Mother had to drive unconscious child and ambulanceman to hospital

davet82

http://www.donegaldaily.com/2012/11/27/answers-demanded-on-ambulance-cover-after-donegal-paramedic-debacle/

The question of why vital protocol surrounding paramedics was broken during an emergency call-out in Donegal is to be raised at the Regional Health Forum in Galway today.

It follows an incident in which a mother was forced to drive her unconscious son to hospital – after an ambulance had arrived at her home.

The ambulance man was forced to call to the scene of the emergency near Milford last Tuesday alone because of a lack of cover.

The nearest cover to help drive the ambulance was 45 minutes away.

It is also understood the paramedic also requested the assistance of two colleagues who lived nearby but was prohibited from doing so.

The paramedic was forced to attend to the unconscious child while the mother drove the car to Letterkenny General Hospital.

fair play to the woman keeping a cool head and managing to pull it together and get her child safely to the hospital!

anyways is this how we're saving money cutting back on essential cover in our health care?

seven_eleven

I think if most people were aware of how lacking the ambulance service is in this country is they would be outraged. More cuts to come too I bet.
I wouldn't be surprised if there was only 2 ambulances for the entire county of Galway.

Father Damo

davet82 wrote: »

anyways is this how we're saving money cutting back on essential cover in our health care?

Awful case, but this country was closing hospitals and making emergency service cut backs at the height of the boom years, never mind now.

SEPT 23 1989

The countryside seems to be a great place to live apart from when you get seriously ill

davet82

Father Damo wrote: »

Awful case, but this country was closing hospitals and making emergency service cut backs at the height of the boom years, never mind now.

maybe they've gone too far now?

seamus

One has to ask why the paramedic felt the need to take the call out on his own, surely this is a breach of protocol and quite reckless?

Would it have been quicker for the mother to drive the child to hospital to be looked at, rather than wait for an ambulance to arrive? Did he put the child in danger by responding to an emergency call that he was ill-equipped to deal with?

flutterflye

Oh god, fair play to the woman.
Would she not have called the guards or something though either to escort them or drive them?
That is appalling though.
Stupid country - severely lacking in health care and staffing.
I don't know why we all keep letting them cut essential funds from our health department.

Father Damo

flutterflye wrote: »

.
Would she not have called the guards or something though either to escort them or drive them?
.

Yes, even most small country towns have a volunteer fire brigade who I presume are well trained in first aid, couldnt they have been called?

davet82

flutterflye wrote: »

Would she not have called the guards or something though either to escort them or drive them?.

in donegal the a locals drive guards to seen of crimes so thats probably a non starter, if they did arrive it would probably be bicycle... i wish i was joking

cuana

Bloody tragic! My sister has often had to drive to meet ambulances with her daughter! The one time I've ever been sick I happened to be at my sisters house, no ambulance available, gp couldn't make a house call for me it was horrific, humiliating experience! Made it down to GP ambulance had just made available I eventually got the treatment I needed.

Makes me thing I should have sent a bill to the HSE for cleaning my car!!

HeyThereDeliah

There might be more to this story than what's reported, the ambulance driver could easily have requested Gardai to help him, he must have known the situation before he got there.
What was wrong with child?

Lapin

davet82 wrote: »

in donegal the a locals drive guards to seen of crimes so thats probably a non starter, if they did arrive it would probably be bicycle... i wish i was joking

Can you back this up with a reliable scource or some proof because otherwise I will continue to consider what you said to be a load of bollox.

squod

Yes for jobs, yes for stability, yes for children.

cuana

seamus wrote: »

One has to ask why the paramedic felt the need to take the call out on his own, surely this is a breach of protocol and quite reckless?

Would it have been quicker for the mother to drive the child to hospital to be looked at, rather than wait for an ambulance to arrive? Did he put the child in danger by responding to an emergency call that he was ill-equipped to deal with?

Well I rather one then none at all

HeyThereDeliah

cuana wrote: »

Bloody tragic! My sister has often had to drive to meet ambulances with her daughter! The one time I've ever been sick I happened to be at my sisters house, no ambulance available, gp couldn't make a house call for me it was horrific, humiliating experience! Made it down to GP ambulance had just made available I eventually got the treatment I needed.

