If Trap had gone after the euros would the team look like this?

Bowlardo

Was just thinking that we do have a decent set of footballer that can play football. I don't have much belief in trap making wholesale changes but there is a lot to be optimistic about

If Trap had gone after the euros would the team look like this?
Given
Coleman Dunne Clark Ward
McCarthy
Holohan Ireland
McGeady McClean
Long
Subs
O'shea for anyone across the back
Fahy if McCarthy is injured
Brady for holohan/rieland if either is injured
Pilkington for either winger
Keane and Doyle for long or if 4-4-2 required

EdenHazard

We do have players to play easy on the eye football(not sure where the idea that we don't come from) but that team wouldn't qualify imo, although neither should the teams he put out either and look what happened.

Blatter

I doubt Given wouldn't have retired even if Trapattoni had left.

AgileMyth

Surely Wilson would start under any other manager.

Mr.Nice Guy

Wilson is out with a broken leg.

Dunne wouldn't be available either because he's been injured for several months. His absence has been a huge factor (tho' largely ignored by the media for obvious reasons).

Rekop dog

Not a huge amount to be optimistic about. I think Coleman will nail down a regular slot in the side now, Clark has been pretty poor, McClean is shocking and not even holding down a starting place at a struggling club, neither is Ireland. We've been here before, it's a very average squad!

event

Bowlardo wrote: »

Was just thinking that we do have a decent set of footballer that can play football. I don't have much belief in trap making wholesale changes but there is a lot to be optimistic about

If Trap had gone after the euros would the team look like this?
Given
Coleman Dunne Clark Ward
McCarthy
Holohan Ireland
McGeady McClean
Long
Subs
O'shea for anyone across the back
Fahy if McCarthy is injured
Brady for holohan/rieland if either is injured
Pilkington for either winger
Keane and Doyle for long or if 4-4-2 required

God I hope not.

Given cant get into his club team.
Richard Dunne is injured.
Ward is a Donkey.
Wes houlihan is best behind a striker, why you have him as a deep midfielder?
McClean has been pretty poor so far this year.

Also, would everyone stop talking about Pilkington. He has not yet declared for Ireland. He played a friendly for the U21's years ago but sources say he hasnt given up hope on an england call up. Why would we call up a lad who has yet to let us know if he will play?

Xavi6

No manager would've had the balls to drop Robbie Keane.

Rekop dog

Xavi6 wrote: »

No manager would've had the balls to drop Robbie Keane.

Tbf he's been our most in form player at club level for the past 3 months, easily the standout player in the MLS playoffs, mock the league all you want but I think he'd still be our highest premier league scorer if he was at a lower prem club which he could be if he wanted to.

Blatter

Rekop dog wrote: »

Not a huge amount to be optimistic about. I think Coleman will nail down a regular slot in the side now, Clark has been pretty poor, McClean is in shocking form and not even holding down a starting place at a struggling club, neither is Ireland. We've been here before, it's a very average squad!

FYP

Xavi6

Rekop dog wrote: »

Tbf he's been our most in form player at club level for the past 3 months, easily the standout player in the MLS playoffs, mock the league all you want but I think he'd still be our highest premier league scorer if he was at a lower prem club which he could be if he wanted to.

I've never mocked MLS, in fact I'm a big fan of it

The point is that the OP has Long and not Keane starting under another manager. That wouldn't have happened.

Rekop dog

Blatter wrote: »

FYP

No he simply doesn't have the intelligence to sustain a career in the premier league as a regular starter. The utter predictableness of his playing style is pretty cringe to watch, he's not doing anything particularly different to what he was doing last season, just that defenders have him completely sussed now.

SirDelboy18

Rekop dog wrote: »

Tbf he's been our most in form player at club level for the past 3 months, easily the standout player in the MLS playoffs, mock the league all you want but I think he'd still be our highest premier league scorer if he was at a lower prem club which he could be if he wanted to.

He wouldn't be top scorer. Shane Long has been our most in form player over the course of the season - he offers a huge amount more than Keane.

EdenHazard

Rekop dog wrote: »

No he simply doesn't have the intelligence to sustain a career in the premier league as a regular starter. The utter predictableness of his playing style is pretty cringe to watch, he's not doing anything particularly different to what he was doing last season, just that defenders have him completely sussed now.

