child protection???don't make me laugh.

yermandan

Have you made a report marble? If not then do so asap, the more reports from different sources, the bigger the evidence against her gets and the more likely the child will receive the intervention they need

marble

username123 wrote: »

He can hardly complain that social services are acting slowly!

Read my original post.he has been trying to get anyone to help him but it was treated like a hot potato

Smidge

marble wrote: »

He's been to court for access and guardianship which he got.
To be honest he's been threatening to bring her to court over the last couple of years but she's turned on the tears and promised to change.things have gotten worse in the last month or so,so he's applied for a court date and is waiting to hear back.

If your brother has been granted Guardianship his voice would most certainly be heard by authorities with regard to the situation the child is in.

Smidge

yermandan wrote: »

Have you made a report marble? If not then do so asap, the more reports from different sources, the bigger the evidence against her gets and the more likely the child will receive the intervention they need

According to marble the social services are in the process at the moment of finalising a report.

username123

marble wrote: »

Read my original post.he has been trying to get anyone to help him but it was treated like a hot potato

But why hasnt he gone back to court? For two years he has been threatening to but then hasnt because she cried?

Something here isnt adding up. You said in the original post that she has been into heroin for a few years, then that your brother has been threatening but not following through for a couple of years, now that he has been trying to get anyone to help him but its a hot potato.

Im not really clear on what part of it to believe but am inclined to think something recent has happened that has suddenly caused your brother to jump to action.

Jesus Shaves

Smidge wrote: »

If your brother has been granted Guardianship his voice would most certainly be heard by authorities with regard to the situation the child is in.

No it wouldn't, guardianship means fuk all

marble

Smidge wrote: »

If your brother has been granted Guardianship his voice would most certainly be heard by authorities with regard to the situation the child is in.

I know that,you know that,he knows that which is why we can't understand how the kids are allowed to live in this environment given he's exhausted nearly every avenue

username123

marble wrote: »

I know that,you know that,he knows that which is why we can't understand how the kids are allowed to live in this environment given he's exhausted nearly every avenue

But he hasnt gone to court over this in 2 years! How is that exhausting every avenue?

marble

username123 wrote: »

But why hasnt he gone back to court? For two years he has been threatening to but then hasnt because she cried?

Something here isnt adding up. You said in the original post that she has been into heroin for a few years, then that your brother has been threatening but not following through for a couple of years, now that he has been trying to get anyone to help him but its a hot potato.

Im not really clear on what part of it to believe but am inclined to think something recent has happened that has suddenly caused your brother to jump to action.

Yeah she was seen at 12.15am staggering up the street with her 2 kids on tow

Odysseus

marble wrote: »

Yes and her other child(not related to us)is in danger too.he's 8

I don't know the story in this case, in my experience when I am told something needs to be done about a child, the reality does not match what the person is doing. Yes an intervention may be needed but not one that involves removing the child; things need to be really bad for this.


A mother using heroin enough by itself, to justify removing a child. As I suggested make a listhe concerns and report these toreatment provider, you may need to put it in writing, but if there is anything there they will have to act on it.
Keep on making reports and keep a log of them

Smidge

username123 wrote: »

But why hasnt he gone back to court? For two years he has been threatening to but then hasnt because she cried?

Something here isnt adding up. You said in the original post that she has been into heroin for a few years, then that your brother has been threatening but not following through for a couple of years, now that he has been trying to get anyone to help him but its a hot potato.

Im not really clear on what part of it to believe but am inclined to think something recent has happened that has suddenly caused your brother to jump to action.

I have posted almost the exact same thing a few posts back Username, something really doesn't add up. I asked Marble if there had been something recent " on a personal level" and he said "no, they were only together for a few months, live in different counties" etc.

What I don't get is how come he knows about her walking down the street at 12.15am with kids in tow if they live in different counties?


Third hand "information"?

