The Academies

iminterestd0

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Still quiet small will be intresting to see how he goes in AIL first and foremost if he goes well there then he has a chance but still unproven at big boy level and wouldn't be in the same space as Lamour was coming from school as an example

pretty much this, Turner not in the same bracket as Larmour talent wise if they are similarly sized, also leinster have a lot of players in his position group in the academy at the moment so no need to rush him.

iminterestd0

Clegg wrote: »

The spectre of Billy Dardis looms large.

excellent schools player but his lack of elite athleticism/size held him back.

his brother has a better chance, if he can focus on rugby.

ArmchairQB

iminterestd0 wrote: »

excellent schools player but his lack of elite athleticism/size held him back.

his brother has a better chance, if he can focus on rugby.

Wouldn't agree with that at all his problem was himself and his head to much to early and not mature enough to handle it. Head wasn't right and didn't have the drive or desire required. He is a fine athlete and decent size for his position and is showing that at 7s. He could possibly play 15s again in the future as a pro at a lower level than leinster if he had the desire to

iminterestd0

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that at all his problem was himself and his head to much to early and not mature enough to handle it. Head wasn't right and didn't have the drive or desire required. He is a fine athlete and decent size for his position and is showing that at 7s. He could possibly play 15s again in the future as a pro at a lower level than leinster if he had the desire to

He plays 9 at 7's, he isn't an top end explosive athlete and that was clear even at under-20 level.

To survive at his size at pro level you need Larmour levels of pace, explosiveness and agility along with a large amount of skill, Billy didn't have that.

D14Rugby

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Wouldn't agree with that at all his problem was himself and his head to much to early and not mature enough to handle it. Head wasn't right and didn't have the drive or desire required. He is a fine athlete and decent size for his position and is showing that at 7s. He could possibly play 15s again in the future as a pro at a lower level than leinster if he had the desire to

Talking out your hole there. The reasons he didn't make it are nothing to do with his maturity, drive or desire and they're fairly well documented at this stage

iminterestd0

5 most likely players to join Leinster Academy next season:

Thomas Clarkson
Charlie Ryan
Cormac Foley
David Hawkshaw
Liam Turner

Ayewserious

He will get plenty of game time over the season

Ayewserious

iminterestd0 wrote: »

excellent schools player but his lack of elite athleticism/size held him back.

his brother has a better chance, if he can focus on rugby.

His brother is going well for ternure 1st

Heymans

iminterestd0 wrote: »

5 most likely players to join Leinster Academy next season:

Thomas Clarkson
Charlie Ryan
Cormac Foley
David Hawkshaw
Liam Turner

Any idea of the top prospects from the schools Cup this season who are in with a shout of getting academy places? Please list them by school

Babygotback

Chris Cosgravey (St Michael’s College)
Zack Boyle (St Michael’s College)

Heymans

Babygotback wrote: »

Chris Cosgravey (St Michael’s College)
Zack Boyle (St Michael’s College)

Cosgrave is only 5th year

iminterestd0

Babygotback wrote: »

Chris Cosgravey (St Michael’s College)
Jack Boyle (St Michael’s College)

both are in 5th year.

I don't think there is any obvious players in 6th year who could join the academy straight out of school.. maybe

Ed Brennan - Blackrock

DonVito

iminterestd0 wrote: »

both are in 5th year.

I don't think there is any obvious players in 6th year who could join the academy straight out of school.. maybe

Ed Brennan - Blackrock

Maybe Andrew Smith. Leinster could do with some wingers in the Academy next season.

iminterestd0

DonVito wrote: »

Maybe Andrew Smith. Leinster could do with some wingers in the Academy next season.

don't see it.. they just had 2 wingers join academy

DonVito

iminterestd0 wrote: »

don't see it.. they just had 2 wingers join academy

Aaron O'Sullivan and ?

iminterestd0

DonVito wrote: »

Aaron O'Sullivan and ?

Michael Silvester.

Liam Turner very likely to join academy on wing too.

DonVito

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Michael Silvester.

Liam Turner very likely to join academy on wing too.

I wouldn't really class Silvester as a winger though.

Yes I suppose with Turner joining it's unlikely they'll bring Smith straight in.

iminterestd0

DonVito wrote: »

I wouldn't really class Silvester as a winger though.

