The Academies

Ruck Inspector

Hagz wrote: »

Yes there's a good crop of centres coming through. I'll be interested to see how Sebastien Fromm does out of school, and then you have Fergal Cleary and Andy Marks who have the potential to be picked up out of school.

If I'm not mistaken, after this season, Tom Daly will be the only centre in the Academy (excluding Byrne who I think will go down the back-three path), so I'd expect a couple to be taken in.

Fergal Cleary, Adam Leavy and Andy Marks are going into 6th year and are all talented, rate Cleary highest right now. All three u19 next year.

Harrison Brewer and Michael Courtney are both eligible u19 next year aswell, both are leaving school this year though. Have heard Brewer will be skipping to u20 level though not sure about Courtney.

Sebastian Fromm, I think is u20 this season along with Robb and O'Loughlin

Hagz

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Sebastian Fromm, I think is u20 this season along with Robb and O'Loughlin

I'm not sure about Fromm, but given that he's still in school I'd say he's u19. Robb and O'Loughlin are both u19. They paired together this year against England and France.

stellenbosch

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Fergal Cleary, Adam Leavy and Andy Marks are going into 6th year and are all talented, rate Cleary highest right now. All three u19 next year.

Harrison Brewer and Michael Courtney are both eligible u19 next year aswell, both are leaving school this year though. Have heard Brewer will be skipping to u20 level though not sure about Courtney.

Sebastian Fromm, I think is u20 this season along with Robb and O'Loughlin

Agree that Cleary is a veryt talented centre as ge proved with Leinster and Ireland U18S

Would say that from what i have seen Marks is a full back and Leavy is a winger-doers not have the physical presence to play centre at the top level. Courtney leaving CBC and is in the LU19 panel for next season.

Ruck Inspector

Hagz wrote: »

I'm not sure about Fromm, but given that he's still in school I'd say he's u19. Robb and O'Loughlin are both u19. They paired together this year against England and France.

Sorry I meant u20 next season with Robb and O'Loughlin.

I assume Fromm wouldn't be viewed as a NIQ player, hard to really know.

lurtz

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Sorry I meant u20 next season with Robb and O'Loughlin.

I assume Fromm wouldn't be viewed as a NIQ player, hard to really know.

well he's been here 3 years,just like Vas Artemyev was, and was asked to play Irish schools Im pretty sure but didnt because of his allegiance to Germany

RobbieRuns

stellenbosch wrote: »

Agree that Cleary is a veryt talented centre as ge proved with Leinster and Ireland U18S

Would say that from what i have seen Marks is a full back and Leavy is a winger-doers not have the physical presence to play centre at the top level. Courtney leaving CBC and is in the LU19 panel for next season.

personally I have always thought moving forward that Cleary should try for scrum half, for me he is to small to be a centre. He is a talented boy though.

Hagz

RobbieRuns wrote: »

personally I have always thought moving forward that Cleary should try for scrum half, for me he is to small to be a centre. He is a talented boy though.

Is he any shorter than Olding though. I don't know his height so I can't really make judgement, but the likes of Marshall,D'Arcy,O'Malley and Olding aren't so tall themselves.

Ruck Inspector

Hagz wrote: »

Is he any shorter than Olding though. I don't know his height so I can't really make judgement, but the likes of Marshall,D'Arcy,O'Malley and Olding aren't so tall themselves.

you are forgetting about BOD, who is 5'9.5

Cleary is around 5'10, but he is certainly not of slight build.

Hagz

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

you are forgetting about BOD, who is 5'9

Yeah but Brian O'Driscoll is the exception to any rule so I left him out of it.

RobbieRuns

I thought 5'8 to 5'9 but you might grab another inch at best. He is a good player with a great side step, just think that with his good hands that he might be suited to a role at scrum half. Not very many international centres at less than 5'10 now. Messers D'arcy and BOD have always been the exception.

Ruck Inspector

some academy guys in here, plus lots of Barry Daly tries

Hagz

I'm disappointed Daly didn't get an Academy spot. Hopefully he plays impresses in the AIL and get a spot off that.

Ruck Inspector

Hagz wrote: »

I'm disappointed Daly didn't get an Academy spot. Hopefully he plays impresses in the AIL and get a spot off that.

Getting a bit old for an academy spot at this stage, turns 21 this year if he hasnt already.

