A life without races is a life half logged

druss

Tom Joad wrote: »

Explain the burning your aerobic base bit druss!! It's a new one to me

"burning" is a highly untechnical term, probably with no validity at all.

What I'm trying to describe is the end results of racing a lot, racing too hard, over-training, under-training, over-eating (or a combination of all of the above!). Recently in training, I'm just experiencing lethargy and HRM results show that I am going much slower within a defined set of BPM parameters, when compared to a few months ago.

In that scenario, a step back and training slower and aerobically seems to be the more sensible thing to do. Continuing to push and to try to equal or better race PBs; well it wouldn't work and I'd probably end up injured. I still plan on doing the odd race, but maybe not hammer and tongsing it unless I feel that its there within me on the day.

Maybe "eroded" would be the phrase to use?

druss

Further clarification offered by my coach (Part of more detailed and specific correspondence!)

Basically, I was asking about protecting the aerobic base, whether you constantly needed to build to a target and then restart the entire process.

"The principle is to move from Generic to Specific training. The Base phase consists of longer runs, sprints and fartlek to provide the athlete with the tirelessness and basic strength necessary for the faster work that comes later.

More specific work is more stressful on the body and cannot be continued for too long without burn-out, so it is done close to the race when the athlete is better prepared."

(I note here that i've been off programme since Ballycotton back in March, so I got into the habit of repeating a lot of speed specific sessions for the fun of it all. )

Is there a way of protecting your original aerobic base?

Yes, all you need to do is maintain the basic muscular strength and mental ability to run consistently for a period of time by continuing some long runs.

Is it the case that training too hard anaerobically or racing too hard damages your earlier "slow and steady" built base?

The most stressful activity for the body seems to be what lies in the middle between very long and easy and very short and very intense. From our point of view, the biggest single issue is that sessions such as intervals are very fatiguing for the nervous system, create a lot of metabolic waste product, fatigue the adrenal glands, lower your immune system and deplete your glycogen stores.

Since most people have a lot of similar stressors in their life, continuing this type of training for an extended period tends to lead to various types of over-training and thus loss of performance. In these sessions you have to bring your body close to “fight or die” mode to be prepared for the rigours of racing. You can only do this so often, which is why regular periods of Base building allows the system to recover for another bout.

druss

Thursday 16 May - Lunchtime run

Distance: 5.71 km
Time: 31.32
Avg Pace: 5:31 min/km

Just a slow trot on grass.

Tom Joad

druss wrote: »

"burning" is a highly untechnical term, probably with no validity at all.

What I'm trying to describe is the end results of racing a lot, racing too hard, over-training, under-training, over-eating (or a combination of all of the above!). Recently in training, I'm just experiencing lethargy and HRM results show that I am going much slower within a defined set of BPM parameters, when compared to a few months ago.

In that scenario, a step back and training slower and aerobically seems to be the more sensible thing to do. Continuing to push and to try to equal or better race PBs; well it wouldn't work and I'd probably end up injured. I still plan on doing the odd race, but maybe not hammer and tongsing it unless I feel that its there within me on the day.

Maybe "eroded" would be the phrase to use?

I'm the least technical person around so you're safe with me . The reason I asked is that it's something that i never heard off but it resonated with me in that it's the way I've been feeling for the last couple of weeks. And you've hit the nail on the head - only difference is that I don't wear a HRM (will start though - I did buy one a few months ago :rolleyes:).

For what it's worth I think you are taking the right approach in stepping back a little bit and I might take a leaf out of your book - I think its a case of getting the base work done, starting to see good times in races and then trying to push too much.

Eroded is a good word for it.

As I say I've been feeling exactly what you described in the last two weeks - feeling fatigued, feeling its taking more effort to go slower/ stay the same, hard to motivate for the hard sessions..

Like you I've been off plan (or invented my own)for the last wee while with extra mileage and speed sessions. Throw 5 a side into that mix and chasing race times and its a recipe for injury and/or burn-out.