Makes me thing I should have sent a bill to the HSE for cleaning my car!!

Ambulances are for emergencies but unfortunately in this country people call them when they are well able to get to the doctor/hospital themselves.
In your case could you not get to the hospital ?

davet82

seamus wrote: »

Would it have been quicker for the mother to drive the child to hospital to be looked at, rather than wait for an ambulance to arrive? with?

unconscious child and a state of panic, i think the safest for her, the child and other road users would be to let a professional drive imo

seamus

davet82 wrote: »

unconscious child and a state of panic, i think the safest for her, the child and other road users would be to let a professional drive imo

But she drove herself anyway.

davet82

Lapin wrote: »

Can you back this up with a reliable scource or some proof because otherwise I will continue to consider what you said to be a load of bollox.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/garda-driven-to-scene-of-burglary-by-victim-199600.html

A woman whose house had been burgled had to collect a garda from a local station because he did not have a patrol car.
The woman arrived to find her home in Co Donegal wrecked and a number of items missing. She contacted a garda at her local station in Newtowncunningham but was told he did not have any transport.

:rolleyes:

davet82

seamus wrote: »

But she drove herself anyway.

because she had to. jaysus seamus is that really the issue here? c'mon i think you're missing the point if you call an ambulance you expect it to arrive with two paramedics in it, fully equipted in a reasonable time frame.

Bobby42

seamus wrote: »

One has to ask why the paramedic felt the need to take the call out on his own, surely this is a breach of protocol and quite reckless?

Would it have been quicker for the mother to drive the child to hospital to be looked at, rather than wait for an ambulance to arrive? Did he put the child in danger by responding to an emergency call that he was ill-equipped to deal with?

Often paramedics respond on their own in rapid response cars or on motorbikes to emergencies on the presumption that they'll have backup on the way to them. The idea is that the paramedic or advanced paramedic can get there before the ambulance and provide emergency treatment while waiting for the ambulance to arrive and then transport to hospital.

This is well within international protocol.

The child may have needed emergency treatment at the scene. If she was transporting the child by herself and the child deteriated further there wouldn't anything she could have done.

Ambulance calls to emergencies have two categories, "stay and play" and "load and go".

Stay and play means the casualty needs emergency treatment from a paramedic there at the scene and they stay there until they've stabalised the casualty and are happy to transport.

Load an go means the casualty needs treatment that can't be done pre hospital and has to be transported there ASAP so they quickly get them on a stretcher and floor it.

This may well have been a stay and play situation that required a paramedic or advanced paramedic on scene.

The paramedic should have had an ambulance on the way to him/her while they were treating the child on scene.

Mr Simpson

I'm going to read between the lines here and suggest that he may be an advanced paramedic. They are single crewed and travel by car to the scene to provide care until an ambulance arrives or in addition to an ambulance. By the looks of it, he arrived at the scene, child was seriously ill and ambulance was 45 minutes away so he took the decision to do what he did.

HeyThereDeliah

davet82 wrote: »

because she had to. jaysus seamus is that really the issue here? c'mon i think you're missing the point if you call an ambulance you expect it to arrive with two paramedics in it, fully equipted in a reasonable time frame.

Maybe the best option would be for him to drive the ambulance once the child was stable, how far was the hospital ? How sick was the child?

seamus

davet82 wrote: »

because she had to. jaysus seamus is that really the issue here? c'mon i think you're missing the point if you call an ambulance you expect it to arrive with two paramedics in it, fully equipted in a reasonable time frame.

...exactly.
Not an ambulance with one paramedic on his own.

Yes, there is a wider issue here of cutbacks, and unfortunately for rural dwellers, reduced emergency services is part and parcel of choosing to live remotely. It would be great if there was a hospital next door to everyone and an ambulance service that arrived 30 seconds after it was called, but we have to live in the real world.

And in the real world sometimes an ambulance is unavailable.

This story wouldn't even exist if the mother had been told that an ambulance was 45 minutes away and she would be better driving to the hospital.

