The Academies

ormond lad

lurtz wrote: »

Have you heard for sure about Dardis and Parata? Thought Connacht would be keeping hold of him. Hope to see Rory Moloney go in somewhere. Ulsters setup is usually more ambigious than the others, maybe Mikey Lagan and John Donnan to join. Havent seen Fullerton play but seen his name alot

Saw it on mf's about Parata from a reliable source. I thought Connacht would try hold on to him but he was munster youths last season and from munster.
And having watched Dardis and all the talk about him he's a cert for a spot.

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Is O Shea the lad thats the sprinter from Limerick? If so has he made his mind up about rugby over athletics?

ormond lad

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Is O Shea the lad thats the sprinter from Limerick? If so has he made his mind up about rugby over athletics?

Yeah. Was running 10.8 in the 100 last summer. 2nd quickest at his age in the country

lurtz

Jesus thats some speed. is he any use as a player?

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

ormond lad wrote: »

Yeah. Was running 10.8 in the 100 last summer. 2nd quickest at his age in the country

JEBUS! That ridiculous! With refining he could be a top sprinter for Ireland nevermind a rugby player, from what ive seen he's slight enough but as you can imagine when he gets room he's gone! Huge decision for him to make if Munter come a calling. With pace like that he could do what butler did and hold them to ransom and get a better contract

FellasFellas

Jacob Walshe has a Connacht academy place nailed on I think. Either this coming season or next season.

jamiedav2011

I assume Dooley will be in Leinster's anyway, along with Daly.

Perhaps Crosbie too.

Any other names floating about?

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny

Watching the MSSC final on Setanta and Tommy Tiernan touting Diarmiud Dee (No.6) from Crescent as a Munster Academy candidate. Thoughts? Club is he? 15 for Crescent looks a decent lad too

ormond lad

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Watching the MSSC final on Setanta and Tommy Tiernan touting Diarmiud Dee (No.6) from Crescent as a Munster Academy candidate. Thoughts? Club is he? 15 for Crescent looks a decent lad too

When Dee played club rugby up to 17s he played with Old Crescent. Good player. His defence today was very very good.
Personally thought 10, 11 and 13 were best for Crescent in the backs along with Dee and Dineen in the pack
Best for Rockwell were Parata and Riley but they couldnt do much against Crescent.

FellasFellas

Gallagher from Methody with a bit of work done to his game looks like he could be a great player for the Red Hand.

awec

FellasFellas wrote: »

Gallagher from Methody with a bit of work done to his game looks like he could be a great player for the Red Hand.

Looks like a lot of raw talent, just needs it to be refined a bit.

Was very surprised to hear of his GAA background.

shuffol

FellasFellas wrote: »

Gallagher from Methody with a bit of work done to his game looks like he could be a great player for the Red Hand.

He was very impressive but came across as a bit selfish too, kicked a penalty for touch in the first half, took a conversion in the 2nd half and even dropped into the pocket for a drop goal in the last minute. Executed them all in a manner that suggested he wouldnt be a regular kicker.

awec

shuffol wrote: »

He was very impressive but came across as a bit selfish too, kicked a penalty for touch in the first half, took a conversion in the 2nd half and even dropped into the pocket for a drop goal in the last minute. Executed them all in a manner that suggested he wouldnt be a regular kicker.

He's a number 8 though is he not, can be forgiven for being a poor kicker.

The DG attempt was woeful, I don't think it went more than 3 feet above the ground.

Had the balls to try though!

clubrug

ormond lad wrote: »

Saw it on mf's about Parata from a reliable source. I thought Connacht would try hold on to him but he was munster youths last season and from munster.

Saw Rory Parata at youths level and was impressed by him, also seen him play with connacht last year and he had improved. In all honesty though I don't believe the kid is at academy level, sorry but I feel there would be many more to the fore there.

Could not believe the physical change in this kid when I saw him with Connacht, some difference in a year, serious, anyone else notice that?

shuffol

awec wrote: »

He's a number 8 though is he not, can be forgiven for being a poor kicker.

The DG attempt was woeful, I don't think it went more than 3 feet above the ground.

