Breastfeeding for longer + cosleeping

Hannibal Smith

Squiggler wrote: »

I had L in the Coombe in September, he was in the crib thing they provided for about 30 minutes in total in the 15 or so hours he spent in the hospital. After the birth he was given to me straight away. I carried him to the room.

When I did put him in the crib so we could get some sleep (I was nervous of the narrow bed) he threw up and got really upset. I took him into the bed with me and put his face level with mine, he calmed down straight away and then reached up both hands to my face. We fell asleep like that.

After that I just kept him with me and nobody said anything.

Awww I so miss the early days for that...when they're so tiny and working on just instinct and seeing you and smelling you soothes them. nothing compares to it. I love those little moments.

Quality

Breast fed all 3,
not too long on the first a couple of weeks, cant remember much of this, but remember she like to stretch out after being fed.

the second was 8-9 months when weaned, he settled in his cot no problem after feeds.

The final baby was 11 months when weaned, he co slept from day one, he was a sickly baby, special care the first night, problems with the feeding at the start and he would not settle in his basket. at all..

i mean he knew when I wasnt close, he could smell me,

He slept in with us more or less the whole time I fed him, He is always very reliant with us.

He would snuggle in under my boob,


Very affectionate child.

Do whatever feels right.

Just dont have a smoker or drinker in the bed with you.. or if you have sleep problems and dont do drugs, sleeping tablets etc.. I know its only obvious stuff and you wouldnt be doing it any while breastfeeding.. but just common sense to take into consideration.

0ctober

Yeah a midwife in the Coombe put H in the bed with me when she wouldn't settle on our second night. She rolled up a blanket and popped it behind H and then told me to try get some sleep and that she would keep an eye on us. I find that when I have her in the bed I don't move at all in my sleep, literally wake up in the same position I fell asleep in. It's like mammy's instinct

lounakin

January wrote: »

Same when I was in the Rotunda in 2008 and 2001. No babies allowed in beds and if you dozed off they'd wake you and make you put baby in cot.

The Coombe were a lot more relaxed in 2010, if you were dozing they'd keep an eye on you and leave baby be.

I remember telling the nurses I didn't want to sleep, I'd just be in bed with my baby and look at her but they didn't even allow me to do that! It was one of the worst experience of my life and I couldn't wait to get out of there. They tried their best to get me to stay in, telling me I was putting my baby in danger!

MrTsSnickers

Tip EX wrote: »

I would love to see the statistics of baby fatalities while in a BED compared to those babies who die alone in a cot.

Most co-sleeping deaths are babies asleep on a sofa or being suffocated by someone drunk.

Source?

It is the most natural way to sleep for many reasons. It is extremely unnatural for a young baby to sleep alone in their own room and is usually done for the parents benefit, not the baby's.

Is it? Source?

If they had a choice, a baby would obviously choose to sleep with their Mother.

Would they now? Developmental Psychology expert are we? Source?

lounakin

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

Would they now? Developmental Psychology expert are we? Source?

I don't think it really takes an expert to imagine that a baby would rather sleep with their mother... it's all around us in nature, including mammals. Chimps and gorillas not only sleep and carry their young for years but also nurse them for very long.
I really think it should be up to the mother's judgement to chose what they feel is right. Most of us have the right instinct and for those who have no clue and who would leave a baby on a sofa, there are guidelines and let's hope they follow them. Unfortunately children are vulnerable and there's nothing we can do to prevent every death.

NextSteps

In Holles Street they put baby in the bed with me to show me how to breastfeed lying down, but not at night, I don't think.

MrTsSnickers

lounakin wrote: »

I don't think it really takes an expert to imagine that a baby would rather sleep with their mother... it's all around us in nature, including mammals. Chimps and gorillas not only sleep and carry their young for years but also nurse them for very long.
I really think it should be up to the mother's judgement to chose what they feel is right. Most of us have the right instinct and for those who have no clue and who would leave a baby on a sofa, there are guidelines and let's hope they follow them. Unfortunately children are vulnerable and there's nothing we can do to prevent every death.