If I was Leinster I'd have him in this preseason and have a long look at him to see of he could contribute this year.

irishbucsfan

That step and turn of pace from SCM was pretty epic.

Ruck Inspector

Think Tom Farrell could earn an academy spot during the jwc

thomond2006

James Connolly (Back Row)

Conor Kindregan (Lock)

Rory Moloney (Back Row)

Saba Meunargia (Tight-Head Prop)

Sean O’Brien (Back Row/Lock)

David Panter (Back Three)

Rory Parata (Centre)

Jacob Walsh (Loose-Head Prop)

- See more at: http://www.connachtrugby.ie/2013061283340/carolan-recruits-academy-players-for-season-ahead#sthash.CK2fny2c.OOeuEPwu.dpuf

ormond lad

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Leinster and Munster Academies for next year:
Loosehead Jacob Walshe (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Loosehead James Treacy(Year 3 - Leinster - 22) - could be at Hooker.
Loosehead Ed Byrne(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Loosehead Peter Dooley(Year 1 - Leinster - 19)
Loosehead Niall Horan(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Hooker Brian Byrne(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Tighthead Tadhg Furlong(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Tighthead Saba Meunargia (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Lock Tadhg Beirne(Year 2 - Leinster - 21)
Lock Gavin Thornbury(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Lock Darren O'Shea(Year 1 - Munster - 21)
Lock Sean McCarthy(Year 1 - Munster - 20)
Lock John Madigan(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Lock Ross Molony(Year 1 - Leinster - 18)
Lock Conor Kindregan (Year 1- Connacht - 22)
Backrow Shane Buckley(Year 3 - Munster - 21)
Backrow Conor Gilsenan(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Backrow Jack Conan(Year 2 - Leinster - 21)
Backrow Josh Van Der Flier(Year 2 - Leinster - 20)
Backrow Ryan Murphy(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Backrow Dan Leavy(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Backrow James Connolly (Year 1 - Connacht - 20)
Backrow Jack O'Donoghue(Year 2 - Munster - 19)
Backrow Sean O Brien (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Backrow Rory Moloney (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Scrumhalf Luke McGrath(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Scrumhalf Brian Haugh(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Scrumhalf Jack Cullen(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Outhalf Cathal Marsh(Year 2 - Leinster - 20)
Outhalf Johnny Holland(Year 2 - Munster - 21)
Outhalf Steve Crosbie(Year 1 - Leinster - 20)
Outhalf Gearoid Lyons(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Centre Colm O'Shea(Year 3 - Leinster - 22)
Centre Jordan Coghlan(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Centre Harry McNulty(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Centre Tom Daly(Year 1 - Leinster - 20)
Centre Rory Scannell(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Cenre Rory Parata (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Wing Andrew Boyle(Year 3 - Leinster - 22)
Wing Sam Coughlan Murray(Year 3 - Leinster - 21)
Wing Darren Moroney(Year 2 - Munster - 22)
Wing Adam Byrne(Year 1 - Leinster - 19) - could also be at centre.
Wing Greg O'Shea(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Wing David Panter (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Fullback Darren Sweetnam(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Fullback David Johnston(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Fullback Billy Dardis(Year 1 - Leinster - 18)

Updated list with Connacht academy members

Is there a list of all players in Ulster academy? I know there is slight differences between Ulster and the other provinces academies?

Fireball07

Only 2 THs in 3 provinces...not a lot considering there's 5 LHs. Although, Ed Byrne can play there can't he?

Only 1 hooker is a bit surprising (although there is Treacy), but I suppose Munster just had 2 finish up in the academy.


Munster, once more, have lots of locks but now we have 2 centres and 2 OHs which is good. Hopefully some of them will come through.



Depth in the back row looks amazing, some serious potential there.

Childish Donald

ormond lad wrote: »

Updated list with Connacht academy members

Is there a list of all players in Ulster academy? I know there is slight differences between Ulster and the other provinces academies?

You only put in first year connacht members.

