International Languages

knock knock whos there

I'm currently a 6th year student, looking to study languages, if there's anyone with knowledge of the International Languages course / languages in general that could tell me if it's difficult/worthwhile/etc

Thanks

Canard

I hate to badmouth it, but they've put in this godawful module this year called Shaping Modern Europe, it seems to be some kind of weird attempt to make it more like TCD's European Studies I think. None of us knew about it, and indeed many picked it over European Studies because they didnt want to do history, and yeah, its a horrendous, useless module and out of the 40 or so of us - all language lovers - not one person enjoys it.

Now for the positives. :P It's pretty awesome otherwise. You get a lot of choice of languages, only downside is French has no oral components in the first semester and Spanish only has them for advanced, though my friends in beginners German have been having orals. Picking up new languages is really easy if you have the aptitude and interest, so if you're doing that I'd definitely ignore the coordinators who tell you not to take up 2 from scratch - big mistake that I listened to that. You can get stuck with awful modules like Hispanic Culture, Reading French etc, when you could have more actual language learning going on.

I find it really enjoyable and I can actually have a decent conversation in Spanish after just one semester. The teachers are almost all native too. If you love languages it's definitely a course you'd like.

RMD

The School of Languages and Literature in UCD is well run and the teaching staff for the most part are native, those that aren't are fluent. That said, language at university level is also quite difficult. What type of results are you getting in languages right now? It's not to put you off, more so just so that you know it wont by any means by easy. If you like languages though and want to study a few it's a great course, AFAIK it also guarantees an Erasmus which is a serious bonus as you wont have to compete for one which makes life that bit easier.

knock knock whos there

Thanks for answering! I'm doing 2 languages for the LC, expecting an A1 in both and I really would like to take multiple languages next year, the history/literature component, is that done through english, or through your chosen language(s)?

Is there a feeling of the course being too large? (being mixed in with general arts) How much time is spent with just your course?

If you chose it over European Studies in TCD, why is that? How much of the course is language learning? How easy is it to take a third language?

Canard

knock knock whos there wrote: »

Thanks for answering! I'm doing 2 languages for the LC, expecting an A1 in both and I really would like to take multiple languages next year, the history/literature component, is that done through english, or through your chosen language(s)?

Is there a feeling of the course being too large? (being mixed in with general arts) How much time is spent with just your course?

If you chose it over European Studies in TCD, why is that? How much of the course is language learning? How easy is it to take a third language?

It depends kinda. The Shaping of Europe module is done through English because everyone in the whole course studies it. Reading French is done through both kind of, you have to read French texts but everything (even the exam questions which are asked in French) is answered through English. It's the same for German Textual Analysis I've heard, but for ones like Hispanic Culture you do it in English because they mix beginners and advanced, and they can't expect beginners to have that ability yet.

International Languages doesn't feel large tbh, you get to know a lot of people Almost all the people I hang out with around the campus who I didn't know beforehand are from International Languages. You all see each other in the core module and, even though you're mixed with mainstream arts in the small group classes, there'll always be IL students there too. Another thing is the special exception made for us if we want to do Spanish and German - time slots are switched around in a way that isn't done for mainstream arts students, so it's likely if you were to do those two you'd be in with a lot of ILers.

I chose it over European Studies simply because I have 0 interest in learning about politics, culture, history or anything like that. I also didn't like Trinity's campus at all. :P There'd be a lot of language learning for you if you do 3 languages because it means you can avoid some cultural stuff, lucky!

Picking up a new language is really, really easy tbh. When you say you're expecting 2 A1s, do you mean Irish and a European language? It doesnt make much difference, but some of my friends got A1s in French and did OL Irish; there seems to be some weird hatred for it. :P Personally my two were Irish and French only, no second European one, so I took up Spanish and it's really easy. If you enjoy linking similarities in languages, you'll have no problem at all. Some of my friends do 2 advanced languages and 1 beginners and also have no trouble, plus there's a 2 week period where you can switch out if you're finding things difficult, but it should be fine.

knock knock whos there

When I say two languages, I mean two european languages

What do you mean switch out? Out of the third language?

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question by the way, I appreciate it

Canard

knock knock whos there wrote: »

When I say two languages, I mean two european languages

What do you mean switch out? Out of the third language?

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question by the way, I appreciate it

Oh you'll be fine then Lots of my friends had French and German/Spanish and picked up Spanish/Italian and love it, so you should love it too

And yep, you can switch your modules around in the first two weeks. So say you did the 3 languages - you might have French language, French reading, Spanish language, Hispanic Culture, German language and German linguistics. If you found a new language (German lets say) was too much to do with 2 advanced, you can switch those two german modules for things like Hispanic Texts/French Reading 2, which you might have not otherwise chosen. One thing I'll say is that French has a considerably higher standard than the other advanced languages, but it's still amazing.

And no problem, I like to help.

knock knock whos there

You're full of information Thanks for the help!