I agree, but it should not be purported as fact, some children [and parents] prefer to sleep apart. A parent doesn't fail at parenting because they don't sleep with the baby. Also, aren't chimps/apes etc under threat from the leaders of the shrewdness/troop? Again, I'm not necessarily arguing with you but I genuinely feel that it is valid to say, different strokes for different folks. That other poster suggested that the only time a baby might pass away while co-sleeping is when the parent is compromised through alcohol or other means ans that's simply untrue. I think that while co-sleeping works for some families, it has horrific results for others.

I feel that a baby should be in their own cot/crib and should be able to self sooth to some extent, not where they're in hysterics obviously, but having the baby "wait a minute" does the child no harm, in my view. Also, there seems to be an air, in the post that I quoted that if a parent doesn't feel like co sleeping is for them, whatever the reason, whether they just don't want to or the baby is a particularly awkward sleeper, they're not parenting properly.

LegacyUser

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I agree, but it should not be purported as fact, some children [and parents] prefer to sleep apart. A parent doesn't fail at parenting because they don't sleep with the baby. Also, aren't chimps/apes etc under threat from the leaders of the shrewdness/troop? Again, I'm not necessarily arguing with you but I genuinely feel that it is valid to say, different strokes for different folks.

Like I said, a baby would choose to sleep with their mother....to deny this is deluding yourself. Look around you. And it is not just animals, humans all over the world sleep with their infants.

Cot death is unheard of in many parts of the world for this very reason. It is an extremely healthy, normal practice.

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

That other poster suggested that the only time a baby might pass away while co-sleeping is when the parent is compromised through alcohol or other means ans that's simply untrue. I think that while co-sleeping works for some families, it has horrific results for others.

What about babies that die alone in a cot? That's an accident I suppose, nothing could have been done I suppose.....whereas co-sleeping can have "horrific results".

What guff.

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

I feel that a baby should be in their own cot/crib and should be able to self sooth to some extent, not where they're in hysterics obviously, but having the baby "wait a minute" does the child no harm, in my view. Also, there seems to be an air, in the post that I quoted that if a parent doesn't feel like co sleeping is for them, whatever the reason, whether they just don't want to or the baby is a particularly awkward sleeper, they're not parenting properly.

This "self-soothe" is a nonsense. They stop crying because no one has come to their aid. It is not self-soothing, it is giving up because their is no point. Maybe it won't affect the children in later life, but I think it can. Therefore I don't do it.

By all means stick your babies in their own rooms, it is no-one's business but your own, but
don't lie about it or try and validate it with made-up facts.

I would hate for someone to listen to their baby crying in a cot in another room cos someone told them putting them in their bed and nursing them asleep could have "horrific results".

MrTsSnickers

Tip EX wrote: »

Like I said, a baby would choose to sleep with their mother....to deny this is deluding yourself. Look around you. And it is not just animals, humans all over the world sleep with their infants.

Cot death is unheard of in many parts of the world for this very reason. It is an extremely healthy, normal practice.

Link Please?

Tip EX wrote: »

What about babies that die alone in a cot? That's an accident I suppose, nothing could have been done I suppose.....whereas co-sleeping can have "horrific results".

What guff.

It's tragic when any baby passes away, babies also pass away when in bed with their parents, not just when they're in a cot. yes, co-sleeping can have horrific results, show me unbiased research that proves otherwise.

So no babies have passed away as a result of SIDS while co-sleeping? To coin your own phrase, "what guff".

You're judging a whole section of parents that opt not to co-sleep, because they've decided that it's not for them, for whatever their reasons are, you decided what's best for your family, fair play to ya.

Tip EX wrote: »

This "self-soothe" is a nonsense.They stop crying because no one has come to their aid. It is not self-soothing, it is giving up because their is no point.

I don't mean letting the poor child scream their heads off like they're in the house on their own or something but a child having to wait a minute or a slight delay in getting to them is not going to affect the bond, their esteem or their sense of place in the family. It does not have an effect on the love that the parent has for their child, maybe the parent had to soothe another child for a minute before picking the baby up, is that giving up hope? No, it's learning patience. Children need to learn to amuse themselves. Obviously not when they are very young like under 5 months but a couple of minutes of waiting when they're older than that is perfectly fine in my view.