Loosehead Finlay Bealham(Year 2 - Connacht - 22)
Tighthead Jamie Dever(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)
Tighthead Peter Reilly(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Lock Ultan Dillane(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)
Scrumhalf Marcus Walsh(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Outhalf Jack Carty(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Centre Tadhg Leader(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Centre Conor Finn(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Wing Steve Macauley(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Fullback Shane Layden(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Fullback Daragh Leader(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)

ormond lad

This should be all players of Connacht academy included. Tks Childish Donald

Loosehead James Treacy(Year 3 - Leinster - 22) - could be at Hooker.
Loosehead Ed Byrne(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Loosehead Peter Dooley(Year 1 - Leinster - 19)
Loosehead Niall Horan(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Loosehead Finlay Bealham(Year 2 - Connacht - 22)
Loosehead Jacob Walshe (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Hooker Brian Byrne(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Tighthead Tadhg Furlong(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Tighthead Jamie Dever(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)
Tighthead Peter Reilly(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Tighthead Saba Meunargia (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Lock Tadhg Beirne(Year 2 - Leinster - 21)
Lock Gavin Thornbury(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Lock Darren O'Shea(Year 1 - Munster - 21)
Lock Sean McCarthy(Year 1 - Munster - 20)
Lock John Madigan(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Lock Ross Molony(Year 1 - Leinster - 18)
Lock Ultan Dillane(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)
Lock Conor Kindregan (Year 1- Connacht - 22)
Backrow Shane Buckley(Year 3 - Munster - 21)
Backrow Conor Gilsenan(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Backrow Jack Conan(Year 2 - Leinster - 21)
Backrow Josh Van Der Flier(Year 2 - Leinster - 20)
Backrow Ryan Murphy(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Backrow Dan Leavy(Year 2 - Leinster - 19)
Backrow James Connolly (Year 1 - Connacht - 20)
Backrow Sean O Brien (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Backrow Rory Moloney (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Backrow Jack O'Donoghue(Year 2 - Munster - 19)
Scrumhalf Luke McGrath(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Scrumhalf Brian Haugh(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Scrumhalf Jack Cullen(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Scrumhalf Marcus Walsh(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Outhalf Cathal Marsh(Year 2 - Leinster - 20)
Outhalf Johnny Holland(Year 2 - Munster - 21)
Outhalf Steve Crosbie(Year 1 - Leinster - 20)
Outhalf Gearoid Lyons(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Outhalf Jack Carty(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Centre Colm O'Shea(Year 3 - Leinster - 22)
Centre Jordan Coghlan(Year 3 - Leinster - 20)
Centre Harry McNulty(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Centre Tom Daly(Year 1 - Leinster - 20)
Centre Rory Parata (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Centre Rory Scannell(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Centre Tadhg Leader(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Centre Conor Finn(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)
Wing Andrew Boyle(Year 3 - Leinster - 22)
Wing Sam Coughlan Murray(Year 3 - Leinster - 21)
Wing Darren Moroney(Year 2 - Munster - 22)
Wing Adam Byrne(Year 1 - Leinster - 19) - could also be at centre.
Wing Greg O'Shea(Year 1 - Munster - 18)
Wing Steve Macauley(Year 2 - Connacht - 21)
Wing Dave Panter (Year 1 - Connacht - 19)
Fullback Darren Sweetnam(Year 2 - Munster - 20)
Fullback David Johnston(Year 1 - Munster - 19)
Fullback Billy Dardis(Year 1 - Leinster - 18)
Fullback Daragh Leader(Year 2 - Connacht - 20)
Fullback Shane Layden(Year 3 - Connacht - 21)

FrannoFan

Ruck Inspector wrote: »

Think Tom Farrell could earn an academy spot during the jwc

might be right, very good today against NZ and against Oz last week. impressive considering the time he was out injured.

Munster13

I hope Tom Farrell joins the Munster academy, hes looked good when ive seen him play in the JWC, as well as Darren Sweetnam, Rory Scannell and Jack O'Donoghue, i think all 3 of them will get development contracts with Munster in the next year or 2, they have real talent, but from the 3 im looking forward to seeing Sweetnam more, he looks brilliant at wing and at fullback

Wexfordboy89

anyone know if that german kid from clongowes wood is getting an academy/sub academy spot?looked good from the bits ive seen of him on tv.sebastian fromm is his name i think?

Hagz

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

anyone know if that german kid from clongowes wood is getting an academy/sub academy spot?looked good from the bits ive seen of him on tv.sebastian fromm is his name i think?