Canard

No problem!

eoinseoighe12

Hi there,

I am also studying 2 european languages (French and Italian) and I am thinking about studying both of them in college next year with a view then to go into second level teaching afterwards. I am trying to decide between TSM French and Italian in TCD or International Languages in UCD.

Simply, which one should I do? Which is better?

Canard

It probably depends on your own opinions of what constitutes good teaching. Saying this in the least biased way possible, I got the points for TCD but chose UCD over it because I've heard its absolutely awful for languages from a number of people. I didn't want to take that chance and the open day wasn't exactly convincing when I went, but maybe asking in the TCD forum can give you a more informed opinion. UCD has so many native speakers that you really learn the language properly the first time - i.e. you'll never really hear mispronunciations, as long as you try not to listen to classmates too closely :P - and I don't know for sure, but I've heard you only have grammar lectures through the language you're learning in TCD. That kind of defeats the purpose imo, because grammar should be in English to be understood properly, which it is in UCD.

The only flaw with UCD is that you get no oral modules in the first semester. A pretty big flaw, admittedly. But you get them in the second one and if you really want to, you're allowed to go to the offices and speak to the natives.

You could also minor in a third language like Spanish if you were up for it or do electives in things like linguistics.

eoinseoighe12

Patchy~ wrote: »

It probably depends on your own opinions of what constitutes good teaching. Saying this in the least biased way possible, I got the points for TCD but chose UCD over it because I've heard its absolutely awful for languages from a number of people. I didn't want to take that chance and the open day wasn't exactly convincing when I went, but maybe asking in the TCD forum can give you a more informed opinion. UCD has so many native speakers that you really learn the language properly the first time - i.e. you'll never really hear mispronunciations, as long as you try not to listen to classmates too closely :P - and I don't know for sure, but I've heard you only have grammar lectures through the language you're learning in TCD. That kind of defeats the purpose imo, because grammar should be in English to be understood properly, which it is in UCD.

The only flaw with UCD is that you get no oral modules in the first semester. A pretty big flaw, admittedly. But you get them in the second one and if you really want to, you're allowed to go to the offices and speak to the natives.

You could also minor in a third language like Spanish if you were up for it or do electives in things like linguistics.

Thanks a million. My next question relates to what you can do afterwards. I've heard so many times "you can do really what ever you want" but I'm looking for a less vague and more specific answer.

If I am to study International Languages therefore coming out of college with 2 fluent languages and possibly a third, what career routes are open to me besides translating. I would be very keen to work in Politics/ Civil Service/ European Union or on the flip side in Business. Should I therefore do a Business with a language (French) course or would I be better off having purely 2 languages?

Thanks!

Canard

eoinseoighe12 wrote: »

Thanks a million. My next question relates to what you can do afterwards. I've heard so many times "you can do really what ever you want" but I'm looking for a less vague and more specific answer.

If I am to study International Languages therefore coming out of college with 2 fluent languages and possibly a third, what career routes are open to me besides translating. I would be very keen to work in Politics/ Civil Service/ European Union or on the flip side in Business. Should I therefore do a Business with a language (French) course or would I be better off having purely 2 languages?

Thanks!

I haven't looked into it too extensively, but from what I can tell it seems to actually be quite a useful degree, the reason being that one half of people write it off as "arts will never get you anywhere" and the other half as "they're too difficult, I'll stick with the 'softer' arts", or people interested in business just dive into commerce and no one stops to pick up any languages, despite the huge lack that's always being talked about; and on top of that I've heard a huge portion of people who graduate with a BA in a language and a non-language are actually lacking in their languages. Not all of course, just some, so properly skilled language degree holders are quite desirable.

I've heard to work in the EU at all you need to be multilingual, so that's a start there. Regarding business, my advice might be a bit unusual. I was going to do that in UCD (Commerce International) but you only end up fluent in one language, whereas I feel personally that if you're fluent in 2 and your native tongue then just get a) some experience in business or b) some smaller kind of qualification in business, you'd be almost in the same position. Anyone I know in commerce just does essays on management theory etc, and many people run businesses having never studied it in their lives - but if you find it really interesting then go for it! Personally I love languages so that's why I was more pulled to doing them purely.

Another option would be to use your electives on Political Science or do it as a third subject through mainstream arts. You won't be able to minor in it, but you can still have it on your transcript. I don't know a whole lot about the year abroad yet, but I think if you went to France you'd be able to study Polsci in French, giving you all the specialist vocabulary they'd like you to have in the EU.

Sorry for the essay of a post, just some ideas that were coming to mind, best to investigate any that interest you because I wouldn't know the full ins and outs but yeah, hope that helps a bit!

delarge

I didn't want to open a new thread since here is discussed exactly what interests me, so I hope it's not a problem to post in an 8 months old thread.