Yes I suppose with Turner joining it's unlikely they'll bring Smith straight in.

he has been playing wing for DUFC and Leinster A.

DonVito

Thinking about it, it looks like it could be a very underwhelming intake. Aside from Hawkshaw, there isn't a standout individual I can see coming in.

iminterestd0

DonVito wrote: »

Thinking about it, it looks like it could be a very underwhelming intake. Aside from Hawkshaw, there isn't a standout individual I can see coming in.

Will have to wait and see who impresses for 20s and in schools cup.

with Baird, Milne and Penny joining straight from school it wasn't going to be a big name class with a relatively weak u19 group.

although u19 group won the interpros.. so maybe players will emerge/surprise.

someone in the u20 age group like Cormac Foley is underrated as he hasn't been focusing on scrumhalf.. id expect him to be someone to be excited about after this season, if he stays healthy.

Heymans

DonVito wrote: »

I wouldn't really class Silvester as a winger though.

Yes I suppose with Turner joining it's unlikely they'll bring Smith straight in.

Smith would be a very good addition to the Academy. One of the only real out and out wingers from that age group. Excellent player

iminterestd0

Some Leinster Sub Academy players:

Giuseppe Coyne(LH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock)
Thomas Clarkson(TH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock) - u19
Charles Ryan(Lock/UCD/Blackrock)
Ronan Foley(Backrow/UCD/St. Marys) - u21
Ronan Watters(Backrow/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Lansdowne/Athy RFC)
Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/UCD/St. Gerards)
David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Clontarf/Belvedere)
Liam Turner(Centre-Wing/DUFC/Blackrock)
Peter Maher(Wing/Old Belvedere/Belvedere) - u21

BigJimV

very good props at U18 schools from Wesley and Terenure

iminterestd0

BigJimV wrote: »

very good props at U18 schools from Wesley and Terenure

Sam Ilo and Levi Vaughan presumably?

iminterestd0

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Some Leinster Sub Academy players:

Giuseppe Coyne(LH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock)
Thomas Clarkson(TH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock) - u19

John McKee((Hooker/OB/Campbell) - u19

Charles Ryan(Lock/UCD/Blackrock)
Cian Prendergast(Lock/UCD/Newbridge) - u19
Brian Deeny(Lock/Clontarf/Wexford) - u19

Ronan Foley(Backrow/UCD/St. Marys) - u21
Ronan Watters(Backrow/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Lansdowne/Athy RFC)

Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/UCD/St. Gerards)

David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Clontarf/Belvedere)

Liam Turner(Centre-Wing/DUFC/Blackrock)
Peter Maher(Wing/Old Belvedere/Belvedere) - u21

added more players.

Tarf1234

iminterestd0 wrote: »

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Some Leinster Sub Academy players:

Giuseppe Coyne(LH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock)
Thomas Clarkson(TH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock) - u19

John McKee((Hooker/OB/Campbell) - u19
Declan Adamson (Hooker/Clontarf/Fintans)

Charles Ryan(Lock/UCD/Blackrock)
Cian Prendergast(Lock/UCD/Newbridge) - u19
Brian Deeny(Lock/Clontarf/Wexford) - u19

Ronan Foley(Backrow/UCD/St. Marys) - u21
Ronan Watters(Backrow/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Lansdowne/Athy RFC)

Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/UCD/St. Gerards)

David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Clontarf/Belvedere)
Conor Kelly (Outhalf/Clontarf/Roscrea)

Liam Turner(Centre-Wing/DUFC/Blackrock)
Peter Maher(Wing/Old Belvedere/Belvedere) - u21

Updated/added more - Brian Deeny in Tarf and played at the weekend

iminterestd0

Tarf1234 wrote: »

Updated/added more - Brian Deeny in Tarf and played at the weekend

Sorry had heard he was in trinity. Thanks.

iminterestd0

Some Leinster Sub Academy players:

Giuseppe Coyne(LH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock)
Thomas Clarkson(TH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock) - u19
Charlie Ward(TH Prop/Clontarf/Tullow) - u19

Declan Adamson (Hooker/Clontarf/Fintans)
John McKee((Hooker/OB/Campbell) - u19

Charles Ryan(Lock/UCD/Blackrock)
Cian Prendergast(Lock/UCD/Newbridge) - u19
Brian Deeny(Lock/Clontarf/Wexford) - u19