Had the balls to try though!

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but he looked to me like a young man trying to make a name for himself in front of the TV cameras at the expense of his side. His pace, aggression and passing was excellent though albeit as part of a massively dominant pack.

backgreen

Not Playing Tiddlywinks Vinny wrote: »

Watching the MSSC final on Setanta and Tommy Tiernan touting Diarmiud Dee (No.6) from Crescent as a Munster Academy candidate. Thoughts? Club is he? 15 for Crescent looks a decent lad too

dee his old man was a cookie,o shea and dineen Shannon players

awec

shuffol wrote: »

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but he looked to me like a young man trying to make a name for himself in front of the TV cameras at the expense of his side. His pace, aggression and passing was excellent though albeit as part of a massively dominant pack.

Fair point that.

The Methody pack was huge, can't remember any other names of standout players though. Their LH (and captain) committed more fouls than I could count in the second half.

shuffol

The Methody no.5 looked a very impressive athlete and footballer, had 2 excellent grubber kicks one of which led to the final Methody try.

P.Walnuts

What about that giant TH prop from Monkstown (name escapes me) has he any shot of making it at pro level?

FellasFellas

P.Walnuts wrote: »

What about that giant TH prop from Monkstown (name escapes me) has he any shot of making it at pro level?

Eoghan McKeever. He's a good player, could get a look in due to size and and being a TH. Dan O'Byrne is finished in the Sub-Academy system so spot for him there.

CGD

Nearly every player that plays Leinster 19's and 20's ends up in the so called sub academy just a fancy name and a way for Leinster and other province to develop a wait and see attitude to young players that costs little or no money but keeps young guys interested for a while. McKeever will be left to see how he develops and if he does improve he may get academy later much like the likes of Daly this season and also helps weed out the so called good players like o'Byrne who don't really hack it out of the school environment

lurtz

clubrug wrote: »

ormond lad wrote: »

Saw it on mf's about Parata from a reliable source. I thought Connacht would try hold on to him but he was munster youths last season and from munster.

Saw Rory Parata at youths level and was impressed by him, also seen him play with connacht last year and he had improved. In all honesty though I don't believe the kid is at academy level, sorry but I feel there would be many more to the fore there.

Could not believe the physical change in this kid when I saw him with Connacht, some difference in a year, serious, anyone else notice that?

theres a huge emphasis on conditioning down there in connacht,they do multiple sessions a week

CGD wrote: »

Nearly every player that plays Leinster 19's and 20's ends up in the so called sub academy just a fancy name and a way for Leinster and other province to develop a wait and see attitude to young players that costs little or no money but keeps young guys interested for a while. McKeever will be left to see how he develops and if he does improve he may get academy later much like the likes of Daly this season and also helps weed out the so called good players like o'Byrne who don't really hack it out of the school environment

a sweeping and largely untrue statement

CGD

Not untrue at all! That is exactly what happens and it will be borne out next September as it was lat September

lurtz

CGD wrote: »

Not untrue at all! That is exactly what happens and it will be borne out next September as it was lat September

do you know who was in the sub academy this year? the sub academy is generally compsed of leinster players in the irish 20s squad,with one or two other projects,say a tighthead prop. This year is slightly different with irish u19 players being included

FellasFellas

CGD wrote: »

Not untrue at all! That is exactly what happens and it will be borne out next September as it was lat September

Very untrue sir. I played Leinster 19's and a load of lads that I played with aren't in the sub academy or anywhere near it.

Aiden7

How big is this Eoghan McKeever lad? What position does O'Byrne play and what sort of size his he? Saw the Methodist match on tv earlier, the Methodist pack were big, the no 8 Gallagher looks a useful player, big(looks like 16st), strong, powerful with some good handling skills, the Methodist Second rows looked tall and athletic both need to put a couple stone bulk on each tho

FellasFellas

Aiden7 wrote: »

How big is this Eoghan McKeever lad? What position does O'Byrne play and what sort of size his he? Saw the Methodist match on tv earlier, the Methodist pack were big, the no 8 Gallagher looks a useful player, big(looks like 16st), strong, powerful with some good handling skills, the Methodist Second rows looked tall and athletic both need to put a couple stone bulk on each tho

O'Byrne is a TH and is very big, a bit less bulky than McKeever. McKeever would be about 19-20 stone.

