Irish names into English

This will probably go down like a lead balloon but I was wondering if anybody could help translate some Irish names into English please? For example "O'Raghaill" has me completely stumped. Go raibh maith agat!

An gal gréine

Reighill
There should be no apostrophe in the Irish version you have.
Ó Raghaill

Not "Ryall"?

An gal gréine

Just checked that out and yes it's the same family name for Ryall and Ryle too.

Gumbi

I just want to point out that names don't "translate". There are Irish "versions" and English ones. It's an important distinction I feel.

P. Breathnach

Gumbi wrote: »

I just want to point out that names don't "translate". There are Irish "versions" and English ones. It's an important distinction I feel.

I'd take an even stronger position: I recognise only one form of my name, whether I am using Irish or English.

Nevertheless, I have no issue with anybody taking an interest in matching Irish and English names. Half of my ancestors in the 19th century were monoglot Irish speakers, yet they are recorded in official documents under an "Englished" name. The Anglicisation was not consistent. I found an Uí Raghaill becoming Real, Reale, and Ryle (they're the ones I remember without digging into my files).

Gumbi

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd take an even stronger position: I recognise only one form of my name, whether I am using Irish or English.

Nevertheless, I have no issue with anybody taking an interest in matching Irish and English names. Half of my ancestors in the 19th century were monoglot Irish speakers, yet they are recorded in official documents under an "Englished" name. The Anglicisation was not consistent. I found an Uí Raghaill becoming Real, Reale, and Ryle (they're the ones I remember without digging into my files).

I would tend to agree with this.

gerrybbadd

I always wondered what Sorcha was in English... Or how to pronounce it properly!

Feathers

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I'd take an even stronger position: I recognise only one form of my name, whether I am using Irish or English.

Nevertheless, I have no issue with anybody taking an interest in matching Irish and English names. Half of my ancestors in the 19th century were monoglot Irish speakers, yet they are recorded in official documents under an "Englished" name. The Anglicisation was not consistent. I found an Uí Raghaill becoming Real, Reale, and Ryle (they're the ones I remember without digging into my files).

As a matter of interest (if you don't mind me asking), is your given name as Gaeilge originally? I've always wanted to use the Irish version of my name, though have never felt that I had enough Irish to use it (I'm not sure why I tied the too together so strongly).

But when I do start to use my name as Gaeilge I think that I'll still retain an affinity for the English version as it's what I've grown up with.

P. Breathnach

Feathers wrote: »

As a matter of interest (if you don't mind me asking), is your given name as Gaeilge originally? I've always wanted to use the Irish version of my name, though have never felt that I had enough Irish to use it (I'm not sure why I tied the too together so strongly).

But when I do start to use my name as Gaeilge I think that I'll still retain an affinity for the English version as it's what I've grown up with.

Right back to my birth certificate. That makes it simple for me to identify with only one name.

If you ever adopt an Irish form of your name, chances are that you won't be able to make a complete conversion: families usually stick with whatever name was used in your childhood years.

Feathers

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Right back to my birth certificate. That makes it simple for me to identify with only one name.

If you ever adopt an Irish form of your name, chances are that you won't be able to make a complete conversion: families usually stick with whatever name was used in your childhood years.

Sure, I don't think I'll mind that to be honest — they're both my name in my eyes. In the same way friends call me by a nickname too, even though it's not my name in any way, but it's still me through use. I don't think I'll expect everyone to use the Irish version of my name, they can use what they're comfortable with, which works for me.

I guess I'd like to use the Irish version of my name primarily as I think that's a part of who we are as a people, that was repressed but that I think would be wonderful to be brought to the fore again and celebrated as part of our individual and collective indentities (don't know if this makes much sense — hard to explain & also I'm after wine taken :pac:)

I think what will be most difficult will be living in England — people in Ireland understand the dual name concept, even if some people think you've ideas of the D4 Gaelscoil stereotype about you for wanting to use it. It will be difficult to turn around in work & tell the English crowd to start using my Irish name — can't picture the reaction.

mcmoustache

gerrybbadd wrote: »

I always wondered what Sorcha was in English... Or how to pronounce it properly!

There isn't really a direct translation since they have different roots but people use Sarah or Sally (according to wiki). Sorcha is not a translation of anything though so the idea of a Sorcha in English doesn't really work. Feel free to translate all your "Pól"s, "Marcus"es and "Maitiú"s, though - they're biblical and international.

As for pronunciation of Sorcha, I'm not sure I can help. It's pronounced exactly as it's written. I'm not trying to be smart but there are no odd compounds there.

Bodhran

As far as I know the name Sorcha is pronounced SORKA.

