Sunday Independent asks: Is Fianna Fail The Future?

rightwingdub

rightwingdub wrote: »

If Fianna Fail ever become the largest party ever again in Ireland then I think Ireland needs to be Renamed the Republic of Thick Paddies, of course idiots like Willie Kealy and Eoghan Harris have no objection whatsoever to seeing that cancerous party back in government.

It sickens me that the Fianna Fail party still exists, in any normal country(with semi intelligent inhabitants) the members of a party that bankrupts a state 3 times in 30 years would be in jail.

Of course there is so many thick Yahoos in this country they still get 20% of the vote.:mad:

rightwingdub

Deleted User wrote: »

It sickens me that the Fianna Fail party still exists, in any normal country(with semi intelligent inhabitants) the members of a party that bankrupts a state 3 times in 30 years would be in jail.

Of course there is so many thick Yahoos in this country they still get 20% of the vote.:mad:

21% according to the latest REDC poll and rising, you also left out the fact that FF nearly bankrupted Ireland in the 30's and 50's.

I'm a former member of that odious party, admitably Its not something to be proud of.

FTA69

Now of course during elections they engaged in the same auction politics that bertie was a master at.

To say the least, even in 2007 both Labour and Fine Gael support cutting income tax, a large increase in public expenditure as well as cutting stamp duty in order to aid the demand for more houses. To portray them as some sort of fiscally-astute counter balance to Fianna Fáil is nonsense. They bought into the same principles as Fianna Fáil during the boom and never once pointed out that our economy was a bubble built on sand. Instead they sought to moan from the sidelines about how they were the original casino capitalists and as you said yourself, tried to over-auction Fianna Fáil with more of the same policies.

Sadly I think if they said otherwise they would have fared even worse in elections as all a big chunk of the electorate wanted was the party to continue.

Probably. But the fact they bought wholly into the politics of excess doesn't say much about their principles does it?

Just see the minister of health, some of the cr** pulled by Labour members

All Labour have been since the 1940s is an adjunct of Fine Gael.

Who exactly are the working classes ?

Those who sell their labour to a boss for a living. Factory workers, construction workers, the lower echelons of the public service as well as those in the services industries. In other words the vast majority of the Irish people.

Who are the elite ?

The super-rich, large employers, speculators, the financial classes and the political class. You know, the crowd who ruined the country and are now being bailed out by the plebs. Some of the more high profile ones are living all over the world; often working as "consultants" and the like.

The real working people are getting shafted not just to protect some elite who happen to be rich (as you might put it) or well connected, but to protect a certain class of people who did not even work during the celtic tiger/property bubble

Yeah right, it's the fault of the unemployed and the likes of nurses who are to blame for the state of the country and not the coalition of unregulated banks and property/construction magnates who ran riot and plunged the banking system into ruin.

God forbid we'd ever blame the "wealth creators", far easier to call the poor bastard who lost his job and now can't pay off his home or to blame someone working for the HSE.

Seanchai

FTA69 wrote: »

Of course they would. During the boom Fine Gael never attempted to call for moderation, or regulation or sanity of any sort. Instead they (as well as Labour) were feverishly trying to claim the credit for starting the whole casino capitalism rollercoaster that took place, wholly buying into the politics of greed and excess that Fianna Fáil presided over. While Fine Gael may not have the same tradition of ingrained cute hoority that the other crowd have (only because they haven't been in office as long), they're certainly cut from the same cloth. They espouse the same broad populist sh*te, have the same vaguely right-wing ideology and have displayed at times the same level of corruption. One only has to look at their record in government now, the status quo has prevailed where working people get shafted on a daily basis in the name of saving an elite.

You couldn't make it up like. Anyone who thinks Fine Gael are any more noble or committed to the average working person than Fianna Fáil were is bloody codding themselves to be honest.

Excellent post.

cast_iron

Deleted User wrote: »

Of course there is so many thick Yahoos in this country they still get 20% of the vote.:mad:

The problem isn't the "thick yahoos" as you call them. It's the fact that there is no credible alternative.