CGD

Would know quiet a lot of them and they are not exclusively irish under 20's and only a very small percentage ever get picked up on full academy contracts and even fewer go on to development contracts. It's all a numbers game no mor than 3 or 4 wil get n academy spot straight out of school and another 3 or 4 will get a spot after being out of school a year.

CIARAN_BOYLE

The sub academy has afaik various levels

sub academy is at one level a broad and sweeping term for all players that are in the set up and out of school.

At another level there are lads that Leinster are keeping a closer eye on and for them its like a preacademy.

Aiden7

FellasFellas wrote: »

O'Byrne is a TH and is very big, a bit less bulky than McKeever. McKeever would be about 19-20 stone.

Is O'Byrne likely to get a academy spot? would seem to have the size and can never have too many TH props. McKeever sounds huge! is he also likely to get a academy spot or will he have to make do with Sub-Academy for now?

ormond lad

CGD wrote: »

Nearly every player that plays Leinster 19's and 20's ends up in the so called sub academy just a fancy name and a way for Leinster and other province to develop a wait and see attitude to young players that costs little or no money but keeps young guys interested for a while. McKeever will be left to see how he develops and if he does improve he may get academy later much like the likes of Daly this season and also helps weed out the so called good players like o'Byrne who don't really hack it out of the school environment

First sentence is not true. Sub academy is not that big.
Sub academy is a wait and see for players who either are not ready for full academy or there is no room in academy so players wait in sub academy and coaches see how they cope in a pro environment

FellasFellas

Aiden7 wrote: »

Is O'Byrne likely to get a academy spot? would seem to have the size and can never have too many TH props. McKeever sounds huge! is he also likely to get a academy spot or will he have to make do with Sub-Academy for now?

His attitude is apparently pretty laissez-faire about the whole thing. He's a savage player when he puts his mind to it.

lurtz

Aiden7 wrote: »

Is O'Byrne likely to get a academy spot? would seem to have the size and can never have too many TH props. McKeever sounds huge! is he also likely to get a academy spot or will he have to make do with Sub-Academy for now?

No O'Byrne has packed it in,still plays for Belvo though. Mckeever will surely go into the sub academy and see how he fairs. He can look forward to Dave Fagan whipping him into shape

opinionatedfan

McKeever isn't an option for immediate promotion to the academy, sub-academy and see if he is involved with 20s next year.

CGD

ormond lad wrote: »

First sentence is not true. Sub academy is not that big.
Sub academy is a wait and see for players who either are not ready for full academy or there is no room in academy so players wait in sub academy and coaches see how they cope in a pro environment

Yeah a bit of poetic license there alright but it is suprising the amount especially in Leinster that have had limited enough time with 20's that are still being called in for weight sessions and screening. A lot of experimenting with back rows converting to front rows going on as well

Aiden7

Any guesses at the new intakes across the academies? I guess Dardis will be given a Leinster academy contract, and SOB II at Connacht, on a side note SOB II looks huge what sort of height and weight is he?

FellasFellas

Ross Deacon is in the process of being converted from a 6/8 to a tighthead prop. If it goes well, could be in contention for Academy place in a few years.

Quint2010

Aiden7 wrote: »

Any guesses at the new intakes across the academies? I guess Dardis will be given a Leinster academy contract, and SOB II at Connacht, on a side note SOB II looks huge what sort of height and weight is he?

Depends on how the schools team does in the U18 championships. I suspect Brewer has a chance as do Byrne and McCarthy.

lurtz

Aiden7 wrote: »

Any guesses at the new intakes across the academies? I guess Dardis will be given a Leinster academy contract, and SOB II at Connacht, on a side note SOB II looks huge what sort of height and weight is he?