Ronan Foley(Backrow/UCD/St. Marys) - u21
Ronan Watters(Backrow/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Lansdowne/Athy RFC)
Mark Fleming(Backrow/UCD/Glenstal)

Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/UCD/St. Gerards)

David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Clontarf/Belvedere)
Conor Kelly (Outhalf/Clontarf/Roscrea)

David Ryan(Centre/UCD/St. Michaels)
Liam Turner(Centre-Wing/DUFC/Blackrock)
Peter Maher(Wing/Old Belvedere/Belvedere) - u21

iminterestd0

Top 5 non-academy wing prospects in leinster rugby?

1. Liam Turner
2. Tom Maher
3. Andrew Smith
4. Matt Grogan
5. Mark O'Brien

DonVito

Surprised we haven't seen or heard anything more of the 'Rock wingers - McMahon and Donnelly. Also, I was expecting a lot from John Maher.

iminterestd0

DonVito wrote: »

Surprised we haven't seen or heard anything more of the 'Rock wingers - McMahon and Donnelly. Also, I was expecting a lot from John Maher.

Maher limited by his size.

Rock wingers too one dimensional.

iminterestd0

Is centre the weakest area in Leinster underage rugby?

Heymans

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Is centre the weakest area in Leinster underage rugby?

What do you make of the O'Briens coming through. Any of them have real potential to be centre for Leinster? Also thought Mullin was a bit on the small side to be considered as a prospect going forward. Then you have Ryan and Turner - Turner very small and Ryan not being athletic enough although he could make into one of those rangy tall centres that have done so well in the late '90's and early 2000's. All in all I'm not convinced we have any potential superstar internationals coming through in that area although I have been known to get it wrong.

Other areas of weakness or at least limited depth are hooker and flyhalf. I'm not convinced by whats coming through at flyhalf but I suppose you have to give players room to develop and they can become great players with the right management. For me great flyhalves can run and also get involved defensively in turning over ruck ball - Hawkshaw looks the best prospect we have coming through in this regard.

iminterestd0

I don't see either Jimmy or Conor O'Brien as future stars at centre, but could develop into good squad players.

Tommy O'Brien has star potential but i'm not sure at what position.

Outside the academy Karl Martin looks the best prospect but he is only under-17.

Turner's future is on the wing, while Ryan doesn't do any one thing outstandingly despite his size.

iminterestd0

On outhalf, they have plenty of talent coming through, obviously replacing Sexton will be near impossible but they are producing talented 10's

Ross Byrne(23)
Ciaran Frawley(20)
Harry Byrne(19)
David Hawkshaw(U20)

Hooker on the otherhand is weak below Kelleher, they've brought in McKee from Ulster so I'm guessing they are hoping he could be the next player into academy, Barron in schools otherwise but he is several years away. But he could be a candidate to join the academy straight from school.

Heymans

iminterestd0 wrote: »

On outhalf, they have plenty of talent coming through, obviously replacing Sexton will be near impossible but they are producing talented 10's

Ross Byrne(23)
Ciaran Frawley(20)
Harry Byrne(19)
David Hawkshaw(U20)

Hooker on the otherhand is weak below Kelleher, they've brought in McKee from Ulster so I'm guessing they are hoping he could be the next player into academy, Barron in schools otherwise but he is several years away. But he could be a candidate to join the academy straight from school.

Whats Barrons and Kellehers throwing like?

Ayewserious

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Some Leinster Sub Academy players:

Giuseppe Coyne(LH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock)
Thomas Clarkson(TH Prop/DUFC/Blackrock) - u19
Charlie Ward(TH Prop/Clontarf/Tullow) - u19

Declan Adamson (Hooker/Clontarf/Fintans)
John McKee((Hooker/OB/Campbell) - u19

Charles Ryan(Lock/UCD/Blackrock)
Cian Prendergast(Lock/UCD/Newbridge) - u19
Brian Deeny(Lock/Clontarf/Wexford) - u19

Ronan Foley(Backrow/UCD/St. Marys) - u21
Ronan Watters(Backrow/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Lansdowne/Athy RFC)
Mark Fleming(Backrow/UCD/Glenstal)

Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/UCD/St. Gerards)

David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Clontarf/Belvedere)
Conor Kelly (Outhalf/Clontarf/Roscrea)

David Ryan(Centre/UCD/St. Michaels)
Liam Turner(Centre-Wing/DUFC/Blackrock)
Peter Maher(Wing/Old Belvedere/Belvedere) - u21

Is Byron not in the sub academy?

iminterestd0

Ayewserious wrote: »

Is Byron not in the sub academy?

