child protection???don't make me laugh.

marble

In a nutshell,my brother has a 4 year old child from a previous relationship.she also has another older child for someone else.
She has turned to heroin in the last few yrs,and also associates with the kind of people said drugs brings.
Both children regularly miss school,go hungry,appear scruffy etc.
My brother has been to the Gardai,ocial services,solicitors,fathers for justice,sent emails to various td's and even Joe Duffy,but he either gets no replies or is told it'll be kept on file.
He has been in contact with child protection recently and they told him they can't do anything without any "hard evidence",even though her sons grandad has been in contact with them too over his concerns.
I mean,WTF has to happen to the kids before someone sits up and listens?
Its a ****ing disgrace.

Madam_X

Well the Children's Referendum has such children in mind - and hopefully will help dispel the ridiculous notion that children should *always* stay with their mothers. That's why I can't understand John Waters et al's being unhappy with it.

marble

Madam_X wrote: »

Well the Children's Referendum has such children in mind - and hopefully will help dispel the ridiculous notion that children should *always* stay with their mothers. That's why I can't understand John Waters et al's being unhappy with it.

We're sick with worry and no one seems to be able to help us

My name is URL

Has anyone else ever made complaints to Gardai and so on.. teachers, GPs etc? I can't imagine such a case going ignored if it's as serious as you're saying it is.

Giselle

At the same time its not ideal that kids should be taken from their parents without actual evidence. Taking someones word for it isn't enough, as we all know malicious people tell lies.

Not saying thats what's happening here, but the reality is that until something DOES happen the kids, nobody knows that anything WILL happen the kids.

ElleEm

I don't know, it seems a bit hard to believe.

If there are genuine concerns for their welfare, why can't he allow them to stay with him for a while?

Get everyone with concerns, (you, him, extended family, teachers, neighbours etc.) to ring the relevant social work team. They should arrange a home visit to check out what's really going on. They need to do an investigation to get the "hard evidence" that you are saying is so blatant.

Super-Rush

Lets try and keep the joke for the millions of other threads here. Serious replies only please.

You know, for a change.

irishgirl19

My name is URL wrote: »

Has anyone else ever made complaints to Gardai and so on.. teachers, GPs etc? I can't imagine such a case going ignored if
it's as serious as you're saying it is.

teachers? i wouldn't bet on it. My mams friend went to one of the neighbours kids schools to tell them he was being beaten and the school says we won't get involved you'll have to make a complaint to the gaurds yourself.

When it came to the point the gaurds had to get involved when they went to the school to ask how said child was the teaches said oh he hasn't been himself at all lately.the cheek like she knew what the child was going through and seen he was down and didn't think to say anything

marble

ElleEm wrote: »

I don't know, it seems a bit hard to believe.

If there are genuine concerns for their welfare, why can't he allow them to stay with him for a while?

Get everyone with concerns, (you, him, extended family, teachers, neighbours etc.) to ring the relevant social work team. They should arrange a home visit to check out what's really going on. They need to do an investigation to get the "hard evidence" that you are saying is so blatant.

She won't let him take his daughter for an extended period.he tried sitting down with her to explain its for the child's good but she won't have any of it

Spiritual

I feel for the kids. Surely someone from social services has to be looking at this case if complaints have been made.
Has your brother access to the his kid. He is entitled to even supervised custody. He could use this to get the child to open up in the presence of the social worker.
He needs to fight dirty I am afraid, mother's in this country are blesseth in the views of this backward country of ours.

emsie80

has he been to family court? has he made an application for custody / access??

Smidge

Not sure about this OP, not saying you are not telling the truth or anything but as other posters said this is hard to believe.

Not many people know about it but it is actually the law now that if you see, witness etc a child that is being abused YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND to report it or if not, you have broken the law.

So if you and other family members have reported this to the Gardai they must investigate.

Have the social services made an investigative visit to the house where the child lives?

marble

Spiritual wrote: »

I feel for the kids. Surely someone from social services has to be looking at this case if complaints have been made.
Has your brother access to the his kid. He is entitled to even supervised custody. He could use this to get the child to open up in the presence of the social worker.

He needs to fight dirty I am afraid, mother's in this country are blesseth in the views of this backward country of ours.