Tip EX wrote: »

By all means stick your babies in their own rooms, it is no-one's business but your own, but don't lie about it or try and validate it with made-up facts.

What am I lying about, or what have I made up? The OP asked for opinions on breastfeeding and co-sleeping, mine is just different to yours.

Tip EX wrote: »

I would hate for someone to listen to their baby crying in a cot in another room cos someone told them putting them in their bed and nursing them asleep could have "horrific results".

Why would anyone be listening to the baby cry for an extended period?

Both children who co-sleep and those who don't have passed away from SIDS. It's not exclusively children in cots. There are risks in co-sleeping, you cannot deny that, whether you think the benefit outweigh those risks, is completely up to you and your family.

meeeeh

Tip EX wrote: »

Like I said, a baby would choose to sleep with their mother....to deny this is deluding yourself. Look around you. And it is not just animals, humans all over the world sleep with their infants.

Cot death is unheard of in many parts of the world for this very reason. It is an extremely healthy, normal practice.




What about babies that die alone in a cot? That's an accident I suppose, nothing could have been done I suppose.....whereas co-sleeping can have "horrific results".

What guff.

Oh good god, what exaggeration. I can't sleep with a child in bed and my partner is moving so much that I'd be terrified he'd roll on the child. I even bring three year back to his bed after a while in our bed if he comes into our bedroom. Do I feel bad that I'm depriving children of something? Not for a second and while I'm not a fan of controlled crying, the world won't end if you don't attend to them the second they start whaling. So relax a little bit, besides no mater how perfect you are, you can still screw up your child in million different ways.

lounakin

I agree that there is an unjust judgement of parents who don't co-sleep. I did say before 'to each his own' in response to MrTsSnickers and there's an age where some children much prefer their cosy little room to the parents' bed. And I also disagree that children deaths in their parents beds are only due to alcohol or diminished capacity.
The bed I was mentioning that I felt was dangerous for my child made her roll in a very awkward way, she was uncomfortable and wouldn't fall asleep. It would have been crazy and irresponsible to leave her there.
I also felt while we were co-sleeping that we were waking each other up and she did start to sleep better when she got her own room.
I do not feel like I'm going against nature, I feel I'm actually listening to cues and going along the way it seems to take me. That said, there will always be times when we sleep together.
Don't be so black and white! Just because a child sleeps in their room doesn't mean they cry. Mine doesn't. There is a slight tendency of 'bullying' and I hate it. "By all means stick their babies in their own rooms" and "don't lie to yourself" etc... Do you actually think you can keep your child totally safe just because you sleep with them? The natural way is also to let danger happen and let the child find out consequences. The natural way is also the survival of the fittest, the natural way is also the dangerous way.
If we look at how the human body works, we can establish that women can have children every year and a half or so, nursing keeps the ovulation away for a time. The father's role is to make sure the mother doesn't totally forget herself in the child otherwise there wouldn't be second children. There is a place for the couple to procreate and in that light, having a 4 year old in your bed every night does not seem necessarily 'natural'.
Also, cot death is such a mystery still, we couldn't really say anything definite about it. Take the covers for instance, not many children who died choked in the covers but yet they are listed as cot-death dangers.
I actually think one would be crazy to only listen to guidelines and never their own instinct.

On a lighter note: my baby won't sleep in our bed now because she thinks it's too much fun! She just has the time of her life and fights sleep. We lasted 2 hours last time and gave up! That was in the middle of the night.

Edit: btw I am NOT against co-sleeping at all...

MrTsSnickers

lounakin wrote: »

I feel I'm actually listening to cues and going along the way it seems to take me. That said, there will always be times when we sleep together.

Oh lord, if I'd a euro for every time my fella has crawled into my bed in the middle of the night, I'd be bona fide well to do!

