The Academies

Quin_Dub

Heymans wrote: »

If that's case how do you explain the Michael's SCT hockeying the Belvo U20's last season 56 -0. I doubt the standard at AIL level is as good as schools. Certainly there's not the commitment there from players as there would be in school training every day. Going on to play adult rugby is a hobby - playing schools is a vocation.

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Michaels SCT side had several future pros, Belvo 20s had none.

I'd also be fairly confident that the overwhelming majority of that Belvo U20's were "schools" players..which sort of defeats the point being made

If there were more than 1 or 2 "Club only" players on that Belvo side I'd be shocked..

shaungil

You could argue that club players that get to that level are almost a better bet because they haven't had the semi professional environment for 6 years and so their potential ability to improve is far higher as they enter the professional environment.

iminterestd0

Heymans wrote: »

Whats Barrons and Kellehers throwing like?

Good enough, but room for improvement like most at their age.

Heymans

shaungil wrote: »

You could argue that club players that get to that level are almost a better bet because they haven't had the semi professional environment for 6 years and so their potential ability to improve is far higher as they enter the professional environment.

The problem is they don't get to that level. They are noticeably below their peers from schools background. At least that's what the results say when the youths take on the schools teams.

Quin_Dub

Heymans wrote: »

The problem is they don't get to that level. They are noticeably below their peers from schools background. At least that's what the results say when the youths take on the schools teams.

Holistically , perhaps..

But when you talk about players that make it past U17/U18 Provincial squads and are making academies/sub academies etc. there is no difference.

It's "training mileage" for the want of a better term that's the difference..

You are correct , Schools players have more training hours on board than a club player of the same age - I'd strongly dispute that's it's "better" coaching , but it's definitely a lot more..

That's why the provinces bring Club players into the Cadet programs a year earlier than Schools players - to bridge that training hours delta..

But for those who make the cut for the academies 3/4 years later they are no different in skill level and development regardless of where they come from.

iminterestd0

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Holistically , perhaps..

But when you talk about players that make it past U17/U18 Provincial squads and are making academies/sub academies etc. there is no difference.

It's "training mileage" for the want of a better term that's the difference..

You are correct , Schools players have more training hours on board than a club player of the same age - I'd strongly dispute that's it's "better" coaching , but it's definitely a lot more..

That's why the provinces bring Club players into the Cadet programs a year earlier than Schools players - to bridge that training hours delta..

But for those who make the cut for the academies 3/4 years later they are no different in skill level and development regardless of where they come from.

there may be a difference in skill level, but that can very player to player as is the case with any player comparison.

Still not sure why people are engaging with this clear troll.

jmn51927

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Anyway...

Best halfbacks; Ben Murphy and David Fitzgibbon?

Question marks over Murphy’s defensive ability and game control. Adam McEvoy (St. Marys) started think all but 1 of the 19s interpros and was a solid force throughout. Has a great control element to his game.

iminterestd0

jmn51927 wrote: »

Question marks over Murphy’s defensive ability and game control. Adam McEvoy (St. Marys) started think all but 1 of the 19s interpros and was a solid force throughout. Has a great control element to his game.

certainly an argument could be made for McEvoy.

Purist98

Will there be a schools thread?

The Lost Sheep

Purist98 wrote: »

Will there be a schools thread?

Been asked a few times. No. Causes too much hassle

iminterestd0

Potential Leinster U21 team

1. Michael Milne(U20/Roscrea/UCD)
2. Ronan Kelleher(U21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
3. Jack Aungier(U21/Suttonians RFC/Terenure)
4. Ryan Baird(U20/St. Michaels/DUFC)
5. Jack Dunne(U21/St. Michaels/DUFC)
6. Ronan Watter(U20/St. Marys/St. Marys)
7. Scott Penny(U20/St. Michaels/UCD)
8. Caelan Doris(U20/Blackrock/St. Marys)
9. Hugh O'Sullivan(U21/Belvedere/Clontarf)
10. Harry Byrne(U20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
11. Aaron O'Sullivan(U20/Exile/Lansdowne)
12. David Hawkshaw(U20/Belvedere/Clontarf)
13. Tommy O'Brien(U21/Blackrock/UCD)
14. Liam Turner(U20/Blackrock/DUFC)
15. Michael Silvester(U21/Clongowes/DUFC)

