Catalonia independence

FlawedGenius

Ive heard if they get there independence, Barca could have to play in the French League instead????:eek:
If it happens surely the Spaniards will let them stay in La Liga as they know without them it would be another SPL with R Madrid winning the league by 15 points every year, or would they??.......

Gringo180

If thats the case they will have there own national team??? Spanish team would be severley weakened if thats the case.

Seaneh

Barca would have to play in the Catalonian league, not the French league.

Which would mean they would have to set up a Catalonian league.

bohsman

Seaneh wrote: »

Barca would have to play in the Catalonian league, not the French league.

Which would mean they would have to set up a Catalonian league.

Unlikely looking at Monaco and a few other examples.

HalloweenJack

Rosell has said that if Catalonia gains independence, Barca will continue in La Liga. He didn't say why but it doesn't take a genius to figure it out.

dirtyden

They would stay playing in La Liga.

Anything else would make no sense for the club, nor for Spanish football.

Guy:Incognito

They could always just move the club about 150km down the coast .:)

BhoscaCapall

Why on earth would they play in the French league of all leagues? Are you thinking of Euskadi there?

They would continue to play in Spain. People seem to think football and geopolitics are rigidly linked. There is no such country called the Republic of Ireland yet there is a national team called it.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Seaneh

bohsman wrote: »

Unlikely looking at Monaco and a few other examples.

Monaco is entirely different, they speak french, used the Franc and now the Euro, use french laws, their military protection is provided by the french navy, army and airforce, their ports are controlled by france, etc, etc, etc. It's symbiotic.

If thye left La Liga, they would have to play in Catalonia's national league.

Odds are they will carry on in the spanish league though, for obvious reasons (money, money, money, money, moooooooooooneeeeeeeeeh).

HalloweenJack

Phoenix wrote: »

Has talk of Catalonian independence increased?

They had regional elections today and the parties that are outspoken proponents of independence appear to be winning an absolute majority.

Seaneh

Phoenix wrote: »

Has talk of Catalonian independence increased?

There is a regional assembly election, the main catalonian party are saying they want a referendum in the next 4/5 years, it's all just pomp to gain popular support.

I don't think they will either be granted the referendum or that if they were, it would pass.

Mr.Nice Guy

Derry City play in the League of Ireland despite residing outside the 26 counties so I don't see this being too big a headache if it happened.

Seaneh

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Derry City play in the League of Ireland despite residing outside the 26 counties so I don't see this being too big a headache if it happened.

They had to get a special dispensation from UEFA and FIFA because they were being discriminated against by both the IFA, Irish League and about 60% of Irish League teams... It was an extremely exceptional case.

TaosHum

Always thought the Basques would have gained independence before the Catalans would have.

ArmaniJeanss

AS Monaco, Derry City, Gretna, Swansea, Cardiff, FC Busingen, every club in Liechtenstein, Vancouver Whitecaps, Wellington FC.

I don't see the problem.

BhoscaCapall

Seaneh wrote: »

They had to get a special dispensation from UEFA and FIFA because they were being discriminated against by both the IFA, Irish League and about 60% of Irish League teams... It was an extremely exceptional case.

And I think one of the biggest teams in the world wanting to maintain one of the biggest rivalries in the world in one of the biggest leagues in the world is another exceptional case tbh.

Richard Hillman

Ah Barcelona, the bastion of all things Catalan, a symbol of hope for Catalans against the tyranny of big bad nasty Spain but when they gain independence from Spain, they still play in the Spanish football league.

More than a football club alright :pac:

Seaneh

TaosHum wrote: »

Always thought the Basques would have gained independence before the Catalans would have.

Right now it's like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskobar%C3%B3metro


33% of the population in the region favor Basque independence, 31% federalism, 32% autonomy, 2% centralism with the last 2% undecided.

However, the spanish constitution doesn't allow for any region to separate from Spanish control (in fact, it out right bans it), so, constitutionally, the central government has no obligation to even discuss separation with any region.

Of the %'s above, if the question is asked "total separation or total centralism) and the numbers are anbout 65% for separation and 35% for centralism, in the last poll I saw.

Seaneh

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

And I think one of the biggest teams in the world wanting to maintain one of the biggest rivalries in the world in one of the biggest leagues in the world is another exceptional case tbh.

To be honest, it's not going to happen either way.

There is a chance of federalism happening but there is no way Catalonia will completely separate from Spain in the next 5 years.