:rolleyes: You, a lad on Boards.ie, 'cringe' when you see a player who far exceeds whatever playing style you're ever likely to have or had. give me a break lol

Rekop dog

EdenHazard wrote: »

:rolleyes: You, a lad on Boards.ie, 'cringe' when you see a player who far exceeds whatever playing style you're ever likely to have or had. give me a break lol

Some of the greatest managers/scouts never played football at any noteworthy level. Fairly retarded point you're making that you need to exceed the abilty of a player to be able to make a judgement(and a fairly basic one in this case).

Blatter

Rekop dog wrote: »

No he simply doesn't have the intelligence to sustain a career in the premier league as a regular starter. The utter predictableness of his playing style is pretty cringe to watch, he's not doing anything particularly different to what he was doing last season, just that defenders have him completely sussed now.

I disagree. I think he's short on confidence but will regain it and start to have a similar impact to the one he had last season.

Antonio Valencia is utterly predictable yet he can be pretty effective can't he? I'm not suggesting for one minute that McClean is or will get to anywhere near his level but I disagree with the idea that a winger needs to be 'unpredictable' to be successful in the PL.

Rekop dog

Blatter wrote: »

I disagree. I think he's short on confidence but will regain it and start to have a similar impact to the one he had last season.

Antonio Valencia is utterly predictable yet he can be pretty effective can't he? I'm not suggesting for one minute that McClean is or will get to anywhere near his level but I disagree with the idea that a winger needs to be 'unpredictable' to be successful in the PL.

I think you're mixing up directness with predictability, Valencia is very direct yes but his close control is usually excellent and his ability to gauge full backs movement to go by them or create sufficent space to get an unblocked cross in is what sets him apart from most wingers.

kitakyushu

Bowlardo wrote: »

Was just thinking that we do have a decent set of footballer that can play football. I don't have much belief in trap making wholesale changes but there is a lot to be optimistic about

If Trap had gone after the euros would the team look like this?
Given
Coleman Dunne Clark Ward
McCarthy
Holohan Ireland
McGeady McClean
Long
Subs
O'shea for anyone across the back
Fahy if McCarthy is injured
Brady for holohan/rieland if either is injured
Pilkington for either winger
Keane and Doyle for long or if 4-4-2 required

If Given is there then why not Duff too? Duff is still a premiership starter and still has some more football in him. I'd have him far ahead of McClean even now at 33.

I did a check recently and we actually had something like 23-24 Irish players who've played in the Prem this season so we have a decent enough selection. Crazily something like 6 are "retired" and another 6 have been pretty much overlooked or frozen out in favour of lower league players. That's half your prem options out of the mix before a ball is even kicked.

Pro. F

Rekop dog wrote: »

No he simply doesn't have the intelligence to sustain a career in the premier league as a regular starter. The utter predictableness of his playing style is pretty cringe to watch, he's not doing anything particularly different to what he was doing last season, just that defenders have him completely sussed now.

Your eagerness to write off a young winger so quickly is idiocy.

carlop

On the McClean thing, this happens an awful lot with wingers. I'd say there's no other position where the ratio of promising talent:fulfilling that talent is so high.

Valencia is predictable, but is so good at what he does that it doesn't really make a difference.

applehunter

Agree there is a lack of subtlety in McClean's game. Aren't all wingers brainless?

But and its a big but,

he has so many other positive attributes that will serve him well.

Height & strength
Willingness to defend
Terrific crossing ability
Scores goals
Never hides in a game.

TheDoc

Rekop dog wrote: »

Tbf he's been our most in form player at club level for the past 3 months, easily the standout player in the MLS playoffs, mock the league all you want but I think he'd still be our highest premier league scorer if he was at a lower prem club which he could be if he wanted to.

Shane long might argue with you there, as would a certain Mr.Hoolahan

Rekop dog

applehunter wrote: »

Agree there is a lack of subtlety in McClean's game. Aren't all wingers brainless?

But and its a big but,

he has so many other positive attributes that will serve him well.

Height & strength
Willingness to defend
Terrific crossing ability
Scores goals
Never hides in a game.

His passing is a massive weakness in his game, has an genuinely atrocious cross completion rate, not sure how you could consider it "terrific".

Again I think the goals will (and have been) dry up with defenders more aware of his style. Yeah he has strength and heart but without much ability these will only get you so far in the long run.