The cause of this specific case was not cutbacks or the government, but the paramedic who made a risky choice to attend an emergency call without backup. It could still have happened at the height of the boom.

MarkMc wrote:

I'm going to read between the lines here and suggest that he may be an advanced paramedic. They are single crewed and travel by car to the scene to provide care until an ambulance arrives or in addition to an ambulance. By the looks of it, he arrived at the scene, child was seriously ill and ambulance was 45 minutes away so he took the decision to do what he did.

In which case, I would retract any comments about the paramedic, but it would still be a bit of a non-story, since it was just a matter of an ambulance being unavailable. And that can happen at any time in any county.

davet82

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Maybe the best option would be for him to drive the ambulance once the child was stable, how far was the hospital ? How sick was the child?

I've no idea. Hopefully the mainstream media picks up on this story and we get some more details otherwise alot of it can only be speculated.

davet82

seamus wrote: »

The cause of this specific case was not cutbacks or the government, but the paramedic who made a risky choice to attend an emergency call without backup. It could still have happened at the height of the boom.

i heard the story on the radio in the car (two noisey kids in the back made it hard to follow) but from what was being said his partner was on sick leave and there were no funds/personel for cover I THINK (open to correction on this)

now i may have picked it up wrong


as for rural emergency cover, i had found out how bad it is there in another thread so i'm not going at from that angle

Caliden

seamus wrote: »

But she drove herself anyway.

And do you think the paramedic just sat in the backseat twiddling his thumbs?


And as for you saying the paramedic chose to attend the call on his own. What was he supposed to do?
Think about it, if you called an ambulance and the driver told you "can't come out, I'm on my own. Best of luck to you!" would you be saying the same story?

You need a bit of cop on mate because you're not exactly making any sense.

HeyThereDeliah

davet82 wrote: »

I've no idea. Hopefully the mainstream media picks up on this story and we get some more details otherwise alot of it can only be speculated.

It's another story for the media and some politicians to harp on about, it's life it happens no point in going on about it, it ain't going to change Any time soon.
Everyone knows the state the country is in and I think some people need to help themselves a little more instead of sitting back expecting everything for nothing.

I'm not just on about this incident but the general attitude in this country, I have seen people call ambulances for the most ridiculous reasons same with calling Gardai, doctors etc. they are there working for the public but a bit of cop on is needed sometimes.


The hospital was five minutes from the scene,not such a big deal after all.


http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=mother%20drove%20child%20ambilance&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CDAQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thejournal.ie%2Fmother-drives-child-hospital-paramedic-690691-Nov2012%2F&ei=_p20UKPpCJGRhQecs4DIDA&usg=AFQjCNEkOe7RYeEvjxaX1wBS-jte8iYsug

"The advanced paramedic was sent to the scene and the HSE said although an ambulance and gardaí were en route, “the clinical need of the patient took precedence and the advanced paramedic made a clinical decision to travel to hospital in the back of a car driven by the mother of the patient”.

seamus

Caliden wrote: »

And as for you saying the paramedic chose to attend the call on his own. What was he supposed to do?
Think about it, if you called an ambulance and the driver told you "can't come out, I'm on my own. Best of luck to you!" would you be saying the same story?

You need a bit of cop on mate because you're not exactly making any sense.

The story doesn't really make a lot of sense. When you ring an ambulance, you don't actually ring the ambulance driver. The ambulance is dispatched by the service. So if this ambulance wasn't in service (it wasn't manned), then why was it dispatched? Who informed the paramedic about the incident? Why, when told that his partner was not coming in, was he not sent home or assigned to another vehicle (you can have 3 paramedics in a vehicle)?

There's a lot of faux, "That's shockin" outrage at this story, but like I say it's actually not that big a story except that for some bizarre reason a paramedic took a 2-man ambulance out on his own and predictably got into difficulty.

Of course, now the actual story has come out, as Deliah has posted above, and it turns out that it's not a cutbacks story at all. It's just a story about there being no ambulance available to attend to an emergency. But there's no fun in that if you can't have a whinge about the economy.

brummytom

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Everyone knows the state the country is in and I think some people need to help themselves a little more instead of sitting back expecting everything for nothing.

