So I taxed the car today

Elfinknight

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Wrong, discs cannot be issued in respect of months that have passed.

You have to pay arrears and then get a new licence for 3 months going forward.

Someone would want to tell tax office in ennis that so. I left the wifes car go the month and over. Paid arrears,penalty and got a disc for three months that started from when last one expired.

Idbatterim

So motor enthusiasts should only buy 08+ cars then ?

No, im still in the tax on fuel camp rather than the hasle that comes with a fixed charge+fuel tax too, from every viewpoint it is the best option.

Enviorment (The real polluters pay/people who just use car as a workhorse will opt for the more economical versions)
More revenue (Use your car then you pay more/you pick a performance/thirsty car well here is the sting)
Convienience (Fill up and drive = simples)
Motor enthusiasts and people who want to own multiple/weekend cars will no longer be taken for a ride (Enviorment will be helped too as work vehicle will obviously be more economical)

I would no doubt due to the nature of my work love to have a small van or run around for during the week and be able to hop in my Focus at the weekend and be able to polish it and moon over how shiny it is and enjoy it at the weekend, the current system makes this for me personally impossible which makes me sad. Overall the system needs to get itself into the 21st century.

Back to the original point, Irish people still seem to have a Lords and Vassels attitude where they think if anyone can have anything nice/different in terms of a car then feck em shurrre they can afford 200-300 euros a year just for not paying all in one go when most people in small engined cars are dodging tax half the time anyway. I as an adult understand the need for motor taxation and i feel its my duty to pay, however the 2 tier system is unfair and people are being taken for a ride.

if they put in on fuel, it will drive electric car sales though the roof, unless they started putting high tax on them or started charging a lot more for electricity, either way it wont happen, so dont see much point in debating this...

I think the idea that you need to buy an expensive car to avail of low tax is wrong. In fact I'd say that there are plenty of people with cars in the high brackets that could change to cars in the low brackets and at the end of it all end up with money in their pocket.

yeah of course, im one of them. these 08 cars are now about to go 5 years old. Im sure some of the smaller cheaper cars can now be picked up for fairly little.

Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

The tax-at-the-pumps people, how do you propose it is implemented? Does it apply to cars bought after a certain date or all cars?

All cars obviously as it's a fuel tax, working out the actual rates/numbers could be done rather easily.

Why overcomplicate things ? Just because something isn't being done now doesn't mean it's not the best option, the current system is all over the place and the arguement "Shurre it will never happen/work" doesn't really add to the arguement tbh it's like walking up to someone in the pissing rain and saying "Tis fierce mild hah?"

MugMugs

awec wrote: »

The tax-at-the-pumps people, how do you propose it is implemented? Does it apply to cars bought after a certain date or all cars?

Do what the uk do. Set value for tax and the rest at the pump...... And reduce the reliance on raping motorists at every turn....

Hootanany

Bigus wrote: »

If you work the bangernomics purchase properly you wil never have to pay tax and never have to drive illegally , just look harder, boys !

Hint please in a PM

awec

This post has been deleted.

meoklmrk91

I think I am the only person I know who taxes for the year, it just makes more sense, less hassle, cheaper, I calm just buy the bloody thing and forget about for another year. Then again I do drive a 1L polo, it costs me €186 a year to tax so in fairness I have no excuses.

I know a good few peeps who would be paying the same as me if they paid yearly but they choose not to, I don't understand it really.

I would tax my car for 9 years with the money OP paid to tax his for 1. I personally like this system though because I wouldn't trust the government to implement a petrol tax in place of motor tax, we would all just end up getting raped by them.

Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

So, someone who bought a car in 2008 for the low tax because that's all the tax they could afford. They are now taxed at the pump which is effectively a tax on mileage. Said person does lots of miles. Their tax bill now increases hugely. How do you propose these people pay for it?

At what rate do you charge? Is the aim for the government to get on average 500 euro a year from someone or 1000 euro a year?