Smidge

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

No it wouldn't, guardianship means fuk all

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/0/11b55178b0ebe941802577ea003fc000?opendocument

username123

marble wrote: »

Yeah she was seen at 12.15am staggering up the street with her 2 kids on tow

Did your brother see this himself? Does walking up the street, at any time, constitute needing an immediate intervention? Was she hitting the children or in distress herself?

I agree, its not nice if its true, but your brother has a responsibility here and he has clearly not been following through if he has not taken her to court in 2 years because she cried.

marble

username123 wrote: »

Did your brother see this himself? Does walking up the street, at any time, constitute needing an immediate intervention? Was she hitting the children or in distress herself?

I agree, its not nice if its true, but your brother has a responsibility here and he has clearly not been following through if he has not taken her to court in 2 years because she cried.

Hes given her chance after chance after chance and is now acting on behalf of his daughter.he didn't want to break up her home and take his child from her mother.

Smidge

marble wrote: »

Hes given her chance after chance after chance and is now acting on behalf of his daughter.he didn't want to break up her home and take his child from her mother.

Ah in fairness marble, if my partner was on heroin(and all that goes with it)and they had physical custody of my child, I wouldn't give two shiny ****es about "breaking up the home and taking her away from the mother".

There is no way that any sane person who genuinely thought that their child was in danger would leave the child there and "see how it goes" :rolleyes:

Jesus Shaves

Smidge wrote: »

http://www.courts.ie/courts.ie/library3.nsf/0/11b55178b0ebe941802577ea003fc000?opendocument

You can throw the links up all you want, I'm speaking from personal experience

Smidge

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

You can throw the links up all you want, I'm speaking from personal experience

The law is the law regardless of your personal experience.
OP said his brother has both guardianship, solicitor etc.
Up to OP's brother to get his solicitor to represent him in the correct fashion in order to prevail on behalf of the child.

fupduck

A few people on here seem to be doubting the OP's account, but having personal experience of a similar situation, I believe both the account, and the fact that the OP's concerns are genuine.
Family Law proceedings take time, a long time! You find yourself in a highly charged , emotional and confusing situation. Your heart screams at you to just go in and grab the child, keep them safe, your head (and all legal advisor's) tell you to play by the rule of the law.
It is very easy for posters on here to post statements such as 'no sane person would', or advise operating outside the law, but when you are actually in the situation, it is not as clear-cut as the screen you are looking at now.
You find yourself doubting every action that you make , you worry that , even though you may truly have the child's best interests at heart, anything you say or do, will be held against you and misconstrued in a court setting. You are terrified of making things worse for the child.
The best advice I could offer OP, is to stick with the court system, though maybe look at changing legal counsel. Document EVERYTHING, keep a diary of all contacts with the children , their mother, schools, welfare officers, solicitors etc. Report everything that can be reported . And please be aware, that the truth is not always told in court , I innocently thought that two sides went to court, had their say, and the judge made a decision. Blatant lies were told, and believed, so this is where your documentation will help you.
I hope things work out , and that the child is placed in a safe and loving home

Smidge

fupduck wrote: »

A few people on here seem to be doubting the OP's account, but having personal experience of a similar situation, I believe both the account, and the fact that the OP's concerns are genuine.
Family Law proceedings take time, a long time! You find yourself in a highly charged , emotional and confusing situation. Your heart screams at you to just go in and grab the child, keep them safe, your head (and all legal advisor's) tell you to play by the rule of the law.
It is very easy for posters on here to post statements such as 'no sane person would', or advise operating outside the law, but when you are actually in the situation, it is not as clear-cut as the screen you are looking at now.
You find yourself doubting every action that you make , you worry that , even though you may truly have the child's best interests at heart, anything you say or do, will be held against you and misconstrued in a court setting. You are terrified of making things worse for the child.
The best advice I could offer OP, is to stick with the court system, though maybe look at changing legal counsel. Document EVERYTHING, keep a diary of all contacts with the children , their mother, schools, welfare officers, solicitors etc. Report everything that can be reported . And please be aware, that the truth is not always told in court , I innocently thought that two sides went to court, had their say, and the judge made a decision. Blatant lies were told, and believed, so this is where your documentation will help you.
I hope things work out , and that the child is placed in a safe and loving home

I assume you are directing that at me as I was the one who said about "any sane person" etc.