I'm glad you've recognised the signs and saved yourself a long lay off and you've also saved me from doing something similar.

That's what's great about the logs here:D:D

Oh and sorry for the essay!!

druss

Tom Joad wrote: »

Like you I've been off plan (or invented my own)for the last wee while with extra mileage and speed sessions. Throw 5 a side into that mix and chasing race times and its a recipe for injury and/or burn-out.

I'm glad you've recognised the signs and saved yourself a long lay off and you've also saved me from doing something similar.

Me recognising it is one thing, actually acting on it is another! For instance, I still want to do some racing, even if I now recognise that i shouldn't go crazy and should probably consider longer and slower events over the shorter ones I instinctively want to do.

Like you, I still want to play a few five a side games which are essentially speed sessions! I've joined a club and they are now starting to do some track bits and pieces. Again, very tempting.

I also just don't like wearing the HRM, but i'll definitely keep it on for the LSRs to try and keep me behaving for those at least.

druss

Friday 17 May - Lunchtime run

Distance: 7.33 km
Time: 35.23
Avg Pace: 4:50 min/km

I'm not sure that I approve of this sudden burst of sunshine. The first few laps were completed in around 4:30km pace. The enthusiasm for mantaining the pace drained from me fairly quickly!

Cork City FC are in town on Monday and I should probably pay homage. So I plan to run on Saturday and Sunday, taking Monday off.

blockic

druss wrote: »

Cork City FC are in town on Monday and I should probably pay homage.

Too right!!

druss

blockic wrote: »

Too right!!

I don't get to see CCFC too much from my Wexford base. Mind you, from descriptions this year, sounds like that mightn't be a bad thing.:(

Anyway, no running tonight due to more unforeseen family sickness. So weekend plan changes again. Long run tomorrow, something at lunchtime on Monday, and then out to Ferrycarrig (where I had a 5 mile race back in January) for more misery. Probably.

druss

Sunday 20 May - Long Run
Distance: 17.00 km
Time: 1:42:52
Avg Pace: 6:03 min/km


My new programme has commenced today and involves building towards a 10k in September. My parameters for today's run were;

- to do 21 k (or between 17k and 25k)
- to stay on my feet for 2 hours (or between 100 mins and 130 mins)
- to keep the pace to around 5:30 min/km (or between 5:15 and 6:02 min/km

but the over-riding factor was to keep my heart rate between 129 and 140 b/m. So I stuck on the HRM for the long run and tried to actually start this properly.

And as you can see above, I am still not doing very well. I managed to keep the HRM to a 140 average (just!) but in all other aspects, I performed to the absolute lowest possible target. Shortest distance, least time on feet, and slightly worse that the slowest possible pace.

druss

Monday 21 May - Fartlek

Distance: 11.60 km
Time: 58:36
Avg Pace: 5:03 min/km

I ran this on grass at lunchtime. I'm still feeling a bit flat, but actually my heart rate was steady enough throughout...even for the faster bits.

I obviously need to toughen up a bit. If I'd been running on my own I'd probably have gone back for lunch after 5k. I could actually have gone a bit slower and should ideally have stayed out there closer to 70 mins, but not a bad old session all the same.

druss

Tuesday 21 May - Football
Distance: 2.17 km
Time: 42:47
Avg Pace: 19:43 min/km

Nothing special about this. Plus point is that my heart rate is looking far healthier for this activity than when I last checked it. Negative, bit of a groin strain picked up.


Wednesday 22 May - Club session/ 300m reps
Distance: 6.91 km
Time: 35:51
Avg Pace: 5:11 min/km

I was a bit uneasy about doing the reps session as I was still feeling the strain from yesterday a bit. After the warm up and some stretches and strides, we did 8 x 300ms with 2 mins recovery.