No point overcomplicating but also no point oversimplifying. You cannot just change motor tax across the board entirely.

There's nothing "rather easily" about it.

Did you read my post pointing out the benifits ? I don't think you did i have 4-5 reasons why it's better for the enviorment/tax income/convienience etc, all you are saying over and over for the last few pages is "Should have bought a 1 litre polo lulz" or "Thats just the way it is, our overly complicated system will never change"

More material please and back up your points

Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

There's nothing "rather easily" about it.

You drive more/you have a more uneconomical car then you pay more tax, i think you will find it's the definition of rather easy.

166man

awec wrote: »

So, someone who bought a car in 2008 for the low tax because that's all the tax they could afford. They are now taxed at the pump which is effectively a tax on mileage. Said person does lots of miles. Their tax bill now increases hugely. How do you propose these people pay for it?

At what rate do you charge? Is the aim for the government to get on average 500 euro a year from someone or 1000 euro a year?

No point overcomplicating but also no point oversimplifying. You cannot just change motor tax across the board entirely.

There's nothing "rather easily" about it.

You still can't see it can you? I have even highlighted the above part that you consider reading one more time. If somebody can afford a relatively new '08 car they can afford to tax their old one.

People who spend €40k on a BMW don't do so because €225 is all the tax they can afford. The person who buys a 2001 BMW does so most likely because that's all the car he can afford yet he's being asked to pay €885 a year in his 520i? Nah something ain't right there....

I agree with you on the fuel on tax thing. There's nothing easy about changing the entire tax system to one that's on fuel.

awec

This post has been deleted.

MetzgerMeister

Let's just refresh our memories regarding what awec posted here in the past - "I actually hate cars".

:pac:

Supergurrier

awec wrote: »

Er, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm going to ask you the same question, did you read my post?!

Also, you haven't backed up ANY of your posts. Nor posted ANY material :pac::pac:

People have budgeted for their cars based on the system when they bought the car.

You are now saying screw that, and pulling the mat from under their feet. You don't seem to grasp why this won't work.

Tax-at-the-pumps would be grand if nobody in Ireland currently owned a car and we were all starting from scratch and able to make a decision based on what would be the new tax system. That isn't the case.

You seem to be under the impression fuel will be going up a euro a litre or something, more like 10-15c more tax

MugMugs

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Let's just refresh our memories regarding what awec posted here in the past - "I actually hate cars".

:pac:

Not wholly relevant though...

awec

This post has been deleted.

awec

This post has been deleted.

Supergurrier

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Let's just refresh our memories regarding what awec posted here in the past - "I actually hate cars".

Was it posted from his iphone 5 in a hair salon too or was that someone else entirely ? :pac:

Anyway yea feck this thread im outta here

MetzgerMeister

MugMugs wrote: »

Not wholly relevant though...

Neither are a lot of posts on this thread but shur what can ya do?!

awec

This post has been deleted.

Supergurrier

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Neither are a lot of posts on this thread but shur what can ya do?!

Shurre twill never change, twas always this way, arra what can ya do hah :pac:

repsol

Getting back on the point.It is a case of swings and roundabouts driving a car in a high tax bracket.You pay very little for it used because of its unattractive tax cost and then pay through the nose every year for the disc. That is why for example, a used BMW 7 series is worth less than the equivalent used 3 series ,despite the 7 costing twice as much as the 3 when they were new.The real solution is enforcement.If everyone paid their road tax the burden on each motorist would be less.As usual in this country ,a few selfish people think the rest of us should pay for them

MugMugs

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Neither are a lot of posts on this thread but shur what can ya do?!

Touché

Our man in Havana

awec wrote: »

The tax-at-the-pumps people, how do you propose it is implemented? Does it apply to cars bought after a certain date or all cars?

As they say on budget day, from midnight tonight.

Terrible amount of people on here that draw conclusions about a persons financial situation from the car they drive. I know quite a few people on about €10/€12 an hour who drive 2008 on low tax cars and I know many many people with plenty of cash who earn a fair wedge driving cars worth sfa that would be between 1.3 litre and 3.0 +.