The_B_Man

Jaysus, the things u learn from watching foreign football! I must get Sky Sports in....

kitakyushu

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

AS Monaco, Derry City, Gretna, Swansea, Cardiff, FC Busingen, every club in Liechtenstein, Vancouver Whitecaps, Wellington FC.

Gretna is in Scotland tho?

Toronto FC and Montreal Impact are another couple for the list.

Bohrio

I wouldnt worry much about this... Artur Mas's independency plan has failed as far as I know... they have actually lost point compared to the previous elections.

Dozen Wicked Words

Espanyol would need to play in a "foreign".League too. Not going to happen.

Oh, and have Berwick Rangers been mentioned?

Edit: Wrongly thought Donegal Celtic played in Donegal.

kitakyushu

Chester City is another interesting one. Chester is an English city but the clubs pitch is tecnically in Wales.

Hammer Archer

dooferoaks wrote: »

Oh, and have Berwick Rangers or Donegal Celtic been mentioned?

Despite the name, Donegal Celtic are actually based in Belfast.
There's no way that Barcelona will be playing in any league other than La Liga.

Dozen Wicked Words

Hammer Archer wrote: »

Despite the name, Donegal Celtic are actually based in Belfast.
There's no way that Barcelona will be playing in any league other than La Liga.

Did not know that, interesting. Did they start in Donegal then or has the name always been a misnomer?

ArmaniJeanss

A long list from all around the world, including historical examples.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs_playing_in_the_league_of_another_country

Doubtless not completely definitive etc, but does seem to include all that have been mentioned here.

BhoscaCapall

dooferoaks wrote: »

Did not know that, interesting. Did they start in Donegal then or has the name always been a misnomer?

There is a place in Belfast called Donegal iirc

Sometimes it seems like there are only about 10 place names in Ireland.

batistuta9

dooferoaks wrote: »

Did not know that, interesting. Did they start in Donegal then or has the name always been a misnomer?

there's a Donegall Square & a Donegall Road in Belfast so maybe they're from around there

batistuta9

Short video on Barca & Catalonia http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/video/2012/nov/22/fc-barcelona-catalonia-independence-video

batistuta9

BhoscaCapall wrote: »

There is a place in Belfast called Donegal iirc

Sometimes it seems like there are only about 10 place names in Ireland.

They're to do with these people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Donegall

They'll stay in La Liga. Money talks.

Bohrio

rarnes1 wrote: »

They'll stay in La Liga. Money talks.

Well I wouldnt be so sure about that. Yes money talks but if you want in-dependency then do it with all consequences!!

They should play the Catalonia league, along with Español.

anyway judging by the results of the election I dont see that happening, we will see

iregk

kitakyushu wrote: »

Toronto FC and Montreal Impact are another couple for the list.

That's not quite the same. The MLS is not the United States league it's the north american league. Canada is in north america hence why Toronto and Montreal play in that league. Similar to the the likes of the Jays, Leafs, Oilers etc... The MLB and NHL are north american leagues not US leagues.

I believe and I could be mistaken but isn't the reason Cardiff and Swansea play in the English league because the Welsh league didn't exist prior to them starting up. They were already playing in the English leagues when the Welsh league was setup and they just never moved.

There is a Catalonia league already but there is precedence there for Barca not having to move. You can bet your a$$ though that this would actually be a huge part of the independence decision. Think of the money and economy Barca bring to the city. If they had to play in the Catalonia league due to the independence they would sink like a stone as would the economy of Catalonia. Would world class players come and play in a league that's in all likelihood worse than the LOI?

Also somone said would this mean Catalonia would need their own national team? That already exists and it ain't a bad side...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalonia_regional_football_team#Current_squad

carlop

iregk wrote: »

There is a Catalonia league already but there is precedence there for Barca not having to move. You can bet your a$$ though that this would actually be a huge part of the independence decision. Think of the money and economy Barca bring to the city. If they had to play in the Catalonia league due to the independence they would sink like a stone as would the economy of Catalonia. Would world class players come and play in a league that's in all likelihood worse than the LOI?

Even a referendum on independence is a long way off, so we're talking about something that is very much hypothetical, and I'd say impossible before 2020.

However, a Catalan league, if it had to happen that way, would not be worse that the LOI. There are 9 million people in Catalunya, and I would argue that per capita it is the best sporting 'nation' in the world, and this is as clear in football as in any other sport.