If you read back through my posts(and the other posts, including the OP's) I made that comment because the OP said that they didn't do anything because the mother would "Cry" and they gave her chance after chance without involving the authorities and in the next breath he said that the father of the child hand been banging down doors since the child was a baby .

Jesus Shaves

Smidge wrote: »

The law is the law regardless of your personal experience.
OP said his brother has both guardianship, solicitor etc.
Up to OP's brother to get his solicitor to represent him in the correct fashion in order to prevail on behalf of the child.

And the law will favour the mother 99% of the time, even if she is the one in the wrong, that's my personal experience of that law.

fasttalkerchat

keith16 wrote: »

Sorry to hear that OP. Maybe find out what kind of "evidence" is needed from child protection.

No hard evidence is needed for a home visit from social services. They probably don't have the resources to deal with anything that won't be a serious issue in the next week or so.

yermandan

Smidge wrote: »

According to marble the social services are in the process at the moment of finalising a report.

I know that but my question is did he make a report himself

Jesus Shaves

Hiring a private investigator might not be a bad idea

Smidge

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

And the law will favour the mother 99% of the time, even if she is the one in the wrong, that's my personal experience of that law.

The birth mother is the natural guardian of the child but in the case where the parents are married the father is joint guardian.
If the father is not married to the mother he can apply to the courts(as did the OP's brother)to become joint guardian.

I'm just having a hard time believing the OP's story.

Doesn't make sense to me.

Jesus Shaves

Smidge wrote: »

The birth mother is the natural guardian of the child but in the case where the parents are married the father is joint guardian.
If the father is not married to the mother he can apply to the courts(as did the OP's brother)to become joint guardian.

I'm just having a hard time believing the OP's story.

Doesn't make sense to me.

And I'm telling you that guardianship for a father means fuk all

Smidge

yermandan wrote: »

I know that but my question is did he make a report himself

From what the OP is saying it seems a lot of people have been spoken to about this, Gardai, teachers, solicitors, even Joe Duffy.

Smidge

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

And I'm telling you that guardianship for a father means fuk all

So that must mean that there are no single fathers/sole carers in Ireland then?

yermandan

Smidge wrote: »

From what the OP is saying it seems a lot of people have been spoken to about this, Gardai, teachers, solicitors, even Joe Duffy.

Saw that but the reports all seem to be coming from his bro. The more people that make seperate reports, the better the case and chances for the children to get what they need

Smidge

yermandan wrote: »

Saw that but the reports all seem to be coming from his bro. The more people that make seperate reports, the better the case and chances for the children to get what they need

I'm sure the OP said that the child's teachers have been interviewed and their statements have been taken.

Jesus Shaves

Smidge wrote: »

So that must mean that there are no single fathers/sole carers in Ireland then?

Guardianship and custody are 2 completely different things, having complete care is a lot more than having just guardianship, I think you misunderstand what guardianship for a father actually is

K-9

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

Guardianship and custody are 2 completely different things, having complete care is a lot more than having just guardianship, I think you misunderstand what guardianship for a father actually is

While Guardianship doesn't mean that much, it is better having it than not in cases like this.

Jesus Shaves

K-9 wrote: »

While Guardianship doesn't mean that much, it is better having it than not in cases like this.

I'd agree with that if the judicial system starts to treat fathers equally

K-9

Jesus Shaves wrote: »

I'd agree with that if the judicial system starts to treat fathers equally

That's a different point, sometimes teachers etc. would need proof of guardianship before even talking to him, it does happen.

Jesus Shaves

K-9 wrote: »

That's a different point, sometimes teachers etc. would need proof of guardianship before even talking to him, it does happen.

Definitely, guardianship is a big bonus in this situation, I'd say to the OP to tell his brother to take full advantage of it