From reading the drivel in here it seems folks driving 2008 diesel focus etc are very well off generally speaking and anyone driving a decade old BMW or whatever can't afford any better :rolleyes:

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

Terrible amount of people on here that draw conclusions about a persons financial situation from the car they drive. I know quite a few people on about €10/€12 an hour who drive 2008 on low tax cars and I know many many people with plenty of cash who earn a fair wedge driving cars worth sfa that would be between 1.3 litre and 3.0 +.

From reading the drivel in here it seems folks driving 2008 diesel focus etc are very well off generally speaking and anyone driving a decade old BMW or whatever can't afford any better :rolleyes:

That's a crude way of looking at it IMO but each to their own.

Sometimes it is easy to draw a conclusion about someone's financial situation from what they drive. Someone driving a 2012 Audi Q7 is clearly not stuck for cash but somebody driving a 1999 Hyundai accent might be less well off.

I'd also have thought that a '08 530d/520d driver would be reasonably well off too although as ever I could be completely wrong.

166man

166man wrote: »

......a 1999 Hyundai accent might be less well off..........

It's either pure coincidense you mention a 99 Accent or else you know from multiple posts I made that my ole lad drives one.
I have my suspicions which it is

Anyway my point was about folks driving 08 cars such as a Focus and old BMWs, not new vehicles costing the guts of €100k and cars worth €500.

The post you I made which you quoted and the speel you came out with are not at all analgous, in fact your's is the crude scenario to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells, not mine

MugMugs

166man wrote: »

That's a crude way of looking at it IMO but each to their own.

Sometimes it is easy to draw a conclusion about someone's financial situation from what they drive. Someone driving a 2012 Audi Q7 is clearly not stuck for cash but somebody driving a 1999 Hyundai accent might be less well off.

I'd also have thought that a '08 530d/520d driver would be reasonably well off too although as ever I could be completely wrong.

I can understand why you'd think that but I know a lad driving a 2011 A7 and a lad in a 91 starlet..... One has money and no shortage of it and the other is financed to his tits and loses sleep over his debts..... Take a guess which is which..... A person presenting an image of wealth doesn't necessarily have it...

dgt

MugMugs wrote: »

I can understand why you'd think that but I know a lad driving a 2011 A7 and a lad in a 91 starlet..... One has money and no shortage of it and the other is financed to his tits and loses sleep over his debts..... Take a guess which is which..... A person presenting an image of wealth doesn't necessarily have it...

I know lots of people like that, the fancy car, the newish plate, big haus, up their own arse and they're thousands upon thousands in debt. And yet I must be p*ss poor because I drive in a 98 jalopy...?

Image deception still fools some I see! Maybe if I drove round in the Alfa or the Merc people will think I'm minted and not a college student that works in Tesco!

It's rife out here in the sticks and I'm sure I'm not the only one with similar stories

dgt

dgt wrote: »

.... big haus, up their own arse ........

lol, reminds me of Ross O'Carrol Kelly :pac:

Voodoomelon

dgt wrote: »

And yet I must be p*ss poor because I drive in a 98 jalopy...?

You can afford a new camera then!

dgt

Voodoomelon wrote: »

You can afford a new camera then!

The supernova shall do for a few more years :pac:

listermint

CiniO wrote: »

There's 51 countries on that list,
Except from Jordan, Georgia, Tunisia, USA, Egypt, Algeria, Kuweit (which is 7 countries) everything else is in Europe.

So Ireland comes as 14/44.
Indeed - cheapest in Europe.

Sorry missed this reply.

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rt/eu/c12191.htm

Where are you getting 44 countries in Europe ?

Because there isnt.

awec

This post has been deleted.

listermint

awec wrote: »

The European Union is not the same as Europe.

Albania for example is in Europe but is not in the EU.

Im sure youve heard of the common market.