He's about 6'4 and nearly 100 kilos. Wouldnt see McCarthy in the frame for a contract at all

Wexfordboy89

just wondering are there any foreign players in any of the academy's/sub academy's??i know some of the french clubs have georgians in there academy`s.

lurtz

Finlay Bealham is aussie born but iq. Ive wondered it myselfis it worth it to be bringing in lads when theyre 16/17? France are doing it alot these days cos they have so few coming through. They have scouts in nz and the pacific islands

backgreen

think there was a guy from sweden in munster with the sub/academy for a period

ormond lad

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

just wondering are there any foreign players in any of the academy's/sub academy's??i know some of the french clubs have georgians in there academy`s.

Dont think there is. Purpose of academies is to develop irish internationals and i think it is better we develop players out of what we have and only bring in others who are proven pro's

lurtz wrote: »

Finlay Bealham is aussie born but iq. Ive wondered it myselfis it worth it to be bringing in lads when theyre 16/17? France are doing it alot these days cos they have so few coming through. They have scouts in nz and the pacific islands

they have 20+ pro teams and academies. we dont so we need our academies to look to irish players

backgreen wrote: »

think there was a guy from sweden in munster with the sub/academy for a period

There very well could have been. Munster and swedish rfu have some sort of partnership or did have. Swedish u18s played munster 18s and 1/2 other underage sides in munster in early 2012

schools rugby

Quint2010 wrote: »

Depends on how the schools team does in the U18 championships. I suspect Brewer has a chance as do Byrne and McCarthy.

Any links to the squad named ?

opinionatedfan

schools rugby wrote: »

Any links to the squad named ?

hasnt been officially announced.

lurtz

ormond lad might know this,where was issac o'grady from? Played connacht 20s in 2011,remember hearing or reading he was from nz? would that be right?

Wexfordboy89

ormond lad wrote: »

Dont think there is. Purpose of academies is to develop irish internationals and i think it is better we develop players out of what we have and only bring in others who are proven pro's

true was just wondering if there was any thats all.any of the current crop of the exiles look like getting a contract with one of the provinces should one them try and bring across ryan furness looked like a good young player might have to pay compo to worcester tho.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

true was just wondering if there was any thats all.any of the current crop of the exiles look like getting a contract with one of the provinces should one them try and bring across ryan furness looked like a good young player might have to pay compo to worcester tho.

He looks good alright but to be honest I'd sit on it. Pro rugby is hard enough to get into without bringing him out of his comfort zone and into a new country.

I'd keep an eye on him and try to sign him as the finished product in a few years.

Worcester probably have a sufficiently thin squad that he would be guaranteed A action at least unlike in most of the provinces.

irishbucsfan

If we start signing up every Irish exile from England, I wonder would that make English clubs less likely to offer academy places to Irish qualified players? It might start to feel like a waste of resources to them.

RobbieRuns

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we start signing up every Irish exile from England, I wonder would that make English clubs less likely to offer academy places to Irish qualified players? It might start to feel like a waste of resources to them.

As I understand it when a young lad of Irish heritage/qualification declares himself for Ireland, the English clubs get very upset, mostly because the Academy system in the English Premiership are funded by the RFU to produce players for England (understandably) and the clubs get paid additional monies for the amount of players that go on to represent England at any level. If a player goes on to get a full international cap having gone through their academy system, that club gets substantial extra funds as a result.

The system was changed in England a few years ago along with their agreement with the Premiership clubs and how they compensate the clubs for going on international duty (they are not centrally contracted in England).

It is a big risk for players to declare for Ireland as the clubs in England will have no incentive to keep them on as they get nothing for it and they would know that if a player was good enough, thay would ultimately move to play their club rugby in their home country or team of international choice. It is not like it used to be years ago.

We hardly fill our academies with Exiles tho do we? What percentage of players in our academies would have come through the Exiles? very low number I would say. It would always appear to me that they would have to be very exceptional to get an Academy place over here as they would have to be better than we already have in place and that is hard. The other big thing would be where we have traditional problem positions (tight heads?) or if the Provincial Academy has a shortage of positions in a particular age group coming through. Connacht and Ulster do not seem to be getting many lads on current underage teams and I would say would look at Exiles, Munster less so and Leinster is bursting at the seams with players lining up for their academy.