Potential Leinster U19 team

1. Sam Ilo(U18/Wesley)
2. Lee Barron(U18/St. Michaels)
3. Thomas Clarkson(U19/Blackrock/DUFC)
4. Alex Soroka(U18/Belvedere)
5. Brian Deeney(U19/Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
6. Anthony Ryan(U19/Clongowes/DUFC)
7. Will Hickey(U18/St. Michaels)
8. Ed Brennan(U19/Blackrock)
9. Ben Murphy(U18/Pres Bray)
10. Paddy McKenzie(U19/Wicklow/Old Wesley)
11. Tom Maher(U19/Blackrock/UCD)
12. Karl Martin(U17/Boyne RFC)
13. Chris Cosgrave(U18/St. Michaels)
14. Andrew Smith(U19/St. Michaels)
15. Sam Dardis(U19/Terenure/Terenure)

iminterestd0

Leinster Schools League

SCT Results:
Castleknock College 60 V 0 St Andrews College
Newbridge College 24 V 13 Cistercian College Roscrea
Presentation College Bray 50 V 15 The Kings Hospital
Kilkenny College 36 V 14 CBC Monkstown
Wesley College 24 V 21 St Gerards School

JCT results:
Castleknock College 31 V 17 Temple Carrig
Cistercian College Roscrea 5 V 10 Newbridge College
The Kings Hospital 0 V 66 Presentation College Bray
CBC Monkstown 17 V 15 Kilkenny College
Gonzaga College 62 V 5 CUS
St Gerards School 7 V 12 Wesley College

Imhof Tank

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Been asked a few times. No. Causes too much hassle

Well now, is that your opinion, or has it been decreed by a mod?

Its the trolls and regulars engaging with them that leads to the trouble year on year, not the subject matter of schools rugby per se. The junior and senior leagues are up and running this week with round 1 scores on the leinster website. I'd like to keep up to date on who is going well etc as the cups approach, and there are certain posters on here who seem to know literally everything that moves not just on the schools scene but on all the age grades including youths, stuff you would never pick up anywhere else that I'm aware of. Would a restricted thread with access requests be a possibility?

The Lost Sheep

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Well now, is that your opinion, or has it been decreed by a mod?

Its the trolls and regulars engaging with them that leads to the trouble year on year, not the subject matter of schools rugby per se. The junior and senior leagues are up and running this week with round 1 scores on the leinster website. I'd like to keep up to date on who is going well etc as the cups approach, and there are certain posters on here who seem to know literally everything that moves not just on the schools scene but on all the age grades including youths, stuff you would never pick up anywhere else that I'm aware of. Would a restricted thread with access requests be a possibility?

Mods
You can keep up with the competitions through other places.
And thread with access requests isnt possibility afaik

FrannoFan

Anyone know how French went for munster A? Exciting prospect

Dbrookerugby

Best returning team for lssc
1.jack Boyle(micheals)
2.Lee Barron(micheals)
3.Conor Cagney(Belvo)
4.Sean O Brien(rock)
5.Alex Soroka(Belvo)
6.Will Hickey(micheals)
7. Tom Coghlan(Clongowes)
8. Ed Brennan(rock)
9. Adam mcevoy(Marys)
10. David fitzgibon(rock)
12.mick o gara(pres bray)
13.Matt Grogan(belvo)
14.Andrew Smyth(Micheals)
15. Mark O Brien(Micheals)
16.?
17.Cian Duffy(rock)
18.Hugo O Malley(rock)
19.Jack cooke(nure)
20. Aaron Coleman(Belvo)
21.Ben murphy(pres bray)
22. Justin leanord(belvo)
23.Chris Cosgrave(micheals)

Michaels favourites followed by Rock, Belvo and Clongowes(in no order)

Dbrookerugby

Dbrookerugby wrote: »

Best returning team for lssc
1.jack Boyle(micheals)
2.Lee Barron(micheals)
3.Conor Cagney(Belvo)
4.Sean O Brien(rock)
5.Alex Soroka(Belvo)
6.Will Hickey(micheals)
7. Tom Coghlan(Clongowes)
8. Ed Brennan(rock)
9. Adam mcevoy(Marys)
10. David fitzgibon(rock)
12.mick o gara(pres bray)
13.Matt Grogan(belvo)
14.Andrew Smyth(Micheals)
15. Mark O Brien(Micheals)
16.?
17.Cian Duffy(rock)
18.Hugo O Malley(rock)
19.Jack cooke(nure)
20. Aaron Coleman(Belvo)
21.Ben murphy(pres bray)
22. Justin leanord(belvo)
23.Chris Cosgrave(micheals)