That's all anyone can do, is what they think is right for their family! Good luck with your family, I'm sure whatever decision you come to will be the best for ye.

lounakin

What I'm actually looking for is someone who has practised co-sleeping for long and who could tell me how the transition went. So far the people I've met (and again, I'm not against this practice) have had great difficulty and ended up with the child in bed for years and said child having tantrums every time the parents try to get them to sleep alone. A lot of heartache... how to avoid this?
A very dear friend of mine now has a 2.5 year old and a 4 months old in bed with her!

MrTsSnickers

I should have said this earlier, but I got sidetracked. A friend of mine practiced co-sleeping, when it was time for the child to go to their own bed, they got the child a bed from santa (the timing was fortuitous) and every night the child stayed in bed the whole night, they made a HUGE fuss over her and how big she was etc. In the early days there was a lot of waking during the night and bringing her back to her own bed and waiting until she got back to sleep. I think they had a specific good night song that they used.

I also think they gave her "her own special blanket", it was a fleece one, new big girl pjs that she picked herself, and a few teddys that she adored. I think a lot of it though was consistently bringing her back to her own bed and comforting her back to sleep. I'm not sure how long that took each night but they don't seem delirious with exhaustion so I assume it's worked.

lounakin

How old was the child?

MrTsSnickers

I think she was nearly 18mths-2 years or so. I cant remember exactly but it wasn't that long ago, probably last x mas actually so closer to 2

How Strange

Lounakin there was a family on David Coleman's 21st Child/ren (can't remember the exact title) but the parents and 2 sons coslept. They moved the sons into their own room when they were about 2.5 and 4 (or thereabouts) and it worked well. They decorated their room specifically. The parents said they'd realised it was time for all of them to have their privacy and personal space.

lounakin

That sounds nice, like a little ceremony for a milestone!

Ms2011

The Combe certainly seems to be less strict on having a baby in bed with you. When I had J in April he was having trouble maintaining his body temperature after he was born ( didn't realise at the time that he was fighting an infection ) the nurse put him under my nightie with me in bed & pulled up the blanket with J's head just poking out the top of my nightie. We slept like that for an hour. Didn't bring his temp up unfortunately & he had to go to special care but that hour with him really helped seal our bond I feel.
Now however he loves being stretched out in his cot, he was never a baby who even liked to be swadddled, he always liked his own space :-)

January

To the anon poster - as long as you remain anonymous your posts will not be published. Sign up and post as a regular poster and see how long you last without being infracted or banned for your aggressive posting style.

As an aside - moderators have lives too you know, we're not at the bequest of boards.ie. You posted yesterday, it's not unusual to wait 24-48 hours for your post to be approved.

Mink

I think it's great to breastfeed and co-sleep as long as you want, there can only be benefits from it. You can never spoil a baby with too much closeness and cuddles and if you enjoy it all the better.

I'm a total princess when it comes to sleep and I've never had wee man in the bed. I realise this is a bit selfish but having my own bed at night keeps me sane and I'm happier during the day for baby. It's a kingsize but I don't even feel like there's enough room for me and the husband!

Baby was in cot in his own room just before 3 mths as he stopped the night feeds around then (bottle). But also I felt that he was being disturbed in our room as my husband has quite a snore on him and he gets up at odd times for shift work and the alarm has to go off a million times before he gets up. I was breastfeeding up until 7 weeks but I think if I'd gotten over my fear of co-sleeping (and learned how to feed lying down) I would have gone longer and just had him in a cot with no side beside the bed.

He sleeps well at night and I really enjoy going into him in the morning to be welcomed by big smiles!

iguana

We have a co-sleeper cot but as of this morning we have accepted that if we want to sleep at night we won't be using it. Sam will sleep anywhere during the day but since our move back to Ireland when he was 10 days old, he's been very unsettled at night and will only sleep on his daddy's chest or cuddled to me while feeding.
I prefer him having his own space beside us, as I was looking forward to returning to sleeping on my stomach but for now I'm going to prioritise getting him to sleep at night rather than having us all be awake until 6am.

