because I'm as pale as fúck.

Whatever brought that surname about, we traditionally take our Father's surname because men used to be the breadwinners of the family.

Yes. Times have changed, and in a lot of families you have women as the breadwinners. If you want, you can change your surname.
If it really bothers you, just do it.

Have you done it yet?
Why not?
What's stopping you?

Stained Class

Ah shure everything I've done in 44 years is rendered redundant & obselete by the...........?

Pherekydes

Stained Class wrote: »

Ah shure everything I've done in 44 years is rendered redundant & obselete by the...........?

...shíte you post on boards?

Kurooi

It is not an issue or anything sexist, it is just how things have been going and have become a tradition. No one really cares if you want to go about it differently, something to discuss with your partner if it bothers you.

woodoo

Karsini wrote: »

Which mine would.

Karsini McDermott O'Shea or something along those lines.

goz83

lounakin wrote: »

In answer to your question: why not. But one name has to come first, what would you have said had I put his name first? That's right. It has nothing to do with equality in the relationship.

MINE FIRST is what really stuck out in your post. And REFUSE, in place of a lighter tone, which might have been, "I prefer keeping my own name". Your whole post was one with an "i'm in charge" attitude aimed at men. Want to know where the clue is? It's the first two words of my post here.

goz83

lounakin wrote: »

One thing I want to say about this, seriously, is that I gave my daughter 2 last names. I am not married, but have been in the same relationship for close to 14 years with the same man, we have been in three different countries, have been away from each other in college for long periods of time and have settled in Ireland for a while. Within those 14 years, most of my friends who got married have divorced. I don't care about marriage, I'll sign a paper if it suits us and when it suits us. We are not unstable or broken up, we are stronger than most around us, our daughter will grow up with two great names and nobody will bully her for having them, so I fell sorry for those here who somehow associate names with commitment, marriage, and the well-being of a child.

Kids will bully other kids and it's a little silly to say your child wouldn't be bullied for having two names. If they get bullied for the colour of their hair, they can get bullied because of their names too. Not saying she will, but saying she won't is head in the sand material.

Names can most often be associated with commitment. 2 girls in my daughters class and 1 boy in my sons class have double barrel names. Guess what....their daddies are either not around, or fighting for access. Married does not mean stable, but I believe it makes it more likely. Thats' just my opinion though.

Father Damo

I can never trust or respect people with a double barreled name. Fair enough if your parents are big enough twats to give you one, its not your fault, but by the age of 15 or so you should really have enough life experience and cop on to drop the mothers surname from your name.

danslevent

I was pretty drunk when I started this thread! At one point I argued with my self and there are so many wrong spellings. Haaa!

danslevent

Michael Weston wrote: »

Are you arguing with yourself here ?

Yes.

gobnaitolunacy

Unless you're related to the Royals, I don't see the point in double-barrellers.

willow tree

A friend who lives in England told me there's a new trend there of couples meshing their names. E.g. a Murphy married to a keane might be keaphy or murne. (i haven't read full thread so sorry if this came up already).

Teyla Emmagan

foxyboxer wrote: »

True. You don't know who your father is* but you know for damn sure who you're mother is.**

*recent advances in paternity testing have rendered this sage advice obselete

**Unless she got pregnant outside of wedlock and deemed "unclean" and you were orphaned off in the dark days.

Days old this thread, but I am waiting for the tumbledryer to shut up so I can watch The Walking Dead.

I do honestly think there is something important in a taking a man's surname. Either it's:

• Your Dad's, or
• The man's who wasn't your Dad but accepted that and chose to raise you (either through adoption, or a long chat with his wife about her infidelity or whatever).

Anyway, and I have probably read too many Victorian novels, but I can appreciate what it must mean to a child to be raised as someone's 'son', as opposed to being someone's 'bastard' (ie with your mother's surname say, or no man's son). I think it's about acknowledgement, basically.

Fab how in 2012 my world view is still coloured by Austen etc.