The idea was to do the reps fast, but not all out. For the first few reps I worked off the coaches pace and we did 59 seconds, 1 min and 58 seconds for these. He then asked me to lead out, but to try to keep it to much the same pace. Next lap was 54 seconds, then 56 seconds and 56 seconds. So I'm crap at pacing and it was starting to hurt. My coach was able to talk doing doing this. I wasn't.:o

He reclaimed control for the last two laps. (57 and 56 seconds). I didn't see my actual times until much later, but its weird how I can't judge my times after I get tired. I knew my 54 second lap was the fastest, but I thought my times plummeted afterwards.

druss

Thursday 23 May - Recovery type thing
Distance: 7.69 km
Time: 42:00
Avg Pace: 5:28 min/km

When I was doing my unauthorised club session yesterday, I should have been doing a medium long run.

Today I didn't feel like doing that (and it is my lowest priority run of the week) so I dumped it in favour of a slowish plod around the racecourse. This means that all of my three runs this week have been on grass.

I am going to have to think about how to fit in club work, or not as the case may be. I may have to be more focused if I want to hit my race targets come September. Turning up for ad hoc games of football (and my groin strain from Tuesdays game is STILL at me!) and club track sessions may be counter-productive to this.

Against this argument is that football and track work is fun!

druss

druss wrote: »

Tuesday 21 May - Football
Nothing special about this. Plus point is that my heart rate is looking far healthier for this activity than when I last checked it. Negative, bit of a groin strain picked up.

Reason for lack of updates in the last while dates back to this. A groin strain picked up playing football, but probably not helped by the following days speed work, continued to bother me.

I was ok plodding along last Thursday, but had difficulty climbing stairs, getting up, changing direction, getting out of bed, that kind of thing.:P

So my faint ambitions of doing the 5 Mile in Enniscorthy last Sunday faded and i decided to rest up for for the weekend. So far, so sensible. Wandered around the house singing "Groin strain" ala "Rammstein" in faux german accent and was generally annoying.

Then this Tuesday i thought about going for a run, but instead went for another game of football. Stupid idea. Same injury, couldn't accelerate off my left foot, couldn't shoot with my left foot (actually, thats normal enough!) and returned to the office limping.

No club run yesterday but I have just done an 8k lunchtime run and, bar a few twinges, all seems good. I'll try for a bit longer tomorrow and see how it goes.

Thursday 30 May - Recovery type thing
Distance: 8.00 km
Time: 42:38
Avg Pace: 5:20 min/km

druss

Friday 31 May - Further Recovery type thing
Distance: 5.85 km
Time: 29:25
Avg Pace: 5:02 min/km

I didn't have time to do a speed training session, so I went out for a quick run instead. It's a tad concerning that so much of my programmed base training has been missed for one reason or another.

Monday 3 June - Circuit Run
Distance: 13.20 km
Time: 1:14:58
Avg Pace: 5:41 min/km

Supposed to be a long run, came nowhere close. Hot, hot, hot.

Tuesday 4 June - Fartlek
Distance: 11.5 km
Time: 1:02:48
Avg Pace: 5:28 min/km

Middle of the day and roasting. However, for the first time since 21 May, I've completed a run which actually meets the programme criteria. Lots of hills chucked into this to keep it interesting.

In the last two days i've basically run, in total, a half marathon in the sun. I have a lot of respect for those of you who actually were out there racing over those days. I really want to do the Cork Marathon some day, but Monday and the sunny weather was quite frightening.

druss

Wednesday 5 June - 5km + some intervals
Distance: 5.0 km
Time: 27:00
Avg Pace: 5:25 min/km

Late for club training, but I wandered out to meet the group anyway.

Intervals had already started after the group warm up so I just dropped into that. Only 5* 300m. First was 53 seconds, all the rest were 56 seconds!

There probably wasn't any useful function served by doing this, other than it got me out of the house for a bit and I got to hear how people got on in recent races.