Often wondered what the English version of Eanna Ní Lamhna's name is. She does the wildlife spot on the Derek Mooney show on Fridays.

Gumbi

Bodhran wrote: »

As far as I know the name Sorcha is pronounced SORKA.

Often wondered what the English version of Eanna Ní Lamhna's name is. She does the wildlife spot on the Derek Mooney show on Fridays.

It is mis-pronounced without the guttural "ch" sound. Also, it's closer to SUReKHEH (the e in the middle being slight, almost unheard).

KKkitty

Bodhran wrote: »

As far as I know the name Sorcha is pronounced SORKA.

Often wondered what the English version of Eanna Ní Lamhna's name is. She does the wildlife spot on the Derek Mooney show on Fridays.

Eanna is a derivative of Enda. It's translation is bird-like.

Bodhran

KKkitty wrote: »

Eanna is a derivative of Enda. It's translation is bird-like.

Thanks for that but it was really the "Ní Lamhna" part I was wondering about.

somairle

I can vouch for what P Breathnach said, I changed my name to the Irish version a few years ago when I was mad into learning Irish and when you have grown up being known by another name it is really difficult to get people to change what they call you, especially when it's an Irish name that isn't obvious like Seán & Eoin that people know. In the end I just accepted people knew me by what they knew me by and that wasnt going to change, so I started using my English name again. Had I been born with an Irish name and grown up people using it it would be a different story but now I only use my Irish name when speaking Irish, kinda like a double identity, but unfortunately it's only Irish speakers who understand and can pronounce it. The vast vast majority of my life is through English and given my name isn't Gaelic in origin I don't see the need to use a Gaelicised version in my everyday life anymore.

As for Ní Lamhna I don't know what that would be, possibly Hann or Hand which is common in Louth where she is from?

Ive head Sorcha pronounced as Sorra-huh with no K sound, it was a character on Turas Teanga

ChemHickey

I know several Sorchas and they pronounce it

"Sore-shah"

An elongated first syllable :P And a soft "ch" like in French :P

Gumbi

ChemHickey wrote: »

I know several Sorchas and they pronounce it

"Sore-shah"

An elongated first syllable :P And a soft "ch" like in French :P

Huh? That can't be right... Err, are you thinking of Saoirse?

An gal gréine

somairle wrote: »

Ive head Sorcha pronounced as Sorra-huh with no K sound, it was a character on Turas Teanga

That's the Northern pronunciation, like Taoi-shah for Taoiseach

P. Breathnach

An gal gréine wrote: »

That's the Northern pronunciation, like Taoi-shah for Taoiseach

Disagree: that feature of Ulster pronunciation would give us sorr-aha (which I would recognise as being correct Ulster Irish pronunciation).

The sore-shah pronunciation is an abomination. I think Gumbi pointed to the source of the problem: the conflation of Sorcha and Saoirse.

Gumbi

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Disagree: that feature of Ulster pronunciation would give us sorr-aha (which I would recognise as being correct Ulster Irish pronunciation).

The sore-shah pronunciation is an abomination. I think Gumbi pointed to the source of the problem: the conflation of Sorcha and Saoirse.

It certainly is an abomination if it's actually a mis-pronunciation of Sorcha I was hoping the poster's friend was called Saoirse.

An gal gréine

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Disagree: that feature of Ulster pronunciation would give us sorr-aha (which I would recognise as being correct Ulster Irish pronunciation).

The sore-shah pronunciation is an abomination. I think Gumbi pointed to the source of the problem: the conflation of Sorcha and Saoirse.

It was Somairle I was responding to, not ChemHickey.
The sore-shah pronunciation which I had'nt referred to is I'd say
what some people guessed how Sorcha was pronounced when
they saw it written. Surely parents dont call their daughter that :eek:

P. Breathnach

An gal gréine wrote: »

It was Somairle I was responding to, not ChemHickey.

Apologies. Lapse of attention on my part.

The sore-shah pronunciation which I had'nt referred to is I'd say
what some people guessed how Sorcha was pronounced when
they saw it written. Surely parents dont call their daughter that :eek:

I know one girl who spells her name Sorcha and thinks of herself as Sore-shah. She has virtually no Irish, but I don't know her parents, so cannot judge whether the pronunciation was based on an Anglicised reading of Irish phonics.

I find myself thinking of her as George.

ChemHickey

Gumbi wrote: »

Huh? That can't be right... Err, are you thinking of Saoirse?

Apologies for dragging up an old thread but I only saw this now and I'm 100% certain their names are Sorcha and they pronounce it that way. And each of them are fluent (with a high degree of Irish!) and I was given out to by one of them several times for calling her Sorcha (the "normal" way of saying it).