He was with development squad, not sure about sub-academy, you'd assume he is.

iminterestd0

It was a weak club age group for the leinster 20's, only 3 players in squad:

Daragh Bolger(Prop/Clontarf)
Declan Adamson(Hooker/Clontarf)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Athy/Lansdowne)

The u19's were very strong with club players:

Marcus Hanan(Prop/Clane)
Charlie Ward(Prop/Tullow/Clontarf)
Harry Noonan(Prop/Greystones/Old Wesley)
Mark Nicholson(Hooker/Wicklow)
Luke Thompson(Hooker/Wicklow/Lansdowne)
Brian Deeny(Lock/Wexford/Clontarf)
Shane Murphy(Scrumhalf/Skerries)
Paddy McKenzie(Outhalf/Wicklow/Old Wesley)
Mikey McGiff(Centre/Clontarf)
Luis Faria(Centre/Wanderers/DUFC)
Matthew Jungmann(Wing/Seapoint)

Heymans

iminterestd0 wrote: »

It was a weak club age group for the leinster 20's, only 3 players in squad:

Daragh Bolger(Prop/Clontarf)
Declan Adamson(Hooker/Clontarf)
Martin Moloney(Backrow/Athy/Lansdowne)

The u19's were very strong with club players:

Marcus Hanan(Prop/Clane)
Charlie Ward(Prop/Tullow/Clontarf)
Harry Noonan(Prop/Greystones/Old Wesley)
Mark Nicholson(Hooker/Wicklow)
Luke Thompson(Hooker/Wicklow/Lansdowne)
Brian Deeny(Lock/Wexford/Clontarf)
Shane Murphy(Scrumhalf/Skerries)
Paddy McKenzie(Outhalf/Wicklow/Old Wesley)
Mikey McGiff(Centre/Clontarf)
Luis Faria(Centre/Wanderers/DUFC)
Matthew Jungmann(Wing/Seapoint)

You get the feeling that there is a buffer put in place for Club players. They don't play to the same level as schools players for the first 14 years of their rugby playing life and therefore are not tried and tested under pressure. I can't help but feel they are molly coddled to "spread" the game further. Kind of like socialism. They are allowed to develop better than schools players who lose conditioning due to overplay.

iminterestd0

Anyway...

Best halfbacks; Ben Murphy and David Fitzgibbon?

The Lost Sheep

Heymans wrote: »

You get the feeling that there is a buffer put in place for Club players. They don't play to the same level as schools players for the first 14 years of their rugby playing life and therefore are not tried and tested under pressure. I can't help but feel they are molly coddled to "spread" the game further. Kind of like socialism. They are allowed to develop better than schools players who lose conditioning due to overplay.

That isnt true at all.
And where are you getting 14 years from? Majority of kids in rugby schools start their rugby in mini rugby and even first year of youths rugby in rugby clubs.
And not playing the schools cup doesnt at all mean theyre not tried or tested. That is a load of nonsense to suggest that.

iminterestd0

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That isnt true at all.
And where are you getting 14 years from? Majority of kids in rugby schools start their rugby in mini rugby and even first year of youths rugby in rugby clubs.
And not playing the schools cup doesnt at all mean theyre not tried or tested. That is a load of nonsense to suggest that.

He is a troll, why bother?

Heymans

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

That isnt true at all.
And where are you getting 14 years from? Majority of kids in rugby schools start their rugby in mini rugby and even first year of youths rugby in rugby clubs.
And not playing the schools cup doesnt at all mean theyre not tried or tested. That is a load of nonsense to suggest that.

Of course it's not nonsense. It is in fact very true to say that. Point to me a club competition that equals the Leinster senior or Junior Cups. There is so much prestige associated with the Cups that schools literally do everything in their power to win it. That involves much larger populations than are associated at one man and his dog clubs.