Anyway.. I'm more or less of in the same situation as a knock knock whos there - also have to choose between TSM French and Italian at TCD and International Languages at UCD. So far I've got an offer from UCD (transfer to the 2nd year) and am still waiting for TCD's decision. Since I'm not from Ireland it's not possible for me to come to Dublin and see which campus I prefer so I have to collect information online

I'm looking for more inside info which maybe can't be found on UCD website, ie how much emphasis is put on literature and how seriously it is studied, how many courses are dedicated to translation/oral/grammar, are there enough optional courses to satisfy everyone's interests, are lectures well-organised and professors generally willing to help...?

Any information of this or similar kind would be MUCH appreciated.

Canard

delarge wrote: »

I didn't want to open a new thread since here is discussed exactly what interests me, so I hope it's not a problem to post in an 8 months old thread.

Anyway.. I'm more or less of in the same situation as a knock knock whos there - also have to choose between TSM French and Italian at TCD and International Languages at UCD. So far I've got an offer from UCD (transfer to the 2nd year) and am still waiting for TCD's decision. Since I'm not from Ireland it's not possible for me to come to Dublin and see which campus I prefer so I have to collect information online

I'm looking for more inside info which maybe can't be found on UCD website, ie how much emphasis is put on literature and how seriously it is studied, how many courses are dedicated to translation/oral/grammar, are there enough optional courses to satisfy everyone's interests, are lectures well-organised and professors generally willing to help...?

Any information of this or similar kind would be MUCH appreciated.

It's hard to say with literature, I wouldn't know if it's a relatively large emphasis or not since I only know what UCD is like. French has core literature modules (which is ridiculously stupid, you should be allowed to pick your poison :pac:), but Spanish doesn't, and as far as I know Italian and German don't either. You do have to choose the same amount in each, but you get to choose, that's the difference. It's quite hard to excel though. They don't tell you what they want you to do, they just tell you to "analyse" it, all quite vague.

Translation/oral/grammar is excellent in French. They really do teach you what you need to know and give you the resources to ensure you understand it. They have tutors every year and it's all very organised. Spanish is the total opposite so it's not all rosy, but from what I've heard of Italian, it's pretty good too and the teachers are always willing to help and good at explaining.

There isn't a whole lot of choice for next year in French tbh. They removed a module which looked good and it was about living in France, now there's a stupid one about making powerpoints on French culture or something - haven't looked much into it because I decided I'm not doing it. The other options are The Enlightenment, Second Language Acquisition and 19th Century Poetry - none very riveting, and the last of which is a poetry version of the core literature module. I don't think Trinity's selection is very different though; I've heard it's even older stuff.

Basically, there's a lot more non-language than language stuff, but that's the norm for language courses. Any language modules are generally taught very well. Hope this helped somewhat.

delarge

Thank you, it really does help! I'm actually quite passionate about literature, culture and even history so I don't mind studying non-language stuff.

Have you been to erasmus or another exchange program? I saw that Ucd has agreements with a lot of universities in France and Canada, are they open to all students from all academic areas or there are certain universities that you can choose to study French?

And one more question. Is it possible to major in both languages or it's the same as in Tcd where you major in one and minor in another?

Canard

delarge wrote: »

Thank you, it really does help! I'm actually quite passionate about literature, culture and even history so I don't mind studying non-language stuff.

Have you been to erasmus or another exchange program? I saw that Ucd has agreements with a lot of universities in France and Canada, are they open to all students from all academic areas or there are certain universities that you can choose to study French?

And one more question. Is it possible to major in both languages or it's the same as in Tcd where you major in one and minor in another?

Ah, sounds like this course would really suit you then! There's actually core modules specifically for people in the course, this year (2nd year) it'll be The European Project, as far as I know it's all about how Europe became an entity after WWII.

I haven't been away yet, I'm actually just finished first year, so it's something I have to start looking into. I know you can go to places like Norway for Politics (despite there being no Norwegian language course in UCD), so I'd say it's possible to go to universities that people go to for learning languages, but for other reasons, if that makes sense? Like French students can go to McGill or University of Montreal, but so can business students (but I'd say commerce with French gets priority).

It's possible to major in both. There's actually a cool thing where if you did 3 languages in first year, although you have to drop one of them, if you keep its language modules on as electives they recognize that you did "structured electives" - and rightfully so I suppose, because it's not that different to an actual minor in the subject! A lot of people don't bother though, because you can't really get to the same level as those who'll live in that country if you're just doing it for fun. (The point I'm making is UCD has quite a few options, but yes, double major is an option, as is major/minor :P)

delarge

I probably didn't express myself clearly enough regarding erasmus (foreign kid...haha), but nevermind - I also just realised that I hadn't looked carefully at the list of the unis offered and therefore had misunderstood something. BUT it's all clear now

Thanks for the responses, I still have to réfléchir a bit but maybe I'll see you in a while :P

Canard

I may also have picked you up wrong, sorry :P But glad its clear now!

Haha, hopefully you'll make the best choice possible *cough* UCD *cough* Bonne chance with whichever you choose anyway!