Rekop dog

TheDoc wrote: »

Shane long might argue with you there, as would a certain Mr.Hoolahan

Yep they've both been very good but Keane has been the most impressive imo, not just being deceived by the weaker opposition he's playing against, some of his movement/ finishing have been just class regardless of the level, he's got stronger against the tougher opposition in playoffs too and showed last season in his brief spell at Villa that he can more than hack it still in the Prem.

noodler

event wrote: »

God I hope not.

Given cant get into his club team.
Richard Dunne is injured.
Ward is a Donkey.
Wes houlihan is best behind a striker, why you have him as a deep midfielder?
McClean has been pretty poor so far this year.

Also, would everyone stop talking about Pilkington. He has not yet declared for Ireland. He played a friendly for the U21's years ago but sources say he hasnt given up hope on an england call up. Why would we call up a lad who has yet to let us know if he will play?

Agree with you on nearly all that but bear in mind Westwood hasn't played a club game for nearly a year.

kitakyushu wrote: »

If Given is there then why not Duff too? Duff is still a premiership starter and still has some more football in him. I'd have him far ahead of McClean even now at 33.

I compeletely agree.

Without wanting to start an argument, was that your opinion before/during/after the Euros?


I was never under any doubt whatsoever that Duff was our best winger (even now I'd say) but there were certainly calls from (imo shortsighted) people for him to retire, perhaps based on the belief McClean would be the second coming.

McClean's place in the Ireland XI shouldn't be taken for granted.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Agree with you on nearly all that but bear in mind Westwood hasn't played a club game for nearly a year.

I compeletely agree.

Without wanting to start an argument, was that your opinion before/during/after the Euros?

I was never under any doubt whatsoever that Duff was our best winger (even now I'd say) but there were certainly calls from (imo shortsighted) people for him to retire, perhaps based on the belief McClean would be the second coming.

McClean's place in the Ireland XI shouldn't be taken for granted.

Before we say anything more I want to make it clear that I don't want to enter another Given v Westwood discussion with you. My point in my previous post was that if the OP thinks Given could/should be in the team then I don't see why he left Duff out.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Before we say anything more I want to make it clear that I don't want to enter another Given v Westwood discussion with you. My point in my previous post was that if the OP thinks Given could/should be in the team then I don't see why he left Duff out.

I'm just wondering if you feel, regardless of what the OP thinks, Duff would still be one of our starting wingers if he wasn't retired?

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

I'm just wondering if you feel, regardless of what the OP thinks, Duff would still be one of our starting wingers if he wasn't retired?

Absolutely. He'd be in my XI still anyway.

I think even Trap doesn't rate McClean that highly either and would still be picking Duff now if he hadn't retired. Same story if it was a different manager too I reckon.

LuckyLloyd

It will be a long time before we have a winger as good as Duff, but that's okay. The big thing that sets Duff apart is his decision making. He knows when to pass it back, to try and take a foul, to deliver it early, to give and go, to try and beat his man. He can drift inside and make an impact, marks up well enough, etc.

McClean is a physical specimen, but he has an awful lot of stuff to work on. It's a massive dropoff.

The key point here is that before the tournament people were screaming for McClean to start (many at Duff's expense), but here we are a few months after and it looks clear enough that McClean is not ready to be a dominant star for us. Form is temporary, class is permenant and all that.

Clark is also another player having a frankly dreadful season. This is the thing lads, the grass is always greener on the other side. As was noted many, many times over the years with regards to Given, Dunne, Duff, Keane and Kilbane - you'll only know what we had when they're gone. There is a big difference between players sniffing around Premiership squads with less than 80 starts at the top level under their belts and guys who had been starting at the highest level week in, week out for years.

noodler

Couldn't have said it better myself Lloyd.

Here here.




I am not going to make too many excuses for Clark but I will point out he had a good game against Arsenal on Saturday and even Dunne, who looks monumental for us, can be seen to struggle at Villa in recent times. I still think, although I'd have to bow to the superior knowledge of Villa fans, that their system could probably be more supportive to the back four at times.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is the thing lads, the grass is always greener on the other side. As was noted many, many times over the years with regards to Given, Dunne, Duff, Keane and Kilbane - you'll only know what we had when they're gone.

I'd agree with the first four of those five and I have argued as much before. But Kilbane was an absolute liability at LB and should never have been allowed to stay on as long as he did.