An Sionnach Glic

KKkitty wrote: »

Eanna is a derivative of Enda. It's translation is bird-like.

Enda is a derivative of Éanna, you mean. The English version came from the Irish version and not the other way around.

Moonbeam

We gave the kids Irish 1st names and our surname as gaeilge on their birth certs. The schools would use the irish translation of their surname anyway and they speak irish. Our surname is the translation for about 10 other surnames too though so it will be fun when I have them all in school:)

Fizzical

Can I ask how to pronounce Soinbhe?

I've heard Sone-ve, Sun-ve and also Sun-eeva...

Was never sure what to say.

Gumbi

Fizzical wrote: »

Can I ask how to pronounce Soinbhe?

I've heard Sone-ve, Sun-ve and also Sun-eeva...

Was never sure what to say.

I've never seen it before, but my immediate inclination, assuming it's an Irish word, is "sin-veh". It's definitely neither the first nor the last of your suggestions, you might get away with the middle one.

EricBlaine

-

Fizzical

Anyone know if there's an Irish version of Rachel?

hullaballoo

Ráchael.

It's derived from a Hebrew name so there is no real translation. Translating names is an awful waste of time anyway. My given name in English is nothing like the Irish for it. English people went around Ireland asking people their names, like Starbucks do today. They then made up their own approximations.

There are some names that have equivalents in other languages, e.g., Pól, Paul, Pablo, Paulo etc. but that is usually more to do with the spread of Christianity or invasion etc.

Rachel is believed to mean a number of things. If you want an approximated translation, I'd go with Róis or Róisín.

Gumbi

hullaballoo wrote: »

Ráchael.

It's derived from a Hebrew name so there is no real translation. Translating names is an awful waste of time anyway. My given name in English is nothing like the Irish for it. English people went around Ireland asking people their names, like Starbucks do today. They then made up their own approximations.

There are some names that have equivalents in other languages, e.g., Pól, Paul, Pablo, Paulo etc. but that is usually more to do with the spread of Christianity or invasion etc.

Rachel is believed to mean a number of things. If you want an approximated translation, I'd go with Róis or Róisín.

That violates Irish spelling rules.

deirdremf

Gumbi wrote: »

That violates Irish spelling rules.

How so? It looks fine to me - as fine as Gael, anyway!

Gumbi

deirdremf wrote: »

How so? It looks fine to me - as fine as Gael, anyway!

I meant to say convention. I don't know. It looks wrong to me as a whole.

Moonbeam

Fizzical wrote: »

Anyone know if there's an Irish version of Rachel?

No there is not.
This disappoints my kids greatly as they all have lovely irish names.

An Sionnach Glic

Rachel is Ráchael in the Irish language version of the Bible, which seems like a fairly authorative (linguistic) source to me. Especially when you consider that Pádraig Ó Fiannachta, native Irish speaker and one of the most pre-eminent Irish scholars of our day was the editor of the modern edition.

P. Breathnach

An Sionnach Glic wrote: »

Rachel is Ráchael in the Irish language version of the Bible, which seems like a fairly authorative (linguistic) source to me. Especially when you consider that Pádraig Ó Fiannachta, native Irish speaker and one of the most pre-eminent Irish scholars of our day was the editor of the modern edition.

How would you pronounce Ráchael?

An Sionnach Glic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

How would you pronounce Ráchael?

Like this below, I would presume.

http://www.abair.tcd.ie/?view=listen&lang=gle&page=synthesis&synth=cm_V2&xpos=0&ypos=24&speed=Gn%C3%A1thluas&pitch=1.0&input=R%C3%A1chael&xmlfile=20131105_181721.xml&colors=default

An Riabhach

Fizzical wrote: »

Anyone know if there's an Irish version of Rachel?

I have also seen it written as "Rícheal".

Many biblical Irish language names are different from the everyday Irish versions.,e.g.
Ráchael-Rícheal(Rachel)
Muire-Máire(Mary)
Eiliosaibeit-Eilís(Elizabeth)
Ribeaceá-Ríobhca(Rebecca)
Iósaf-Seosamh(Joseph)
Dáiví-Dáithí(David)
Eoin-Seán(John)
Iasón-Séasán(Jason)
Aindrias-Aindriú(Andrew)
Míocáel-Mícheál(Michael)

An Riabhach

Moonbeam wrote: »

No there is not.
This disappoints my kids greatly as they all have lovely irish names.

If the teachers told you that,don't listen to them-they know eff all about names.
They told me that there was no Irish for "Jason" in both primary and secondary,and yet there are two Irish versions unfortunately still relatively unfamiliar-"Séasán" and "Iasón".