The level to which schools players are coached is close to professional - you don't see that with clubs and you can't see it with clubs who only coach in the evening times. For those who start their minis in clubs there is a gaping hole in the gap between lining out for your club on the weekend to training day in and day out with your school to fight for representing them in the Cup.

All in all there is a wide chasm between the two and the club players are molly coddled by the big wigs in Leinster Rugby to make themselves feel they are reaching outside the main catchment areas and are doing more for the game. It's nonsense and players should be picked on meritocracy.

The Lost Sheep

Heymans wrote: »

Of course it's not nonsense. It is in fact very true to say that. Point to me a club competition that equals the Leinster senior or Junior Cups. There is so much prestige associated with the Cups that schools literally do everything in their power to win it. That involves much larger populations than are associated at one man and his dog clubs.

The level to which schools players are coached is close to professional - you don't see that with clubs and you can't see it with clubs who only coach in the evening times. For those who start their minis in clubs there is a gaping hole in the gap between lining out for your club on the weekend to training day in and day out with your school to fight for representing them in the Cup.

All in all there is a wide chasm between the two and the club players are molly coddled by the big wigs in Leinster Rugby to make themselves feel they are reaching outside the main catchment areas and are doing more for the game. It's nonsense and players should be picked on meritocracy.

You said there is a buffer. There isnt.
You said kids from youths rugby arent playing to same standard for first 14 years that is completely untrue. Overwhelming majority of kids start playing rugby in rugby clubs playing mini rugby there
We are seeing more and more progress from youths rugby and the top players between their clubs and leinster squads are getting as much/as good training as the schools..
And players are certainly picked on a meritocratic basis.

Heymans

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You said there is a buffer. There isnt.
You said kids from youths rugby arent playing to same standard for first 14 years that is completely untrue. Overwhelming majority of kids start playing rugby in rugby clubs playing mini rugby there
We are seeing more and more progress from youths rugby and the top players between their clubs and leinster squads are getting as much/as good training as the schools..
And players are certainly picked on a meritocratic basis.

Rubbish. Clubs are far behind schools in coaching standards. Certainly the consistency a schools players gets coaching is far more frequent than club players. And then there's all the analysis that goes along with schools rugby - this doesn't happen at club level. On top of that there is the S & C that goes on in schools that deosn't happen in clubs. There is no comaparrisson of the workload a schools player does versus club.

The Lost Sheep

Heymans wrote: »

Rubbish. Clubs are far behind schools in coaching standards. Certainly the consistency a schools players gets coaching is far more frequent than club players. And then there's all the analysis that goes along with schools rugby - this doesn't happen at club level. On top of that there is the S & C that goes on in schools that deosn't happen in clubs. There is no comaparrisson of the workload a schools player does versus club.

In many clubs kids between their club, their school and the top players in regional/provincial squads are getting as much training as any schools player and if theyve turned 18 while still in secondary school and in a stronger club they can play adult rugby well above school standards.

Heymans

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

In many clubs kids between their club, their school and the top players in regional/provincial squads are getting as much training as any schools player and if theyve turned 18 while still in secondary school and in a stronger club they can play adult rugby well above school standards.

If that's case how do you explain the Michael's SCT hockeying the Belvo U20's last season 56 -0. I doubt the standard at AIL level is as good as schools. Certainly there's not the commitment there from players as there would be in school training every day. Going on to play adult rugby is a hobby - playing schools is a vocation.

iminterestd0

Heymans wrote: »

If that's case how do you explain the Michael's SCT hockeying the Belvo U20's last season 56 -0. I doubt the standard at AIL level is as good as schools. Certainly there's not the commitment there from players as there would be in school training every day. Going on to play adult rugby is a hobby - playing schools is a vocation.

Michaels SCT side had several future pros, Belvo 20s had none.

Tarf1234

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Heymans wrote: »

If that's case how do you explain the Michael's SCT hockeying the Belvo U20's last season 56 -0. I doubt the standard at AIL level is as good as schools. Certainly there's not the commitment there from players as there would be in school training every day. Going on to play adult rugby is a hobby - playing schools is a vocation.

Michaels SCT side had several future pros, Belvo 20s had none.

Belvo were prem 2 also... silly argument/idiot to get involved with but so be it. 20s are not going to take a friendly anywhere near as seriously as a schools team.