Michaels favourites followed by Rock, Belvo and Clongowes(in no order)

16. Levi Vaughn(nure)

Thermoman12

Dbrookerugby wrote: »

Best returning team for lssc
1.jack Boyle(micheals)
2.Lee Barron(micheals)
3.Conor Cagney(Belvo)
4.Sean O Brien(rock)
5.Alex Soroka(Belvo)
6.Will Hickey(micheals)
7. Tom Coghlan(Clongowes)
8. Ed Brennan(rock)
9. Adam mcevoy(Marys)
10. David fitzgibon(rock)
12.mick o gara(pres bray)
13.Matt Grogan(belvo)
14.Andrew Smyth(Micheals)
15. Mark O Brien(Micheals)
16.?
17.Cian Duffy(rock)
18.Hugo O Malley(rock)
19.Jack cooke(nure)
20. Aaron Coleman(Belvo)
21.Ben murphy(pres bray)
22. Justin leanord(belvo)
23.Chris Cosgrave(micheals)

Michaels favourites followed by Rock, Belvo and Clongowes(in no order)

When are michaels not favourites? Last year was the “dream team” that had two players go into the academy straight from school, every year they produce quality players but can’t seem to win a cup

connemara man

Schools rugby will not be talked about in the academies thread. There are no immediate plans to reopen one

Purist98

connemara man wrote: »

Schools rugby will not be talked about in the academies thread. There are no immediate plans to reopen one

Surely just open a schools thread

iminterestd0

FrannoFan wrote: »

Anyone know how French went for munster A? Exciting prospect

has been very good by all accounts in his appearances.

highly skilled with good awareness.

iminterestd0

David Hawkshaw is a full leinster academy player now. No longer part of sub-academy group.

BlueAndWh1te

Where did you hear that?

Heymans

iminterestd0 wrote: »

Leinster Schools League

SCT Results:
Castleknock College 60 V 0 St Andrews College
Newbridge College 24 V 13 Cistercian College Roscrea
Presentation College Bray 50 V 15 The Kings Hospital
Kilkenny College 36 V 14 CBC Monkstown
Wesley College 24 V 21 St Gerards School

JCT results:
Castleknock College 31 V 17 Temple Carrig
Cistercian College Roscrea 5 V 10 Newbridge College
The Kings Hospital 0 V 66 Presentation College Bray
CBC Monkstown 17 V 15 Kilkenny College
Gonzaga College 62 V 5 CUS
St Gerards School 7 V 12 Wesley College

Any results from this weekend?

jmn51927

Heymans wrote: »

Any results from this weekend?

Terenure 26 V 21 Blackrock
Marys 31 V 10 Pres Cork

BlueAndWh1te

So was the Hawkshaw becoming a full academy player true?

Thermoman12

BlueAndWh1te wrote: »

So was the Hawkshaw becoming a full academy player true?

Yes, him and Dan Sheehan

Thermoman12

BlueAndWh1te wrote: »

So was the Hawkshaw becoming a full academy player true?

Yes, him and Dan Sheehan

BlueAndWh1te

Is there a source for that?

Thermoman12

BlueAndWh1te wrote: »

Is there a source for that?

No unfortunately not, don’t know why Leinster don’t publicly announce it when they bring new players into the academy, maybe they’ll upload on their website later on in the season

sellit90000

Leinster players in Ireland camp over Halloween - excluding 19's and 7's

Jack Boyle(St Michaels/Prop)
Sam Illo(Wesley/Prop)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Prop-Hooker)
Lee Barron(St Michaels/Hooker)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/Lock)
Jonathan Fish(St. Michaels/Lock)
Will Hickey(St Michaels/Backrow)
Aaron Coleman(Bevledere/Backrow)
Jack Guinane(St. Michaels/Backrow)
Jack Barry(Gonzaga/Backrow)
Mark Boyle(Gorey/Backrow)
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Scrumhalf)
Simon O'Kelly(St Michaels/Centre)
Chris Cosgrave(St Michaels/Centre)
Karl Martin(Boyne/Centre)
Josh Pyper(Pres Bray/Wing)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford/Wing)
Jamie Osborne(Naas/Fullback)