An gal gréine

Seasan wrote: »

I have also seen it written as "Rícheal".

Many biblical Irish language names are different from the everyday Irish versions.,e.g.
Ráchael-Rícheal(Rachel)
Muire-Máire(Mary)
Eiliosaibeit-Eilís(Elizabeth)
Ribeaceá-Ríobhca(Rebecca)
Iósaf-Seosamh(Joseph)
Dáiví-Dáithí(David)
Eoin-Seán(John)
Iasón-Séasán(Jason)
Aindrias-Aindriú(Andrew)
Míocáel-Mícheál(Michael)

...agus Maois-Maodhóg (Moses).

Moonbeam

Seasan wrote: »

If the teachers told you that,don't listen to them-they know eff all about names.
They told me that there was no Irish for "Jason" in both primary and secondary,and yet there are two Irish versions unfortunately still relatively unfamiliar-"Séasán" and "Iasón".

No it was the 6 summers in irish college:) My name is Rachael as opposed to Rachel but not as if anyone ever spells it correctly in english!

An Riabhach

Moonbeam wrote: »

No it was the 6 summers in irish college:) My name is Rachael as opposed to Rachel but not as if anyone ever spells it correctly in english!

Bet you're glad you're on this thread-now you can choose from two Irish versions ;-)

Somebody explained earlier how to pronounce "Ráchael",but as for "Rícheal" I can only guess that it would go something like "Ree-hyal"...but this stands to be corrected by other posters.

Ar aon nós,bain sásamh as d'ainm Gaelach nua!!

An Sionnach Glic

Seasan wrote: »

Bet you're glad you're on this thread-now you can choose from two Irish versions ;-)

Somebody explained earlier how to pronounce "Ráchael",but as for "Rícheal" I can only guess that it would go something like "Ree-hyal"...but this stands to be corrected by other posters.

Ar aon nós,bain sásamh as d'ainm Gaelach nua!!

You can check the pronunciation of any Irish word in two different dialects at www.abair.ie

An Riabhach

Just out of curiosity-regarding unknown/unfamiliar Irish names which are generally not included on English/Gaeilge names lists in books etc.,how would one go about compiling a list of such names and their Irish forms-just so as to have one in order to avoid ignorance and uncertainty etc.?

An Sionnach Glic

Seasan wrote: »

Just out of curiosity-regarding unknown/unfamiliar Irish names which are generally not included on English/Gaeilge names lists in books etc.,how would one go about compiling a list of such names and their Irish forms-just so as to have one in order to avoid ignorance and uncertainty etc.?

Well for Biblical names, there's this as a WORD file:
http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gaeilge.ie%2Fdynamic%2Fdocs%2FAinmneacha%2520D%25C3%25ADlse%2520an%2520Nua-Thiomna.doc&ei=0NmLUur_NOG47AbzlICwBA&usg=AFQjCNETycoov3Jlyo7jnM8ewBZQU70rxg&bvm=bv.56643336,d.ZGU&cad=rja

which you can also get in book form from here:

http://www.litriocht.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=5222

feargale

I haven't read this all of this thread, and I'm sorry if I'm repeating something. There is a very comprehensive little book on this subject called " An Sloinnteoir Gaeilge - agus an t-Ainmneoir." I think it will tell you everything you want to know about Irish first names and surnames. First printed in 1996 and reprinted several times since. You should be able to get it in An Siopa Gaelach, 5 Harcourt Street, D2. I got a second-hand one for €5.99 in Chapters last week. I imagine you'll pay double that for a new one.

An Riabhach

feargale wrote: »

I haven't read this all of this thread, and I'm sorry if I'm repeating something. There is a very comprehensive little book on this subject called " An Sloinnteoir Gaeilge - agus an t-Ainmneoir." I think it will tell you everything you want to know about Irish first names and surnames. First printed in 1996 and reprinted several times since. You should be able to get it in An Siopa Gaelach, 5 Harcourt Street, D2. I got a second-hand one for €5.99 in Chapters last week. I imagine you'll pay double that for a new one.

Muiris Ó Droighneáin.

Yep-I have this book too,and it was one of the sources of finding the correct Irish for my surname,which teachers at school yet again did not know.

But as good as this book is,there are many first names which are not listed....

feargale

Seasan wrote: »

Muiris Ó Droighneáin.

Yep-I have this book too,and it was one of the sources of finding the correct Irish for my surname,which teachers at school yet again did not know.

But as good as this book is,there are many first names which are not listed....

True, many first names are not listed, and of course it's English to Irish only, not vice-versa. It's useful though,