Thursday 6 June - Sun run
Distance: 9.0 km
Time: 49:58
Avg Pace: 5:33 min/km

I was delayed leaving work again, so had to lose my plan of doing 90 mins. Roasting hot, so my heart rate was all over the place.

druss

Friday 07 June - Circuit Run
Distance: 9.72 km
Time: 51:14
Avg Pace: 5:16 min/km

I planned to a bit more than this. The idea was to do 3k slow, 3 k fast and then repeat.

However it actually was more like 2k fast, 3k slow, 3k fast, 2 k verrrry slow. I went out much too fast on my warm up and it took me a while to recompose myself. The slow laps were around 5:30 min/km pace and the fast bits around 4:30. It was a serious struggle even to get to that pace. Lunchtime running in the sun just doesn't suit me!


Sunday 09 June - Long Run
Distance: 17.33 km
Time: 1:40:38
Avg Pace: 5:48 min/km

Slightly better. It was much more comfortable to run in the evening.

druss

Monday 10 June - Mile time trial
Distance: 1 mile (or 1.609344 etc etc in "real distance!"
Time: 5:56
Avg Pace: 3:32 min/km


My club was hosting the first night of an annual charity event tonight. It's generally held over 6 consecutive summer Mondays. Each weekly event is a timed one mile run on grass track and the idea is that you get to see some improvement in your time over the weeks and raise some cash for the designated charity.

There were circa 50 participants at the first event tonight, but not all were on for racing it, so it was split into a few separate runs. I'm not that impressed with my time. I timed myself on the same track last month and did it in 6 mins, so to only make up 4 seconds in a race..meh.

I thought i went out too fast and was in the first 4 for most of the first lap which I went through in 70 seconds. I thought that was too hot for me and backed off for the next two laps (back down to circa 3:50 min/km pace) before lifting it a bit at the finish.

It wasn't that tough though, so maybe I made a mistake slowing up. I'll probably miss next week, but looking forward to having another go at this.

druss

Tuesday 11 June - Fartlek
Distance: 14.50 km
Time: 1:18:11
Avg Pace: 5:24 min/km

Still a bit stiff from my (limited!) exertions on track the night before. I'm happy enough with todays run though.

I was aiming for 5:15 average pace, but I was actually going better than that for the majority of the run. I did the last 3 k up a fairly steep hill, so that clawed me back considerably.

Tommorrow is supposed to be a medium long run, but i'll probably stall on that and go out to the club run instead. I can turn that into my speed training session which I would otherwise do on Thursday, then back to long distance again!

druss

Thursday 13 June - Speed Training
Distance: 12.30 km
Time: 67:57
Avg Pace: 5:31 min/km

In the middle of some fairly sedate warm up/warm down;

9 x 100m strides
4 x 30 m sprints

I still can't remember how to set up my Garmin properly in the middle of a run. Afterwards it is entirely self evident.


Sunday 16 June - Long run
Distance: 21.03 km
Time: 1:57:22
Avg Pace: 5:35 min/km

Long run + lashing rain - body glide = mild discomfort. I have to go to Dublin tomorrow, but might give the mile another lash tomorrow if I get back in time.

druss

druss wrote: »

I have to go to Dublin tomorrow, but might give the mile another lash tomorrow if I get back in time.

Well I didn't get back on time for the mile race. Not anybodys fault really, and I was after consuming so much coffee over the day that I was feeling a bit queasy anyway. This didn't stop me sulking for the evening though.


Tuesday 18 June - Fartlek
Distance: 14.40 km
Time: 1:17:46
Avg Pace: 5:24 min/km

This is pretty much exactly the same time as this session last week. Today felt a bit tougher.

For a variety of reasons, I am considering doing the Dublin Marathon this year. Despite previously telling people that I do want to do a marathon, but not in the short term.

So far this consideration just means having a nose at the novice 2013 thread etc, but its tempting.

Gavlor

DO IT!

Dilbert75

Gavlor wrote: »

DO IT!

KNEW I recognised you from somewhere

druss

Reasons not to do Dublin City Marathon this year
-I've always wanted to "do" Cork first
-I prefer shorter stuff so far. 5km > Half Marathon!
-I thought i would get a few years running done before doing a marathon, so that I can give it a real good effort first time out.