Definitely not getting an Academy spot.

lurtz

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

anyone know if that german kid from clongowes wood is getting an academy/sub academy spot?looked good from the bits ive seen of him on tv.sebastian fromm is his name i think?

hes meant to be playing 20s this summer,dont know if he will cos he didnt play 19s last year

Morf

lurtz wrote: »

hes meant to be playing 20s this summer,dont know if he will cos he didnt play 19s last year

Surely there wouldn't be any nationality issues for him because of the free movement and labour laws in Europe. Unlike Artymiev for example.

lurtz

Morf wrote: »

Surely there wouldn't be any nationality issues for him because of the free movement and labour laws in Europe. Unlike Artymiev for example.

no it was more that he didnt want to spend his 3 months holidays still in Ireland

Morf

lurtz wrote: »

no it was more that he didnt want to spend his 3 months holidays still in Ireland

I thought Artymiev couldn't qualify because schooling didn't count towards his residency, no?

Hagz

Morf wrote: »

I thought Artymiev couldn't qualify because schooling didn't count towards his residency, no?

I think he was actually call back to Russia for mandatory military service.

lurtz

Morf wrote: »

I thought Artymiev couldn't qualify because schooling didn't count towards his residency, no?

I meant Fromm

Morf

lurtz wrote: »

I meant Fromm

Fair enough.

JagerScout

Interestingly enough Munster have put up some of the profiles for their new recruits.

John Madigan listed at 6'6.5 and 117kg, turns 19 in september.
Darren O'Shea listed at almost 6'9, turns 21 in december.

Interested to watch their progress, certainly big enough.

ormond lad

JagerScout wrote: »

Interestingly enough Munster have put up some of the profiles for their new recruits.

John Madigan listed at 6'6.5 and 117kg, turns 19 in september.
Darren O'Shea listed at almost 6'9, turns 21 in december.

Interested to watch their progress, certainly big enough.

Academy profiles up now that academy are back for pre season training
Some very big players in 2nd row with Madigan a real class act and best of the 3 2nd rows who joined this year IMO.

Will be interesting where the lads straight from school and the likes of Cullen go for their club rugby. G O Shea will nearly def go back to Shannon. Don't know which club Lyons will join but I think Cullen will be with Munsters next season.

Aiden7

JagerScout wrote: »

Interestingly enough Munster have put up some of the profiles for their new recruits.

John Madigan listed at 6'6.5 and 117kg, turns 19 in september.
Darren O'Shea listed at almost 6'9, turns 21 in december.

Interested to watch their progress, certainly big enough.

John Madigan sounds about the same size as Iain Henderson but younger, hopefully he plays like Henderson too.

Darren O'Shea is a monster!Bigger than Thornbury at Leinster, bigger than that huge English lock at the JWC this year Tom Price who is almost 2 stone lighter than O'Shea.
Sean McCarthy looked ok at the JWC, big unit seems to be more a workhorse type lock.

I guess Munster must not have too much faith in the likes of Nagle and Foley, if they are bringing 3 locks into the academy this year, good to see that Madigan, O'Shea and McCarthy are already very physically developed.

ormond lad

Aiden7 wrote: »

John Madigan sounds about the same size as Iain Henderson but younger, hopefully he plays like Henderson too.

Darren O'Shea is a monster!Bigger than Thornbury at Leinster, bigger than that huge English lock at the JWC this year Tom Price who is almost 2 stone lighter than O'Shea.
Sean McCarthy looked ok at the JWC, big unit seems to be more a workhorse type lock.

I guess Munster must not have too much faith in the likes of Nagle and Foley, if they are bringing 3 locks into the academy this year, good to see that Madigan, O'Shea and McCarthy are already very physically developed.

Don't think bringing in 3 2nd rows means bad news for Nagle/Foley or a lack of faith in either. POC/DOC/DR will not be around for 5+ years and there is not many other 2nd rows contracted apart from Nagle/Foley so we signing 3 2nd rows to academy is required.

JagerScout

they are all obviously talented, if they reach the standard required no province has the luxury at second row to ignore them.

Was concerned about O'Shea as he would be a tad old for joining the academy but he is more than likely just a slow developer especially in that big frame

ormond lad

JagerScout wrote: »

they are all obviously talented, if they reach the standard required no province has the luxury at second row to ignore them.

Was concerned about O'Shea as he would be a tad old for joining the academy but he is more than likely just a slow developer especially in that big frame

How is O Shea too Old? He's not even 21 yet. 3 years in academy and he'll be 23 by end of third academy season.
Don't think he's slow developer at all. Played all age groups with Munster and played at irish 19s level and done well at AIL level with Dolphin past few seasons

JagerScout

not too old, also thought he was already 21.

just he is a year above under 20 level and thats usually pretty late to get an academy offer.

at nearly 6'9 he has a lot of potential, still a bit light too for his height.