Teams like Girona, Gimnastic and L'Hospitalet would rapidly improve and have a far better chance of holding on to their best players if they were suddenly transported from the Spanish lower leagues to what would be a top-flight European league where European qualification would be a genuine possibility.

iregk

carlop wrote: »

However, a Catalan league, if it had to happen that way, would not be worse that the LOI. There are 9 million people in Catalunya, and I would argue that per capita it is the best sporting 'nation' in the world, and this is as clear in football as in any other sport.

Teams like Girona, Gimnastic and L'Hospitalet would rapidly improve and have a far better chance of holding on to their best players if they were suddenly transported from the Spanish lower leagues to what would be a top-flight European league where European qualification would be a genuine possibility.

Ok I suppose it's a possibility if however hypothetical at present. My point being though is in it's current state how does the Catalan league compare? I'll admit I hadn't realised there were 9 million people in Catalunya so of course it does have potential. Take a team like Girona, Gimnastic or L'Hospitalet, how would they do against say a Sligo Rovers or even a Hibernian in Scotland? I say this because even taking the big if, Barcelona were to be catapulted out of La Liga and into the Catalunia league then I see two things happen.

1. The standard would rise due to a marque name being present and teams as you say could hold onto some more players.
2. Barcelona would loose a lot of players and their level and standard would drop hugely away from where they have been in recent years.

Ultimately we're talking in all likelyhood another Scotish league. 1 hughe team, many small teams, 1 horse race.

carlop

iregk wrote: »

Ok I suppose it's a possibility if however hypothetical at present. My point being though is in it's current state how does the Catalan league compare? I'll admit I hadn't realised there were 9 million people in Catalunya so of course it does have potential. Take a team like Girona, Gimnastic or L'Hospitalet, how would they do against say a Sligo Rovers or even a Hibernian in Scotland? I say this because even taking the big if, Barcelona were to be catapulted out of La Liga and into the Catalunia league then I see two things happen.

1. The standard would rise due to a marque name being present and teams as you say could hold onto some more players.
2. Barcelona would loose a lot of players and their level and standard would drop hugely away from where they have been in recent years.

Ultimately we're talking in all likelyhood another Scotish league. 1 hughe team, many small teams, 1 horse race.

Girona are currently near the top, or possibly even top, of la Segunda so we'd have to presume that they would be better than Sligo, and probably Hibs. Gimnastic traditionally have fluctuated between La Liga and La Segunda, though I think they're struggling right now. L'Hospitalet are in Segunda B, and I'd guess are probably around the level of Sligo, although it's hard to say.

Espanyol are obviously the other major player in Catalan football, and I'd guess a Catalan league would work out well for them, especially as they would become the 'Spanish' team in the league, and their fanbase could very quickly grow as people who felt more Spanish than Catalan would identify with them.

I think a combination of the two things you mentioned would take place if a separate Catalan league was formed with Barca and Espanyol in it.

However, Barca are so important to La Liga, and La Liga to Barca, that ultimately I don't think Barca would ever leave the league, regardless of Catalan independence or not.

iregk

carlop wrote: »

However, Barca are so important to La Liga, and La Liga to Barca, that ultimately I don't think Barca would ever leave the league, regardless of Catalan independence or not.

This last point is exactly what I mean thought. I take all your other points on and say ok maybe the Catalan league would be of a good standard afterall. Maybe level with something like the Swiss or Belgian league. Not a tier 1 European league but a good one none the less. I actually think where Barca play would have a majority decision on Catalan independence. They stay in La Liga then it's fine but if they have to leave La Liga the importance is so great I can't see independence being given a green light by anyone.

But I'm here to be proven wrong

TaosHum

Considering Barcelona are fiercely proud of their Catalan heritage and synonymous with Catalonian culture, would it not be incredibly hypocritical if they refused to play in the Catalan league and remain in La Liga?

Granted if this scenario does ever occur.

greendom

i'm sure that the majority of Catalonians would want their clubs to continue to play in Spanish league so they could continue to put it up to the man. Can't really prove Catalonian supremacy if they only have themselves to play against. if it came to full on independence I'm sure the rest of Spain would want Barca, Espanyol etc to continue in Spanish football too. Wonder whether UEFA would put a spanner in the works though ?

grenache

iregk wrote: »

Would world class players come and play in a league that's in all likelihood worse than the LOI?

Catalonian League worse than LOI?

Girona, Gimnastic and Espanyol would wipe the floor with any LOI side.

The_Kew_Tour

No way will Barca leave the Spanish league.

Money talks.

eire4

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

No way will Barca leave the Spanish league.

Money talks.

Thats the bottom line and there are plenty of examples of exceptions with teams playing outside of the political jurisdiction they play in.