Yeah, fúck 'em.
Why should anyone expect help for their unconscious child? Scrounging bastards.

HeyThereDeliah

brummytom wrote: »

Yeah, fúck 'em.
Why should anyone expect help for their unconscious child? Scrounging bastards.

"The hospital was a five minute drive from the scene and the clinical decision was made to attend the hospital immediately rather than await the arrival of the second ambulance."

By the time she phoned for an ambulance waited for it to arrive she would be in the hospital with the child, I know if it were me I would have gone straight to the hospital myself.

Caliden

seamus wrote: »

The story doesn't really make a lot of sense. When you ring an ambulance, you don't actually ring the ambulance driver. The ambulance is dispatched by the service. So if this ambulance wasn't in service (it wasn't manned), then why was it dispatched? Who informed the paramedic about the incident? Why, when told that his partner was not coming in, was he not sent home or assigned to another vehicle (you can have 3 paramedics in a vehicle)?

There's a lot of faux, "That's shockin" outrage at this story, but like I say it's actually not that big a story except that for some bizarre reason a paramedic took a 2-man ambulance out on his own and predictably got into difficulty.

Of course, now the actual story has come out, as Deliah has posted above, and it turns out that it's not a cutbacks story at all. It's just a story about there being no ambulance available to attend to an emergency. But there's no fun in that if you can't have a whinge about the economy.

I was joking with regards the imaginary conversation with an ambulance driver, I thought that was apparent...
Anyway, when the driver in question was on site he requested additional support which was denied.

Are you basing your understanding of the story from just the title and comments in here?

Mr Simpson

The HSE have confirmed that he was a single crewed advanced paramedic, and was the only one on duty between 5pm and 8pm. I cant link, but its on The Journal

seamus

Caliden wrote: »

Are you basing your understanding of the story from just the title and comments in here?

From reading one of the articles this morning.

This was initially reported as a story that the guy turned up for work and was told that his partner had called in sick, so he took the ambulance out anyway, and unable to both drive it and attend to the child, they had to bundle into the back of the mother's car.

Now it turns out that he was an advanced EMT, unaffected by anyone calling in sick. He attended an emergency call, decided the child needed more care and since the hospital was closer than the nearest ambulance, they decided to drive to the hospital rather than wait.

Non-story.

Mr Simpson

It is a non story. He felt the need to bring the child to hospital straight away, because it would take too long for an Ambulance or Gardai to arrive.

kunst nugget

cuana wrote: »

Makes me thing I should have sent a bill to the HSE for cleaning my car!!

I sent a bill to the HSE for Domestos for cleaning out the toilet after I had a dose of the sh¡ts. I never heard back from them. This country is going down the tubes…

cuana

HeyThereDeliah wrote: »

Ambulances are for emergencies but unfortunately in this country people call them when they are well able to get to the doctor/hospital themselves.
In your case could you not get to the hospital ?

It was the doctor who made the DECISION that I needed an ambulance when my family called her! and yes I needed urgent medical attention the hospital was 45 miles away!! That GP couldn't make it to me I was forced into an extremely horrific ordeal an order to seek the medical attention I needed. I was treated in the back of my own car by the GP while eventually moved into an ambulance. I was in surgery less then two hours later............. :mad::mad: so NO I would never ring a service if I didn't think it was an emergency though to be fair I wouldn't really have been equipped to make any decisions at the time


My sisters baby is alive today based what she was told she met those ambulances with an unconscious/barely breathing six week old baby IMO this is an emergency she did what she was told!

seven_eleven

There's so much speculation and ignorance in this thread about how ES are run and dispatched that it ridiculous.

seamus wrote: »

EMT

Advanced Paramedic*

cuana wrote: »

It was the doctor who made the DECISION that I needed an ambulance when my family called her!

People should really call the ambulance in the first place when they're extremely sick and in danger. A paramedic can do a lot more than any GP could ever do for you. I suppose likewise this should apply to people going to the Doctor first with a flu or upset stomach rather than clogging up the A&E