Aiden7

ormond lad wrote: »

Don't think bringing in 3 2nd rows means bad news for Nagle/Foley or a lack of faith in either. POC/DOC/DR will not be around for 5+ years and there is not many other 2nd rows contracted apart from Nagle/Foley so we signing 3 2nd rows to academy is required.

I forgot DR is almost 30, what is happening with DOC2 is he going to be a 2nd row long term or stay as a backrow?

CGD

Could be a Leinster centre on his way to Munster Academy. Leinster asleep at the wheel if true. Tom Farrell not offered Leinster Academy.Everyone except Leinster seem to be clamaring to get him including Ospreys and a couple of English Clubs

Buer

CGD wrote: »

Could be a Leinster centre on his way to Munster Academy. Leinster asleep at the wheel if true. Tom Farrell not offered Leinster Academy.Everyone except Leinster seem to be clamaring to get him including Ospreys and a couple of English Clubs

Wouldn't be surprised. Leinster have already taken on a couple of centres for next season. You can't accommodate everyone. Mark Roche is at Connacht too.

Farrell was good during the JWC and has a great breaking threat but made some big errors too. Silly offloads, silly penalties etc. that cost his side. He definitely has the promise to make it in the game but it doesn't look like it will be at his home province.

CGD

Buer wrote: »

Wouldn't be surprised. Leinster have already taken on a couple of centres for next season. You can't accommodate everyone. Mark Roche is at Connacht too.

Farrell was good during the JWC and has a great breaking threat but made some big errors too. Silly offloads, silly penalties etc. that cost his side. He definitely has the promise to make it in the game but it doesn't look like it will be at his home province.

Maybe so but Irish 20's was his 1st games all season as he was out injured, named in team of the tournament at JWC and I think this is one we will regret not signing in the future

JagerScout

would be an error in my book alright, wake up girvan.

jamiedav2011

JagerScout wrote: »

would be an error in my book alright, wake up girvan.

I'd say they're well aware of Farrell, and it might be on account of the talent at centre that's coming through in the next few years. You've already got Daly and Adam Byrne in there, and Brewer will likely follow, along with Coghlan, O'Shea + Reid from the current crop.

Wouldn't be surprised to see this happen more and more with Leinster, only so many can make the academy in a given year.

JagerScout

Not a single player there is a sure thing to make it... Based on the JWC there is no debate who is a better player between Byrne and Farrell.

Daly is a inside centre as is Coghlan, who knows if Coghlan will even be good enough there either. Then it comes down to O'Shea and Reid, O'Shea just missed most of the season with injury and Reid is realistically a utility back and hardly someone who is a sure thing to make it much further than that.

Not as much depth and talent as some people like to think.

jamiedav2011

JagerScout wrote: »

Not a single player there is a sure thing to make it... Based on the JWC there is no debate who is a better player between Byrne and Farrell.

Daly is a inside centre as is Coghlan, who knows if Coghlan will even be good enough there either. Then it comes down to O'Shea and Reid, O'Shea just missed most of the season with injury and Reid is realistically a utility back and hardly someone who is a sure thing to make it much further than that.

Not as much depth and talent as some people like to think.

Exactly. It's an educated guess, and the guess that Leinster seem to be taking at the moment is that Farrell isn't worth bringing in because there's already depth there, including the likes of Macken and EOM at senior level. Based on the JWC, Andrew Conway would be a Lion by now.

Considering the track record of Girve and the academy team, I'd tend to take their word for it.

You also seem to be downplaying a lot of what's there without mentioning that Farrell also has some serious flaws.

In any case, who knows, he may be sub academy when the season starts.

irishbucsfan

Isnt this the first year Dempsey has taken over from McEntee?

Hagz

Maybe they rate O'Loughlin and Cleary more.... I'm perfectly happy to see Farrell taken into the Munster academy. I just want to see him in some form of an academy in Ireland.

JagerScout

The point is, is that Farrell has shown the same talent level as all of those players you listed. And in some cases shown more himself to have more talent. Leinster do not have a young centre who has been a standout as of yet, Farrell could easily be that player.

jamiedav2011

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Isnt this the first year Dempsey has taken over from McEntee?

I was referring to his A record more than anything, not sure if he's been heavily involved in academy.