Beyond that, it would be misleading to just focus on Trap's faith in the old guard. The biggest flaw in his selection policy is what he has done with the other places available in the squad. Trap's reluctance to bring talented players into the squad during his reign has been criminal.

noodler

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd agree with the first four of those five and I have argued as much before. But Kilbane was an absolute liability at LB and should never have been allowed to stay on as long as he did.

Meh, two high profile incidents against Bulgaria and people clamoured for Ward who has arguably performed worse imo.

In any case, I think Lloyd was making a general point about how hard it is to replace players of their relative importance rather than arguing Kilbane should still be there i.e. we still haven't a definite replacement for Kilbane over a year after he was dropped.

Lets hope Wilson fufils the promise.

applehunter

A lot of revisionism going on.

Don't remember anyone calling for McClean over Duff in Poland. McGeady maybe. IMO McClean should have been given a chance in the Italy game. He was after having a great run of form going into the tournament.

noodler

applehunter wrote: »

A lot of revisionism going on.

Don't remember anyone calling for McClean over Duff in Poland. McGeady maybe. IMO McClean should have been given a chance in the Italy game. He was after having a great run of form going into the tournament.

Good one.

There were even more people calling on McClean to replace Duff when the Euros were over too.

applehunter

Think that is fair enough.

It was time for next generation to get their chance.

Duff recognised this and retired.

noodler

applehunter wrote: »

Think that is fair enough.

It was time for next generation to get their chance.

Duff recognised this and retired.

Thats fine.

We are just pointing out that Duff is still easily the better player atm and some (as was pointed out ad nauseam at the time) were blinded by 4 months of decent performances by McClean.

Luap

Robbie Keane is like that kid who always got picked all the time because their dad was involved in the club.

noodler

Luap wrote: »

Robbie Keane is like that kid who always got picked all the time because their dad was involved in the club.

Random.

LuckyLloyd

Luap wrote: »

Robbie Keane is like that kid who always got picked all the time because their dad was involved in the club.

Did that kid score 50 goals+ for his country and keep scoring at a rate in terms of goals per minutes on the pitch that the other kids eyeing up his place couldn't match?

Pro.F wrote:

The biggest flaw in his selection policy is what he has done with the other places available in the squad. Trap's reluctance to bring talented players into the squad during his reign has been criminal.

This has always been the heart of the point. While he hasn't gotten everything right (what manager does?), far from every golden calf of non selection has panned out over larger sample sizes. Ward is the biggest one here, really (who tries his balls off it must be said). Everyone was froathing at the mouth at Kilbane's consistent selection over him; a couple of years on everyone is froathing at the mouth that Ward is still getting picked.

You actually SHOULDN'T pick solely on the basis of form.

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

Meh, two high profile incidents against Bulgaria and people clamoured for Ward who has arguably performed worse imo.

Kilbane was a liability back there for a long time. Maybe the masses only started clamouring for him to be replaced after those incidents. I couldn't give a shít how they form their opinions.

noodler wrote: »

we still haven't a definite replacement for Kilbane over a year after he was dropped.

Trap's method of selecting players and introducing them to the first team is glacially slow. That is the reason for these types of problems. His talk of a lack of quality players is just his bullshít excuse for his own poor management of the team.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This has always been the heart of the point. While he hasn't gotten everything right (what manager does?), far from every golden calf of non selection has panned out over larger sample sizes. Ward is the biggest one here, really (who tries his balls off it must be said). Everyone was froathing at the mouth at Kilbane's consistent selection over him; a couple of years on everyone is froathing at the mouth that Ward is still getting picked.

I'm not asking for Trap to play every player that the mob gets a hard on for. But he has ignored and/or fallen out with far too many good players. This is undeniable.

Ward isn't that good? So what. There have been other options, but Trap chose to first stick with Kilbane long long past his time and then stick with Ward and ignore the other options. If Trap stopped falling out with so many players and ignoring others then he would be doing his job correctly. He could have cast Kilbane aside long before he did and tried Ward, Wislon, Kelly, O'Brien and whatever others there may be. But no, Trap moves like a glacier when selecting players and constantly talks shíte about how limited and stupid our players are.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

You actually SHOULDN'T pick solely on the basis of form.

I agree.