Whilst FF didn't exactly cover themselves in glory, they gave us exactly what we wanted - demonstrated by resounding success in elections until the house of cards fell down.

Until there is quite a shift in the way politics works in Ireland, populist politics will continue to triumph. The same 4 parties will dominate, so what does the voter do?

raymon

cast_iron wrote: »

Whilst FF didn't exactly cover themselves in glory, they gave us exactly what we wanted - demonstrated by resounding success in elections until the house of cards fell down.

I never voted FF , I always considered them far too dishonest.

Nothing has changed

So I disagree , I never wanted their theft , perjury, deception , corruption , and ultimate treachery

BobbyPropane

Fianna fail should not be in government for another15 years at least. Let's see what other parties can do in times of prosperity and let's make sure that they learn that this whole appeasement bull**** can't be repeated over and over. Theres a great article on this topic in the times last sunday

cast_iron

raymon wrote: »

I never voted FF

What you voted, or me, or Paddy down the road voted is irrelevant. It was clear from my post that I meant the electorate as a whole.

BobbyPropane wrote: »

Fianna fail should not be in government for another15 years at least. Let's see what other parties can do in times of prosperity and let's make sure that they learn that this whole appeasement bull**** can't be repeated over and over. Theres a great article on this topic in the times last sunday

Lots of people on here seem to have difficulty with how democracy works.

raymon

cast_iron wrote: »

It was clear from my post that I meant the electorate as a whole.

It was not clear at all. This argument of we got what we deserved is invalid.

You should have probably said "FF voters ruined it for everyone"

cast_iron

raymon wrote: »

It was not clear at all. This argument of we got what we deserved is invalid.

I didn't make that argument. The second half of that sentence qualified that I was referring to the electorate.

You should have probably said "FF voters ruined it for everyone"

That certainly could be argued to be a valid viewpoint. So could "the democratically elected and very popular party" viewpoint. Either way, unless you want to do away with democratic elections, your point doesn't really have merit.

raymon

cast_iron wrote: »

I didn't make that argument. The second half of that sentence qualified that I was referring to the electorate.

That certainly could be argued to be a valid viewpoint. So could "the democratically elected and very popular party" viewpoint. Either way, unless you want to do away with democratic elections, your point doesn't really have merit.

You said they gave us exactly what we wanted -

I don't agree with that

cast_iron

raymon wrote: »

You said they gave us exactly what we wanted -

I don't agree with that

Yes, I did say that (wanted, not deserved as you previously stated - two very different words).

I've backed up my point by way of the using the general election as a vote of approval for FF in 2007 (by the majority of Irish people).

While you are entitled to a different opinion of course, the line "I didn't vote for them" doesn't invalidate what I was saying in any way, because I never referred to you while making my point.

Sierra Oscar

The Journal.ie have a more balanced take on things, interesting article:

Column: Amid rising popularity, Fianna Fáil may just be relevant again

thebman

cast_iron wrote: »

What you voted, or me, or Paddy down the road voted is irrelevant. It was clear from my post that I meant the electorate as a whole.

Lots of people on here seem to have difficulty with how democracy works.

The thing is you can have a perfectly functioning democratic voting system.

If the politics is setup in such a way that national politicians influence local affairs and someone wants something for their locality then they will vote based on local issues and not national issues.

This seems to be the problem most people have with how our political system works on here.

It seems to be the thing our politicians want to change least given if they are elected, they have worked out how to pay the existing system to get elected.

Anyway whether FF bounce back or not will mostly depend on where the economy is come the next election for many.

For me, it will be the current governments progress on political reform that will decide how I vote.

mrrepublic

Come the next General election.
F.F. will make promises regarding property tax, water rates, car tax, childrens allowance, O.A.P. etc. and once again we will fall for the promised give away budget and thr whole cycle will begin again. F.F. comes first not the country.
The Sindo and friends appointed to high places over Decades will ensure F.F. will rise from the ashes.
The civil war politics has left us with gob****s that regardless of how a goverment behaves they will still vote the same way. These are the traitors that are to blame for all our woes.