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

Leinster players in Ireland camp over Halloween - excluding 19's and 7's

Jack Boyle(St Michaels/Prop)
Sam Illo(Wesley/Prop)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Prop-Hooker)
Lee Barron(St Michaels/Hooker)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/Lock)
Jonathan Fish(St. Michaels/Lock)
Will Hickey(St Michaels/Backrow)
Aaron Coleman(Bevledere/Backrow)
Jack Guinane(St. Michaels/Backrow)
Jack Barry(Gonzaga/Backrow)
Mark Boyle(Gorey/Backrow)
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Scrumhalf)
Simon O'Kelly(St Michaels/Centre)
Chris Cosgrave(St Michaels/Centre)
Karl Martin(Boyne/Centre)
Josh Pyper(Pres Bray/Wing)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford/Wing)
Jamie Osborne(Naas/Fullback)

The amount of Michales players there is ridiculous

stephen_n

sellit90000 wrote: »

Leinster players in Ireland camp over Halloween - excluding 19's and 7's

Jack Boyle(St Michaels/Prop)
Sam Illo(Wesley/Prop)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Prop-Hooker)
Lee Barron(St Michaels/Hooker)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/Lock)
Jonathan Fish(St. Michaels/Lock)
Will Hickey(St Michaels/Backrow)
Aaron Coleman(Bevledere/Backrow)
Jack Guinane(St. Michaels/Backrow)
Jack Barry(Gonzaga/Backrow)
Mark Boyle(Gorey/Backrow)
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Scrumhalf)
Simon O'Kelly(St Michaels/Centre)
Chris Cosgrave(St Michaels/Centre)
Karl Martin(Boyne/Centre)
Josh Pyper(Pres Bray/Wing)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford/Wing)
Jamie Osborne(Naas/Fullback)

2 Pres players, first time in a long time for that. Is that Richie Murphy’s son at 9?

BlueAndWh1te

I'm more surprised at the lack of Blackrock players and 2 whole Pres Bray lads.

sellit90000

stephen_n wrote: »

2 Pres players, first time in a long time for that. Is that Richie Murphy’s son at 9?

yeah, 2nd year involved with ireland schools.

sellit90000

BlueAndWh1te wrote: »

I'm more surprised at the lack of Blackrock players and 2 whole Pres Bray lads.

Rock's top talent in 6th year are all u19 and their 5th years aren't very strong at the moment.

Granny15

sellit90000 wrote: »

Leinster players in Ireland camp over Halloween - excluding 19's and 7's

Jack Boyle(St Michaels/Prop)
Sam Illo(Wesley/Prop)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Prop-Hooker)
Lee Barron(St Michaels/Hooker)
Alex Soroka(Belvedere/Lock)
Jonathan Fish(St. Michaels/Lock)
Will Hickey(St Michaels/Backrow)
Aaron Coleman(Bevledere/Backrow)
Jack Guinane(St. Michaels/Backrow)
Jack Barry(Gonzaga/Backrow)
Mark Boyle(Gorey/Backrow)
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Scrumhalf)
Simon O'Kelly(St Michaels/Centre)
Chris Cosgrave(St Michaels/Centre)
Karl Martin(Boyne/Centre)
Josh Pyper(Pres Bray/Wing)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford/Wing)
Jamie Osborne(Naas/Fullback)

No sign of 2 Michael's wingers Smith and O Brien from last season? Or have they finished school?

sellit90000

Granny15 wrote: »

No sign of 2 Michael's wingers Smith and O Brien from last season? Or have they finished school?

they are under-19.