Rikand

Bowlardo wrote: »

If Trap had gone after the euros would the team look like this?
Given
Coleman Dunne Clark Ward
McCarthy
Holohan Ireland
McGeady McClean
Long

Steven Ireland should never play for Ireland, EVER!

ronsgonawin

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yep they've both been very good but Keane has been the most impressive imo, not just being deceived by the weaker opposition he's playing against, some of his movement/ finishing have been just class regardless of the level, he's got stronger against the tougher opposition in playoffs too and showed last season in his brief spell at Villa that he can more than hack it still in the Prem.

Didnt play up front for villa last year.!

applehunter

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yep they've both been very good but Keane has been the most impressive imo, not just being deceived by the weaker opposition he's playing against, some of his movement/ finishing have been just class regardless of the level, he's got stronger against the tougher opposition in playoffs too and showed last season in his brief spell at Villa that he can more than hack it still in the Prem.

What load of crap.

Shane Long is not hacking it the Premier League.

He is excelling in the Premier League.

He should be the No. 1 Irish striker.

Robbie Keane can still be an option from the bench but he deserves to be dropped from being the 1st choice. And that's been the case for the last 18 months tbh.

If Doyle, Walters, Cox & Long weren't about he would be a definite starter.

But they are around

LuckyLloyd

Uh, Doyle? Yeah Keane is a far superior option even now.

Walters is a hero, but there ain't many goals in his boots.

Long isn't "excelling" in the Premiership. He has 13 in 45 games at that level and puts in a shift. Good player, but it's okay in a relative sense.

Seasons come and go but Robbie Keane remains bafflingly under appreciated by Irish fans.

applehunter

I appreciate do Robbie Keane.

However he is not infallible.

He is subject to the diminishing returns from old age like anyone else.

His performances in an Ireland shirt for the last 18 months bare that out.

Shane Long and the rest are in their primes. Their time is now.

yabadabado

To play a system where our midfield isnt torn apart I think Long is our best option playing one upfront .Keane has been brilliant for Ireland and I wouldnt want him to retire but his days as first choice should be over.3 in central midfield and 1 up front should be used .

Liam O

yabadabado wrote: »

To play a system where our midfield isnt torn apart I think Long is our best option playing one upfront .Keane has been brilliant for Ireland and I wouldnt want him to retire but his days as first choice should be over.3 in central midfield and 1 up front should be used .

2 centre mids and Walters in the hole behind Long would be how I'd play the middle.

Mr.Nice Guy

I think the way this debate is being framed - Long or Keane - is all wrong. The answer is not 'either...or' but both.

This season Keane has been in sensational form for LA Galaxy with players like Landon Donovan crediting him with the team's great run of form. The success of the team has come from pairing Keane with Donovan up top and as we all know from watching him over the years, Keane performs best when he has a forward partner alongside him.

Keane being up top should not be detrimental to the Irish side because he is able to drop deep effectively, and highlighted this in his spell at Villa on loan last season. He's also shown it at Galaxy this season as well. There's a very interesting article on ESPN with LA Galaxy assistant coach Dave Sarachan and Vancouver assistant coach Carl Robinson touching on this attribute of his:

"What Keane and Donovan have been able to establish as a partnership is a deep level of understanding of how to play, how to combine and use one another, see things ahead of time," Sarachan said. "And do it at such a speed that, for two forwards that aren't necessarily back-to-goal target guys, it's really difficult to defend."

And without question, Keane's ability is still considerable even in the later stages of his career. Sarachan remarked that the forward doesn't necessarily tick all the boxes in terms of athleticism but more than makes up for it in terms of guile and movement, the core of Keane's success. He's especially adept at dropping into midfield and allowing players such as Mike Magee and Christian Wilhelmsson to make late runs into the space Keane has vacated.

"There are a lot of times over the course of the season where, as a staff, we say to ourselves, 'We really wish Robbie would stay higher because we really don’t want him in the midfield,'" Sarachan said. “But there’s a method to his madness because, when he does withdraw deep, it really puts a burden on the opponent to now recognize it."

Vancouver assistant coach Carl Robinson, who as a 19-year-old with English side Wolverhampton Wanderers, saw a 16-year-old Keane break into the side, is well aware of the problems his old teammate poses. When he suggested that the best way to stop Keane is to "kick him," it's clear that he's joking. Mostly. But Robinson added that the choice is to either have a center back follow Keane into midfield and hope the holding midfielder covers the space behind, or to pass Keane on to one of the midfielders in front of them. Executing such a plan is another matter entirely.