Yeah he has access every Wed,Sat&Sun.not sure if he's thought of sitting her down with someone.seems like a good idea

username123

He needs to take a custody case to court, and go with every bit of evidence he has recorded over time.

Its happened to a guy I know, same story, his ex was using heroin. In that case she would forget to collect the child after access and forget he was being collected, after quite a few incidents it came to a court case, the guy I knew won custody, but it was a long time getting there. She was known to the guards which helped.

Everything needs to be recorded, everyone (as in Guards, social worker, community health nurse etc....) needs to be constantly hassled by your brother.

keith16

Sorry to hear that OP. Maybe find out what kind of "evidence" is needed from child protection. Could be something that the local doctor or school could help provide (in terms of backing up your claims)?

Sorry I can't be of more help than that.

username123

Smidge makes a good point, hasnt the law been changed in this regard? I fail to see how neglect is not being investigated, even a cursory investigation.

Spiritual

marble wrote: »

Yeah he has access every Wed,Sat&Sun.not sure if he's thought of sitting her down with someone.seems like a good idea

Out of the mouths of babes will come the truth.

Abi

marble wrote: »

Both children regularly miss school,go hungry,appear scruffy etc.
My brother has been to the Gardai,ocial services,solicitors,fathers for justice,sent emails to various td's and even Joe Duffy,but he either gets no replies or is told it'll be kept on file.

Could your brother not go to court again with his solicitor and ask for a variation of access? The solicitor can put it across that theres concerns for the childrens welfare, and the judge can order a section 22. This is a full investigation of the childrens homes, ie yours and your exes, their schools, doctors, hospitals, the parents mental state and homelife etc. If the children have been missing school, appear scruffy, and are not being fed properly this will not have gone unnoticed in the schools. The HSE can obtain information from all of these places about those children. they also speak to the children individually.

If your brother hasn't been informed of this, he may want to re-consider using the same solicitor.

Smidge

AFAIK Username, legislation was passed this year requiring people by law to report abuse(this I would imagine is a pretty broad umbrella term with regard to children, so sexual, physical including neglect etc would come under this).

So if the OP's rels and themselves have spoken to all and sundry about this child something is off.

marble

Smidge wrote: »

Not sure about this OP, not saying you are not telling the truth or anything but as other posters said this is hard to believe.

Not many people know about it but it is actually the law now that if you see, witness etc a child that is being abused YOU ARE LEGALLY BOUND to report it or if not, you have broken the law.

So if you and other family members have reported this to the Gardai they must investigate.

Have the social services made an investigative visit to the house where the child lives?

Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report

Abi

marble wrote: »

Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report

Was this court ordered by a judge or was it because he'd reported it himself? is his access to the child court ordered also, or is it a casual arrangement?

Spiritual

.

Smidge

marble wrote: »

Yeah child protection visited her and the schools 2 weeks ago.the teachers backed up everything my brother reported but he's still waiting for them to finish their initial report

In fairness Marble, that's a bit different from what you said in the OP.

So social services ARE doing something, they are investigating(must be if they are doing a report) but just not as quickly as you would like.

Out of interest, how long has the mother been doing heroin?

marble

Trust me,if I was to read a thread like this I'd be a little sceptical too.
Its happening though and no matter who its reported to,they drag their heels and keep it on file.
Social services even let her know when they'd be calling,and because of this she pulled the wool over their eyes

Spiritual

.

username123

Spiritual wrote: »

If the mother is on heroin, can your family not just go and take the kids and see if she makes any effort to get them back.

Unless the OPs brother has guardianship thatd be kidnapping, and plenty of heroin addicts are semi functional. It would go very badly for a later legit case in court for OPs brother if he kidnapped a child now.

Op - so social services ARE doing something. Again, has he been to court regarding access?

Abi

marble wrote: »

Social services even let her know when they'd be calling,and because of this she pulled the wool over their eyes

They're not stupid either. what is going on at school and at the doctors will reflect what is REALLY going on at home. They have to build up a case of what is going on in order to be able to do something about it. Your brother is obviously very frustrated, but it doesn't happen over night. While it's not common to remove children from their mothers care, it can happen. He's just going to have to keep reporting anything untoward going on with the kids, as every bit of information can help.

marble

Spiritual wrote: »

Sometimes the law is an ass and you need to act outside it to protect the innocent.

Just saying.