Get up the yard,

You knew well coming into this no one was talking about 'Europe' we were talking about the European Union, stop trying to side track.

awec

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Our man in Havana

It is actually 50.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_in_Europe

listermint

awec wrote: »

I would have thought when people were talking about "Europe" they were talking about... you know.. Europe.

You know thats a waffle. Please explain in detail why we would refer to countries outside our common market which share a currency amongst other unified strategies

In detail....

Lets start with why i would compare albania to ireland?

MetzgerMeister

Well all I can say is that if you are living in Ireland and you have a big-engined car, there's something wrong with you, end of story.

listermint

I suppose the core issue here is we need to address, future proof and consolidate our Tax system. Because the existing one is a complete farcical joke dreamed up by typical parish pump politics and interest groups with pretty much no concept of fairness or unification across the board. That goes from how the tax is collected but also how it is managed and enforced.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand.


Sold to the world as a small dynamic economy, look under the bed sheets and its powered by a mouse on a wheel.

monkeypants

If there's really such a financial penalty to paying tax by instalments, then it makes sense to get a Credit Union loan to pay for the year. There'll be interest to be paid, but it should be less than the extra that Revenue asks for.

Supergurrier

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Well all I can say is that if you are living in Ireland and you have a big-engined car, there's something wrong with you, end of story.

Ya freak ! :pac:

166man

RoverJames wrote: »

It's either pure coincidense you mention a 99 Accent or else you know from multiple posts I made that my ole lad drives one.
I have my suspicions which it is

Anyway my point was about folks driving 08 cars such as a Focus and old BMWs, not new vehicles costing the guts of €100k and cars worth €500.

The post you I made which you quoted and the speel you came out with are not at all analgous, in fact your's is the crude scenario to anyone with more than two functioning brain cells, not mine

Lol, that actually was a coincidence that I just chose that. No offence was intended, seriously.

The family around the corner with the 2012 X5 in the drive, aren't short of cash at all and I know that.

I understand of course that many of the drivers of the nicer cars might have debt beyond my imagination but at the same time, I can't see why the person with the nicer car wouldn't be relatively well off.

Mugs and dgt, point taken, some people do choose to prioritise how they spend and as such their car is not important but they might have a high disposable income. That is of course a possibility but mine is more that, not everyone with a newer car is millions in debt and I'd have thought that the guy with the 2012 X5 would have a higher income than the old Toyota driver for example.

Could be wrong though..:o

RobAMerc

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Well all I can say is that if you are living in Ireland and you have a big-engined car, there's something wrong with you, end of story.

I like big engined cars ? - or are you suggesting there is something else wrong with me ?
Although only in Ireland would a 3.4 be classed as big engined.

MetzgerMeister

RobAMerc wrote: »

I like big engined cars ? - or are you suggesting there is something else wrong with me ?
Although only in Ireland would a 3.4 be classed as big engined.

No, I'm just saying that there has to be something "special" about a person who wants to pay over €1000 tax every year.


:pac:

Kenny Logins

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

No, I'm just saying that there has to be something "special" about a person who wants to pay over €1000 tax every year.

Nobody 'wants' to pay the tax, but if that's what it takes to drive the car they choose, so be it.

Green Diesel

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

No, I'm just saying that there has to be something "special" about a person who wants to pay over €1000 tax every year.

What about all those people who pay 4-5-6k in depreciation every year? I think they're the bigger mugs.

creedp

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Nobody 'wants' to pay the tax, but if that's what it takes to drive the car they choose, so be it.

Its just the Irish fixation with motor tax ... omg tax is going up €50 in the budget so nobody will buy a €40k car next year .. I mean how could you absorb an extra €50 a year when depreciation will be in the order of €6 - €7k a year?? Its a wonder how owners of new €200 a year motor tax cars can bring themselves to fill up the tank .. sure that costs nearly a €100 a go!

CiniO

listermint wrote: »

Sorry missed this reply.

http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rt/eu/c12191.htm

Where are you getting 44 countries in Europe ?