"It becomes difficult because the timing needs to be correct, the information needs to be correct," Robinson said. "If that's not correct, Keane is clever enough to play in between and stand still. Then he's not playing up front and he's not playing in midfield. He's playing in that little hole, and the majority of the time he gets the ball in that hole and turns, they end up with a cross or an effort on goal. That's a huge danger."

When we have a player with this gift of movement - who clearly can also find the net - the idea of dropping him is bonkers in my opinion.

The problem with Ireland is we don't have a Magee type - ironic considering the name - i.e. someone who can ghost in from deeper in midfield and exploit the space Keane can open up. Perhaps McCarthy can grow into this role -I think this is Trap's hope - and I think it's an idea we ought to persist with as McCarthy can offer more of a presence in midfield than a Hoolahan for example, and is seemingly the best central midfield option for getting a goal.

I think against the Swedes Keane will be vital. Long, like Donovan, has the ability to not only cause problems in the box but pull defenders wide as he has done for the Irish team and West Brom. I feel a partnership of Keane and Long can cause the Swedish central defenders real difficulty.

The article I highlighted however also emphasises the importance of the team having defensive solidity to allow for the attacking options to work:

But just as there was more than one reason for Keane's funk, there are multiple explanations for the renaissance that saw him score 13 regular-season goals after the Euros. The return of goalkeeper Josh Saunders from a stint in the league's behavioral health program, coupled with Gonzalez's recovery, saw L.A.'s defense tighten up considerably. Holding midfielder Juninho regained his fitness and served as a more effective barrier in front of the back line. This allowed other elements of L.A.'s offense, including outside backs Sean Franklin and Todd Dunivant, the confidence to contribute more to the attack and create more chances for the entire team.

"If you're an attacking player, subliminally you're thinking, 'I can start to take these risks because we'll be fine in the back,'" said L.A. assistant coach Dave Sarachan via telephone. "It takes a little burden off the chasing and running. It's not that you allow everyone else to do it for you, but it does sort of ripple through the team."

We have been without our first choice central defence and Westwood of late and it looks like we will be without Wilson too. Having a fit defence is going to be vital against Zlatan and co and this goes without saying but we also return to the same core issue we've had over the years - to play Keane and a partner up top you need to have this 'effective barrier' behind so that the team defensively holds up its end of the bargain.

I think a lot of the emphasis on formations - 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 - misses the point because if you do a 4-4-2 with Keane you could argue you essentially have a 4-5-1 because of what Keane brings to the game with the way he drops deep.

That's why I would argue Trap should not be condemned when he talks about Hoolahan possibly not being the right call against the Swedes next year. Because to play Hoolahan probably means having to sideline Keane since he is not as effective in the lone striker role as we know.

For me, Keane cannot be dropped at this moment. It is as straightforward as that. Keane offers something no other Irish player has: an unequalled capacity to cause doubt and indecision within opposition defences. My feeling is that our best hope of a result against Sweden is a 4-4-2 with Keane dropping deep - as I said this will take the form of a 4-5-1 in practice anyway so no need to get hung up on the formation question - with Long as his partner and a strong central midfield involving McCarthy that gives license to McCarthy to get forward when the opportunity presents itself.

I believe Trap will opt for this approach and I think for the prospects of a good result it is the best approach.

Blatter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Uh, Doyle? Yeah Keane is a far superior option even now.

Walters is a hero, but there ain't many goals in his boots.

Long isn't "excelling" in the Premiership. He has 13 in 45 games at that level and puts in a shift. Good player, but it's okay in a relative sense.

Seasons come and go but Robbie Keane remains bafflingly under appreciated by Irish fans.

Robbie Keane has 11 goals in his last 42 PL appearances and he has undoubtedly declined since many of those games. I'm not saying that this goal return proves anything either way, I just think you're making Long's goal return sound worse than what it is.

Keane is an Irish legend and I really appreciate what he has done for the country from a footballing perspective, but it's as clear as day to me now that Long is the superior option.

Pro. F

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think the way this debate is being framed - Long or Keane - is all wrong. The answer is not 'either...or' but both.

I agree with this if you are going 442. Long has a great physical ability which could work well with Keane.

Personally I would prefer the team to play 451 and Hoolihan offers a lot more when playing in the hole than Keane imo. And Long offers a lot more than Keane as the lone man up front.

So Keane would be benched in my eleven, but even now I still have big respect for Keane's nose for goal and I can appreciate the argument for starting him.