Think it hasn't crossed my mind?
Thing is,if something happens her it would more likely fall back on my brother.I've been very vocal about my hatred for her

marble

username123 wrote: »

Unless the OPs brother has guardianship thatd be kidnapping, and plenty of heroin addicts are semi functional. It would go very badly for a later legit case in court for OPs brother if he kidnapped a child now.

Op - so social services ARE doing something. Again, has he been to court regarding access?

Yeah he has access through the courts but she won't let him take his daughter full time so she can get sorted

Odysseus

Spiritual wrote: »

I have to ask. If the mother is on heroin, can your family not just go and take the kids and see if she makes any effort to get them back. She may be that far gone that the heroin may be her priority. Heroin addicts don't generally like dealing with authorities.

It might also be the trigger she needs to straighten herself out.

Please don't do this, you have no legal right and will make things harder for your brother.

Is the mother on treatment for her heroin habit, ay what evidence have you that her heroin use is causing her to neglect the child?

I work in the addiction services I need something soild before I contact social services drug use itself is not enough I need to show neglect is happening.

Services are over worked I know that is no excuse but if they are investigating the issue then they are doing something.

You need document everything and keep in regular contact with social services,

Mardy Bum

The school may have kept files on the children if they have been troublesome or poorly looked after at home. Schools can call social welfare. So your best bet may be the school itself.

marble

Spiritual wrote: »

It may be, but would you worry about that if it was your kid. I don't want to come across as a rabble rouser but Jesus sometimes you have to act, his niece/nephew could now be sitting in a room with a bunch of strung out junkies.

What affect is this having on the kids, what danger are they in?

EXACTLY.

username123

Spiritual wrote: »

It may be, but would you worry about that if it was your kid. I don't want to come across as a rabble rouser but Jesus sometimes you have to act, his niece/nephew could now be sitting in a room with a bunch of strung out junkies.

What affect is this having on the kids, what danger are they in?

You have to act within the law and legal system or else you do not end up with a permanent solution and that can be even more damaging for children.

What this guy needs to be doing is going back to court, recording every bit of info, reporting everything, following up on everything etc...

Otherwise he has no permanent solution and his child keeps getting put back into the same situation.

Jesus Shaves

Spiritual wrote: »

Sometimes the law is an ass and you need to act outside it to protect the innocent.

Just saying.

Absolutely terrible advice when it comes to a case involving a child in a situation like this

Smidge

I had asked you Marble how long the mother is on heroin but re-read your OP and you say a few years.

You also say the child is now 4 years old.

So from this I take it that the mother has been on heroin for most of the child's life?

But you and your family have NOW decided the time is right to get this child removed after leaving her in that environment for all that time?????

And are pis*ed off at everyone for not doing things quick enough to rescue this child from a dangerous home that you and her father(your brother) were well aware of?

Think you are not telling the whole story there Marble

marble

Odysseus wrote: »

Please don't do this, you have no legal right and will make things harder for your brother.

Is the mother on treatment for her heroin habit, ay what evidence have you that her heroin use is causing her to neglect the child?

I work in the addiction services I need something soild before I contact social services drug use itself is not enough I need to show neglect is happening.

Services are over worked I know that is no excuse but if they are investigating the issue then they are doing something.

You need document everything and keep in regular contact with social services,

No she's not getting treatment.get this...last Sunday my brother was making his daughter dinner.he took tin foil from the press and she asked him was he gonna have a smoke.she's 4.

username123

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Absolutely terrible advice when it comes to a case involving a child in a situation like this

I agree. The OPs brother can run around wasting energy doing the wrong things or he can speak to his solicitor regarding the correct things to do and do them.

I dont think anyone on this thread should be advocating operating outside the law.

Odysseus

Spiritual wrote: »

It may be, but would you worry about that if it was your kid. I don't want to come across as a rabble rouser but Jesus sometimes you have to act, his niece/nephew could now be sitting in a room with a bunch of strung out junkies.

What affect is this having on the kids, what danger are they in?

Being in a room with other drug users will not cause the child any direct harm, I see children in the clinics waiting room all the time. Their presence will not cause any danger by itself.

If the child was in immediate danger they would have this on the home visit, however, just because the child is not in immediate danger that does not mean social services will not have to intervene.