Because there isnt.

That's purely astonishing.

All discussion was started by yourself with this:

still one of the cheapest in europe.....

How could we know that by saying europe you meant European Union?
Europe is the continent, and as Our man in Havana mentioned includes 50 countries.

listermint wrote: »

Im sure youve heard of the common market.

Get up the yard,

You knew well coming into this no one was talking about 'Europe' we were talking about the European Union, stop trying to side track.

No we didn't know. You said Europe, so we though Europe... Simples.

listermint wrote: »

You know thats a waffle. Please explain in detail why we would refer to countries outside our common market which share a currency amongst other unified strategies

In detail....

Lets start with why i would compare albania to ireland?

This question is even more absurd.
Why would you compare France to Ireland then?

You compare something just for the sake of comparing I suppose.
When you said Ireland has one of the cheapest fuels in Europe, I really though that you mean it.

Anyway - to stop any further misunderstandings.
Not all countries in EU (European Union) share currency.
And common market in not that common as you think. Every EU member is anyway free to trade with any other country from outside EU, or even from outside of Europe continent.


But let's take a look again. You want to compare Ireland to other EU countries - let's go then.
Your link states there is 27 countries in EU.

Ireland was 14 on our list, but 2 countries (number 1 and 2) are not in EU.
That moves Ireland to 12th position. 12th per 27 is in my opinion not the cheapest.

And let's go even further, and by your argument that we share currency, let's check how Ireland does here.

I can see only 8 countries from Eurozone above Ireland on the list.
There is 17 Eurozone countries in total.

So here Ireland comes as 9/17.
Still far away from being the cheapest IMO.

http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/index.php?sort=4


Edit:
Forgot to check it before but diesel is even more expensive.

Ireland is 9/44 of European countries from that list.
Ireland is 5/27 in EU.
Ireland is 2/17 in Eurozone.

All this in relation to Diesel price.
http://www.fuel-prices-europe.info/index.php?sort=6

So saying that Ireland has one of the cheapest fuels in Europe is total bull....

galwaytt

creedp wrote: »

Its just the Irish fixation with motor tax ... omg tax is going up €50 in the budget so nobody will buy a €40k car next year ..

But that's actually the problem - everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room.

If you take all new-car sales since 2008, when emissions-based tax came in, you're talking about, what, 300,000 vehicles ? Less ?.

Well then, out of a national fleet of 2.2million vehicles iirc, we have a tax system written to suit the minority, well-heeled or not.

In the meantime though, the owners of the other 1.9m vehicles are being robbed blind. It's them (us, me) that need the help.

It's all very well debating the pros/cons of emissions based tax, and whether owners of such vehicles are losing their shirt on depreciation whilst 'saving' on a pittance tax, but that audience is only a fraction of that actually affected. Worse, it's that cohort that is obviously able to 'wear' those numbers, whatever they are.

However, in the 4yr and over old car market, where the majority of us 'live', we are actually facing further penalty. And it is a penalty. To extract any meaningful extra income from the 300k above would mean massive, and I mean massive, tax hikes on them. And they don't want to do that.

But, the sleeping 1.9m other vehicles............ah, sure, they won't notice an extra......50/100/whatever...........and over 1.9m vehicles that is significant.

There was a time when you had an organisation like the AA that would do some fighting for you, but that's all gone now. Govt is the winner. Disparate and random opposition is no opposition at all.

Chris_Heilong

awec wrote: »

The tax-at-the-pumps people, how do you propose it is implemented? Does it apply to cars bought after a certain date or all cars?

All cars, those lower tax rates for post 08 cars has been admitted by the Government to be an oversight and the reason why the motor tax takings have been too low. The people who Chose to buy post 08 cars must have known the low tax rates could not last forever. All us who have older cars are doing our part so why shouldn't everyone else and if the people with post 08 cars then find they cant afford them then they have the choice to buy a cheaper car.