Reasons to do Dublin City Marathon this year
-JUST DO IT!
-Expanding family. Might be a another few years before I can easily say "i'm going for a really really long run. Don't wait up". So maybe I might as well put down a marker now.
-Dublin falls before family expansion. Cork doesn't.

Oh well. I have some time to consider my options, given that i'm training away as it is.

druss

Wednesday 19 June - Medium Long Run
Distance: 15.50 km
Time: 1:24:53
Avg Pace: 5:29 min/km

Another lovely sunny day. I ran the first 7k of this on my own (and really slowly!) I picked up the pace a bit on the return when I had some company.

I did feel really thirsty as well, which might have been a subconsious reason for speeding up.

druss

Friday 21 June - Speed Training
The same as last week, but I seem to have mislaid some distance on my warmup.

8 x 100m strides
(mostly 16 seconds, one of them was 17, one was 15)


4 x 50 m sprints (no times)

druss

Monday 24 June - Mile time trial
Distance: 1 mile
Time: 5:49
Avg Pace: 3:28 min/km

After a weeks gap I had another go at the mile. There were slightly less people at it this evening.

I paced it slightly better, but I still eased off a bit in laps two and three so hopefully i can still make some short-term gains by being a bit more aggressive. As opposed to just training and stuff!

After the race, and after I had done a bit of a warm down, four people lined up for a 100m race. I dropped in to make it five and did 14 seconds something.

guinang

Lots of interesting sessions Druss. If I could stick to a schedule, I'd love to join a club and follow different sessions.

Expanding family definitely has some demands but it doesn't last forever so I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunity to do the marathon. But I'm with Gavlor - DO IT

druss

guinang wrote: »

Lots of interesting sessions Druss. If I could stick to a schedule, I'd love to join a club and follow different sessions.

Expanding family definitely has some demands but it doesn't last forever so I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunity to do the marathon. But I'm with Gavlor - DO IT

I'm working away at at a schedule aimed at improving my 10k time in the mid to long term. I also go to the occasional club runs. To be honest, the two can occasionally conflict with each other if I don't think it through. For instance my club is doing a bit more short distance/speed stuff at the moment (by general request, I hasten to add). If the goal is a marathon, half marathon or even improving at 10k, you'd have to consider how this fits in with the main goal.

That's my club though, and I like the variety. Probably bigger clubs can allow for different groups focusing on particular targets? You should definitely consider signing up though!

Marathon is still under consideration. But i spend a fair portion of today thinking about how to save a few seconds on my next mile effort!

druss

Thursday 27 June - Medium Long Run
Distance: 14.09 km
Time: 1:20:36
Avg Pace: 5:43 min/km

I had a game of football on Tuesday (woeful performance!) and then work stuff got in the way of my running plans on Wednesday.

So on Thursday I picked it back up again with a sort of long run completed on grass.

Friday 28 June - Speed Training

Same exercise as last week. 8 x 100m strides and 4 x 50 m sprints. I think overall, I was faster this week, but with one faster rep in the previous week.



Saturday 29 June - Out and Back
Distance: 10.00 km
Time: 48:28
Avg Pace: 4:51 min/km


The aim was just to do a fairly consistent sub-50 min 10k. Mission accomplished.

druss

Sunday 30 June - Long run
Distance: 23.00 km
Time: 2:10:04
Avg Pace: 5:39 min/km

Did this as an "out and back". 11.5 km out to Murntown and up the foothills of Forth Mountain. My "hills week" is the week after next, so this is all good practice. I was averaging 5:50 pace on the climb. The way back to town obviously had the potential to be considerably faster but no point in going crazy. This is my new record long run by a whole 1 km!

I've entered the Kilmore Quay 5k next week, which should be interesting. It's a 5 x 1k laps of the town, so plenty of opportunity to be lapped which has never happened to me in a race before.