Hopefully the level of intervention that is required is currently being established.

marble

Smidge wrote: »

I had asked you Marble how long the mother is on heroin but re-read your OP and you say a few years.

You also say the child is now 4 years old.

So from this I take it that the mother has been on heroin for most of the child's life?

But you and your family have NOW decided the time is right to get this child removed after leaving her in that environment for all that time?????

And are pis*ed off at everyone for not doing things quick enough to rescue this child from a dangerous home that you and her father(your brother) were well aware of?

Think you are not telling the whole story there Marble

My brother has been trying since the child was a baby.hits brick walls every corner he turns

Jesus Shaves

username123 wrote: »

I agree. The OPs brother can run around wasting energy doing the wrong things or he can speak to his solicitor regarding the correct things to do and do them.

I dont think anyone on this thread should be advocating operating outside the law.

If the brother breaks the law he'll only end up coming out the worse and lose any access to the child

username123

marble wrote: »

My brother has been trying since the child was a baby.hits brick walls every corner he turns

Can you detail exactly what steps your brother has taken and the results of these steps? How many times has he been to court for example and what is the judge saying re the heroin abuse?

Spiritual

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Absolutely terrible advice when it comes to a case involving a child in a situation like this

You are right. I will bow out here as I have history with an episode like this. Failing to act sooner proved long term detrimental to someone very close to me. Sometimes the process of law can be too late.

OP, I wish you and your family all the best, especially the kids.

Smidge

marble wrote: »

My brother has been trying since the child was a baby.hits brick walls every corner he turns

Sorry OP, something doesn't add up with this story for me.

I get the feeling that something on a "personal level" has happened between your family and the child's mother which doesn't have anything to do with her being an addict.

I know people like to bash social services but we have,by comparison, a decent system here so I couldn't see how your brother keeps meeting brick walls.

Odysseus

marble wrote: »

No she's not getting treatment.get this...last Sunday my brother was making his daughter dinner.he took tin foil from the press and she asked him was he gonna have a smoke.she's 4.

Right , another option is to contact her treatment provider and express you concerns for the child. Tell them you are offically inform them of these con.

Yeah, I have heard that and worse before, by itself it is not enough to remove the child. Stuff like this can be addressed quite easy, and if the parent does not engage then it can be increased.

In your opinion is the child in immediate danger, so h so that the child would NEED to be removed at once?

marble

username123 wrote: »

Can you detail exactly what steps your brother has taken and the results of these steps? How many times has he been to court for example and what is the judge saying re the heroin abuse?

Yes I can detail everything but to be honest it would take too long

username123

marble wrote: »

Yes I can detail everything but to be honest it would take too long

Well, a reasonable account - the reason I ask is that other posters will be better able to help if they know what has already been tried.

marble

Smidge wrote: »

Sorry OP, something doesn't add up with this story for me.

I get the feeling that something on a "personal level" has happened between your family and the child's mother which doesn't have anything to do with her being an addict.

I know people like to bash social services but we have,by comparison, a decent system here so I couldn't see how your brother keeps meeting brick walls.

She and us are from different counties.nothing on a "personal level" has ever happened.they were only together a couple of months

marble

Odysseus wrote: »

Right , another option is to contact her treatment provider and express you concerns for the child. Tell them you are offically inform them of these con.

Yeah, I have heard that and worse before, by itself it is not enough to remove the child. Stuff like this can be addressed quite easy, and if the parent does not engage then it can be increased.

In your opinion is the child in immediate danger, so h so that the child would NEED to be removed at once?

Yes and her other child(not related to us)is in danger too.he's 8

Smidge

marble wrote: »

Yes I can detail everything but to be honest it would take too long

Your brother has been to court, before a Judge, in relation to this?

marble

Smidge wrote: »

Your brother has been to court, before a Judge, in relation to this?

He's been to court for access and guardianship which he got.
To be honest he's been threatening to bring her to court over the last couple of years but she's turned on the tears and promised to change.things have gotten worse in the last month or so,so he's applied for a court date and is waiting to hear back.

username123

marble wrote: »

He's been to court for access and guardianship which he got.
To be honest he's been threatening to bring her to court over the last couple of years but she's turned on the tears and promised to change.things have gotten worse in the last month or so,so he's applied for a court date and is waiting to hear back.

He can hardly complain that social services are acting slowly!