lounakin

I have been trying to get my daughter to nap with me in bed for her morning nap but I've been totally unsuccessful. Anyway... she was getting tired this morning so I thought I'd try again and give her a little nursing top-up to get her nice and groggy. I don't know why, but this gave way to the biggest tantrum since she was 2 weeks old! I thought I was about to crack up... she cried with her eyes closed for about 2 hours and there was nothing I could do. I don't know if it's the fact that she could not go to sleep just lying there (unless it's the middle of the night, when she falls asleep nursing, we rock her to sleep) or she didn't understand why this was happening, but she went totally insane!! I had to give up and put her in her bed, she stopped crying but wouldn't sleep so I was just going to wait until she was calm to do our usual routine but then... she got the hiccups! Ah!!! So there we are for another 20 minutes waiting for it to pass. In the end she slept in her bed. I guess she's too used to a routine, even though it's only been 2 months.
I always worry about the fact that I made her move a few times and sleep in 6 different bedrooms since she was born, so I wanted to establish a routine for sleeping... I didn't think she'd be so dependant on it!

Oral Slang

I'm still breastfeeding my little one at 13.5months. My initial timescale was 6 months, then a year & now it's maybe 18 to 24 months. She started off in a moses basket in our room & then went into a cot in her room with us moving rooms to join her til 6 months.

At that stage I moved back into my own bed, going in to feed her when she woke. This was when she was only waking once or twice a night for a feed. I went back to work when she was 9.5 months. At 10 months a few things happened. 1st she kept on getting sick - very bad colds/chest infections - 2 antibiotics & a steroid needed. Then she got the vomitting bug & now she has a bad cold again. Basically 3.5 months of illness in my house. Secondly she has started reverse cycling. Before I went back to work I fed her on demand, but now she feeds at 5pm, going to bed & 3 hourly all night, finishing with her morning feed before I go to work.

I pumped for the 1st 2 months, but she started refusing it and so I gave up. While it was annoying to do, I kind of wish I could still carry it on & then she'd hopefully demand a bit less at night. Now she starts off in her cot at about 7 or 8, wakes maybe once after an hour or two & settles with a quick cuddle or rock. Then normally wakes between 11 and 12, 2 & 3, 5 and then I'm up at 6.30/7. I start off in my own bed, but I move me & her into the double bed in her room once she starts waking. I do wonder if I started putting her into her cot would she stretch out a bit, but she isn't a quick feeder, so by the time she's finished each time, we're both asleep.

lounakin

January wrote: »

To the anon poster - as long as you remain anonymous your posts will not be published. Sign up and post as a regular poster and see how long you last without being infracted or banned for your aggressive posting style.

As an aside - moderators have lives too you know, we're not at the bequest of boards.ie. You posted yesterday, it's not unusual to wait 24-48 hours for your post to be approved.

What is that about?

taz70

I'm still breastfeeding my 27 month old - just mornings and night. As a previous poster said, it's such a natural cure-all for everything and gets him off to sleep super quickly. I'd planned to stop around Christmas, but to be honest, I'm happy to let him keep going as long as he needs.

We also cosleep - no plans to change that until he's ready, but he sleeps a lot of the night by himself (I put him to sleep then come back out to work for a few hours, so he's often in there for around 8 hours alone, so I think he'll be fine sleeping on his own, we've just not got around to sorting out a room for him!)

As for breastfeeding and cosleeping making babies more dependent, in my experience the opposite is true. He has a safe and secure base and knows that he can explore the limits of his world and always return to the secure base. He's confident around people, can walk off on his own at the park (within eyesight always!!) and generally copes well in new and strange situations.

I also disagree with the notion that babies need to "self soothe" - why? They're babies. They've spent more time safe and secure inside your body than outside it, so why do they need to learn all the "hard lessons" in the first few months? There is plenty of time - years in fact - to learn those things - and it's more successful when the baby actually has a concept of self as being apart from the mother. Babies only become independent when they move out of home and pay their own taxes - until then, it's a gradual process of teaching them how to exist in the world. I must say I find it amusing in this country that there is so much obsession with making babies "independent" and yet at the first signs of actual independence (firmly shutting their lips to stop food being shovelled in, throwing a bottle or pacifier away etc etc), we're all "what do we do, the baby won't obey us!!!".