The Lost Sheep

IRFU have arranged games for each of the provinces development teams against one of the new US Major League Rugby teams, New England Free Jacks. Each of the provinces will visit the US in March/April
Connacht will play the Free Jacks on March 16th and then Connacht play Ulster on March 20th and Ulster then play Free Jacks March 24th
Munster play Free Jacks April 6th and Leinster on April 10th before Leinster play Free Jacks on April 14th

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

IRFU have arranged games for each of the provinces development teams against one of the new US Major League Rugby teams, New England Free Jacks. Each of the provinces will visit the US in March/April
Connacht will play the Free Jacks on March 16th and then Connacht play Ulster on March 20th and Ulster then play Free Jacks March 24th
Munster play Free Jacks April 6th and Leinster on April 10th before Leinster play Free Jacks on April 14th

Going to be messy with players missing AIL games

The Lost Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

Going to be messy with players missing AIL games

Depends what type players go. It's final 2 rounds of AIL when Munster and Leinster are playing so some contracted players mightnt be eligible for AIL at that stage so could be involved while its the 3rd/4th last rounds when Connacht and Ulster are gone

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Depends what type players go. It's final 2 rounds of AIL when Munster and Leinster are playing so some contracted players mightnt be eligible for AIL at that stage so could be involved while its the 3rd/4th last rounds when Connacht and Ulster are gone

It's the last two regular season games so nobody will be ineligible

The Lost Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

It's the last two regular season games so nobody will be ineligible

Competition regs state:
"To be eligible for a Club’s final four matches in the regular season of the League competition those selected Contracted Players shall have started and played a minimum of the first half of three All Ireland League matches in the preceding weeks."
There would certainly be quite a few ineligible....

D14Rugby

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Competition regs state:
"To be eligible for a Club’s final four matches in the regular season of the League competition those selected Contracted Players shall have started and played a minimum of the first half of three All Ireland League matches in the preceding weeks."
There would certainly be quite a few ineligible....

I was confused but still 3 half games and exceptions if you're injured, year nobody picked for A teams is going to be ineligible but I can tell you've made up your mind and won't be changing it as per usual so I'm going to leave it

The Lost Sheep

D14Rugby wrote: »

I was confused but still 3 half games and exceptions if you're injured, year nobody picked for A teams is going to be ineligible but I can tell you've made up your mind and won't be changing it as per usual so I'm going to leave it

:pac::pac::pac:.......:rolleyes:

sellit90000

Sam Dardis starting consistently for Terenure as a u19 just out of school, wonder will Leinster take another look at him next year.

Stainalert

D14Rugby wrote: »

Going to be messy with players missing AIL games

Yea total lack of respect for clubs - so many other periods in the season where they could have played these games and would not have clashed with AIL.
The games against the other Irish provinces will have some meaning but the New England games will be nowhere near the intensity they need to be if A teams are anywhere near full strength. I really hope the IRFU are being paid well for this Spring Break because they are very quickly eroding any goodwill they have with clubs.

sellit90000

Liam Turner is an interesting prospect, anyone think he will make the leinster academy?

Or will concerns about his lack of height and top end athleticism mean he will get passed over? Needs to nail down a starting position for Ireland u20.

combined with there being a wing in the academy of the same age grade and several good prospects on the wing in the age grade below him.

Locke_Lamora

sellit90000 wrote: »

Liam Turner is an interesting prospect, anyone think he will make the leinster academy?

Or will concerns about his lack of height and top end athleticism mean he will get passed over? Needs to nail down a starting position for Ireland u20.

combined with there being a wing in the academy of the same age grade and several good prospects on the wing in the age grade below him.

Who are the wingers in the same grade/below him? Keenan is hardly much of an athlete but he got taken in. Turner plays 13 as well which could certainly come in handy - but French and Moore probably have that position wrapped up for the u20’s.

sellit90000

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Who are the wingers in the same grade/below him? Keenan is hardly much of an athlete but he got taken in. Turner plays 13 as well which could certainly come in handy - but French and Moore probably have that position wrapped up for the u20’s.

Keenan is a very good athlete, hence the 7's rugby, also he is much taller than Turner.

Same age grade from Leinster - Aaron O'Sullivan.

From elsewhere - Angus Kernohen, Conor Phillips, Jonathan Wren, Conor Hayes, Ikem Uguweru, Hugh Lane.

Age grade below him from Leinster - Tom Maher, Andrew Smith, Max O'Reilly, Sam Dardis.

Turner isn't a 13 at pro level IMO.

it's very rare for someone who is not 1st choice at Ireland u20 level to make the leinster academy, bar at problem positions - hooker, scrumhalf.

As I said it will be interesting to see how he gets on, if he impresses for the 20's and starts, I'd expect him to really push for an academy place.. if he struggles to hold down Ireland u20 starting position, he will struggle.