Red Crow

You have to question where the problems lie. My biggest problem with Fine Gael is Kenny, Noonan and co. all stood in the Dáil calling for more spending, less cuts etc. Fianna Fail had to go though. We couldn't let them back in. Labour are probably the most useless party at the moment. They told students they wouldn't increase the fees and cut the grants and they have done the exact opposite. Now everything should be cut in moderation and everybody should bear the brunt of this massive debt we find ourselves stuck under. But why are people still getting social welfare rates that are far too high? Spending 60% of our budget on social protection is pure madness. It just shows how weak the Government is.

I don't know how Fianna Fail will be under the leadership of Martin in Government. I just don't think I could vote for Enda Kenny and Fine Gael again. I'd never consider voting for Labour. Has Fianna Fail changed? Probably not a whole lot. It'll take another 10-15 years to remove the old mentality that has killed the party for years. Our problem, as voters, is that there is no alternative. We badly need new political blood. I think in years ahead Historians will reflect upon this Government and the last as huge failures.

It saddens me as I thought Fine Gael/Labour would bring about change. They haven't. Enda Kenny has been a failure and the only thing this Goverment has done is effectively kicked the can down the road.

mrrepublic

Eli Manning wrote: »

You have to question where the problems lie. My biggest problem with Fine Gael is Kenny, Noonan and co. all stood in the Dáil calling for more spending, less cuts etc. Fianna Fail had to go though. We couldn't let them back in. Labour are probably the most useless party at the moment. They told students they wouldn't increase the fees and cut the grants and they have done the exact opposite. Now everything should be cut in moderation and everybody should bear the brunt of this massive debt we find ourselves stuck under. But why are people still getting social welfare rates that are far too high? Spending 60% of our budget on social protection is pure madness. It just shows how weak the Government is.

I don't know how Fianna Fail will be under the leadership of Martin in Government. I just don't think I could vote for Enda Kenny and Fine Gael again. I'd never consider voting for Labour. Has Fianna Fail changed? Probably not a whole lot. It'll take another 10-15 years to remove the old mentality that has killed the party for years. Our problem, as voters, is that there is no alternative. We badly need new political blood. I think in years ahead Historians will reflect upon this Government and the last as huge failures.

It saddens me as I thought Fine Gael/Labour would bring about change. They haven't. Enda Kenny has been a failure and the only thing this Goverment has done is effectively kicked the can down the road.

I agree with your comments and will also add.
And the previous three governments as corrlupt, traitors that continued the F.F. tradition of bankrupting the Country.
F.F. are not a Republican party but traitor to the people of this Island.

OCorcrainn

If FF win the next election I am emmigrating. If that does happen as it will be clear that the people here who would be complicit in that deserve everything they get.

rightwingdub

OCorcrainn wrote: »

If FF win the next election I am emmigrating. If that does happen as it will be clear that the people here who would be complicit in that deserve everything they get.

Tow opinion polls released to day have the FF traitors on 21% and 24% respectively, as soon as FF surpass FG in the polls and become the largest party the Republic of Ireland needs to be renamed The Republic of Thick Paddies.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0126/364669-opinion-poll-government/

OCorcrainn

OCorcrainn wrote: »

If FF win the next election I am emmigrating. If that does happen as it will be clear that the people here who would be complicit in that deserve everything they get.

Its looks like the smart ones left. It would make sense that those affiliated with FF probably had jobs due to there corrupt connections, and therefore did not emigrate.

The more normal Irish people that leave the bigger a percentage these thick yahoos at home represent. This will mean a repeat of the boom and bust over the next 20 years, very disappointing for anybody with an IQ over 5 to see.

cast_iron

Deleted User wrote: »

The more normal Irish people that leave the bigger a percentage these thick yahoos at home represent. This will mean a repeat of the boom and bust over the next 20 years, very disappointing for anybody with an IQ over 5 to see.

It's all grand saying that, but an intelligent person, who do you vote for? The reason FF show popularity is that there is no credible alternative.
If there was an election tomorrow, who would you vote for?