Just on the SIDS stats, be careful you're not conflating deaths from suffocation with deaths from SIDS. They're not the same thing, and yet many medical professionals do it. Cosleeping does have standard safe practices which people should follow to prevent accidents. For example, a baby should not cosleep with anyone who smokes or is impaired by alcohol and drugs. They should not have covers on them etc.

SIDS was also called "cot death" as well, which suggests where many if not most of the deaths occur. SIDS is also related to formula feeding, smokers in the house, tummy sleeping - a number of different things.

lounakin

taz70 wrote: »

I'm still breastfeeding my 27 month old - just mornings and night. As a previous poster said, it's such a natural cure-all for everything and gets him off to sleep super quickly. I'd planned to stop around Christmas, but to be honest, I'm happy to let him keep going as long as he needs.

We also cosleep - no plans to change that until he's ready, but he sleeps a lot of the night by himself (I put him to sleep then come back out to work for a few hours, so he's often in there for around 8 hours alone, so I think he'll be fine sleeping on his own, we've just not got around to sorting out a room for him!)

As for breastfeeding and cosleeping making babies more dependent, in my experience the opposite is true. He has a safe and secure base and knows that he can explore the limits of his world and always return to the secure base. He's confident around people, can walk off on his own at the park (within eyesight always!!) and generally copes well in new and strange situations.

I also disagree with the notion that babies need to "self soothe" - why? They're babies. They've spent more time safe and secure inside your body than outside it, so why do they need to learn all the "hard lessons" in the first few months? There is plenty of time - years in fact - to learn those things - and it's more successful when the baby actually has a concept of self as being apart from the mother. Babies only become independent when they move out of home and pay their own taxes - until then, it's a gradual process of teaching them how to exist in the world. I must say I find it amusing in this country that there is so much obsession with making babies "independent" and yet at the first signs of actual independence (firmly shutting their lips to stop food being shovelled in, throwing a bottle or pacifier away etc etc), we're all "what do we do, the baby won't obey us!!!".

Just on the SIDS stats, be careful you're not conflating deaths from suffocation with deaths from SIDS. They're not the same thing, and yet many medical professionals do it. Cosleeping does have standard safe practices which people should follow to prevent accidents. For example, a baby should not cosleep with anyone who smokes or is impaired by alcohol and drugs. They should not have covers on them etc.

SIDS was also called "cot death" as well, which suggests where many if not most of the deaths occur. SIDS is also related to formula feeding, smokers in the house, tummy sleeping - a number of different things.

All well said! But just about suffocation and SIDS, my point was that SIDS is hard to determine and nobody really knows why how or what. That's probably why the danger of suffocation is mentioned with SIDS. There are so many factors, all they are trying to do is go through a list of things and see if there's anything in common but really, no one has a clue.
I think it's important to do what you think is right rather than everything recommended because I'm sure some babies have died of SIDS on their parents'bed or sleeping on their back.
And SIDS doesn't stop unfortunately... my cousin died of sudden adult death syndrom a few months ago just having breakfast with his brother

lynski

My son is 6 and I was a total baby whisperer for him, he was in his room at 11 wks and fed on routine, never in my bed, never fed to sleep blah blah blah, he weaned to formula t 6 mths; my 4 yr old daughter was in our room until 8 mths, in our bed most nights until then too, also weaned onto formula t 6mths, more or less self weaned. Much less baby whisperer, and more natural approach.
My 22 mth old is happily sleeping in his cot right now and will until about 12 then have a feed and fall asleep in my arms until his morning feed. he has slept many many nights in our bed since he was born. I fed on demand and he is now down to 2/3 feeds a day we never really used it for comfort though as he never liked to get milk when he wanted comfort and he has a soother.
We were away at the weekend and he slept through for 3 nights so i thought nightweaning here we come. no way, cried and cried for 2 nights and then I thought the hell with this, so I will wean him when he is ready now, anything for a decent nights sleep.
BTW there is over 1000 irish 'extended' breastfeeders on another social site.

liliq

lynski wrote: »

BTW there is over 1000 irish 'extended' breastfeeders on another social site.

*waves my secret boob shake